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View Full Version : New "one window mode" is not what I want


zottel
2006-12-08, 12:53 PM
What I'd like to have—and what I got with the old hidden preference—is that I never get a new window. New tabs are absolutely ok, though, and in many cases, when the link defaults to a new window, replacing the current window content is not very good.

So, please give us a preference that never ever opens any new windows, but does open new tabs if the link says a new window should be opened.

JKT
2006-12-08, 01:42 PM
If you mean what I think you mean...

http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=2339

It's a bug.

zottel
2006-12-08, 02:08 PM
I don't mean the bug; what I mean is actually what the old hidden pref was like.

In short words: Always do what the page tells OW to do, but whenever a new window is requested, open a new tab instead. That would be sufficient. Or what Handycam requested—best as an option to choose between these two: Open new tabs only for "_blank" links.

troyb
2006-12-08, 02:29 PM
Can you give me an example where opening a 3rd party link in the current window is bad?

coldforge
2006-12-09, 05:02 AM
Can you give me an example where opening a 3rd party link in the current window is bad?

Here's an example: on rojo.com, using the default settings, a click on an article name brings up a new window—whether you hold command or not. Changing "open links within the same website" to "same window" makes the page show up in the same window (because any article link is actually a link to a rojo hash, like rojo.com/article?=2342ndwfwoeij2), but as long as that is open, even holding down command makes it open in the same window. Thus, either opening in the same window or a different one, the only way to get it to open in a new tab is to drag the link to the tab bar. By contrast, in the old way, command-clicking the link made it open with a new tab, no questions asked.

coldforge
2006-12-09, 05:36 AM
In fact, in general, it would appear that if "open links to other sites" is set to "same window", then command-clicking to create a new tab doesn't work at all. I get the same result in wordie.org. Is that possibly correct?

thestaton
2006-12-11, 10:22 AM
I agree with the OP. I'm trying the new beta and when ever you make a post on the forum with the settings you get a new tab for the tread, a new tab for the reply, and a new tab for the message you just posted.

this is silly. like the OP all I want is the ability for OW to act normal on say a forum, however if I click a link to see a video have it open a new thread.

but if I want to just post a message I should not have to close 3 to 4 tabs.

JKT
2006-12-11, 01:02 PM
I don't see that happening at all. What are your settings for new tabs? Have you tried setting them so that they do what you want in the site specific preferences (and in the default preferences)? With 5.5.2 they introduced a new option for "Links within the same site:", so have you set that up the way you want it to work?

troyb
2006-12-11, 03:05 PM
Okay... we're going to make a change to the UI. We're going to dump the From Same Site bit and add a check box that only affects pop-ups.

It doesn't seem like anyone is using the same site preference and the fact that it is all or nothing makes it not very friendly.

The new checkbox will take precedence over your third-party links preference.

(Also, forcing links into same window is a tad buggy right now so I don't doubt that you were seeing issues there.)

Handycam
2006-12-11, 03:25 PM
and add a check box that only affects pop-ups.

What does this mean, exactly?

troyb
2006-12-11, 03:33 PM
We're adding a check box that will place anything that opens in a new window (target="_blank" javascript whatever) in a new tab.

Handycam
2006-12-11, 03:47 PM
Sounds good. But target=_blank and a javascript:window.open() should not be lumped together IMHO.

The former is a typical web annoyance, but javascript:window.open() is usually for a good reason...

Forrest
2006-12-11, 04:54 PM
Sounds good. But target=_blank and a javascript:window.open() should not be lumped together IMHO.

The former is a typical web annoyance, but javascript:window.open() is usually for a good reason...

I concur .

thestaton
2006-12-11, 04:58 PM
Troy that sounds awesome, thanks so much!

troyb
2006-12-12, 08:02 AM
I agree as well but I'm also not a person that wants single window browsing which is what we're trying to accomplish here. Only forcing target blank into a new window would still produce window litter with pop-ups.

You can still just use the From third-party sites setting (I think third-party links are the most common culprit of getting the target blank treatment).
This will be a site preference.
Setting up your command-click behavior to pop windows as a new tab will still work as well.

At the moment this seems like the best solution to the problem of course if it doesn't work, it doesn't work and we'll reconsider. I'm just trying to get as close as possible to making everyone happy :)

Forrest
2006-12-12, 08:31 AM
So is "allow javascript to reorder windows" and "allow javascript to resize windows" going to be automatically deselected with this? If not, there's not there's going to be a lot of issues.

I would really like to see a version of this feature that didn't apply to JS popups. For example, if I post a link to this forum (http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?p=9467) in this forum it automatically gets a target="_blank" assigned. I would want such links to stay in the same window.

But if I click on the calendar icon at http://www.hotels.com/ I would want that to open in a new window. I certainly wouldn't want it to open in the same window and then resize the whole window to 160x170.

On a side note, I'm not sure how many email you guys got requesting a single window mode, but going by forum posts it seems like there's way more people having CPU and crashing issues.

troyb
2006-12-12, 08:54 AM
So is "allow javascript to reorder windows" and "allow javascript to resize windows" going to be automatically deselected with this? If not, there's not there's going to be a lot of issues.

Resize doesn't work on a window that has multiple tabs or history. Reload does currently but probably should have rules of its own.

I would really like to see a version of this feature that didn't apply to JS popups. For example, if I post a link to this forum (http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?p=9467) in this forum it automatically gets a target="_blank" assigned. I would want such links to stay in the same window.

But if I click on the calendar icon at http://www.hotels.com/ I would want that to open in a new window. I certainly wouldn't want it to open in the same window and then resize the whole window to 160x170.

Fair enough.

On a side note, I'm not sure how many email you guys got requesting a single window mode, but going by forum posts it seems like there's way more people having CPU and crashing issues.

Well of course I was referring to this feature specifically. We want you to crash and hang less too.

Handycam
2006-12-12, 09:41 AM
I would really like to see a version of this feature that didn't apply to JS popups. For example, if I post a link to this forum (http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?p=9467) in this forum it automatically gets a target="_blank" assigned. I would want such links to stay in the same window.

But if I click on the calendar icon at http://www.hotels.com/ I would want that to open in a new window. I certainly wouldn't want it to open in the same window and then resize the whole window to 160x170.

Exactly. I sure hope this is the way it will work.

Forrest
2006-12-12, 10:54 AM
Resize doesn't work on a window that has multiple tabs or history.

You sure about that? Or do you mean that's the plan?

http://home.comcast.net/~filehost/og/ow_js-window-new-tab.jpg

It also removes the status bar, location bar, nav bar... for all of the other tabs in that window.

Well of course I was referring to this feature specifically. We want you to crash and hang less too.

Yeah, I just find it irritating that an new feature requested by seemingly few is being implemented before a performance/crashing issue reported by many is fixed.

JKT
2006-12-12, 11:27 AM
Yeah, I just find it irritating that an new feature requested by seemingly few is being implemented before a performance/crashing issue reported by many is fixed.
Since the forums started (and long before that too), it seems to me that there have been a fairly significant number of requests for new windows not to be created when clicking links - how many threads have there been where target="_blank" has come up? That isn't to say that there haven't been lots on performance issues either, but...

Forrest
2006-12-12, 12:00 PM
Since the forums started (and long before that too), it seems to me that there have been a fairly significant number of requests for new windows not to be created when clicking links - how many threads have there been where target="_blank" has come up? That isn't to say that there haven't been lots on performance issues either, but...

The CPU issues started with 5.5. So as far as requests go, I'm starting my tracking there. Also, much of the discussion over target="_blank" was because of a 5.5 bug in how that was handled until 5.5.2 b1. A lot of the requests for single window mode stemmed from that. So lumping together all threads regarding target="_blank" isn't very accurate.

But if you really want to lump in all discussion of target="_blank" into one pile, then I get to lump all performance issues mentioned - from the mailing list too - into this ;)

zottel
2006-12-12, 02:52 PM
The new features described here sound perfect. Thanks. .-)

Handycam
2006-12-14, 04:35 PM
OK, I really don't understand why anyone would use the new 5.5.2b3 "Links that create a new window" option.

Instead of just forcing target=_blank into a new tab, it forces pop-up windows into a new tab. What good is that?

The other options, like "links to other sites" at least force most (if not all) target blank links (which are mostly to other sites) in the same window. But the new checkbox, IMO, adds nothing to the game.

troyb
2006-12-15, 07:58 AM
You can still use the links to other sites option to force target="_blank" into a new tab if you prefer that. The reason we added the checkbox is because there are people looking to force all pop-ups into new tabs not just target blank but _everything_.

I understand what you're looking for though. Sorry we haven't been able to get it quite right for you just yet.

troyb
2006-12-15, 08:11 AM
You sure about that? Or do you mean that's the plan? [SNIP] It also removes the status bar, location bar, nav bar... for all of the other tabs in that window.


Forrest, my apologies, we did introduce a bug that caused new windows that got forced into tabs to resize the window. They were bypassing our rules for this but the problem should now be corrected.

We've also added some rules for re-ording windows when opening in tabs.

thestaton
2006-12-15, 08:26 AM
I'm using the new beta 3 and I have to say I think you got it right!!!

The only options I'm using are:

Links from other apps & Links to other sites = Open in new tab.

I would say 95% of my websites are working great like this and I can't say thanks enough.

I've not tried the new checkbox yet for the option:
Links that create a new window.

What would this do compared to how I have it setup right now?

thanks again dev team!

troyb
2006-12-15, 08:31 AM
It forces links that create new windows to open as new tabs instead. So basically in your configuration it would also force link pop-ups and such that come from the same site to open as tabs as well.

Handycam
2006-12-15, 10:49 AM
It's still very broken.

target blank links STILL pop a new window:

http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=ZINNI

Click the "NRCS" logo at the top right. I have my prefs set to open links to other sites in the same window -- but this opens a new window!!

True, if I check the box I get the link in a new tab -- but then all my pop-up javascript windows get sent to a new tab! For example, try:

http://copyranter.blogspot.com/

And click on one of the "comments" links for a blog entry. You're supposed to get a small scrolling popup window, but with the checkbox checked it goes into a new tab and looks all wrong.

It may be hard to code, but I think it's simple in practice. To see an example, get Safari and install Safari Stand (I think Saft does this too).

Check the one simple box, as shown:

http://stevelombardi.com/ow/stand.png

And, in Safari itself, choose how to handle links from other apps, like Mail:

http://stevelombardi.com/ow/safari.png

That's it. Done. All requested pop-up windows open as expected. All unwanted pop-ups are trapped by the pop-up blocker. All links to target blank open in a new tab. Configured as I have it, Safari will NEVER open an unwanted browser window.

I really hope this is fixed.

troyb
2006-12-15, 12:55 PM
It's still very broken.

target blank links STILL pop a new window:

http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=ZINNI

Click the "NRCS" logo at the top right. I have my prefs set to open links to other sites in the same window -- but this opens a new window!!


This link goes to another page in the same domain so the behavior you're seeing is expected.

True, if I check the box I get the link in a new tab -- but then all my pop-up javascript windows get sent to a new tab! For example, try:

http://copyranter.blogspot.com/



As I mentioned earlier I understand what you want. What we have added here is a single window browsing mode. This obviously is not what you're looking for--I really do understand this. If it turns out that the current implementation is wrong then you bet we will change it but at the moment the feature set is doing what it's supposed to.

troyb
2006-12-15, 12:59 PM
Also, we have a request for allowing exactly what you want. We also don't want useless UI. If no one wants the current UI then we'll make changes. If it turns out that it's a 50/50 split then we'll do what we can to offer functionality for both sides. It isn't our intention to leave you in the dark here.

troyb
2006-12-15, 01:27 PM
Okay. I think we're going to add a hidden default to get what you want here. What it will do is "only" force target="_blank" links in a new tab, other pop-ups--javascript or whatever will continue to open normally.

Drayon
2006-12-16, 06:12 PM
OK, I really don't understand why anyone would use the new 5.5.2b3 "Links that create a new window" option.

Instead of just forcing target=_blank into a new tab, it forces pop-up windows into a new tab. What good is that?

The other options, like "links to other sites" at least force most (if not all) target blank links (which are mostly to other sites) in the same window. But the new checkbox, IMO, adds nothing to the game.


I doubt i can agree with much of what you posted. "Links to other sites" never opened in a new tab for me, they ALWAYS opened in a new window which is exactly what i DON'T want. The new check box does exactly what is required for me, that is, links in pages to open in a new Tab NOT a new window.

Im happy with the new setting...finally!!

Handycam
2006-12-17, 04:15 AM
Okay. I think we're going to add a hidden default to get what you want here. What it will do is "only" force target="_blank" links in a new tab, other pop-ups--javascript or whatever will continue to open normally.

Excellent! You guys rule.

coldforge
2006-12-18, 05:20 AM
Speaking as one of the ones who was complaining about ßs 1 and 2, let me say that the new checkbox totally satisfies me, too. And if it ever conflicts with any poorly-programmed pop-up that should actually spawn but doesnt—it's a site preference. Lovely.

Handycam
2006-12-18, 08:09 AM
How does the checkbox satisfy you if it cripples legit popups?

Yes, I'm currently using this and overriding by site on sites that use popups, but IMO this is a pain.

I can understand wanting to block extraneous windows (i.e. target-blank) but I don't understand wanting to force a tiny pop-up glossary window (for example) into an enormous, full-size window in another tab.

As long as the preference is added, even hidden as Troy says, to do what I would like to do, I'm happy. Even though I think the way Saft and Safaristand handle this issue is cleaner.

zottel
2006-12-19, 12:37 PM
I agree with Handycam, here. I positively hate multiple browser windows, but small popups are ok. Now if they're forced into a new tab and thus have the size of the entire window, I can live with that. Just the old hidden preference, that's ok for me, and I'm glad I can do this again now.

I originally started this thread because I wanted to able to have everything in tabs again without everything being opened in the same tab/window.

It would be even nicer, though, if "_blank" targets could always be new tabs, and small popups would produce new windows.

Edit: An idea about UI integration: I agree that it wouldn't be a good idea to put something like "_blank" into the UI preferences—many users won't know what that means, and as I haven't designed a web page for a very long time, I must admit that I didn't know about that target="_blank" stuff myself before it was mentioned in threads about this subject.

So maybe you could call this "Open only popups in new windows" or sth similar. Everyone knows what popups are, as opposed to target="_blank" links. :-)

And I do believe this should be part of the commonly accesible features, as it's a great one.

Handycam
2006-12-19, 12:43 PM
It would be even nicer, though, if "_blank" targets could always be new tabs, and small popups would produce new windows.

---------- :)

troyb
2006-12-20, 11:18 AM
Beta 4 has the new preference. If it turns out this is what everyone wants we'll make adjustments to the UI but for the time being, quit OmniWeb and run this terminal command:

defaults write com.omnigroup.OmniWeb5 OWOpenTargetBlankInTabs -bool True


This will allow javascript links to open in new windows but force target="_blank" as new tabs.

Enjoy!

Handycam
2006-12-20, 11:56 AM
I said it before: you guys are the best!

zottel
2006-12-21, 11:38 AM
Perfect, thanks! :-)

I still believe this should be a normal preference option, described understable for all as I stated above.

Handycam
2006-12-21, 11:42 AM
Indeed, this is working perfectly.

Forrest
2006-12-29, 01:08 PM
I haven't dug through this site's code, but it's not working well with OW.
http://www.sonicboomrecords.com/

I have "Links to other sites" set to open in a new tab, Links that create a new window to Open in a new tab instead. I also have ad blocking set to Block pop-up/under windows Only when not requested.

However, when I go to that site after a few seconds I get redirected to a player window. Test this in Safari and it opens a pop-up. The three issues here being:
1. The pop-up is circumventing the "Only when not requested" pref (I know that's not 100% fool proof.)
2. The pref for opening new windows in a new tab is being ignored and not only that but
3. A pop-up window is being opened in the same tab (instead of a new window) which is exactly what I never want to have happen.

This is with 5.5.2 b4.

Handycam
2006-12-29, 02:53 PM
I have my OW set to:
-- other apps in a new tab
-- links to other sites: work as specified in web page
-- check box unchecked

And then I set the "hidden" pref a troy indicated (to open only blank links in new tab)

The site seems to work ok for me, and I've found these settings to be the best overall, not changing the basic browsing experience -- except for stopping "blank" links.

Forrest
2007-01-02, 09:09 AM
Yep. For some reason I was thinking the checkbox was for target=_blank and the hidden pref was for all windows. Still, it's not opening the JS window in a new window like the checkbox is set to.

Having JS windows open in new tabs is really annoying. This especially being the case with how OW orders tabs. If I've got 200 in a window and I click on a JS popup in the first tab, the resulting tab is #201. Not so bad except when I close it I end up at #200. I'd use the keyboard to navigate but then the browser window loses focus and I have to grab my mouse anyway.

troyb
2007-01-04, 01:47 PM
1.) Forest I can't reproduce what you're seeing. For me the pop-up is trapped. Stupid question i know but are you sure you're in beta 4? There was an issue previously that was causing the pop-up blocker to break if you were forcing pop-ups into tabs.

2.) If you prefer the hidden preference over what we have in the interface please send us feedback via the help menu to let us know. (I Know where everyone that has responded to this thread stands).

Forrest
2007-01-04, 03:02 PM
I'm running b4.

I quit OW, returned the hidden pref to false then set my settings as described in my previous post. Oddly enough, it did end up the popup blocker. Strangely though, the site is now set to have the popup load onload. Before there was a timer.

Now, I still have an issue. And that is when the page loads I get sent to another tap. Here's a motion screen capture. (http://lpnw.pwntv.com/files/OmniWebScreenSnapz003.mov) All I do is hit reload.

JKT
2007-01-05, 04:56 AM
1.) Forest I can't reproduce what you're seeing. For me the pop-up is trapped. Stupid question i know but are you sure you're in beta 4? There was an issue previously that was causing the pop-up blocker to break if you were forcing pop-ups into tabs.

2.) If you prefer the hidden preference over what we have in the interface please send us feedback via the help menu to let us know. (I Know where everyone that has responded to this thread stands).
FWIW, I've never activated the hidden preference and I am experiencing the same behaviour as Forrest - JS pop-ups are being trapped in the main window and are not opening their own, even though my JS settings are such that this should be allowed.

Maybe it has something to do with using the options that were available with the prior betas? Would those settings have been retained in this beta even though the UI is no longer there to set them?

Handycam
2007-01-05, 10:07 AM
I've been having no problem with pop-up windows, using the settings I mentioned earlier:

-- other apps: open in a new tab
-- links to other sites: work as specified in web page
-- new check box UNchecked
-- hidden pref set to "true"

I think this thing has gotten way to complex. For the reasons Forrest points out, why would someone want to force a pop-up window into a new tab? Maybe one miles from its parent in the tab drawer?

I think the important issues are:

1. what to do with outside links, i.e. from Mail
2. what to do when a web page tries to open a new window through target "blank"

In my case, I set the one pref and the hidden pref, and all is well. This is EXACTLY the level of control I get in Safari and Fx.

Combined with the already excellent pop-up blocker to block UNREQUESTED pop-ups, this is fine by me. Providing the bugs Forrest mentions are fixed, of course :-)

kga1978
2007-01-08, 12:10 PM
I would like to add another suggestion to this discussion. I really like this new "one window" browsing, but there's one thing....

When I click a link that would normally open a new window, it will now open and select a new tab instead - which is great. However, when I now close this newly created tab, the browser will select the tab 'on top' - NOT the tab that I just came from. In other words - if you have multiple tabs open, this new feature is not working very well.

Would it be possible to implement a way, so when closing these 'new window-tabs', the browser would select the tab you came from (similar to e.g. Firefox)? Obviously we don't want this to happen all the time - as in when you have manually created the tabs, or have opened a tab using "command-click".

Handycam
2007-01-10, 05:09 AM
Yeah, this has been requested elsewhere. Focus should return to the previously viewed tab, no the one above it in the list. I agree. Hopefully, this will change.