I wish I knew how to quit you, OmniWeb

[SSteve]

I tried Safari 4 for a couple minutes, but even though it hasn't been actively developed in many a moon OmniWeb is still way ahead. The things I can't give up:


Ad blocking: (Ok, I could duplicate that with Privoxy so it isn't a deal-breaker.)
Shortcuts.
Superior RSS reader.
Site preferences w/browser spoofing.


Without these any other browser seems crippled. Safari 4 may process JavaScript four times faster than OW (according to SunSpider on my machine) but that doesn't make up for what it lacks.

[Handycam]

Ad blocking: (Ok, I could duplicate that with Privoxy so it isn't a deal-breaker.)
Shortcuts.

You can get both of these with GlimmerBlocker, much easier to use than Privoxy. Also Glims offers shortcuts.

Superior RSS reader.

I use Google Reader for all my RSS, and Safari 4 supports it

Site preferences w/browser spoofing.

You only need this in OW in the first place; most other browsers work on every site without any spoofing needed. If you need this for development, use firefox and a developer extension.

I am using Safari 4 and I love it, when coupled with GlimmerBlocker and Glims. I had been using WebKit nightlies before Safari 4 came out, and they are excellent as well. Superior tab handling, speed, compatibility, and a vastly improved web inspector.

[JKT]

You can get both of these with GlimmerBlocker, much easier to use than Privoxy. Also Glims offers shortcuts.
....and Glims, along with Growl, also caused problems for anyone who installed Safari 4 beta because it was incompatible. Sorry, but if you are going to use Safari, then you need to either be prepared to face headaches every single time it is updated, caused by all the hacks you have to use to make it more functional, or you don't use the hacks at all and suffer a limited and limiting browser experience. That is not my idea of a good time and I would rather use Firefox, in spite of all its drawbacks, or Opera if I had to switch away from OmniWeb.

[Handycam]

Actually, all I was using when Safari 4 came out was GlimmerBlocker. And of course it worked fine. I only added Glims when I noticed it came out yesterday, and so far I am happy with it. But I could live without it.

In fact, I just uninstalled it and went back to safaristand, which also works fine with 4.0.

Any plugins, including Firefox ones, are likely to break with an update. So if you're smart, disable Safari input managers before updating. I did, and it went without a hitch. Also, it might be worth noting I was using nightlies of WebKit for 6 months, and never did SafariStand fail me.

[Handycam]

....and Glims, along with Growl, also caused problems for anyone who installed Safari 4 beta because it was incompatible.

I can see Glims, but Growl? Not quite. Never affected me. Also note a lot of people have done a lot of crap to their systems and then start whining when some new software breaks their unsupported mods. If you absolutely need to have add-ons, whether for Safari, Firefox, or even Photoshop, keep that in mind when updating stuff.

These addons are nice, but I like Safari 4 just fine, thanks. OW is old and outdated. I have lost nothing by leaving, I feel I have the same -- or better -- experience now. Sorry to say, since I really loved OW.

[JKT]

Growl was causing Mail to crash if you installed Safari 4 beta (http://www.macfixit.com/article.php?story=20090225001025963) and this is the problem with all these hacks, especially the input managers (not Growl though, I know)... they bugger up other apps.

Btw, it is because you have to disable all these hacks to be on the safe side every time Safari is updated that makes them very unappealing to use and it is why I would go with Firefox or Opera if I had to - Firefox is sensible enough to disable any incompatible extensions for you and Opera's features are built-in. No dicking about in the OS with hacks that can cause problems in more than just Safari.

[Handycam]

Turned out it was GrowlMail, IIRC, not Growl itself. I have Growl running and had no problems.

And I have been conservative with "hacks" and have had no problems with any webkit nightlies, and I have updated immediately to every last one, for months now. As it turned out, my one hack had no problems with 4 either, I was just being cautious.

I do not like the look of FF. I prefer WebKit, either Safari or OW. I like native form controls and IMO the text looks better. I used to use OW for this very reason (to get WebKit with added features without hacks) but the age of its WebKit and speed (and that damn tab drawer) has pushed me to use Safari and the occasional "hack".

[MinutiaeMan]

I can't think of a more appropriate title. Omni's announcement couldn't have come at a worse time (that is, the same day that Safari 4.0b came out).

It's a testament to the number of features that OmniWeb offers that version 5 has lasted as long as it has. I started using it with the second beta of 5.0, and spent almost the entire time since then with it as my default browser. That's five whole years!

Over the past year or two, I've toyed with switching to Safari (which I use at work, and so keep up to date with). And there are a couple things that really tempt me; especially bookmark syncing via MobileMe. (That feature has never worked for me in OW, ever.)

When Safari 4 came out, I decided to switch over for a day or two and see what I thought, expecting that I'd end up back in OmniWeb soon enough — just like every time I'd tried the same thing before. But then came the announcement that OW isn't being developed. I felt like I'd been punched in the gut.

I know it's not a cancellation. But considering how fast WebKit is being developed, considering how some new features are being added by various browsers (mostly Safari and Firefox; even if they're not all the features I want) — I don't think I can afford to wait forever for OmniWeb to rejoin the browser wars.

So I tallied up a list of features that I still love about OmniWeb:

• The browser drawer (I try not to call it "tabbed browsing")
• Site-specific preferences
• Useful ad blocking, especially combined with site-specific CSS
• Keyword shortcuts in the location bar
• Custom searches

I've spent the last four or five days using Safari 4 exclusively. I've been keeping an eye out for how many times it annoys me with stuff that's missing or different from OmniWeb. And I realized that I don't miss the features as much as I thought I would. Sure, I curse when I type "wiki iPod" and don't get taken directly to the Wikipedia entry on the iPod. But I think I can get used to it. Because at least Safari is in active development.

(Plus, I kinda dig the new "top sites" view, and the full-search history is killer. The tabs I understand, but they'll take getting used to.)

If and when OmniWeb 6 comes around, I'll jump on it faster than you can blink. But until then, I think I'll stick with Safari.

[Ken Case]

You might want to check out the 5.9.1 sneaky peek builds! We've already fixed some long-standing bugs (like the Amazon rating bug) and added new features (like swipe support on recent laptops to navigate through history and tabs).

We're also working on integrating the most recent version of WebKit.

[hardcoreUFO]

Superior RSS reader.




Really?? I think OW's RSS handling is terrible. Its very awkward to manage feeds, there are no previews, and a few nagging bugs that Omni is yet to fix. For example, dragging feeds to the collections sidebar (which would be an excellent place to manage them) causes the feed to be renamed "News Feed", with no way of renaming it. Perplexingly, this bug has lingered around for ages with no fix.

[Handycam]

• The browser drawer (I try not to call it "tabbed browsing")

I would love to see this go away, become a pane, or a preference for different ways

• Site-specific preferences

While it's true that OW's site preferences are well-implemented, it still need some things you can actually get in SafariStand namely ability to disable plugins per site

• Useful ad blocking, especially combined with site-specific CSS

I am currently enjoying the implementation of Glimmer Blocker. It is a prixy, so it works with OW too

• Keyword shortcuts in the location bar
• Custom searches

You can get both of these in Safari in several ways: Glimmer Blocker, Glims, SafariStand to name 3. And it is built into Firefox.

[MinutiaeMan]

IYou can get both of these in Safari in several ways: Glimmer Blocker, Glims, SafariStand to name 3. And it is built into Firefox.
As several other people have pointed out, SafariStand and co. are hacks. I won't accept those. And Firefox on the Mac is the GUI equivalent of wearing one of those tuxedo-print t-shirts to a wedding. (That is, it's incredibly ugly and doesn't fit in at all.)

That being said, I do have the ClickToFlash (http://github.com/rentzsch/clicktoflash/tree/master)plugin installed, in part because it's a legitimate plugin using the established, official architecture. I do find that incredibly useful.

[rabidkoala]

OmniWeb is now my favorite browser. I initially scoffed at the idea of a tab drawer, but it makes perfect sense on a widescreen display where no browser real estate is sacrificed. Contrast this with browsers like Safari, where you've got the tab bar, status bar, and favorites bar. So much vertical real estate is lost. It's about time someone designed a browser that took advantage of a widescreen display and didn't require hacks to make it functional.

The more plug-ins you add to Safari 4, the slower it gets.

[Handycam]

Contrast this with browsers like Safari, where you've got the tab bar, status bar, and favorites bar. So much vertical real estate is lost.

Not any more. In Safari 4 the tabs are at the top, in the title bar. And I never show the status bar or favorites bar. I get your point about their being more horizontal space, but OW takes up more horizontal space than even Safari 3 does vertical space, even with all the bars on. I size my window so I can click on desktop items or watch other apps in the background. The tab drawer hogs the screen for OW, plus it doesn't close when you are down to one tab which is worse.

The more plug-ins you add to Safari 4, the slower it gets

Based on what, exactly? Data? I haven't seen any, and in my used this is not so. I use Glims, SafariSource, and SafariTidy and it's still faster than 5.9.

[zottel]

Same for me, here: I loved OmniWeb and used it for many years as my standard browser, but over the last year I became more and more frustrated and began looking for a replacement.

The most important features for me are:
• Good, user definable handling of cookies, site-specific preferences.
• User definable ad blocking, including complete blocking of flash.
• Workspaces.
• Vertical tabs. The thumbnails are not important for me, but I often work with 20+ tabs, which makes horizontal tabs unbearable.

I think I have found my OmniWeb replacement now: iCab. The handling of cookies and plugins is even better than with OmniWeb (e.g. session cookies can be seperately activated, plugins can be deactivated for certain pages), filters are ex- and importable, and the iCab homepage features a default adblocking filter for download. The filter manager is a bit tricky to understand at first, and OW's site-specific prefs are a lot easier to handle, but it works and does so well.

Sadly missing:
• Easy workpaces switching. If you enable the session functions in the prefs, you can save a session which is just the same as an OW workspace. You have to chose a file to switch to another session, though, which makes the usage experience really different from what OW gives you.
• Vertical tabs. Hmpf.

I have proposed both functions in a mail to the author. Let's see what he thinks of it.

Best regards,

Christian

P.S.: I didn't add a link as this post may be already quite inappropriate in an Omni forum. Help yourself and use Google. ;-)

[Ken Case]

The tab drawer hogs the screen for OW, plus it doesn't close when you are down to one tab which is worse.

You can resize the tab drawer to be more narrow if you want it to use less space.

And today's sneaky peek builds of OmniWeb 5.9.1 automatically close the tab drawer when you return to a single tab.

[Ken Case]

Same for me, here: I loved OmniWeb and used it for many years as my standard browser, but over the last year I became more and more frustrated and began looking for a replacement.

What's been making you more and more frustrated?

[Handycam]

And today's sneaky peek builds of OmniWeb 5.9.1 automatically close the tab drawer when you return to a single tab.

Thanks! At long last!

[Handycam]

I also have to say, the BEST thing about OW to me is the site preferences. I'd love to see that expanded to more things about a site, especially blocking Flash (or all plug-in content) as a check-box item in that dialog.

So either users could globally block flash and allow it for sites they care about, or the other way around.

I have been using Click2Flash as a Safari plugin, and surfing is so much more pleasant and speedy since I only watch the Flash content I really want to.

And I am a Flash developer by trade....

[Handycam]

I have been using Click2Flash as a Safari plugin, and surfing is so much more pleasant and speedy since I only watch the Flash content I really want to.

And this plugin works great in OW, too! Awesome.

[Ken Case]

I've been blocking flash (with click-to-activate) in OmniWeb for years: I long ago added "\.swf" to my blocked URLs list.

[jwthomas]

The tab drawer hogs the screen for OW, plus it doesn't close when you are down to one tab which is worse.

In my current download of OW 5.9.1 SP the tab drawer automatically closes and the screen expands to full size when down to one tab. BTW, the width of the tab drawer, and consequently the size of the tabs, is adjustable by dragging it.

[Brian]

The tab drawer hogs the screen for OW, plus it doesn't close when you are down to one tab which is worse.

I actually submitted feedback asking for the ability to disable the auto-closing; it steals my "right-click, select 'make new tab' from context menu" target just when I'm most likely to want it. :-)

[Handycam]

I actually submitted feedback asking for the ability to disable the auto-closing; it steals my "right-click, select 'make new tab' from context menu" target just when I'm most likely to want it. :-)

No way! They had better leave the auto-close. Or ultimately make it a preference.

You want a new tab via right-click? Open the drawer manually. Or do command-T. Middle click on a link. Right click a link and open in new tab.

There are many ways to get a new tab. But the old way OW was the only browser that forced up to keep its version of a "Tab bar" visible always -- and it's an enormous tab bar too.

[Ken Case]

I actually submitted feedback asking for the ability to disable the auto-closing; it steals my "right-click, select 'make new tab' from context menu" target just when I'm most likely to want it. :-)

If you manually open the drawer, it won't auto-close. (The "manually opened" setting is currently preserved in persistent workspaces; it might also be nice to remember as a default setting for new windows.)

[jtgarrett]

Ken & other Omnifolk,

I'm delighted that you're giving some love & attention to OmniWeb lately, and the addition of the latest WebKit will be wonderful.

I did see Ken make mention of "OmniWeb 6," and may I please put in a plug for a couple of features, including one that is on my list of must-haves for a browser: returning the focus to my last selected tab when I close the current tab, rather than the tab next to it in the list. If my previous tab is way up in the list in the tab drawer, scrolling back and hunting it down can take up time and be distracting.

And speaking of the tab drawer... In order to keep OmniWeb looking fresh, and in keeping with modern OS X user paradigms, it would be great to see the drawer replaced with a pane, similar to the one at the left side of the OmniFocus window, iTunes, Path Finder, etc.

Again, thanks so much for the work you folks are doing!

[Ward]

Like others, I was concerned to see OmniWeb go free. The $$$ I spent on a Family Pack is the best investment I've made in any software, ever! The fear that OmniWeb would grow cobwebs has been quelled by the recent sneaky peeks, especially 5.9.2.

I can't imagine using any browser without ...
Workspaces (!!!!!)
site-specific preferences (for font size and ad blocking, not just spoofing)
customizable search shortcuts
resizable, rearrangeable tab drawer (now with auto-hide)
active developer participation in the user forums


And I don't buy the argument that Safari and Firefox can be just as good if you install an Xyzzy plug-in and stand on your head and spit marbles. OmniWeb, right out of the (virtual) box, just rocks!

-- Ward

[bmastenbrook]

I've been blocking flash (with click-to-activate) in OmniWeb for years: I long ago added "\.swf" to my blocked URLs list.

For some reason I never thought to do this. It really does speed up the browsing experience, but unfortunately it doesn't catch everything. Some Flash embeds don't end in .swf on the server side. It would be nice if it was possible to explicitly block Flash until a click on the applet's area in a way that worked with all Flash applets. Of course I don't know anything about how hard it would be to implement this :-) but it would make my day!

[JKT]

The problem with Ken's solution (which I have also being using for several years) is that it doesn't permit you to block image ads but still have Flash active at a site. You have to block both or none.

Therefore, the ability to block Flash (and other plug-ins if possible) separately from images would be highly beneficial. An OmniWeb 6.0 feature I hope.