Filter on explicitly due actions only?

[omnibob]

I'd like a Perspective that shows only actions with a current or past explicitly due date (important so I don't miss doing things with due dates), but using a Perspective with show Due and filter on Due, I see actions not just with explicit Due dates, but ones without as well.

Bob

[curt.clifton]

I'd like a Perspective that shows only actions with a current or past explicitly due date (important so I don't miss doing things with due dates), but using a Perspective with show Due and filter on Due, I see actions not just with explicit Due dates, but ones without as well.


The ones without have parents with due dates. The assumption being that if the parent is due, then all its children must also be due. In fact, the plan as I understand it is to make parent start and due dates serve as constraints on the children. For example, a child could not have an explicit due date later than the parents.

What I would like is for child tasks without explicit due dates to show the parent's due date in context view, perhaps in a lighter shade.

[omnibob]

Curt, thanks for the explanation.

I really expected (and still wish) that actions of parallel projects without explicit due dates wouldn't show up when filtering on due dates. I also see Singleton actions showing up with no explicit due dates, which also seems odd. In both the previous cases, I understand these actions are available, but I want to see things that are explicitly marked with current or past due dates, if they are not part of a sequential project (or whatever library 'folders' are now called) with a current or past due date.

Bob

[curt.clifton]

Ah, I missed something in your original post Bob.

Are you also grouping by due date in your context view? If you group, then the last group will be None. You can collapse that to hide the items without due dates.

[omnibob]

So far, yes, I'm grouping by due date as well. The last group, None, shows items with no (at least) explicit due dates. I can collapse and hide that, but all the other groups (today, next month, etc.) still include actions without explicit due dates, even in parallel projects and singleton groups. thanks

Bob

[brianogilvie]

In both the previous cases, I understand these actions are available, but I want to see things that are explicitly marked with current or past due dates, if they are not part of a sequential project (or whatever library 'folders' are now called) with a current or past due date.

I'm not sure why you expect this behavior. If you have set a due date on a parallel project, doesn't that mean that all the actions in that project should be done by the due date? In that case, I would want all the actions to inherit the project due date and show up when I've grouped or sorted by due date, unless they had their own, earlier, due date, in which case they should show up by then. After all, if the project is due on Oct. 15, then all the actions had better be done by then; otherwise, the project isn't done.

And if your singleton bucket has a due date, the same should apply.

If you haven't set due dates on the parallel projects or buckets, and actions in them show up by due date anyway, then you should report the bug to Omni.

If I've misunderstood you, please clarify why you expect different due date behavior from sequential projects, parallel projects, and single action buckets.

[omnibob]

I'm not sure why you expect this behavior. If you have set a due date on a parallel project, doesn't that mean that all the actions in that project should be done by the due date?[...]

If you haven't set due dates on the parallel projects or buckets, and actions in them show up by due date anyway, then you should report the bug to Omni.

I do not have due dates on the parallel projects or buckets; that is why I expect to only see the actions with due dates.

Bob

[brianogilvie]

I do not have due dates on the parallel projects or buckets; that is why I expect to only see the actions with due dates.

Bob

Could you post a screen shot? That's not the behavior that I get with the latest build.

[omnibob]

I've created four parallel 'projects': two Singleton buckets and two projects. Of the two types, one each has actions with both current (or past) due date; the others with no action due dates. None of the projects/buckets have explicit due dates. (I've filtered on text I tagged the projects and actions with -- "888", to keep the snapshot small enough.)

What I'm seeing is I *think* different than what is expected, if I understand this thread correctly. With filtering set to "due", instead of seeing only actions (of a parallel project with no explicit due date of its own) that have an explicity-set due date, I see *all* actions (even those with no explicity due date) of a project or singleton bucket (in a grouping of Today, Yesterday, etc.)

What seems to be happening is the parallel project and Singleton bucket are showing all actions, even those with no explicit due date, and furthermore, grouped together based on the oldest explicit due date (i.e., an action due today is shown grouped with an action due yesterday).

Bob

[brianogilvie]

What I'm seeing is I *think* different than what is expected, if I understand this thread correctly. With filtering set to "due", instead of seeing only actions (of a parallel project with no explicit due date of its own) that have an explicity-set due date, I see *all* actions (even those with no explicity due date) of a project or singleton bucket (in a grouping of Today, Yesterday, etc.)

What seems to be happening is the parallel project and Singleton bucket are showing all actions, even those with no explicit due date, and furthermore, grouped together based on the oldest explicit due date (i.e., an action due today is shown grouped with an action due yesterday).

Thanks for the screenshot. It shows that you're in project view, not context view. Curt and I were assuming that you were in context view.

In Project view, the behavior you describe is expected. The group and sort items in the view bar don't filter; they organize. (That's why the name is view bar, not filter bar, which was an earlier name.) The first should group projects by their due date or the first due date in them; the second should sort projects by the same criterion (so that, for instance, "Within the next week" will be sorted by due date instead of by some other criterion). The actual actions shown in each project will be determined by your choice in the action filter: all, next, available, remaining, or completed.

In Context view, choosing the same grouping and sorting options will give you the results that Curt and I were describing. It would be nice, though, if the UI displayed the due (or start) date inherited from the project or action group.

[omnibob]

In Project view ... [t]he group and sort items in the view bar don't filter; they organize. (That's why the name is view bar, not filter bar, which was an earlier name.)

That explains it (although in Project view, if you mean view bar as including all five 'selectors', choosing Flagged does filter out all non-flagged items). If Due were a choice in that selector, I imagine I could get what I'm after.

I like working out of the Project view a lot, and here is my reasoning for wanting this behavior. It may be contrary to the current design and thinking of the program, but FWIW:

A calendar (acc. to DA/GTD) is a place to store your hard landscape items. Then you have your other stuff to get done. OF provides a due date, and I use that instead of placing items that need to get done by a date on a date in my Calendar, with no specific time. I like having them in my action list. I also want to be able to (using a Perspective), in Project mode, see everything with due dates (but none without) so I can attend to those important things. At least it's available in context view.

Thanks to you both for your help and explanations.

Bob

[curt.clifton]

I think that Allen's "hard landscape" actions are actually those that must be done on a particular day, rather than before a particular day. That said, I've been putting those actions in OF with both a start and due date set. After my morning review, I start my day working in Context view, grouped by Due, sorted by Due, and filtered by available. Once I've taken care of everything due today, then I might change to a different filter (for example, working on important actions by filtering for flagged actions).

The challenge for me is that when things are hectic, I often don't get through the urgent tasks. Then I'm tempted to add artificial due dates to items so they show up. But that puts me back in the old pre-GTD days of worrying about all the tasks on my list and bumping them forward day after day. I guess the message is, use due dates careful. They're powerful, but can "lead us into temptation".

[brianogilvie]

A calendar (acc. to DA/GTD) is a place to store your hard landscape items. Then you have your other stuff to get done. OF provides a due date, and I use that instead of placing items that need to get done by a date on a date in my Calendar, with no specific time. I like having them in my action list. I also want to be able to (using a Perspective), in Project mode, see everything with due dates (but none without) so I can attend to those important things. At least it's available in context view.

Yep, that's how GTD should work. The program is designed, though, to have you do things in the Context mode, not the Project mode. That's for planning. (OmniFocus follows Kinkless GTD in this respect, as in many others.) I try to avoid Project mode except at the beginning and the end of the day, and during my inbox-clearing time, because otherwise it encourages overplanning. I work in Context mode, because in that mode, I am insulated from the siren song that calls out, "plan, don't do--doing is harder than planning!"

Flagging is also great. I try to flag only things that need my immediate attention, and to clear flags at the end of each day if they're no longer relevant, while flagging things that need my attention the next day. I've taken a cue from Leo Babauta at Zen Habits (http://zenhabits.net/) and started to identify, each evening (or morning, if I don't do it in the evening), the three Most Important Things to get done the next day. I flag those; once I've gotten them done (or done all I can that day), I'll look over the rest of my context list.

[ext555]

Oh yes and I give into that temptation way too often !!

[omnibob]

The program is designed, though, to have you do things in the Context mode, not the Project mode. That's for planning.

I will try devoting more time to using the Context mode for doing and see how it goes. I have one role (job) where 95% of my work is @computer, so the context mode seems less useful to me. There are more demands on me to complete projects, which is why I would like to have a Project Mode Perspective to see items filtered and sorted by due groups, and secondarily by project. I think that way part of the time. And OF does that already, except that the non-due items are seen as well. I now see that in Context Mode, when sorting and filtering by date, that Actions are (or can be) sorted by Project, which is most of what I've been suggesting for in the Project Mode -- it just doesn't have the horizontal Project separator bar to give the Actions even more visual separation (by Project). Probably not a big deal for most ppl.

I don't know if the OG is explicitly not allowing that capacity or not; you may be right that they are. I may be in a tiny minority. Anyway I've given enough of my opinion/reasoning, and like I say, I'll see how working in Context mode feels.

... the three Most Important Things to get done the next day. I flag those; once I've gotten them done (or done all I can that day), I'll look over the rest of my context list.

I love that. I'm really starting to change my thinking to go that route. Get important stuff done, feel good about it, don't feel bad about all the stuff you didn't do. And if you have more time/energy, just go back to your lists.

Timothy Ferriss <http://www.4hourworkweek.com/> describes writing the 2-3 things he wants to get done in day on an 8-1/2" x 11" piece of paper. He then folds that three times so it fits in his pocket. I'm just now trying a hybrid approach where I filter by due date or flagged items in Context Mode, select all, copy, paste to a text window (I suppose I could just print from OF), and print that short list. (This is for when I'm away from my computer.)

Bob

[dhm2006]

I now see that in Context Mode, when sorting and filtering by date, that Actions are (or can be) sorted by Project, which is most of what I've been suggesting for in the Project Mode -- it just doesn't have the horizontal Project separator bar to give the Actions even more visual separation (by Project). Probably not a big deal for most ppl.
Bob

If I *group* by project in context mode (as opposed to *sort*), I get a horizontal project separator bar. Is that what you want, or did I misunderstand?

[omnibob]

If I *group* by project in context mode (as opposed to *sort*), I get a horizontal project separator bar. Is that what you want, or did I misunderstand?

In Context Mode I had: Due; Due; Remaining; Any; All.

If I switch to: Project; Due; Remaining; Any; All. ... then the horizontal project separator bar appears, but I see Actions that are not due. Thanks.

Bob

[dhm2006]

In Context Mode I had: Due; Due; Remaining; Any; All.

If I switch to: Project; Due; Remaining; Any; All. ... then the horizontal project separator bar appears, but I see Actions that are not due. Thanks.

Bob

Due only shows up on the group button ist and the sort button list. I don't think either of those buttons actually filter in the sense of omitting actions from view, do they?

You mentioned having due as an option on one of the filter buttons lists in post #11:

That explains it (although in Project view, if you mean view bar as including all five 'selectors', choosing Flagged does filter out all non-flagged items). If Due were a choice in that selector, I imagine I could get what I'm after.

I think that would be a great feature, if it isn't too difficult to include. I think a lot of people would like to filter on the start date and the due date.

[eronel]

What I would like is for child tasks without explicit due dates to show the parent's due date in context view, perhaps in a lighter shade.

It would be nice, though, if the UI displayed the due (or start) date inherited from the project or action group.

I would like to add my vote for this feature as well. I am in grad school and have many readings to track each week. I love the fact that when I'm planning in OF I can assign a due date to the parent task for each of the individual reading tasks for a single class. But when I'm in context view, exactly which readings are due when is not displayed because the date is inherited.

I'd like to see the inherited due (and start) dates indicated somehow, perhaps similar to how the inherited flag state is indicated.

Lenore