DropBox support? [A: Document sync is coming, but not based on Dropbox or iCloud.] [Archive]

sw001

2010-04-02, 12:17 PM

Hi -

First, I'll say that I love the desktop version of Omnigraffle. I use it at work a fair amount, and have had great success with it. Because of this, I have a lot of diagrams. Is Omnigraffle on the iPad fully compatible with the desktop version? How will things such as multiple canvases work on the iPad, and are there any diagram size limits on the iPad?

The other question, is any way the iPad version of Omnigraffle can work with Dropbox? I know there is a future DropBox iPad app coming. I can imagine using DropBox to open my Omnigraffle documents both on my Macbook and on the iPad. Then the user experience would be incredible. I'd be able to edit documents from the couch, and at work, and never worry about emailing, etc.

Thanks.

Joel

2010-04-02, 12:35 PM

Multiple canvases are indeed a feature of OmniGraffle for iPad, and while there is still work to be done for future versions (things like Image manipulation and Notes and Actions, etc.) the round trip from desktop to iPad and back should be non-destructive to existing documents, with one caveat, which is being able to edit Rich Text for different strings of text in a shape's label -- Currently on OmniGraffle for iPad, editing the style of text does so for all the text in a shape's label.

That said, we don't know for sure what size limits will come into play on the iPad itself, both physical dimensions or filesize, and when we run into problems we'll see about getting them fixed as best we can, but we more or less have to wait until tomorrow.

Finally, as for DropBox compatibility, it remains to be seen, however we can count on being able to handle OmniGraffle documents via email as well as downloads from Safari on the iPad (so long as they have the proper file extension when zipped), so I'd take an educated guess that if DropBox hands off a .graffle or .gstencil or .gtemplate, the iPad OS will properly ask if you want to open it in OmniGraffle, and copy the file to OmniGraffle's documents directory.

Hope the above clears some things up.

sw001

2010-04-02, 01:07 PM

Thanks for the answer!

Even with drop box opening omnigraffle, we'd still need to email out of Omnigraffle to get the document back to the desktop then? (I am not sure how documents move from one application to another).

Any plans for a 1 document, or similar, trial version? At the premium price, it'd be nice to take the app out for a spin, like we can with the desktop version. I don't mind the price point, but its tough to commit without trying first.

Joel

2010-04-02, 01:13 PM

You can email documents from OmniGraffle for iPad, and as I understand when the iPad is plugged in to your desktop iTunes has a "Documents" area for transferring files.

As for trial versions go, I'll quote Brian from another thread:

"We are huge fans of "try before you buy". OmniFocus for iPhone is currently installed on Apple Store demo units; we'd like to do the same with these apps if Apple is interested."

ids

2010-06-02, 12:18 AM

Hi Joel, I'd like to add my voice to the "please support dropbox" chorus, if we can describe it as that. E-mail cannot really be said to have been designed to be a file transfer solution :)

Moving files around seems to be a key iPad weakness, and allowing loading and saving from Dropbox is an incredibly elegant and transparent way to work around it. As I'm sure you know, as soon as you put a file on Dropbox it magically becomes available on all your Macs (and iPads etc.)

As Dropbox supports free usage, providing 2Gb of storage to non-paying users, it would be accessible to all your customers.

Hopefully Apple will get their act together and do cloud storage properly (that data centre must be for *something*), but in the mean time, Dropbox rocks!

Cheers,

Ian

marcussommer@mac.com

2010-06-02, 12:34 AM

bolesjb

2010-06-10, 09:10 AM

Amen to the dropbox requests. If you haven't looked at how Dataviz has integrated it, I suggest you grab Documents To Go Premium for $15. It's pretty easy to code the dropbox upload/download - all HTTP RESTful. Use the local file sandbox, then allow a user to selectively download and resync, on command. Easy peasy, and killer functionality. I don't plan on ever making use of iTunes desktop. The other possibilities are better, if an app doesn't make use of them, then it's way down my list. :)

gspencer

2010-06-26, 01:27 AM

Another vote for DropBox. I love OG on the iPad, but without cloud support, moving files around is super clunky. I really like the way QuickOffice and others have integrated DropBox support, and I hope Omni takes a similar approach.

rickb

2010-06-30, 01:41 PM

Another vote for Dropbox here as well :)

mitchellm

2010-07-18, 06:53 PM

Ditto here. There's no great way to go from OG to OG for the iPad. The iTunes approach isn't always practical—especially if you have more than 1 computer, and the iPad is synced to only one of them. And, of course, it's just clunkier.

Working with DropBox so their service does recognize .graffle extensions would be a very elegant solution.

Brian

2010-07-19, 03:06 PM

Reminder: folks that want to vote for a feature should send email to the support ninjas (omnigraffle@omnigroup.com).

We browse the forums as we're able, but we can't guarantee that we'll see every post. If you want to be sure that your requests get filed appropriately, send 'em to our dedicated email support staff. Thanks!

GTD

2010-07-27, 07:05 AM

Another +1 here, with the accompanying email to the support ninjas, too.

slh

2010-09-24, 01:36 AM

+1 as well as WebDAV support for sync.
This works very nice in Omnifocus on my phone so please port this to Omnigraffle for the iPad.

johntoups

2010-10-13, 09:36 AM

Yes, please please please add Dropbox support. I use two iMacs and a Macbook, and the iTunes file sync process is cumbersome, at best. Dropbox solves this for me.

tomthebuzz

2011-02-07, 08:28 AM

Please add me to the list as well - DropBox is by far the best and most widely supported CloudStorage provider. Please support the guys delivering as good a product as you are...

Also that is almost a decision maker for me buying the desktop version as a companion product....

gohnjanotis

2011-04-04, 06:28 AM

I'm emailing this to the support ninjas as well, but I wanted to make sure I voice my opinion here. Let me describe what would be ideal for me:

I'd really like to be able to have one instance of an OmniGraffle document saved to my Dropbox that I can open either on my Mac and iPad.

When I open it on my Mac, make changes, and save, it would work the normal way (Dropbox is already where I keep most of my OG documents).

On the iPad, I would be able to browse my Dropbox within the OmniGraffle app, open a file, and as I make changes to the file, they would be saved to that same instance on the Dropbox (kind of like how if i'm editing on the iPad and leave the app it's all saved... you never have to save changes, but all these changes would go to the Dropbox).

Also, it would be perfect if once a file were "opened" from Dropbox the entire file was cached so I could make changes without an internet connection that would be updated on Dropbox once a connection is available. Bonus UX points would be if any of these "live" Dropbox OG files would show up in the regular OG for iPad "Diagrams" file browser screen with a special blue border or something to indicate they are stored locally but updated on Dropbox as they are edited.

I've noticed you guys are kickass at maintaining data integrity when keeping multiple data sources in sync (I'm a hardcore OmniFocus user across 4 devices) so hopefully you can pull this off if there's enough demand!!

I hope this isn't too uncommon a use case to consider for development. With the current way the OG apps are designed, I generally have a copy of a file saved on the iPad, I make changes, then I export to iDisk. I have to rename the file and delete the old one usually because the files I work with are sometimes huge and the Replace feature doesn't work. This gets very tedious as sometimes I can't remember if I "exported" the document on an iPad when I want to open it on my Mac and make some quick changes.

BTW keep up the AMAZING work with all the Omni apps!!!!!!!

stax

2011-04-22, 07:38 AM

Hi
I was wondering if the use of DropDAV to connect to Dropbox through the webdav server connection was possible with OmniGraffle for iPad?

DropDAV allows me to connect to Dropbox with Pages, Numbers and Keynote but with OmniGraffle I just get the trying to connect message.

Can Omnigraffle use DropDAV in the same way as iWork apps?

whpalmer4

2011-04-22, 08:05 AM

It seems there's a bit of an interoperability problem in there somewhere. It should work, but it doesn't (at least not for me). None of the Omni iPad apps seem to be able to connect via DropDAV, and neither can the Mac OS X 10.6.6 Finder. They do successfully connect to Omni's Sync Server, which is a standard WebDAV server. However, Pages on the iPad connects without difficulty to both DropDAV *and* the Omni Sync Server using the same credentials that fail from OmniGraffle. I've reported this problem at least once, but the more problem reports, the better, as far as getting it fixed. Use the Contact Omni menu entry under the Omni button menu to make a report that will get logged (a forum post won't).

stax

2011-04-22, 12:48 PM

Hi whpalmer4
Just had a reply from the support ninjas. Apparently it might be an issue with DropDAV. They are investigating.

Brian

2011-04-22, 02:34 PM

Sorry for the trouble this is causing! We've identified a couple of places where DropDAV sends back malformed responses to WebDAV requests. We don't handle those invalid responses as gracefully as we should, which is what causes the login process to stall. Both parties have some bugs to fix, in other words.

My guess is the iWork for iPad team encountered a problem like this before and have workarounds in place; we need to add something similar to our own code.

enrvuk

2011-05-28, 06:48 PM

+1 for dropbox

santra

2012-01-12, 06:32 PM

What is going on, Omni? This thread is almost TWO YEARS old, and we STILL don't have Dropbox support?

Penultimate, a far less substantial program with half the features of OmniGraffle, design nowhere near as sophisticated, made by a much smaller company without the stellar rep of OmniGroup has Dropbox AND Evernote linking.

I just don't understand how/why you have made OmniGraffle so rich and sophisticated an app and CRIPPLED it with a lack of file transfer connectivity options.

I can only thank my lucky stars that OmniFocus has cloud sync that works like a dream across all my devices.

But when, oh when, are you going to update the incredibly primitive file handling of OmniGraffle? It's as bad or worse than the terrible Pages and Numbers (lack of) syncing.

It's always a puzzle to me how/why a company races ahead on certain features and ignores or forgets others.

THE WHOLE PICTURE, FOLKS!!! THESE ARE FILES, AND WE WANT TO SYNC THEM. NOW, PLEASE...NOT IN ANOTHER TWO YEARS.

AND THE SAME GOES FOR OMNIOUTLINE!!!

whpalmer4

2012-01-12, 07:51 PM

Great, just what I always wanted, a program where I can easily get my files in and out, but there isn't much to do with them once they are there. Sort of like a very expensive USB memory stick :-)

That must not be wholly satisfactory for you, either, because you're here bemoaning the state of affairs with OmniGraffle.

No question about it, direct Dropbox access would make moving files in and out easier. But let's assume that it might be a bit of work to implement that feature. Which feature(s) would you have had them not implement so they could spend the time to do Dropbox instead? I am making an assumption here that they are working hard, not just surfing the web most of the day, but I think that is a good assumption, don't you?

jpagels

2012-02-20, 10:39 PM

So, I've recently become addicted to the desktop version of OG (and most of the rest of the Omni lineup). And I've discovered that OG for the iPad has the potential to be my most effective way of brainstorming. But trying to get my quick iPad sketches over to the desktop for refinement slows down the process to the point where all of the advantages over other methods start to get lost.

I very rarely physically connect my iPad to my macbook because it's a really longwinded process that's so rarely necessary. And I don't want to do it everytime I need to move an OG file.

I realize that you support iDisk and webdav, and I hear they work fairly well, but DropBox is ubiquitous and I already have more than enough accounts to keep track of as it is. In the "Send to App" section of the export menu, DropBox comes up as an option, but if you try to feed it an OmniGraffle file it returns the error message, "Unable to Upload - This is not a valid file to upload."

I find both versions of OG to be fantastic, if they'd just talk to each other a little easier they'd be perfect.

whpalmer4

2012-02-21, 06:32 AM

Jpagels, given that you have to export the document from the app, it takes no longer to do so to the Omni Sync Server than it would to DropBox. It remembers your login information, so that isn't a big deal either. However, if you want to deny yourself something that you think has the potential to be your most effective means of brainstorming, well, that's your choice. There's no reason to expect DropBox support any time soon, if at all, however. You might see iCloud support, as they've been working on that.

Two other observations: the email transfer is quick and easy, and in my experience, frequently connecting iPad to iTunes makes the process fast, not slow.

Seems silly not to make use of something you've already bought due to theoretical objections...

gohnjanotis

2012-02-22, 03:27 AM

japagels, I'm with you. Dropbox support would make OG so much better. I think iCloud would solve this well, too, since it would avoid having multiple copies of each of my OG files floating around.

Whpalmer: I disagree that the other methods you mention are "quick and easy" solutions because they result in duplicate copies of the same file, and there are revision issues. Also, I rarely plug my iPad into the computer, like japagels. Let's get a lower resistance way to have the same documents accessible and up to date on each device!

whpalmer4

2012-02-22, 06:39 AM

My mistake, I must have just imagined it was easy. Odd that I don't recall all of the difficulties — repeatedly running my head into the wall must have given me a traumatic amnesia :-)

Fixing the bug where you cannot send a file to the DropBox app for upload will not address the issue of proliferating versions.

vegaz

2012-02-29, 02:31 AM

Jpagels, given that you have to export the document from the app, it takes no longer to do so to the Omni Sync Server than it would to DropBox.

Not so true, IMHO, at least in a scenario of mixed use of iOS/OSX. Dropbox is integrated with the finder and when a file is changed on the server it gets updated automatically on your machine. On the other side, with a WebDAV server (like OmniSync) you can access your files from the Mac, but they remain on the remote server, except when you are using the now almost dead iDisk.
At least, if I remember correctly. The result is a much slower and cumbersome user experience, at least the last time I tried.
I'm still quite comfortable using iDisk, but these are the last months of life of this service.
I still hope Omni will see the light and add Dropbox support, otherwise I'll search for some software solution to better integrate a generic WebDAV server in OSX.

whpalmer4

2012-02-29, 09:06 AM

Leave the files on the OSS and use them there.

vegaz

2012-02-29, 12:48 PM

Leave the files on the OSS and use them there.

IME, it is not a satisfactory experience. Too much lag. Admittedly my connection is not lightning-fast, but it's not so shabby either...
I need to work on local copies.

larrytru

2012-06-01, 08:11 AM

jpagels original point was not about whether dropbox should be supported, but the fact that through send to it is supported, but broken.

If you try to send a OmniGraffle format file to dropbox it fails. If you send it as a PDF or other it works.

If sending it to dropbox as a OmniGraffle file is not supported, it should be be offered as an option.

One possibility is that the failure has something to do with the DropBox importation feature. But we have no idea whether anyone has even looked at this issue.

Larry

mbchamberlain

2012-08-13, 04:30 PM

Beyond Dropbox, is iCloud support (both Mac and iPad) planned? If so, I'd buy the iPad version in a heartbeat.

Brian

2012-12-20, 09:23 AM

underthumb

2013-01-05, 05:55 PM

We're implementing document sync for OmniGraffle and our other document-based apps, but it'll be based on open web technologies, rather than tied to a particular vendor's proprietary back end. Document sync is coming, in other words, but it won't be based on Dropbox or iCloud.

I understand how this might be attractive from an engineering perspective, but I don't see how this benefits users. The applications you're developing are already tied to a single vendor's proprietary technology, Apple. Why not support their flagship cloud service? How does it benefit me, as a customer, to have to use a different cloud service to keep my documents in sync?

whpalmer4

2013-01-05, 08:57 PM

I understand how this might be attractive from an engineering perspective, but I don't see how this benefits users. The applications you're developing are already tied to a single vendor's proprietary technology, Apple. Why not support their flagship cloud service? How does it benefit me, as a customer, to have to use a different cloud service to keep my documents in sync?
Do you remember Apple's previous cloud service? I get Http/1.1 Service Unavailable when I visit the webpage now...

underthumb

2013-01-12, 09:37 AM

Do you remember Apple's previous cloud service? I get Http/1.1 Service Unavailable when I visit the webpage now...

Supporting iCloud does not require that they abandon supporting alternative services.

whpalmer4

2013-01-12, 10:42 AM

Supporting iCloud does not require that they abandon supporting alternative services.

One of the situations they are attempting to protect against is Apple deciding that they are tired of iCloud and they have something new they'd rather we use. MobileMe is an example of Apple doing just that — yanking the rug out from under the users of their previous "latest and greatest" service in favor of a new one. Apple also yanked some of the calendar access support, which made it impractical for OmniFocus to continue to sync with iCal. How many times do you need to be burned before you draw the conclusion that the stove is hot, and maybe you should lean against something else?

So, building the sync mechanism on technology not tied to any one vendor means that the sync mechanism will not be held hostage by the whims of a third party. If you build it yourself, you control it. If someone else builds it, you don't.

underthumb

2013-01-13, 11:01 AM

So, building the sync mechanism on technology not tied to any one vendor means that the sync mechanism will not be held hostage by the whims of a third party. If you build it yourself, you control it. If someone else builds it, you don't.

I fully understand your point, and it is a legitimate one. However, again, supporting iCloud does not mean that they cannot support other, vendor-neutral technologies. Omnigroup exists to serve their customers. I am (one) customer that wants them to support a particular feature. I suspect I am not the only one.

whpalmer4

2013-01-13, 11:37 AM

Not really much point in building the same thing over and over, when the list of other feature requests is as long as it is. In any case, they've publicly stated that iCloud was technically unworkable for their needs, and they spent a year trying to make the square peg go into the round hole before reluctantly making that decision. Unless Apple decides to fix the issues that made it unworkable, you might as well ask for a pony...

underthumb

2013-01-13, 11:40 AM