How about automatic self-updates...?

[soundsgoodtome]

...with Sparkle.

Many of the "cool" apps are using it, nowadays. With Sparkle, the app updates itself, even relaunching itself after downloading the update. No more web sites, no disk images to mount/unmount, no dealing with the Finder, and no "you can't replace that because it's still running" messages. :-)

It's a real pleasure to use. Info here:

sparkle.andymatuschak.org/

[Weasel]

Sparkle is an incredibly neat framework for software updates. I'd definitely vote in favour for it.

[BwanaZulia]

Yes indeedy.

I wonder if it costs anything.

BZ

[LizPf]

Actually, I'd rather handle the updates myself ... I know too many Window$ users who scream at their PCs during the automatic updates that won't let them shut down.

--Liz

[AmberV]

Actually, it isn't "automatic" in the Windows sense of the word. Applications with Sparkle just pop up an alert saying a new version is available (much as it does already). The only difference is that if you want the update, you click "Install" and it downloads everything and updates the program while you run it. A simple restart at the end of the process and it's all done. So really the main difference for the user is that you don't have to go to a web site, download a DMG, mount it, drag it to Applications, and run the program. I think it is also more efficient too, since it only needs to update the parts that have changed as opposed to getting the whole thing every time. I could be wrong on that last one though.

If you don't want the update, you just skip it.

[LizPf]

Ahh ... much better.

Thanks for clarifying.

-Liz
I want to be in control of my computer, not the other way around

[johnrover]

Sparkle is good. Yes. Please.

[coffeeshoptheologian]

Amen! iGTD uses it and it runs flawlessly.

[Kane]

Right now, updates are so fast and furious that an auto-update feature might not work well.

First is the problem of a "bad" update -- i.e. a buggy version that is introduced that you may not want to download

Second, is that by the time you submit a bug report, the new version could replace the old, and a "false" bug report is generated in your mail program for a previous version (i.e. you get up from your desk, come back, hit feedback, and the new version is being reported).

Jeffrey

[rdjong]

I suspect Sparke might require an admin password, which gives the installer root privileges. No thanks. I love the drag and drop install on all Omni applications.

Roel

[AmberV]

I don't think that is mandatory, Roel. Some applications have asked for a password, others have not. I just updated CSSEdit a few minutes ago with Sparkle, and it never asked for my password.

[Ward]

I have LOTS of practice managing updates ... on my schedule.

Although I use OmniWeb for 99% of my browsing, I have Firefox handy for uncooperative sites. I find auto-update in Firefox to be its least attractive feature, with an uncanny knack for disrupting the task at hand.

If auto-update finds its way into OmniFocus (or other OmniApps), please let me turn it off.

[soundsgoodtome]

Actually, it isn't "automatic" in the Windows sense of the word. Applications with Sparkle just pop up an alert saying a new version is available (much as it does already). The only difference is that if you want the update, you click "Install" and it downloads everything and updates the program while you run it. A simple restart at the end of the process and it's all done. So really the main difference for the user is that you don't have to go to a web site, download a DMG, mount it, drag it to Applications, and run the program. I think it is also more efficient too, since it only needs to update the parts that have changed as opposed to getting the whole thing every time. I could be wrong on that last one though.

If you don't want the update, you just skip it.

AmberV is totally correct. Every update is completely optional. Those of you who are suspicious about Sparkle have simply never used it. It is absolutely amazing, such a time-saver, and a real pleasure to use. But the user is still in control. If you choose to update, it usually takes about 20 seconds (depending upon the size of the update), then you're right back in your brand-new (updated) app.

(A slight modification to AmberV's post; it wouldn't actually require a "restart"; just a quick relaunch of OmniFocus.) :-)

[AmberV]

Thanks for the clarification. Of course, one needn't reboot their computer. :) Only the Safari 3 beta requires a reboot after installation. And Ward, as described in the other post I made: This is no more intrusive than a dialogue box popping up and letting you know an update is available on some web site. I don't understand what is so bad about Firefox's update anyway? For me, it has always downloaded in the background without me even noticing. Then I get a tiny icon letting me know there is an update, and the severity of the update depending on the colour of the icon. Updates are done at my own convenience.

[mithras.the.prophet]

I'd love Sparkle-type updating, in OmniFocus and all Omni apps. I usually ignore the new version notifications, just because I'm that lazy that I don't want to do the "download, unpack, quit app, replace, relaunch" rigamarole.

[Schlaefer]

Another vote for Sparkle

[BwanaZulia]

Can I vote again? :)

BZ

[Ken Case]

Sparkle provides a feature we'd all really like, automatic updates. But it doesn't include some of the functionality that our software update framework already provides: for example, we still want to collect our crash and system statistics (so we can continue to graph our hours per crash, for example). We've looked at Sparkle several times, and each time we've concluded that it would be simpler and easier to add auto-updating to our software update framework than it would be to try to add our features to Sparkle.

But more to the point, we'd need to have someone drop what they're doing now to work on integrating it, slowing down our progress on the application's core features. We don't want to slow down progress on our core features, so automatic updates end up on the back burner (with us taking some baby steps here and there, like the appcast RSS feed we've added for our current round of sneaky peek builds). It's not that we don't want to do it, we just want some time machines and/or clones so that we can do that at the same time as we make progress on the app itself...

(And yes, we realize that by saving ourselves some engineering time we're causing manual downloading time for all of you. I assume you'd all like to have the app's core features finished as soon as possible also, though I could be wrong about that!)

[Ken Case]

And yes, we realize that by saving ourselves some engineering time we're causing manual downloading time for all of you.

P.S. — Actually, you can save yourself that time right now (without waiting for us to implement auto-updating) by trying luomat's get-omnifocus.sh script (http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=4258).

[dhm2006]

(And yes, we realize that by saving ourselves some engineering time we're causing manual downloading time for all of you. I assume you'd all like to have the app's core features finished as soon as possible also, though I could be wrong about that!)

I vote for your working on the app's core features -- until you get the time machine and/or the clones.

[luomat]

P.S. — Actually, you can save yourself that time right now (without waiting for us to implement auto-updating) by trying luomat's get-omnifocus.sh script (http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=4258).


"as seen on 43folders.com"

:-)

[Ken Case]

So, umm, I know what I said last week, but...

We ended up deciding that it's never convenient in any development cycle to improve the software update functionality, which is why some of the ideas we've had (like displaying release notes, indicating whether an update costs money, and what else…—oh, that's right, auto-updating) have been sitting on the back burner since 2002. So we bit the bullet and went ahead and did it.

Enjoy!

[skylarp]

Huzzah! That's excellent news.

[Beckes]

Yes, this appears to work rather well, and is already on a par with other mechanisms such as Stata's or NovaMind's. Thanks a lot, well done.

Klaus

[soundsgoodtome]

So we bit the bullet and went ahead and did it.

Enjoy!

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[kastorff]

I can't seem to authenticate with the auto update mechanism. Using the same User ID and password I use manually fails. Anyone else seeing this?

[Ward]

I encountered two problems in my last round of updating OmniFocus. I started from rev. 89910.

(1) Check for Updates reported 89950 was available. But the integrated update downloaded and installed rev. 89911.

Repeating the update process again showed 89950 pending, but it downloaded and installed 89932.

A third update finally got to 89950.

(2) The 89932 update failed on the first try:

http://homepage.mac.com/wardclark/files/Unable%20to%20mount.jpg
Attempting a second update failed because "a download is already in progress" (not true).

After a quit and relaunch, updating to 89932 went fine.

When installing 89950 failed with the same mount error, I simply quit OmniFocus, mounted the downloaded disk image, and manually installed the new rev.

[submitted as formal feedback]

[pjb]

The downloaded image file does not auto-delete as per the preference. The disk does unmount.

[LizPf]

It does seem the automatic updater will install the next update from what you've been running, not the most recent one.

This will be fine once we're out of alpha, but with several updates a day, it's a pain. [Especially since I didn't update at all since Friday.]

I don't know if this can be fixed, but for now, I'm updating by hand.

--Liz

[pjb]

This is my near-manual way. After agreeing to the legal panel, I run this via LaunchBar.

[soundsgoodtome]

hello. thanks again for implementing this functionality. however, there seems to be a slight hitch:

for simplicity, say i launch build 100, but in the meantime, the omnigods have posted five updates, bringing us up to build 105. when i'm notified of an update and i approve it, instead of installing build 105, the mechanism installs build *101*, which, when launched, notifies me (again) that there's an update. so then, build 102 is installed. and so on, and so on....

i literally just had to install 5 updates in a row (3 early this morning, and 2 this afternoon).

would it be possible to configure the system to always install the latest available update? :-)

[Lizard]

soundsgoodtome: (and others) It looks like we fixed this in r89884, though of course, you'll have to download that one and then wait a few more builds to see the fix.

[dpvanwormer]

soundsgoodtome: (and others) It looks like we fixed this in r89884, though of course, you'll have to download that one and then wait a few more builds to see the fix.

Doesn't appear to me to be fixed! I have had the same problem as Ward since 8/11 and build 89950. Have sent feedback twice - not fixed!

I just started updating from 89969. Auto-update stated 90042 was the latest. When I updated I got 89972 with auto-update. When I updated again, I got 89977 but it would not update automatically. Had to update manually. Then I got 89982 auto-update OK. Then it tried to download 90005 but has hung up 3 times. I seem to be stuck now since 90005 will not download.

I am running 10.4.10 and have had no problems until auto-update started. Where do I go from here?

[curt.clifton]

Doesn't appear to me to be fixed! I have had the same problem as Ward since 8/11 and build 89950. Have sent feedback twice - not fixed!

I just started updating from 89969. Auto-update stated 90042 was the latest. When I updated I got 89972 with auto-update. When I updated again, I got 89977 but it would not update automatically. Had to update manually. Then I got 89982 auto-update OK. Then it tried to download 90005 but has hung up 3 times. I seem to be stuck now since 90005 will not download.

I am running 10.4.10 and have had no problems until auto-update started. Where do I go from here?

Go to the usual sneaky peak website (http://www.omnigroup.com/applications/omnifocus/download/sneakypeek/) and try to download and install manually.

And remember, it's alpha testing. You will need to figure out how to work around some issues and you can't expect bug fixes immediately. If that's your expectation, you haven't understood the disclaimers.

[Ward]

... Then it tried to download 90005 but has hung up 3 times. I seem to be stuck now since 90005 will not download.
90042 downloaded and seems to be running fine.

I resubscribed to the OmniFocus alpha appcast feed (http://www.omnigroup.com/appcast/?title=OmniFocus&release_track=sneakypeek) in case I fall more than one posted release behind.

[dpvanwormer]

Go to the usual sneaky peak website (http://www.omnigroup.com/applications/omnifocus/download/sneakypeek/) and try to download and install manually.

And remember, it's alpha testing. You will need to figure out how to work around some issues and you can't expect bug fixes immediately. If that's your expectation, you haven't understood the disclaimers.

My expectation is that I should be spending my time testing the actual OF app, not the auto-update code!

As I recall, Ken Case wrote something to the effect of: "We don't want to slow down progress on our core features, so automatic updates end up on the back burner" - that has been my expectation also. But, since auto-update came out, there has been a lot of traffic and effort by lots of people just trying to keep up with the updates. Too bad that his fear was what has happened. All the time spent by Omni folk on diagnosing and fixing the auto-update is time not spent on fixing bugs to the core code and adding new features to the core code.

[luomat]

You might be interested in a script that I wrote that will do this.

Requires minimal configuration (you have to put in your username and password once, and agree that it's a use at your own risk program)

http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=4258

I use it just about daily to make sure that I have the latest version of OF, and when they change the format of the RSS feed or where the version number is stored, I generally update the script that day (unless I happen to be offline or some weird thing :-)

[curt.clifton]

You might be interested in a script that I wrote that will do this ....

This script is great. It's what I use to keep my OF install up-to-date. I test Omni's auto-update code every couple of days and submit feedback about what's broken. But like other features of alpha software, I don't rely on the parts that don't work. That's easy to do with non-core features like auto-update, especially with Tim's excellent script.

[Lizard]

soundsgoodtome: (and others) It looks like we fixed this in r89884, though of course, you'll have to download that one and then wait a few more builds to see the fix.

My sincere apologies. A portion of the problem was addressed in that build, but more work remains. And technically, yes, this is delaying Focus, but as Ken pointed out in another thread, it had to delay one of our apps sooner or later.

So, umm, I know what I said last week, but...

We ended up deciding that it's never convenient in any development cycle to improve the software update functionality, which is why some of the ideas we've had (like displaying release notes, indicating whether an update costs money, and what else…—oh, that's right, auto-updating) have been sitting on the back burner since 2002. So we bit the bullet and went ahead and did it.

Enjoy!

[soundsgoodtome]

thanks, guys. we appreciate your hard work...