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View Full Version : SP 17 faster than beta 1


120
2006-07-21, 08:25 AM
Scrolling down large pages was a lot faster and smoother in SP 17 (599) than it is in beta 1! Beta 1 seems to be as "slow" as 5.1.3 is; SP 17 was faster than Safari on my old Mac (450 MHz PPC, 320 MB RAM; OS X 10.4.7).

PS: I don't like the unified toolbar look. (Elements of toolbars and elements of window control bars have very different functions and need to be clearly separated.)

rserkes
2006-07-21, 10:13 AM
I agree about the speed issue. I don't have any "lab test benchmarks" but casual observation and use of SP17 and beta1 leads me to the conclusion that something changed and now makes v5.5 beta a lot slower.

I hope this is rectified before the final release.

Handycam
2006-07-21, 10:20 AM
I don't know, beta 1 is like lightning here.

And I love the unified toolbar. It's likely this is the way most apps will look soon.

120
2006-07-22, 02:30 AM
I guess you need a slow Mac to experience the difference. When I use beta 1 on a MacBook Pro, I can't imagine scrolling could be faster or smoother.

JKT
2006-07-22, 04:28 AM
MacNN thread on jerky scrolling in Safari since 10.4.7 update (http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=300228). Perhaps it isn't OmniWeb?

rserkes
2006-07-22, 08:58 AM
Well, the speed is back. Beta 1 is performing as fast as SP17 did and I have a guess as to why. When updating browsers it's not uncommon for the update protocol to dump the cache of the earlier version. When you use the new version the cache has to be reestablished and until it is it'll seem as if the browser is slower. Once the cache is reestablished previously visited pages will load significantly faster.

I'm not privy to the inner workings of OmniWeb so I won't say this is what happened to me, but it's a possibility.

By the way, I have a fairly slow iMac G4 powered with a 800mhz chip and 512RAM. I've got my fingers crossed that Santa will come through for me this year with a new iMac.

120
2006-07-23, 01:04 AM
[JKT:] Jerky scrolling in Safari 2.0.4 seems to have nothing to do with this issue, "it only is a Safari-problem" (equinox on the MacNN thread you referred to).

[rserkes:] SP 17 was fast the first time I used it, and beta 1 is still slow after using it for a while. :(

Forrest
2006-07-24, 12:11 PM
[JKT:] Jerky scrolling in Safari 2.0.4 seems to have nothing to do with this issue, "it only is a Safari-problem" (equinox on the MacNN thread you referred to).


From that thread:
Because I experience the same thing in Shiira with 10.4.7

And "equinox" also said i think this is not only a safari problem. it seems, that it is a system wide problem since 10.4.7.

There's also no definitive answer in that thread.

philonous
2006-07-24, 10:09 PM
I got lots of other quirks with 10.4.7, but this ain't one of them.

What I did do a while back is I deleted my OW preferences and reverted to default values for fonts and turned off ColorSync.

I also dashed cocoagestures, and I turned off any plugins/input managers that had nothing to do with web browsing. (For example, the Chax collection of iChat enhancements showed up in OW plugins.)

Now everything is flying, and scrolling is now just sweet, even with my Logitech Bluetooth mouse.

P

120
2006-07-25, 12:44 AM
From that thread:
Because I experience the same thing in Shiira with 10.4.7

And "equinox" also said i think this is not only a safari problem. it seems, that it is a system wide problem since 10.4.7.

There's also no definitive answer in that thread.

[Forrest:] What you quote is a part of equinox' first post:



I got the same problem but only with the two-finger touchpad scrolling! the sidetrack scrolling seems ok! i think this is not only a safari problem. it seems, that it is a system wide problem since 10.4.7. is this problem somehow related to the problem with the 10.4.7 delta upate and the missing opengl files?
[Last edited by equinox: 06-30-2006 at 01:32 AM.]

You should have read also what he wrote two days later:



In Shiira everything seems normal. No problems. Do you have found a solution for this? i reinstalled the 10.4.7 combo-update but this did not solve anything. this bug(?) is really annoying and i wonder why all the others don't have this problem. Didn't they notice it or do they simply not have this problem?

If this really was a problem of 10.4.7, it couldn't be solved by using Safari 2.0.3 instead of 2.0.4, I guess. (Of course, if someone would run Safari 2.0.4 on 10.4.6 (if that's possible), we'd know for sure if it's a Safari issue or not.)
Anyway, I used SP 17 on 10.4.7, and I use beta 1 on 10.4.7; and beta 1 is as slow as 5.1.3 while SP 17 was a lot faster. But maybe that's a problem of my configuration. Or maybe you guys have too fast Macs to experience the difference.

Forrest
2006-07-25, 08:39 AM
I did read what he said later. I was mainly pointing out that there were comments each way, and no solid evidence being provided either way.

philonous
2006-07-25, 09:53 AM
[Forrest:]
Anyway, I used SP 17 on 10.4.7, and I use beta 1 on 10.4.7; and beta 1 is as slow as 5.1.3 while SP 17 was a lot faster. But maybe that's a problem of my configuration. Or maybe you guys have too fast Macs to experience the difference.

Forrest, is your processor any slower than the one I have listed in my sig?

P

Forrest
2006-07-25, 10:23 AM
it's not .

philonous
2006-07-25, 05:34 PM
it's not .


Well, I hope it's not a psychological effect, but after reading this thread, I am noticing a drop in speed with beta 1. Hmmmm....

Well, it's not as slow as 5.1.3, I think. I was just testing side by side with Firefox, and OW was slightly slower with pages like the New York Times and the BBC.

Then I started testing against Safari, and, at least with the BBC pages, Safari absolutely blows OW away in rendering speed.

P

Forrest
2006-07-25, 05:47 PM
IMHO, the issue that javascript can start up timed events and they never stop if you close the window (http://forums.omnigroup.com/showpost.php?p=4909&postcount=10) may play a large part in these slowdowns. I've been having similar issues through all the SPs and I was slowly able to determine that the culprit was specific pages.

And that can be extremely tricky to diagnose. People can say "I was surfing a forum I always surf so it's an issue with this SP" when really they clicked on a link, even if closing a window five seconds later, and two hours after that the symptoms start becoming apparent.

Throw in auto-saving workspaces to the mix and you've got an issue that will repeat itself even after the browser is restarted. Somewhere, in some tab there's a site that's causing an issue. But now it seems it's just this SP's problem.

That's why I started in with asking how someone was able to know it wasn't a WebKit issue. The data cited was completely subjective.

And I don't mean to pick on anyone. I know I've done and continue to form bad logic based around my lack of understanding on how OW is built. I don't write programs, but I do write applications. What serves the best here, is to provide specific details around the problem rather than subjective interpretations on what's going on.

philonous
2006-07-25, 08:02 PM
Not everyone will have your intuition. It's nice to have the intended audience test the product, but, I suppose, there are drawbacks if the intended audience are not computer experts.

P

120
2006-07-26, 02:15 PM
It would be great if I could use SP 17 again; then I could capture the speed difference in a movie, and you would be able to see what I'm talking about.

By the way (this is really off topic, sorry): Do you know if there's a possibility to download iCal 2 somewhere? I've deleted it by mistake.

philonous
2006-07-28, 12:45 PM
It would be great if I could use SP 17 again; then I could capture the speed difference in a movie, and you would be able to see what I'm talking about.

By the way (this is really off topic, sorry): Do you know if there's a possibility to download iCal 2 somewhere? I've deleted it by mistake.

You can try this: go to /Library/Receipts and delete all receipts for iCal. Then, run Software Update.

P

120
2006-08-17, 09:48 AM
Beta 3 brought back the scrolling speed of SP 17! It's great!