View Full Version : Secondary Y-Axis
2009-07-27, 02:38 AM
When trying to display two sets of numbers, one with small numbers, and one with big numbers, I needed a secondary Y-Axis to be able to make the small numbers show up.
Anyone else in for this request? Or other solutions?
2009-07-29, 11:02 AM
was just thinking this myself. it'd be very helpful to have a secondary y axis.
2009-08-20, 11:45 AM
I need that function too.
2009-10-01, 07:32 AM
I asked for this and was told it was added to the "vote" for that feature.
2009-12-05, 03:10 PM
I am a new user, but OmniGraphSketcher is amazing. I can't tell you how many times I've had to make "real" graphs to just sketch a concept.
A secondary axis is the only thing I can see missing. Thanks!
2010-01-22, 04:11 AM
I add my vote on this.
Have a good day.
2010-01-22, 05:57 AM
I added a poll to this thread, so if you want/like secondary Y-Axis, add your vote to the poll at the top of this post!
2010-01-22, 06:43 AM
Just a reminder -- the only votes that count are the ones made by using Help->Send Feedback or email to firstname.lastname@example.org...
2010-01-25, 10:04 AM
I'd like to echo Bill's reminder that if you really care about this feature it's important to email OmniGraphSketcher@omnigroup.com (mailto:OmniGraphSketcher@omnigroup.com) or Help > Send Feedback within the application and tell us about why you need it!
Also, Robin posted some further discussion about dual Y-axes and best practices in a blog post (http://blog.omnigroup.com/2010/01/25/dueling-y-axes/) today. We'd love to hear your feedback on that article as well.
2010-01-28, 05:50 PM
While I agree its best to avoid overlain axes like this, it is sometimes useful and standard in various scientific fields. Plots like the second one in http://dusk.geo.orst.edu/gis/student_bibs/wingard.html are so common in my field that you would be looked at askance if you didn't produce this. Sure, you could use seven panels instead of 2, but if you wanted to get it on one page and be able to line things up in the vertical, you'd have to sacrifice the resolution of the wiggles. For this data, a little bit of confusion and complexity is well worth it to be able to see the fine and important detail that smaller plots would obscure.
Note the authors here aren't trying to imply correlation. Its raw data. They are using these plots to search for correlations and patterns. When you are doing that it is very useful to overlay plots. In the old days, folks used to do this with light tables. Maybe OmniGraph is only meant for publishable results, but there are other uses for plotting software than plotting final results.
In all, the article comes off as pretty prescriptive, and frankly it seems that whoever wrote it has never analyzed data seriously. You can say that you don't want to program double y axes, or that it isn't technically possible, but I'd sure stop far shorter than you do of claiming folks aren't using overlain axes properly. There is a reason you get a lot of request for this, and its not that your users are bad at analyzing data.
2010-02-08, 12:42 PM
Thanks for the feedback, "jklymak" -- the purpose of the article was indeed to be tentatively prescriptive, in the hopes that customers like you would point out if we missed anything.
You have a great point that overlaying data series like this can be useful for searching for patterns in multiple data series (what the HCI academics might call "exploratory data analysis"). OmniGraphSketcher does hope to support that type of use, so we will surely keep it in mind. Perhaps the future interface for multiple graphs should be more like a light table, rather than just a "dual y-axes" configuration. That would provide a lot more flexibility for data analysis, and you could just snap the x-axes to an overlaid position in order to get the dual y-axes effect.
2010-02-08, 11:17 PM
Thanks for the article, it is nice to have some pros and cons together.
I agree that secondary axis can be confusing, dueling for attention, but I don't agree that that is a reason not to implement it. All graphs can be confusing, and it depends on the designer/drawer and the person reading the graph if it is confusing. I can make single-axis graphs that are confusing and dual-axis graphs that are not confusing.
An example where I needed the secondary axis is mortgage payments: it can show the amount paid per year (interest) and the amount due at the end of each year. The interest is a much smaller amount than the amount due.
Yes, you can show this in two graphs, underneath each other, or you can show it in one graph, if you think this is clearer.
There is another reason to want secondary axis: over here mortgage payments are usually displayed that way, so if people are used to view data on a certain subject that way, it helps if you can present it the way they expect. It feels kinda stupid to use a 'duelling' presentation just because people are used to it and expect it, but sometimes there is just no room to be stubborn and present an alternative.
2010-03-21, 03:06 AM
I really need the secondary Y axis for overlapping horsepower and torque diagrams. I work for a automobile manufacturer, and I need the ability to show both the horsepower and torque curves on one graph, since together they describe an engine's performance. Having one graph for horsepower and one for torque would be pointless.
2010-05-08, 10:08 AM
Numbers finally has it and that has made a big difference for my presentation preparation. Now that I've purchased omnigraphsketcher, I'm really missing the feature. It would make this application much more useful to me!
2010-06-06, 07:38 PM
I could definitely use a secondary y axis in some of the graphs that I need to create at work.
One more vote for two- and four-axis graphs.
Thank you for putting a paper together on this topic. I agree with the attractiveness of small multiples and of the frequent confusion of two- and four-axes graphs, but I also share other commenters' views that your paper is prescriptive.
The Economist magazine uses two vertical axes graphs with great precision, clarity, and compactness. Their trick is to use a common grid line and color the axes labels with the color of the data represented on them (see, e.g., 8/28/10, p. 61). Oh, that OmniGraphSketcher could do that! The eye spends no time learning the lay of the land.
Could a small multiple do as well in the same space? I'm not so sure. You'd introduce another horizontal axis (reducing your data-ink ratio), or introduce a single-axis interpretation issue (say if you "stacked" the data in two regions on the single y-axis), or introduce a competing scales issue (e.g., even stock prices in dollars and volumes in millions may have vastly divergent dynamic ranges).
Are correlation plots a perfect substitute? I agree with the paper that sometimes they are the preferred option because correlation is the analytical issue at stake. However, they mask time, and that may be a high-stakes variable. Exploration may require being able to observe, "These series diverge in the late 1990s and converge in the early 2000's."
Will users aesthetically abuse the second-axis capability if it exists? No doubt. But that's their responsibility not yours, especially if you built in a default to color the axis labels by the data series color and plot on a common grid.
By the way, kudos to your development team! OGS is a DREAM to work with. It's got just the right mix of tweak-ability and speed and it's got very creative features I've wanted for decades (like shading under a curve). OGS reinforces my decision to switch to Mac every time I use it. It Just Works.
Now, when will you jump into the GIS space?
2011-11-02, 04:33 PM
I really need this feature for my ipad's OmniGraph Sketch. in fact, such advanced features are the VERY REASON I spent $15 on the app, far more than on almost any other app I've purchase.
2012-01-15, 05:29 AM
I would make use of a secondary y-axis also.
2012-10-15, 11:54 PM
After not doing much graphing for a while, I need to make a graph today. The first thing I needed was convert a small table with numbers into a graph, which worked like a charm. The second thing I needed was a secondary Y-axis. Not because of bad design, but because of customs in the field.
Is there any progress on this, or should I just stop banging my head to try to do this with my favorite tools, and go back to Numbers to do this kind of graphing?
vBulletin® v3.8.7, Copyright ©2000-2013, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.