Keeping reference material learned during projects

[SpiralOcean]

While working on a project, there are pieces of information learned, notes taken, that need to be stored in some sort of reference system for later.

The concept of reference material has been elluded to in different posts, here's another idea.

What if there were a way to mark a task as reference, so when a project is completed, reference tasks are copied into a reference depository.

[aearle]

I think this would be extremely useful.

[fideli]

I think that note-taking programs are better suited for reference materials. Programs such as NoteBook (http://www.circusponies.com/), VoodooPad (http://www.flyingmeat.com/voodoopad/), Mori (http://www.hogbaysoftware.com/product/mori), etc, are excellent for storing notes on projects.

My workflow for projects involves using either NoteBook or VoodooPad for all project notes and tidbits learned for reference, and action items in kGTD/OmniFocus. That keeps my action items lean and without distractions.

That's just my opinion. I suppose it depends on the types of projects involved.

[SpiralOcean]

The problem is keeping the notes with the project. When you have over 50 projects, searching through your notes in a seperate application offers resistance. The note being next to the task or inside of the project is more readily available.

[SpiralOcean]

Currently I use Memo Pad from Mark/Space the missing sync. It's an extremely limited notetaker, but it syncs with the palm and allows me to take my notes with me.

I use a program called memo leaf
http://www.redwood-creative.com/global/memoleaf.htm
Which is probably the only application that I use tagging on.

[Ken Case]

In OmniFocus, you will be able to store rich text notes with attachments on your projects (as well as on individual tasks).

(Basic plain text note support is there right now in the current sneaky peek builds; the plan is to add rich text support before we release a public beta.)

[milkshake]

Id strongly second this

Im currently using Backpack and it's really handy to just jot down misc notes relating to a project - FTP info, budgets, names etc.

It feels like the project view is missing a panel to dump stuff thats not actions/to-dos. I know each task currently has its own note/attachment field, but this feels a bit too fiddly and task-specific.

It could mean the difference between having all your stuff in one place, or divided over several apps.

But, I guess you have to a draw a line somewhere as to how much 'support/reference material' should be included.

[gofast]

This is something I struggle with as well. But for many of my projects I have so many different things (pdf's, assorted emails, written docs, graphics, ideas I've jotted down) that somehow attaching them to a task doesn't really work for me - it would be just too cluttered.

I like rich text support, and wouldn't mind being able to drag a doc to a task and have it linked to opening it in its correct app. But I personally need something else for management, either Devon or simply a project folder. Frankly, I still haven't been able to go to using spotlight and shoving all my docs into one big giant folder. I just don't trust that I'll find everything, so I'm still old-school folder-per-project oriented.

[brooce]

Perhaps, for 2.0, you could build on the plumbing OF uses to get to/from Mail, and use it for note-taking apps (VoodooPad is cool).

But ship OF 1.0 first!

[AmberV]

For this kind of stuff, I have noticed that (currently disabled) in the Edit menu, there is what looks to be the start of LinkBack support. If you could slap just any LinkBack supported document into an OF note field, that would be fantastic. And yes, that does include VoodooPad, OmniGraffle, KeyNote and so on. It would be pretty nice to be able to brainstorm a project in OmniGraffle or Curio, and have that available in OF.

[johnrover]

I think there are definatly enough good "archival" and "note taking" systems for OSX. (I'm quite fond of DevonThink for archiving). I would rather not bog down my task program (OF, always open) with my archival program, which has a LOT of data and is only open a few times a day.

The key will be interoperability between programs. Fortunately DevonThink and other make extensive use of the services menu, the applescript menu, and PDF services from the print dialouge. If Omni hooks up flexible printing options, it should be a no brainer to sent your data and nots to a more permanent app when you are done.

No reference archives in OmniFocus please! My data is chunky enough!

[cwmsmick]

It could mean the difference between having all your stuff in one place, or divided over several apps.


This thread has caused me to notice a quite significant difference between the way kGTD and Omni Focus determine whether actions are 'available' and thus can be made into Next Actions.

kGTD seems happy to 'skip over' actions which don't have any context assigned. Thus, if the top action in the list is one without a context, kGTD goes ahead and sets the next action in the list as the Next Action. (I've uploaded a snapshot showing how kGTD handles this.)

By contrast, OmniFocus does _not_ seem willing to make an action the 'Next Action' if there is an action above it in the list, even if that action has no context. (Again, I've uploaded an attachment showing how OF handles the same situation.)

This is a big deal for me, because after trying to use kGTD as just an 'action manager' and keep project support materials in another app, I found that it works much better for me to be able to put support and background materials right into kGTD among the actions. I'd really hate to have to try to go back to separating actions from 'reference materials'.

I know people's brains work differently, but the comments on this thread show that some number of users seem to want to to have the option to be able to keep 'non-action items' in OF as I do.

I've sent a message to the support ninjas asking whether toggling this behavior (whether to allow OF to 'skip over' actions without contexts and make the next action with a context be the 'Next Action') could perhaps be set as a preference in OF.

--Chris

[Grail]

I use a Wiki, and plonk URLs into notes. In iGTD, there is a dedicated URL field for this purpose. Wiki means I can do everything else I need there.

[SpiralOcean]

I use a Wiki, and plonk URLs into notes. In iGTD, there is a dedicated URL field for this purpose. Wiki means I can do everything else I need there.

Interesting... is the Wiki public? Can you post a link?

[Grail]

Interesting... is the Wiki public?

No, it's just an installation of TWiki on my home network, which I happen to have access to from anywhere on the Internet. It contains stuff I don't want other people to see - the Wiki is also my "corporate memory" for want of a better word.

This option won't work for people who don't have constant Internet access (the iPhone on the subway example).

I also use Trac for tasks that are entirely oriented around changes to source code (and any task that contains source code + other work is actually two tasks, break it down). Once a task is recorded in Trac (or any other external task tracking system), the item disappears from the GTD system (it might be referred to by items such as "Document third-party database structure for Trac #356"). Trac includes a wiki system for storing reference material specific to the code base being tracked in Trac.

All I track in iGTD are project names and actions to be taken on those projects - I got lured into storing notes in iGTD a while back and have since regretted it due to the fact that five or six tasks will contain notes of relevance to one client or project, and I end up wasting time searching iGTD for those notes. GTD is a process management paradigm, not a contact management system or a project management methhodology. You wouldn't use a hammer to pull a cork out of a bottle of wine, neither should you use a task tracking system to keep hold of reference material related to a client or project.

TheDave himself says to store all reference material outside your work folders. Check page 36 of the paperback version - the "Workflow Diagram - Organizing" and accompanying text specifically state that if "stuff" you add to your system is non-actionable material that may be of use to you later, move it to your reference filling system.

So if someone from OmniGroup is here, please I beg you, don't make it easy for people to attach scads of material to tasks scattered throughout the OmniFocus database. Instead make it really easy to link to multiple external items (just like iGTD does) - this will link to the user's own reference filing system.

[Terry]

Instead make it really easy to link to multiple external items (just like iGTD does) - this will link to the user's own reference filing system.

I'm definitely in this camp. I already have apps for reference data. A link to it is what I want.

[Beckes]

The problem with this, of course, is that tasks would have to link to individual entries in the user's system to be useful. For all systems, for all users. We clearly cannot expect this unless we got OmniThink ;-)

But if the alternative is being able to reference just single files (as you can to using URLs) and not pages of content, I'd rather have reference material in OF itself.

Having no way of tying such material in -- and in such a way that it's different from tasks (a "note+" task with an RTF note field does not cut it) -- would be problematic.

Klaus

[mikesale@yahoo.com]

In my current model I link from the project extended notes (kGTD) to a folder with the same name under a projects folder (I should really write an applescript to do this!)

It is in this folder that I keep project support materials like my mindmap(s), massive PPTs, aliases to stuff in my electronic reference system and URLs supporting the project.

I also keep notes on the project defining principles and defining outlandish success, and some key dates if needed.

So I'm hoping that I can put an alias in notes for a project!

[SpiralOcean]

what happens when you move you OmniFocus data from your home computer to your work computer?

Do half of the links break?

[phillychuck]

what happens when you move you OmniFocus data from your home computer to your work computer?

Do half of the links break?

Indeed - this is a big potential problem. This is one of my pet peeves with DevonThink.

Though I have yet to get my hands on OF, I would strongly vote for keeping reference materials out of the GTD workflow manager. After all in a manual system, as I understand it, TheDave (tm) has separate reference files from his lists (although obviously his lists might contain pointers to files).

You know, it would be a neat app (maybe someone already has this) to be able to generate "hash codes" for individual files or folders and then to tag them with these "hash codes" (which obviously would need to be long enough so as to have some high probability of being unique) so that a machine independent search for a specific hash code tag would always generate the same file.

[phillychuck]

I've thought about this a bit more. I gather there is a built in UNIX set of commands that generates checksums for files. There are several Mac apps that call it -- I have just downloaded a free one "Checksum Validator". If I manually drag and drop a file on this to generate the checksum, then paste this into the file info spotlight comments, this file is now findable accross the system via spotlight.

Seems to me if there could be an embedded call to this from OF to tag the file with a hash code in the spotlight comments, then this file ought to be findable on any mac. I'm not an applescript guru, but this sounds like a doable task and would make a major advance in how support files are referred to in a way that the links could be preserved accross machines.