File Browser woes

[HappyCatMachine]

I've imported all my Carbonfin Outliner outlines into OO. These are mostly outlines from various talks that I give though a few are for papers that are in progress. All in all it amounts to about 40 outlines that I work on from time to time.

It seems that the file browser is sorting files by recent modification rather than by title. I have meticulously named all of these files so it will be easy to retrieve any of them as quickly as cover-flow allows. Unfortunately my naming conventions seem to be moot.

Is there any way to have these documents display alphabetically?

I will send a request in file browser improvements though it will mean basically scrapping cover flow and replacing it with a decent file management system (ala GoodReader). I'm quite surprised your UI expert signed off on cover flow.

[scottcoulter]

I have 45 outlines in OO, and I have to concur that the current file browser does not work effectively with outlines.

Would really like some alternative. Perhaps a popup with a file list?

[Greg Jones]

I will send a request in file browser improvements though it will mean basically scrapping cover flow and replacing it with a decent file management system (ala GoodReader).

I'm in favor of a change, but please let it look like anything but GoodReader. GoodReader is a very powerful app, but its UI leaves a lot to be desired. I've submitted a request to look at the file management system in iThoughts HD (http://www.ithoughts.co.uk/iThoughtsHD/Welcome.html), which is very nicely done.

[Tam]

I agree that cover flow is a poor choice (or at least, not suitable for everyone - there may be some users who love it). My outlines often look very similar with the name being the main distinguishing feature.

That said, I don't care for GoodReader in this regard. I find it far too busy/cluttered.

I'll be sending a feature request too on this. I think my preference would be for something simple along the lines of QuickOffice.

[HappyCatMachine]

Indeed, iThoughts is probably a better alternative. I also find QuickOffice good in some respects, not so in others. Honestly though they are ALL better and more effective than cover flow. I agree that a GoodReader is cluttered however it's much more flexible and allows for managing more files than cover flow.

[poritsky]

I'm a fan of Penultimate's file system, which allows you to choose between the same style as OO, Pages, etc. or a more grid-like view (http://www.flickr.com/photos/poritsky/5716025558/). I really like this grid view, because even though you won't be able to see as many documents as with a list view, you can still make out the basic design of each document. 6 full docs are visible on one page, with 2 more obscured at the bottom.

That's way better than one document. Plus, you can quickly scroll and organize either by name or modify date. In Penultimate, you have to click a "notebook" twice to open it: once to select it, making available for export/delete, and once to actually open it. This changes the user experience compared to OO's one doc active at a time scheme, but it could be a nice trade off.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3487/5716025558_1984e854ac_m.jpg

[HappyCatMachine]

I'm a fan of Penultimate's file system, which allows you to choose between the same style as OO, Pages, etc. or a more grid-like view (http://www.flickr.com/photos/poritsky/5716025558/). I really like this grid view, because even though you won't be able to see as many documents as with a list view, you can still make out the basic design of each document. 6 full docs are visible on one page, with 2 more obscured at the bottom.

That's way better than one document. Plus, you can quickly scroll and organize either by name or modify date. In Penultimate, you have to click a "notebook" twice to open it: once to select it, making available for export/delete, and once to actually open it. This changes the user experience compared to OO's one doc active at a time scheme, but it could be a nice trade off.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3487/5716025558_1984e854ac_m.jpg

It's pretty but again suffers from the same sort of thing that cover flow suffers from. The preview takes time and resources to render. One reason the miniature pages work for recognition in Penultimate is that they do not offer a zoom view when writing. This means even with a stylus that writing tends to be much larger than type. I use NoteShelf with it's zoom writing and if pages were reduced to that small I'd be hard pressed to recognise which were which unless I also doodled a bit on them....which I do:cool:.

Still, if given the choice of cover flow with catalogue view (penultimate's method) I'd choose the latter. What we really need are lists of files and folders to organise them in. I'm still really confused as to why Omni felt cover flow was appropriate for document storage and access. It makes the iPad feel and look more like a toy than a tool.

[psidnell]

I had a tonne of CarbonFin outliner docs, most of them small simple text outlines with no checkboxes.

What I've done is merge most of them into a single OO document with the document name being the name of each root node (or section).

It actually works quite well for simple notes.

[witz]

I agree, the document browser is a drag.
In an environment like that, I remember things spatially, so having them sort by most recent doesn't work for me at all.

I like how iBooks does it. You have options and "collection" folders. I would use list view for OO most likely, as I have an irrational anxiety that hits me when the preview is loading. I always feel like somewhere, somehow something is going to go wrong.

I would actually prefer a Goodreader style list, with folders.

oh yeah, and it usually crashes when I duplicate an outline.

[mctheriot]

Agree 100%

I want to like and use these apps more than I do, but I need some solid management of files, including seamless to my desktop.

I found myself using Carbonfin this morning because I knew the file would be back at my desk when I got there - no extra work involved. This is NOT a good sign.

Mark

[Tam]

If you're working with an OPML file it's even worse, since all you see is a massive great icon. No preview.

[lamp]

Agree. Although I love most of the UI of OO iPad, the file management interface needs massive work.

I just happened to import a tons of OPML file from iThoughts across my neatly organized folder structures on Work (including Areas of Responsibilities folders), Goals, Personal (in both iThoughts "file system" synced automatically to Dropbox). OO iPad just treated these >30 files as BIG blown up icon with no Preview (unless I converted to OO) and finding these files in the "Coverflow-like" view is a pain!

[vchaney]

I like the general interface but the file browser makes using more than a handful of files very difficult.

I would like to use OO in place of Notebooks for keeping meeting notes but the filing system is much better in Notebooks.

Some sort of folders, books or other filing system is certainly needed. Also search and tagging would be very useful.

[HappyCatMachine]

I like the general interface but the file browser makes using more than a handful of files very difficult.

I would like to use OO in place of Notebooks for keeping meeting notes but the filing system is much better in Notebooks.

Some sort of folders, books or other filing system is certainly needed. Also search and tagging would be very useful.

Agreed, I like Notebooks too.

[TedPas]

Notebooks does file management better than any other app that I have tried.

OmniOutliner has such great potential, but in its current form, it is really unusable for business (note taking, agendas...)

I need:
- better file management
- better integration of templates
- better synchronization

Keep up the good work.

[Schlaefer]

The current fancy view implementation barely scales beyond the number of example documents provided by the app. I'm not even sure if zooming out a single document a few percent and presenting a delete and sharing button deserves to be called document management at all.

And no, it's not coverflow, even coverflow presents a preview for a reasonable number of documents left and right to the current, but OO doesn't do that.

I spend extra bucks for a dedicated list/outliner app because I intend to have more than four or five lists. It's a little bit ironic that while the editing engine is the king of the hill for organizing the document management in the very same app fails so hard at it.

There're some good ideas in this thread, but even a simple button which provides a flat list of all files (last modified/by title) would be huge improvement. Please consider it Omni. Thanks.

PS: Email to support goes out as well.

[whpalmer4]

And no, it's not coverflow, even coverflow presents a preview for a reasonable number of documents left and right to the current, but OO doesn't do that.

Coverflow as implemented in the Snow Leopard Finder and iTunes 10 shows only the selected item in its entirety (well, the first page), and portions of documents to either side. That's what OmniOutliner does on my iPad (agreed, it doesn't show as many partially obscured documents). As a bonus, I can actually read the displayed document, which I cannot easily do when using Coverflow in the Finder on an 11" MacBook Air. For the approximately 6 dozen outlines on my iPad, the option to sort by date modified or title combined with the scrubber allows me to get to a file quickly if I either recall the name or approximately when I last worked on it. I would have to scroll through the flat list of 70 files, too, so the proposed list seems like it is going to add the most value for finding a file whose name I don't recall but will recognize without seeing the contents. Is there another scenario where the list is a big win that I've overlooked?

I wouldn't mind having a straight list of files to browse, though (and am sending in my request now). I also wouldn't mind if the WebDAV support remembered where I last was in my hierarchy, if it remembered where a file came from, made it easier to keep multiple versions and so on. But I'm glad they concentrated most of the initial effort on what I can do with the document once I actually find it, because a glorious file management experience linked up to the Notes app would be much less useful, I think...and OmniDocumentManagerWithATouchOfOutlining just doesn't roll off the tongue as pleasingly, and is more work to type :)