OmniFocus needs to pester more

[iancjclarke]

I just sent this feedback, I thought maybe people might be interested in discussing it too:

This is going to be vague, but I hope it will be useful because I think this barrier for adoption of OmniFocus for me, will also apply to many other users.

I've been trying to use OmniFocus as part of my general workflow since I received an invite months ago, and I just can't.

I've thought hard about why this is, since rationally OmniFocus is almost everything I always wanted in a GTD app.

Despite having the option of using OmniFocus, when I need to make sure I do something, I find myself either setting an appointment at a vaguely suitable time in Google Calendar (my calendaring solution of choice, which will email, SMS, and/or pop up a notification), or sending myself an email and refusing to read it until I've completed the task.

I think the basic issue is that I don't trust myself to poll OmniFocus frequently enough to ensure that I complete a given task. Sure, once OmniFocus is already part of my daily routine, this isn't an issue, but its a serious inhibitor to the initial trust required to make OmniFocus a part of my daily routine.

I therefore tend to fall back on far from perfect mechanisms that either prod me (Google Cal), or which I do poll on a very regular basis (email).

I would urge you to think about how to make OmniFocus better at nagging the user to perform outstanding tasks, even if OmniFocus isn't necessarily running, or if the user keeps it minimized. Until I can put a task into OmniFocus, and *know* that I will be pestered in a reasonably effective way until I have completed the task, its never going to become my primary repository for outstanding tasks.

I know OmniFocus has some kind of review process for tasks, but frankly I don't understand it, and if I don't, many other users probably don't either - since I'm no idiot.

I hope you take this feedback in the sense I intend it, I would love for OmniFocus to be a part of my daily routine, I just can't see this happening until I can trust it to pester me to "get things done". This may be achievable with scripting, or with configuration, but something so fundamental should be easier to achieve than that.

[brianogilvie]

As a counterpoint, let me set out the reasons why OmniFocus should not nag us to get things done.

The habit of regularly reviewing action and project lists is essential to GTD. Anything that can only be done on a given day, or at a given time, goes into the calendar as "hard landscape." Other tasks or projects may have a deadline (due date) but can be done any time before that date.

Since GTD emphasizes capturing your open loops, rather than depending on your memory to capture them, you might well end up with a whole lot of them. I have over 50 active projects in OmniFocus, some with fixed due dates, others without. If each of these projects nagged me to get something done, I'd spend a lot of time being interrupted by nags instead of concentrating on getting something done.

It's better, I think, to deliberately focus on acquiring the review habit. Every day I aim to spend the last half-hour of my day reviewing: I review my actions by due date and flag those that need to get done. I then review projects and flag anything that needs my attention because otherwise it will become urgent (since it's best to work on things before they're urgent!). The next day I look at flagged items and determine what I need to do and where (or with which tools). Once those are out of the way, I can use my context lists to decide what to do next, filtering by available time if it's limited.

If something absolutely has to get done, I can set a QuickSilver or iCal reminder for it. But the review habit is crucial.

Thoughts?

[iancjclarke]

Thanks for the response.

An important rule for designing consumer apps: Build your app for how people actually behave, not for how you think they should behave.

A corollary to this rule is that, except for very rare exceptions, any application which relies on users changing their behavior (or "acquiring" a "habit") is doomed, regardless of its other merits.

I have the time and inclination to poll one app and one app only, and that is email. Even then I rely on it to notify me when there is something new. I'm simply not going to poll OmniFocus, why should I need to remember to consult it, when it can so easily remind me of when things need to happen?

I'm not suggesting that these notifications can't be turned off by people who don't want them, but they should definitely be available to those that do.

If Omni is only interested in selling OF to loyal acolytes of the GTD doctrine, then they should listen to you and ignore me. If they are interested in selling to the rest of us, they should consider my experience, because I don't think I'm an isolated case.

[filmgeek]

ian, I'm going to agree with brian on this.

I think it has to do with a misunderstanding of GTD vs. what you'd like the software to do. And I get that - you've seen how good the other Omni Software is, and you're ready to look at this, and add it to your collections of purchases from Omni. Bonus, you're trying to accomplish stuff, and you'd like to see Omni succeed.

But, I think you're looking for Nag software, not GTD software. And OF isn't just GTD, its essentially "David Allen's Getting Things Done."

Omni is trying to hit a solid GTD product, and not necessarily an 'everyone product' (at least through 1.0.) Why? There isn't a solid GTD product on the market (and believe me, I've tried all of them)

The mantra of GTD is: the only thing that truly belongs on your calendar is stuff you have to get done at that moment.

GTD depends on you to decide what's the best thing to do. Goof off? Sure. Software that's intrusive, that keeps throwing you Alarms, isn't helping you get things done, it's being big brother. "Are you working yet? Are you working now?"

I'll throw my suggestion at you: I use 3-2-1 (a countdown widget) and have it set to 10 min. I try to work on a single project for ten minutes. Even if I'm goofing off, at the ten minute mark, it chimes in; and I have to make the decision - do I want to continue goofing off?

I take a short break and take a look at my context(s), to see what the next best thing I could be doing. I have two windows all the time open: my flagged (of every context) and the actual context I'm at.

It's the idea of focus on one thing, work at it, review and again, see if it's the best thing you should be doing.

[jasong]

Imagine if Blacktree had made an app for how people actually behaved, and didn't create Quicksilver, which requires you to rethink how you interact with your computer.

There are a few tools and workflows you can use in email to make it a capture-and-act tool. Mail Act On and Mail Tags are two I use and recommend. It's certainly possible to build a good workflow around mail.

GTD requires a certain level of commitment, one I'm still struggling to make. I don't do my reviews as regularly as I should, for example, and I don't always get my various inboxes to zero. But I'm working on it. I don't want a tool that nags me to do something at a certain time. There's just no way for it to know that “now” is a good time to bug me. If I'm not in a place where I can work on that particular project, being nagged about it doesn't move anything forward, and causes stress. One major point of GTD is to eliminate stress.

The Omnigang has stated that their goal is to make a great GTD application that can be used by non-GTD adherents, and will add features that are not strictly GTD; when a feature directly conflicts with GTD canon, GTD will win out. I think nagging directly contradicts GTD canon.

OmniFocus will do rather well in the market for those looking for a tool to help them implement GTD, as well as those willing to adjust a little to what OmniFocus can do for them outside of strict GTD. Many people will come looking for OmniFocus because they are interested in GTD; others because it scratches a particular organizational itch; the rest will either use it or use something else. You can't get 100% of a market, and anyone who tries is doomed to failure (or being legally deemed a monopoly).

[Frosty Crunch]

I resisted any tech implementations of GTD until now because fooling around with software and hardware was the cause of much of my wasted time. It's fun, and I didn't do other things I should be doing. I only broke down and tried out OmniFocus because it's from Omni, and OmniOutliner is an application I use a lot.

So up until now, I've been a folder and label GTD guy. I think OmniFocus is simply implementing GTD as it was intended to be. With the low-tech system, you have to check your folders everyday. No difference with OmniFocus. You need to do something like make a Perspective in Contexts with Sort:Due, put it in the Menu, and click it everyday.

[al_f]

An important rule for designing consumer apps: Build your app for how people actually behave, not for how you think they should behave.

Omni are doing this - it's just that the customers they're aiming at are people who are implementing Getting Things Done and want an app to support that. It's common sense that OF won't suit everyone's workflow: we're all different, which is why there are so many task-management apps about!

[ksrhee]

I think I suggested a solution elsewhere, but here we go again.

For me, the simplest solution is for OF to assign alarms to each task that can be passed onto iCal when we synchronize OF with iCal.

In other words, alarms will go off in iCal, but not in OF (thus not violating the sanctity of GTD, which I think should be viewed as a tool, not a unbreakable rule), but folks who need reminders (for those of us who manage multiple projects, tasks, and roles in our lives) will still get reminders.

Seems like a win-win solution to me.

[Chris]

I just want to point out that there are different levels of "nagging." I certainly don't want OF popping up alarms and stuff regularly. However, suppose, if OF is running, it showed a badge on its icon in the dock that showed the number of due-today and past-due actions, similar to the way Mail shows the number of unread messages in the inbox? That would be a simple way to prod people like the OP to check OF on a regular basis.

[jasong]

I think showing actions-due-today/past-due actions as a badge could work, as long as it wasn't always there (i.e., a dreaded preference). I say this because when I can actively complete the items enumerated (e.g. I have 50 emails), I know I can *act* on those in some reasonable timeframe.

When those numbers represent things I can't complete (even though I *should*), I just get stressed. Journler has a feature where you can show or hide the badges for number of items in a folder; I turn it off because I knowing I have 20 items in my "Stuff to Buy" wishlist isn't useful to me.

(I wish Journler actually allowed the badge on a per-folder basis, and if Omni considers this, they do it per-folder.)

[iancjclarke]

I'm not going to get into a debate over what is and isn't consistent with the method described in the GTD book. Omni themselves have said that while OF can be used to implement GTD, it is supposed to be flexible enough to accommodate different styles of personal organization. Thus, the various "appeal to authority" arguments presented here are a red herring.

My hope is that Omni's goal is to build a useful application first and foremost, perhaps using GTD as inspiration, but not an end in itself.

I'm not demanding that Omni impose some form of notification system on those that don't want it, rather that they make the functionality available to those that do (and I suspect there will be a lot of people like that).

Ignoring GTD doctrine, and just looking at reality: isn't it better to be proactively reminded of what you need to do, rather than having to remember to check an application on a regular basis?
I've tried in vein to make OF part of my workflow, but its a chicken and egg problem right now. OF is not going to be part of my workflow unless I can put tasks into OmniFocus and know that its not going to let me forget about them, as it does now.

[al_f]

Not trying to be funny, but if you didn't want a debate why put up your original post?

In reality, no task management app is going to think for you: you're still going to need to check it as often as you need to in order to feel comfortable with your choices about what you're doing.

[jasong]

Ignoring GTD doctrine, and just looking at reality: isn't it better to be proactively reminded of what you need to do, rather than having to remember to check an application on a regular basis?
I've tried in vein to make OF part of my workflow, but its a chicken and egg problem right now. OF is not going to be part of my workflow unless I can put tasks into OmniFocus and know that its not going to let me forget about them, as it does now.

Heh. Indeed, that is ignoring GTD doctrine!

I hate being "reminded" of what I "need to do" because there's no way any piece of software can know what I "need to" or even "can" do at any particular time. GTD, and by extension, OmniFocus, it meant as a capture-and-review process and tool. To get constant reminders is against the very principal of GTD (except for items with real dates and times associated with them, like going to the doctor or the opera): you're supposed to check it regularly (as regularly as you find it necessary to not drop your open loops).

That said, adding a nag factor to OF is probably not difficult. It already has some in it: you can sync your calendars and have iCal nag you appropriately. Maybe they'll add a mechanism to fire off scripts at particular times.

Perhaps as a start they can add notifications when an item becomes "active" after being in "pending" state.

Are there other times when you want notifications?

[iancjclarke]

Not trying to be funny, but if you didn't want a debate why put up your original post?

I didn't say I didn't want a debate, I said I didn't want to debate whether or not a particular feature was compatible with GTD doctrine. I'm not interested in GTD doctrine, I'm interested in having a useful piece of software.

[jasong]

I'm not interested in GTD doctrine, I'm interested in having a useful piece of software.

You may not mean it like this, Ian, but that's like asking BMW to make their car look and work more like a Mercedes, because you're not interested in "BMW culture". It reads to me like a fine bit of flame-bait on this particular forum.

I understand your desire for a useful piece of software. Many of us have been hoping someone with a reputation for quality like Omni would come along and create this particular tool. Asking for features that are compatible with but not canonical GTD is perfectly understandable, but please realize that this tool is being used and embraced by proponents of GTD.

[pjb]

If, when clearing the Inbox or doing a review, I come across something that needs to move to the hard landscape calendar where it must get done by or at a certain time and for which I may be grateful for a pestering reminder (email, or SMS even better) then a slick way to move a Task out of OF with a date, time, and alarm interval would be very welcome. Perhaps because OF doesn't have that facility, some feel OF should be the calendar/messenger, too.

[kickaha]

Perhaps I've missed it, but the only auto-reminder I actually *do* want, is a review. ie, set actions/projects to be auto-reviewed every Monday by default, and Monday *boom* I get a Review Me sheet that I can just quickly glance at, and if the status quo is good, I can just OK it, or dive in and alter things. Or if a project status needs to be reviewed every month, I can set that, and on the 1st, up that list pops. etc.

As it is, I'm forgetting to review. Maybe I need to add actions for "Review list A", etc. :\

[al_f]

I'm not interested in GTD doctrine, I'm interested in having a useful piece of software.

I'd argue that those two things aren't incompatible, if your target market for the software is people who use GTD.

To extend Jason's analogy, what you want is for Nike to add features to their football boots to make them suitable for playing golf in as well, because you want to play golf in football boots. However, that makes no sense for Nike, because their core market for that product is people who play football. Also, playing golf in football boots may be possible, but they're not the best tool for the job. See what I mean?

[ksrhee]

I'd argue that those two things aren't incompatible, if your target market for the software is people who use GTD.

To extend Jason's analogy, what you want is for Nike to add features to their football boots to make them suitable for playing golf in as well, because you want to play golf in football boots. However, that makes no sense for Nike, because their core market for that product is people who play football. Also, playing golf in football boots may be possible, but they're not the best tool for the job. See what I mean?

I think this line of analogy is rather fallacious. You are assuming the folks have different purpose or direction for using OF, such as football and golf are. I believe we all want to use OF to help us guide and manage our lives so that we can accomplish things that we truly want in our lives. As such, OF or GTD is just a tool (means) to accomplish that end.

I think more people get zealous or become fanatical over a tool, we often get these two confused.

I think OF can serve multiple constituents who have a similar if not the same purpose/goal in mind.

[dhm2006]

To extend Jason's analogy, what you want is for Nike to add features to their football boots to make them suitable for playing golf in as well, because you want to play golf in football boots. However, that makes no sense for Nike, because their core market for that product is people who play football. Also, playing golf in football boots may be possible, but they're not the best tool for the job.

I think this line of analogy is rather fallacious. You are assuming the folks have different purpose or direction for using OF, such as football and golf are. I believe we all want to use OF to help us guide and manage our lives so that we can accomplish things that we truly want in our lives. As such, OF or GTD is just a tool (means) to accomplish that end.


Then think of it as the difference between a putter and a driver. Both are designed to get the ball in the hole in the same game, but each do it differently.

OF was originally based on Kinkless GTD. I like it being essentially a GTD tool rather than some other kind of productivity tool because I like the principles behind GTD. GTD is not just about getting things done, but about getting things done in a stress-free manner.

[ksrhee]

Then think of it as the difference between a putter and a driver. Both are designed to get the ball in the hole in the same game, but each do it differently.

OF was originally based on Kinkless GTD. I like it being essentially a GTD tool rather than some other kind of productivity tool because I like the principles behind GTD. GTD is not just about getting things done, but about getting things done in a stress-free manner.

Yes, OF is based on Kinkless GTD, but my understanding from folks at Omni, is that they want to make the product that will be help people focus on doing the rights things at right times. Given that, even though the core is based on the GTD concepts, the program can be broader in its implementation. If folks at Omni thinks I'm wrong, let me know, and I'll be corrected, and some folks who want something more and different can seek their solutions at elsewhere.

As far as your analogy is concerned, if you ever played golf, you would never dream of playing the game with just a putter or a driver since you would not be able to perform very well. The golf bag consists of multiple clubs that have their own unique use. In other words, OF can have multiple features that could appeal to some people or not others. As long as these features are non-intrusive, I am more for having more clubs in my bag than just carrying either putter or driver.

[dhm2006]

As far as your analogy is concerned, if you ever played golf, you would never dream of playing the game with just a putter or a driver since you would not be able to perform very well. The golf bag consists of multiple clubs that have their own unique use. In other words, OF can have multiple features that could appeal to some people or not others. As long as these features are non-intrusive, I am more for having more clubs in my bag than just carrying either putter or driver.

Yes, you are right. I reflected on just that point after I posted, but I wasn't near my computer to correct my analogy. I have played golf and, like golf, productivity requires a bagful of several different tools to make it work well.

[jasong]

Yes, you are right. I reflected on just that point after I posted, but I wasn't near my computer to correct my analogy. I have played golf and, like golf, productivity requires a bagful of several different tools to make it work well.

And, to extend this crazy metaphor even more, those "different tools" are in fact, different: you don't generally use a driver when you should use a putter, nor do you don't see combination putter/drivers.

You choose the right tool for the right situation.

I'm not saying the original goal of more pestering is *bad*, or that OmniFocus should *only* implement canonical GTD (in part because GTD is way to fluid to do that).

Instead, it's important to realize that GTD requires certain features in a software implementation, and other methods of getting things done (lowercase) will require different features, and that at some point, those feature sets might diverge.

Creating applications is tough, as many people on this forum probably know from personal experience. It's particularly tough to please everyone with one application, and developers who do end up with difficult to use applications which no one wants to use.

Focus and simplicity.

[Ken Case]

I would urge you to think about how to make OmniFocus better at nagging the user to perform outstanding tasks, even if OmniFocus isn't necessarily running, or if the user keeps it minimized. Until I can put a task into OmniFocus, and *know* that I will be pestered in a reasonably effective way until I have completed the task, its never going to become my primary repository for outstanding tasks.

Which actions are you wanting OmniFocus to notify you about, and when?

For example, are you wishing OmniFocus would show some sort of count of available actions in the menu bar at all times (near the clock)? Red when some are overdue? Perhaps with a drop-down menu that showed a count of the actions in each of your active contexts, which would take you to that context when selected?

Just some ideas…

[curt.clifton]

Perhaps I've missed it, but the only auto-reminder I actually *do* want, is a review. ie, set actions/projects to be auto-reviewed every Monday by default, and Monday *boom* I get a Review Me sheet that I can just quickly glance at, and if the status quo is good, I can just OK it, or dive in and alter things. Or if a project status needs to be reviewed every month, I can set that, and on the 1st, up that list pops. etc.

As it is, I'm forgetting to review. Maybe I need to add actions for "Review list A", etc. :\

I have a daily review checklist in OmniOutliner. It includes a step to "Review active projects due for review today". I have a perspective saved in OmniFocus for that review. As the OF URL scheme develops, I'll be able to put a URL in my checklist in OmniOutliner. Then a single click will switch OF to the right view.

As to the topic of the thread, there certainly are a variety of notification techniques that would be useful and unobtrusive. For example, I would love to see action count badges on contexts in the sidebar. That's not in-my-face and would be useful information when deciding what context to put myself in.

I think there are perhaps a couple of reasons why some people react strongly to the suggestion that OF include more intrusive reminders. One is a reaction against a perceived violation of GTD orthodoxy, though I think that's likely not the main reason. I suspect the main reason some of us react strongly is that intrusive reminders would be an "attractive nuisance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attractive_nuisance_doctrine)". They might lead us back into bad habits that we've been fighting to get out of. From the point of view, even optional features can seem threatening.

[jasong]

Perhaps I've missed it, but the only auto-reminder I actually *do* want, is a review. ie, set actions/projects to be auto-reviewed every Monday by default, and Monday *boom* I get a Review Me sheet that I can just quickly glance at, and if the status quo is good, I can just OK it, or dive in and alter things. Or if a project status needs to be reviewed every month, I can set that, and on the 1st, up that list pops. etc.

As it is, I'm forgetting to review. Maybe I need to add actions for "Review list A", etc. :\

How about creating an iCal repeating entry? I have one of those that pops up every Sunday evening, and since I sync to my iPhone, it pops up there too.

Since you can call an AppleScript from an iCal alarm, you can even have it open a Review perspective for you, e.g. (if you had a perspective named "Review" saved):


tell application "OmniFocus"
tell default document
make new document window with properties {perspective name:"Review"} at end of document windows
end tell
end tell

(This comes from OmniGroup's release notes a few builds back.)

[ksrhee]

Which actions are you wanting OmniFocus to notify you about, and when?

For example, are you wishing OmniFocus would show some sort of count of available actions in the menu bar at all times (near the clock)? Red when some are overdue? Perhaps with a drop-down menu that showed a count of the actions in each of your active contexts, which would take you to that context when selected?

Just some ideas…

Thanks. I don't think OF needs to build another nagging feature. Just pass the alarm setting back to iCal, and let iCal trigger the alarm. So, I could set an item in OF to trigger an alarm, but iCal does the triggering. Since iCal alarm typically runs in the background, I think this is a better and/or more elegant solution.

I would like however see a counter badge or numerical symbol next to projects/contexts so that I can see how many actions are assigned to a project or context. This also tells me which project/context does not have any action items assigned as well.

Thanks.

[lossius]

Personally I feel that a view based on e.g. due dates would be sufficient, so that content can be reviewd not only on bases of projects or context, but also on due dates. And playing around with the app while reading this thread I indeed find that this is possible using the view bar. I'll keep playing around with this. Hopefully it can function as a kind of 43 folders approach to stuff scheduled for review in the future.

[dhm2006]

How about creating an iCal repeating entry?

Since you can call an AppleScript from an iCal alarm, you can even have it open a Review perspective for you, e.g. (if you had a perspective named "Review" saved):


Thanks for pointing that out. I am going to try that.

[jdh]

Thanks. I don't think OF needs to build another nagging feature. Just pass the alarm setting back to iCal, and let iCal trigger the alarm. So, I could set an item in OF to trigger an alarm, but iCal does the triggering. Since iCal alarm typically runs in the background, I think this is a better and/or more elegant solution.
This is really all that I think that OF would need to provide for me to be satisfied with it.

The issue for me is all of the things that occasionally need to be done when I actually AM on the go.... With iGTD and other solutions, I would sync my @Errands and @Calls contexts to my phone, and some of these would have reminders flagged on them so as not to allow me to forget about them while I was otherwise occupied. Things like "Pick up milk on the way home" for instance, triggered to fire off an alarm on my phone around the time that I expect to be heading home.

These are things that don't necessarily fit into the GTD Hard Landscape, IMHO, and the last thing I really want is a calendar that is cluttered with trivial events such as these... My calendar is for things that occur at more specific times (ie, meetings), and consume specific amounts of time.

Reminders when I'm in front of my computer are generally less relevant, although I could see the use for these in some cases.

The iCal solution at this point works the best for me, but since OF doesn't actually support setting of alarms within the OF application itself, I end up having to go through a secondary review process of the iCal items following a sync to do something that should have been easily done during my main daily/weekly review process.

On the other hand, my reviews themselves have always been iCal appointments, even when I was using a more paper-based system. In this case I want to actually block out that section of time for my weekly review. I normally expect it to take a half-hour, so I schedule it as such, occasionally moving it around when necessary... By having it in my calendar, however, I ensure that the appropriate amount of time is allocated to actually make it happen. Further, my colleagues (who have limited access to my calendar), see a block of occupied time and do not expect me to be available.

[LizPf]

As far as a program that nags you with e-mail, check out Sandy [iwantsandy.com].

Sandy is in it's infant stages. As it stands now, you send Sandy e-mail with something you want to either remember or be reminded of ["Sandy, remind me to take out the trash Thursdays at 7 pm"], and Sandy gets back to you with an e-mail every Thursday evening.

As far as OF nagging, I created a Perspective that has just the actions I need to know about, and leave it open all the time.

Right now it's lacking 2 way calendar support ... and I'd love to see away for it to pick up specially tagged OF actions — not everything, just those actions I choose.

[CatOne]

I just sent this feedback, I thought maybe people might be interested in discussing it too:

This is going to be vague, but I hope it will be useful because I think this barrier for adoption of OmniFocus for me, will also apply to many other users.

I've been trying to use OmniFocus as part of my general workflow since I received an invite months ago, and I just can't.

I've thought hard about why this is, since rationally OmniFocus is almost everything I always wanted in a GTD app.

Despite having the option of using OmniFocus, when I need to make sure I do something, I find myself either setting an appointment at a vaguely suitable time in Google Calendar (my calendaring solution of choice, which will email, SMS, and/or pop up a notification), or sending myself an email and refusing to read it until I've completed the task.

I think the basic issue is that I don't trust myself to poll OmniFocus frequently enough to ensure that I complete a given task. Sure, once OmniFocus is already part of my daily routine, this isn't an issue, but its a serious inhibitor to the initial trust required to make OmniFocus a part of my daily routine.

I therefore tend to fall back on far from perfect mechanisms that either prod me (Google Cal), or which I do poll on a very regular basis (email).

I would urge you to think about how to make OmniFocus better at nagging the user to perform outstanding tasks, even if OmniFocus isn't necessarily running, or if the user keeps it minimized. Until I can put a task into OmniFocus, and *know* that I will be pestered in a reasonably effective way until I have completed the task, its never going to become my primary repository for outstanding tasks.

I know OmniFocus has some kind of review process for tasks, but frankly I don't understand it, and if I don't, many other users probably don't either - since I'm no idiot.

I hope you take this feedback in the sense I intend it, I would love for OmniFocus to be a part of my daily routine, I just can't see this happening until I can trust it to pester me to "get things done". This may be achievable with scripting, or with configuration, but something so fundamental should be easier to achieve than that.

Yuck. You the kind of person that sets the alarm for 6:00 when you REALLY won't get up until 7:30 and you slap the snooze bar for 90 minutes every morning?

[wbauer]

I think I suggested a solution elsewhere, but here we go again.

For me, the simplest solution is for OF to assign alarms to each task that can be passed onto iCal when we synchronize OF with iCal.

In other words, alarms will go off in iCal, but not in OF (thus not violating the sanctity of GTD, which I think should be viewed as a tool, not a unbreakable rule), but folks who need reminders (for those of us who manage multiple projects, tasks, and roles in our lives) will still get reminders.

Seems like a win-win solution to me.
I also would like reminders for certain events (not all), and think that ksrhee's suggestion makes a great deal of sense.

[jackl73]

I just sent this feedback, I thought maybe people might be interested in discussing it too:

This is going to be vague, but I hope it will be useful because I think this barrier for adoption of OmniFocus for me, will also apply to many other users.

I've been trying to use OmniFocus as part of my general workflow since I received an invite months ago, and I just can't.

I've thought hard about why this is, since rationally OmniFocus is almost everything I always wanted in a GTD app.

Despite having the option of using OmniFocus, when I need to make sure I do something, I find myself either setting an appointment at a vaguely suitable time in Google Calendar (my calendaring solution of choice, which will email, SMS, and/or pop up a notification), or sending myself an email and refusing to read it until I've completed the task.

I think the basic issue is that I don't trust myself to poll OmniFocus frequently enough to ensure that I complete a given task. Sure, once OmniFocus is already part of my daily routine, this isn't an issue, but its a serious inhibitor to the initial trust required to make OmniFocus a part of my daily routine.

I therefore tend to fall back on far from perfect mechanisms that either prod me (Google Cal), or which I do poll on a very regular basis (email).

I would urge you to think about how to make OmniFocus better at nagging the user to perform outstanding tasks, even if OmniFocus isn't necessarily running, or if the user keeps it minimized. Until I can put a task into OmniFocus, and *know* that I will be pestered in a reasonably effective way until I have completed the task, its never going to become my primary repository for outstanding tasks.

I know OmniFocus has some kind of review process for tasks, but frankly I don't understand it, and if I don't, many other users probably don't either - since I'm no idiot.

I hope you take this feedback in the sense I intend it, I would love for OmniFocus to be a part of my daily routine, I just can't see this happening until I can trust it to pester me to "get things done". This may be achievable with scripting, or with configuration, but something so fundamental should be easier to achieve than that.

Trying making your Due Dates close, i.e. if it has to be done by end today put today’s date in the Due Column. This action is then highlighted in the Apple menu bar - I have a red blob with a number 5 in it on my screen which means I must complete 5 things before I finish today. I find it quite a pressure. It makes me look at the list.

[andy_g]

I have a suggestion, which is simly to extend the current growl notifications to incude reviews. This could be enabled for those of us that are not hardcore GTD types!

[xmas]

http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=6584

here is a link to the thread for getting Growl set up.

[andy_g]

http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=6584

here is a link to the thread for getting Growl set up.

Thanks- but as far as I can see there is no way to set up growl specifically for notification of reviewing due dates at present, which is what I would like to see-
Andy

[devn]

I will echo the sentiments of previous posters; I am having a hard time using OmniFocus to implement GTD, and the easiest explanation for other people might be "Oh, he just doesn't know what GTD /really/ is, or he is just a lazy idiot who doesn't know how to review tasks, collect properly, etc."

At one point, sometime back, I made the suggestion to have OmniFocus nag me. I look back with a bit of perspective now and realize how wrong I was. However, I know deep inside of me, that something is definitely not working for me with OmniFocus and GTD. At the very least, the lowest level, couldn't OmniFocus include some sort of user-specific project list that revolves around implementing GTD within OmniFocus?

My ideal situation would involve a couple of things:

1. a "GTD" enable/disable option to give me access to a few handy features
i. Am I collecting, organizing, processing, or doing? This is never clear in OmniFocus (unless I'm in the Inbox or a perspective, but this is arguable), and so, no matter how much I've cleaned up my system, no matter how many times I've edited project and action verbs to reflect the best situation for me, no matter how many times I've optimized contexts, I still come back to OmniFocus an hour later and feel like the whole thing is just kind of, well, dirty. When I finish a massive review of my system, I wanna lock it down. There is nothing more frustrating than seeing Inbox items I haven't processed, so I process them, and it changes current projects, which means I need to go in and edit those projects. This perpetually puts me into Collect/Process/Organize while I'm in the application. I spend a lot of time at the computer for work, and having OmniFocus to fiddle with has been more of a distraction than an organizational tool. I'm not sure how you'd implement this, but I'm begging for some cleaner lines between different types of workflow in OmniFocus. I don't care if it's a simple bar with buttons that do nothing but let me set what mode I'm in.

ii. In different contexts (of the application, not user-created contexts) there should be some GTD specific information. Am I doing a brain dump? If so, I want access to a list of memory joggers so I can really get it all to 0. Am I reviewing projects? I would like a similar system for this. Consider it GTD-related documentation on a per-context basis.

iii. The weekly/daily review is so important, and I feel like it has gotten really weak attention from OF. I want OF to hold my hand and walk me through my review. When I set a date for review, I want to be reminded of it. This brings me to:

iv. I think a number of these scenarios could be controlled in an application/user specific project that is dedicated to GTD. Think of it like this: There is an "OmniFocus GTD" project that mines your database data to give you suggestions, reminders, and due dates for OmniFocus GTD-related actions. If I set a weekly review on Sunday, I want my user-tailored OmniFocus project to say: "Weekly Review - Sunday @OmniFocus Due:Sunday @7:00PM". This means it's not a nag, it's just a project. If I have Inbox items that have been sitting there for a week, I want OmniFocus to say: "Process Inbox [Overdue Inbox] - @OmniFocus". Of course, all of this would be configurable via the preference pane, it wouldn't be annoying, and it would be a MAJOR help to people struggling to implement OmniFocus as their GTD system.


All in all, I'm happy with OmniFocus I suppose, but this whole game we've been playing "It's just an organizational tool" vs "It's kind of supposed to be for GTD, sort of" is getting really tired. A ton of users who bought licenses to OmniFocus did it to implement GTD with their digital life as a compliment to their giant paper filing cabinets. The least OmniGroup can do is give them some kind of support in implementation. It's like "Here's this totally ambiguous app, and you can implement GTD however you'd like! Trust us! You can! It's probably not easy, but who knows, we haven't really tried, it's not really for GTD anyway, but umm, er, I dunno? Good luck!" I'm not asking for a life coach, but not everyone has GTD habits the first time they fire this up, and they need some freaking help.

Cheers,
D

[curt.clifton]

devn,

Thanks for your thoughtful post. Lots of interesting ideas there.

I think you actually are asking for a little automated life coach. And I think that's a wonderful idea! Making GTD really work is all about developing a set of habits. An application that would help with that would be great.

Given the power of OmniFocus, somebody should write a book on "Getting Things Done with OmniFocus". I'm imagining a description of best practices, along with modifications that you might want to make for your own circumstances (for example, if all your work is computer based you might not have many different contexts). The end of each chapter could have a checklist that you could review periodically to see where you need to improve your habits. Then a companion application, like you suggested, could mine your OF data and provide you with coaching. The challenge would be keeping the application from nagging you about things when you consciously choose to do it your own way. That's an interesting problem.

[devn]

devn,

Thanks for your thoughtful post. Lots of interesting ideas there.

I think you actually are asking for a little automated life coach. And I think that's a wonderful idea! Making GTD really work is all about developing a set of habits. An application that would help with that would be great.

Given the power of OmniFocus, somebody should write a book on "Getting Things Done with OmniFocus". I'm imagining a description of best practices, along with modifications that you might want to make for your own circumstances (for example, if all your work is computer based you might not have many different contexts). The end of each chapter could have a checklist that you could review periodically to see where you need to improve your habits. Then a companion application, like you suggested, could mine your OF data and provide you with coaching. The challenge would be keeping the application from nagging you about things when you consciously choose to do it your own way. That's an interesting problem.

Yay! I didn't come off as a lazy jerk with a bunch of feature requests!

I think you nailed exactly what I was talking about. We need some way to drill down into this gigantic wealth of information we're inputting into our system, and make it smart. It's a touchy subject because "smart" can mean so many things, but there has to be a few elegant tools that OmniGroup could build into OmniFocus that wouldn't detract from the idea behind the application, while still providing users with something to help them on their quest to GTD mastery. I've actually been thinking about writing that book myself. I don't know if I could get it published, but the blog traffic might be worth it. Anyway, thanks for your comments. Let's keep this discussion friendly and open and try to get /something/ in the words, even if that means parsing exported comma separated OmniFocus databases. I started writing a little application last night, but it's going to be a lonnngggg time coming, so beware.

Also, Curt: I'm not sure if you missed the way I was explaining it or if you were just discussing, in general, the interesting problem of nag vs. the will of the user, but just for clarification: It seems to me keeping the "Life Coach" confined to a sort of "scriptable project", if you will, would achieve the goal in question. I mean, after all, if it's only a project, then a user can most certainly just check it off or delete the task if they don't want to do it or they think it's a bad suggestion. Perhaps bad suggestions could be controlled by doing something similar to a spam filter.

1. You fire up OmniFocus for the first time and you input all of your information, and turn on the GTD preference pane.
2. Over the next few days it starts learning about tasks you avoid, tasks you keep re-evaluating, projects you keep avoiding, and begins sending you some helpful reminders, ideas, etc. based on this to a project called, I don't know "Personal Assistant".
3. You don't like some of the reminders, so you just delete them. It sees you doing this, and remembers you deleted its suggestion for that project, task, etc.
4. You like some of the reminders and you follow them: You click "complete." to show OmniFocus it was helpful. OmniFocus is watching you. ;)
5. Now, reminders and ideas you didn't like are still put into that "Personal Assistant" project, but they are marked automatically as completed, so if you'd like to see what you've been missing, you just change the view to "All", instead of Remaining, Next Actions, etc.
6. You see a good reminder that you think you would like to receive, so you uncheck the complete box, and boom, rule removed.

Note that this is just an example of implementation, but I'd love to hear some different views on this. How would everyone go about implementing a personal assistant in OmniFocus?

All the best,
Devin

[davidfmendes@pobox.com]

This is exactly what I want. Ok, GTD is not about alarms, but maybe I am not such a GTD samurai so I need at least some reminders. This solutions you talk about is the one I need but is there a way to do it from inside OF or I need to switch to Ical everytime?

I think I suggested a solution elsewhere, but here we go again.

For me, the simplest solution is for OF to assign alarms to each task that can be passed onto iCal when we synchronize OF with iCal.

In other words, alarms will go off in iCal, but not in OF (thus not violating the sanctity of GTD, which I think should be viewed as a tool, not a unbreakable rule), but folks who need reminders (for those of us who manage multiple projects, tasks, and roles in our lives) will still get reminders.

Seems like a win-win solution to me.

[abh19]

I think the best thing for people who aren't yet into the habit of GTD (those who need reminders) should set iCal alarms at the times of day you want to, the message saying things like: "Time to empty inbox", or "Time to review projects", etc. Making OF nag is the way to add stress and build habits that are NOT in line with the GTD scheme, at least that's how I see it.

[Frosty Crunch]

"An important rule for designing consumer apps: Build your app for how people actually behave, not for how you think they should behave."

OmniFocus is not designed for people. It's designed for people who use GTD. It mimics how people who use GTD actually behave.

[Lightstorm]

I haven't read this entire thread, but here's my short 2 cents.

I've always viewed the calendar as a place to store appointments. Places I have to be at certain times. I've found that using OF lowers my stress level significantly. I used to use a WindowsMobile-based phone in conjunction with Outlook for several years. I had reminders for everything. Alarms going off constantly. Now I don't. I also use an iPhone now as well (complete Mac convert :)

At the present time, I don't need reminders for much, not because I've gotten better at remembering, but because I've viewed those things I used to set alarms for as being low importance that, if they didn't get done today, the world wouldn't end. Most of the time, hey, we know when certain things MUST get done. I'm not talking about taking out the trash, or sweeping the floor. Those things become habits and if you're setting alarms for them, you're trying to organize your life a little TOO much in my opinion.

So instead of filling up iCal with a bunch of reminders and appointments, I've created a context of '1st priority' in OF. So, I have MAYBE 5 things total, a mix of both personal and career, that are in this context. I never try to bite off more than I can chew. These are things that HAVE to get done today (not things I WANT to get done). Let's face it, we all want to get a lot done, that's the purpose of GTD. But I'm glad I now have time to do more spur of the moment things (XBOX, watch a movie with the fam, relaxing things) and don't feel like I have so much 'stuff' to do. Once those 1st Priority things are done, I move on to the other stuff, viewing it either in a context- or project-perspective, or if there's not much time left in the day, I do something I enjoy.

It works for me.

I also use the OF to Toodledo script (http://groups.google.com/group/oftd), and have the iPhone-optimized version of Toodledo up on my work Windows machine all the time, with the 1st priority context as my view. This constantly reminds me of WHAT needs to get done TODAY, before I move on to other stuff. Without using nagging reminders. :)

Again, just my thoughts. Hope this helps someone.

-Marc

[Lightstorm]

Sorry, that was supposed to be a 'short' 2 cents, but I went a little overboard. :)

[yucca]

That was a nice post, Lightstorm. It clearly illustrates how an informed decision to deviate from GTD dogma can have beneficial results.

[knight777]

I haven't read this extremely lengthy thread but I must say I agree with the original poster and here's why.

Part of GTD is setting concrete appointments. That means a basic calendar/reminder system should be included in a GTD app.

The whole point of GTD app, for me, is to have one app that I use to organize my life.

All this hassle with spotty iCal syncing and growl or whatnot all because OF doesn't include what is an essential part of GTD, a calendar.

Here's hoping 1.5 or 2.0 includes what is an essential part of the system so I don't have to rely on multiple applications to stay organized.

[Toadling]

Part of GTD is setting concrete appointments. That means a basic calendar/reminder system should be included in a GTD app.

The whole point of GTD app, for me, is to have one app that I use to organize my life.

All this hassle with spotty iCal syncing and growl or whatnot all because OF doesn't include what is an essential part of GTD, a calendar.

Here's hoping 1.5 or 2.0 includes what is an essential part of the system so I don't have to rely on multiple applications to stay organized.

You may be right, but the real problem with Omni Group developing their own calendar app, or building calendaring functionality directly into OmniFocus, is getting buy-in from any significant number of Mac users. For better or worse, I really think Apple already has the Mac calendaring market tied up (except maybe for a portion of corporate users using Entourage). Any new player, even one as good as Omni Group, is going to have a steep, uphill battle against some very good, entrenched, powerhouse competitors.

And, despite minor quibbles, iCal is actually pretty good: it's nicely integrated into the system, syncs with .Mac and iPhone/iPod, supports open standards like CalDav, and probably satisfies the needs of 80-90% of the user base.

Are there many people who would opt for an OmniCalendar over iCal or find any real value in a built-in OmniFocus calendar? If not, why should Omni Group "reinvent the wheel?" Are there more cost-effective time investments for Omni Group's limited resources?

OTOH, OmniWeb seems to be doing pretty well these days. Is there a Webkit-like framework for calendaring? That would probably make things a lot easier.

[alexius]

In another thread I suggested a sort-of 'OmniFocus HUD'. I got a couple helpful replies, essentially suggesting specific perspectives, but these still miss my point.

Instead of 'pestering', I think it would be useful to have a HUD-type window which can float in, say, the corner of your screen. While my reason for this is to be able to quickly drill through dozens of e-mails without switching back and forth between OF and Mail, I think it can also be useful as a sort of reminder window.

Growl is useless to me as a reminder system, I think this would be a nice compromise.

[brianogilvie]

Some folks have been using Anxiety (http://www.anxietyapp.com/) as a HUD for OmniFocus.

[alexius]

Some folks have been using Anxiety (http://www.anxietyapp.com/) as a HUD for OmniFocus.

Thanks for the suggestion -- I've tried that but would much rather have direct access to OF. I find that my iCal calendars and OF contexts don't quite work together well for this purpose, and also I'd prefer to be working right with OF rather than having to repeatedly sync with iCal when using this method.

Just in case, I will give Anxiety another shot.

[iNik]

Just to add a me-too to the nagging OmniFocus idea. I posted this elsewhere, but here it is again:

I would really like it if OmniFocus' dated tasks were treated like calendar items with proper reminders. OmniFocus is the one and only place I put stuff I need to remember to do, and popping up an easily-ignored and quickly fading Growl notification just doesn't cut it at all. If something's due, I want OmniFocus to ensure I notice so I don't miss my deadline!

DING DING DING DING DING!
Time to Make the Donuts! Wakey Wakey!
DING DING DING DING DING!

Then have the usual array of snooze/reset the due date/whatever.

Having it work like Entourage wouldn't be bad at all. Put up a list of reminders that I can one-by-one reschedule and deal with -- maybe even have the list appear in something not-unlike the Quick Entry window for easy editing.

[Lightstorm]

Just to add a me-too to the nagging OmniFocus idea. I posted this elsewhere, but here it is again:

I would really like it if OmniFocus' dated tasks were treated like calendar items with proper reminders. OmniFocus is the one and only place I put stuff I need to remember to do, and popping up an easily-ignored and quickly fading Growl notification just doesn't cut it at all. If something's due, I want OmniFocus to ensure I notice so I don't miss my deadline!

DING DING DING DING DING!
Time to Make the Donuts! Wakey Wakey!
DING DING DING DING DING!

Then have the usual array of snooze/reset the due date/whatever.

Having it work like Entourage wouldn't be bad at all. Put up a list of reminders that I can one-by-one reschedule and deal with -- maybe even have the list appear in something not-unlike the Quick Entry window for easy editing.

I agree, iNik. There's nothing I hate more than a calendar stuffed with reminders of stuff I need to do on particular dates. To me, a calendar should reflect events where you have to BE somewhere at a particular TIME, not reminding me to take out the trash or somethin'!

I get the idea sometimes that people are TOO entrenched in the GTD ways that they can't change the way they think (or do things).

Great idea!

[curt.clifton]

OmniFocus is the one and only place I put stuff I need to remember to do, and popping up an easily-ignored and quickly fading Growl notification just doesn't cut it at all.

This doesn't solve your entire need, but you can configure Growl to leave OmniFocus reminders on the screen instead of fading them out. (Go to the Growl Preference Pane, then the Applications tab. Select OmniFocus and click Configure. Change the Stay on Screen setting to Always.)

In conjunction with this, it's helpful to know that clicking the OF icon in the Growl notification switches to OF and selects the action. Also, option-clicking the close icon in a Growl notification closes all the notifications from that application.

Growl can also be configured to send emails or SMS messages, though I haven't tried that.

[Toadling]

@Curt - Thanks for the wonderful Growl refresher. I already knew some of those things but had long since forgotten about them. That's really useful!

Thanks,
Dennis

[Lightstorm]

This doesn't solve your entire need, but you can configure Growl to leave OmniFocus reminders on the screen instead of fading them out. (Go to the Growl Preference Pane, then the Applications tab. Select OmniFocus and click Configure. Change the Stay on Screen setting to Always.)

In conjunction with this, it's helpful to know that clicking the OF icon in the Growl notification switches to OF and selects the action. Also, option-clicking the close icon in a Growl notification closes all the notifications from that application.

Growl can also be configured to send emails or SMS messages, though I haven't tried that.

@Curt,
Are you sure you can config Growl for SMS? I would LOVE that! Sometimes, for no apparent reason, Growl also just stops running, and I have to restart it from the status bar. Which doesn't help, either. :)

[curt.clifton]

@Curt,
Are you sure you can config Growl for SMS? I would LOVE that! Sometimes, for no apparent reason, Growl also just stops running, and I have to restart it from the status bar. Which doesn't help, either. :)

In the Display Options tab of Growl 1.1.4, there's an SMS style. I haven't used it. It looks like it might require a paid Clickatell.com account. I haven't had any stability issues with Growl, but I tend to reboot a couple of times a day. (I use a MBP at home and at the office. I typically shut down rather than sleep when moving back and forth.)

[Lightstorm]

In the Display Options tab of Growl 1.1.4, there's an SMS style. I haven't used it. It looks like it might require a paid Clickatell.com account. I haven't had any stability issues with Growl, but I tend to reboot a couple of times a day. (I use a MBP at home and at the office. I typically shut down rather than sleep when moving back and forth.)

Just enabled SMS reminders using the MailMe option in Growl. Sending emails to the SMS address of AT&T works GREAT!

[iNik]

you can configure Growl to leave OmniFocus reminders on the screen instead of fading them out.

Yep, that's how it's set up. This makes "snoozing" a task a rather inefficient (click, inspect, set the task's new time to 2 hours later...), but it's as close as I can get.

Shame Growl can't TRIGGER scripts and pass along some variables to the script.

[CorgiGirl]

Just to add a me-too to the nagging OmniFocus idea. I posted this elsewhere, but here it is again:

I would really like it if OmniFocus' dated tasks were treated like calendar items with proper reminders. OmniFocus is the one and only place I put stuff I need to remember to do, and popping up an easily-ignored and quickly fading Growl notification just doesn't cut it at all. If something's due, I want OmniFocus to ensure I notice so I don't miss my deadline!

DING DING DING DING DING!
Time to Make the Donuts! Wakey Wakey!
DING DING DING DING DING!

Then have the usual array of snooze/reset the due date/whatever.

Having it work like Entourage wouldn't be bad at all. Put up a list of reminders that I can one-by-one reschedule and deal with -- maybe even have the list appear in something not-unlike the Quick Entry window for easy editing.

I can't agree more with this – I also agree with the thoughts of the original poster. I was not familiar with GTD until I started my "quest" for a task management system for my new 2.0 iphone. Now mind you, I am an extremely organized person. I was a happy Entourage user, but sending tasks and getting information translated properly to ical is a disaster. OF is a holy grail of sorts due to the fantastic iphone task syncing. From an "outsider's perspective," (vs. the diehard GTD posters here who all about pummeled the original poster - poor thing) Omni does present OmniFocus as an app based in GTD, but with enouch flexibiliity for other users and organizational techniques.

I myself would love for the option to have an alarm fire off in ical that I set in OF. I would also love to have a snooze script just like Entourage. Sometimes hard events are really small tasks that happen at a particular time, and it is easier to see them grouped as tasks vs calendar events. For example, I have a diabetic cat. I don't like having a generic alarm to check her sugar levels and another alarm to give her her shot. It's a task I like to be reminded of at the same time every day with an alarm, and I also like being able to mark the task off as complete. In my organized world, I want this task with the rest of my tasks in OF. Since ical doesn't have repetitive tasks, it's a choice of OF with growl as my reminder, or creating ical repetitive events that clog up my iphone calendar view.

When using OmniFocus as a tool for project management (BTW I am voting here for syncing between OmniPlan and OF - that would be a dream come true!), seeing a hard "event" like a deadline with tasks is important. The deadline is an event, but it is also is a milestone and another "box" to check off as complete. That's why having options like setting an ical task alarm or scripting a task to create a hard ical event (with alarm) from a task would be very useful. I am not suggesting that OF have its own calendar - I only want the option to make things happen in ical.

Implemented as options, or even add-ons, hard-core GTDers can just turn the options off and everyone is happy.

I've actually spent hours pouring through the OF forums looking for kind souls who have uploaded scripts to help my in my quest to replace Entourage and sync my life with my iphone (And thank you to all of the posters who take the time to really provide great ideas and solutions in these forums! I am extremely impressed with the dedication of the members and the Omni staff/team - it is a great group!)

The moral here is that there is no one hard system that is perfect for everyone. I also think it is fair to say that no one system is perfect, including GTD. A little flexibility could go a long way and maybe even make things a little better :)

[tim.jeffries]

Just enabled SMS reminders using the MailMe option in Growl. Sending emails to the SMS address of AT&T works GREAT!

How does that work? Does your mobile provider have to have something setup?

I'm in Australia, AT&T doesn't even exist here.

[tim.jeffries]

I think I suggested a solution elsewhere, but here we go again.

For me, the simplest solution is for OF to assign alarms to each task that can be passed onto iCal when we synchronize OF with iCal.

In other words, alarms will go off in iCal, but not in OF (thus not violating the sanctity of GTD, which I think should be viewed as a tool, not a unbreakable rule), but folks who need reminders (for those of us who manage multiple projects, tasks, and roles in our lives) will still get reminders.

Seems like a win-win solution to me.

Has this suggestion been responded to or implemented in any way? It seems to most obvious option to me.

[kidtreo]

Yes... I think that this really answers the core of what many users are dancing around when they start asking for new features.

GTD is entirely about implementing new habitats - and I'm the first to admit my progress in understanding OF and integrating it with my life is somewhat slow...but ongoing and succeeding more every day.

I don't think bloating the app with non core GTD features is the answer...certainly not in such an early incarnation of the the program as there are indeed many other apps out there with non GTD features galore - including endless eternal nags for those (like me sometimes!) who can't bring them selves to self manage their time and priorities which I believe is one of the things GTD is meant to help foster.

So I would LOVE a "life coach" book that helped me get more out of my OF desktop and OF iPhone...just as I'm really looking forward to Mr. Allen's new book in December which I hope will help draw attention to that which is really keeping me from a "mind like water".



devn,

Thanks for your thoughtful post. Lots of interesting ideas there.

I think you actually are asking for a little automated life coach. And I think that's a wonderful idea! Making GTD really work is all about developing a set of habits. An application that would help with that would be great.

Given the power of OmniFocus, somebody should write a book on "Getting Things Done with OmniFocus". I'm imagining a description of best practices, along with modifications that you might want to make for your own circumstances (for example, if all your work is computer based you might not have many different contexts). The end of each chapter could have a checklist that you could review periodically to see where you need to improve your habits. Then a companion application, like you suggested, could mine your OF data and provide you with coaching. The challenge would be keeping the application from nagging you about things when you consciously choose to do it your own way. That's an interesting problem.

[kidtreo]

This idea sounds very interesting - either as a separate (scripted) application or a "mode" in OF, having "AI" built into OF sounds very intriguing! Perhaps a way of putting the users nose in the core GTD philosophy they might be missing or slow to grasp otherwise?

"Hey there User...these projects have been sitting for 90 days...are you sure you want them active or perhaps it's time to move them to someday / mabey or delete them entirely?"

Hmmm!


Yay! I didn't come off as a lazy jerk with a bunch of feature requests!

I think you nailed exactly what I was talking about. We need some way to drill down into this gigantic wealth of information we're inputting into our system, and make it smart. It's a touchy subject because "smart" can mean so many things, but there has to be a few elegant tools that OmniGroup could build into OmniFocus that wouldn't detract from the idea behind the application, while still providing users with something to help them on their quest to GTD mastery. I've actually been thinking about writing that book myself. I don't know if I could get it published, but the blog traffic might be worth it. Anyway, thanks for your comments. Let's keep this discussion friendly and open and try to get /something/ in the words, even if that means parsing exported comma separated OmniFocus databases. I started writing a little application last night, but it's going to be a lonnngggg time coming, so beware.

Also, Curt: I'm not sure if you missed the way I was explaining it or if you were just discussing, in general, the interesting problem of nag vs. the will of the user, but just for clarification: It seems to me keeping the "Life Coach" confined to a sort of "scriptable project", if you will, would achieve the goal in question. I mean, after all, if it's only a project, then a user can most certainly just check it off or delete the task if they don't want to do it or they think it's a bad suggestion. Perhaps bad suggestions could be controlled by doing something similar to a spam filter.

1. You fire up OmniFocus for the first time and you input all of your information, and turn on the GTD preference pane.
2. Over the next few days it starts learning about tasks you avoid, tasks you keep re-evaluating, projects you keep avoiding, and begins sending you some helpful reminders, ideas, etc. based on this to a project called, I don't know "Personal Assistant".
3. You don't like some of the reminders, so you just delete them. It sees you doing this, and remembers you deleted its suggestion for that project, task, etc.
4. You like some of the reminders and you follow them: You click "complete." to show OmniFocus it was helpful. OmniFocus is watching you. ;)
5. Now, reminders and ideas you didn't like are still put into that "Personal Assistant" project, but they are marked automatically as completed, so if you'd like to see what you've been missing, you just change the view to "All", instead of Remaining, Next Actions, etc.
6. You see a good reminder that you think you would like to receive, so you uncheck the complete box, and boom, rule removed.

Note that this is just an example of implementation, but I'd love to hear some different views on this. How would everyone go about implementing a personal assistant in OmniFocus?

All the best,
Devin

[kidtreo]

In complete Agreement...PLEASE do not allow OF to get too non GTD in it's nature as the whole reason I use it - is to get better at implementing GTD in my life! There are PLENTY of other apps and scripts options that will blast you with nags 24/7. While I'm intrigued a little by the idea of building a full calendaring (tickler functionality) app into OF, I just don't think that is the answer... personally...my 2 cents.

[CorgiGirl]

In complete Agreement...PLEASE do not allow OF to get too non GTD in it's nature as the whole reason I use it - is to get better at implementing GTD in my life! There are PLENTY of other apps and scripts options that will blast you with nags 24/7. While I'm intrigued a little by the idea of building a full calendaring (tickler functionality) app into OF, I just don't think that is the answer... personally...my 2 cents.

Actually, in quick response, there aren't ANY task management systems that blast you with "nags" that (1) do a great job of collecting and organizing like OF does and (2) most importantly, there are currently NO task management systems right now that sync two-way between ical, MobileMe, My iphone, My main computer and my laptop. (If you do any traveling at all or have a lot of meetings on the road, or have anyone but yourself entering in a task, this really becomes important.) I think that is why you are getting a lot of posters like myself who are here using Omni for task management vs. the GTD philosophy alone. I'm not just using OF for just my personal life management, I am using it for my business and some project management as well. And honestly folks, there aren't even project management systems right now that can do this (all of the syncing + reminders) - I've looked at everything, and I mean everything. Even Omni's own Omni Plan doesn't do the syncing. There is a gaping hole in this area on the Mac, and this is coming from a die-hard Mac user since 1990.

If these feature requests were options that simply could be an add-on module vs part of the core program, I don't understand why there is such resistance from those who live and breath GTD. Furthermore, just because there is an option to set an alarm doesn't mean you have to set any. In the task entry field, we're talking about adding in ONE small area by the due date that would set reminders or set as events with reminders. How is one line in the inspector palette going to clog up anything?

I think Omni is sitting on a gold mine if they get this right. And if they are afraid of ticking off true GTD's, add in the functions and wrap it up under another Omni Software name. This way GTDs are happy, and they fill a hole in the task management software marketplace at the same time.

[tim.jeffries]

@CorgiGirl

I've worked out that it's unfortunately not possible to do what you (and I) are looking for at the moment anway. Currently the iPhone isn't syncing tasks with iCal, so it won't make any difference on the iPhone if OF allows alarms to be set and sync with iCal. In terms of the iPhone version of OF having alarms, this would be useless unless the application was always open because of the way the iPhone OS works with applications not being able to run in the background.

I'm just trying to change my personal approach to fit with what is possible for now.

[CorgiGirl]

Hi... Actually I would like an alert on a task while I am working on my work, home or laptop computer. Instead of having to go in and manually add then in ical. For my iphone, while alarms would be great, I was only looking to have my tasks with me, which I could check off, as a lot of my tasks are mobile. I have been able to do this by synching ical manually with OF, and the OF pushes tasks through MobileMe to my iphone. The only missing link is automatically synching with both ical and mobileme from Omni focus vs. this manual sync.

But you are right, there is nothing out there... yet. Hopefully one day :)

[wealthychef]

This is a funny discussion, because Omnifocus already has "alarms" -- the tasks turn color when they reach their start and due dates, etc. There is nothing about setting alarms and reminders that violates GTD principles. In fact, David Allen specifically mentioned tossing a bag in front of the front door to remind yourself as an effective principle. In Landmark Education, we call these "existence structures." I think that OmniGroup is doing their best with this app, but need to broaden its features a bit to help those of us who like alarms.

[tim.jeffries]

Hi... Actually I would like an alert on a task while I am working on my work, home or laptop computer. Instead of having to go in and manually add then in ical.

Well this is entirely possible with the current system. You need to use Growl notifications which are actually much nicer than the way iCal does them.

Auto syncing doesn't exist though. :-(

[aaronmclay]

Wow, I read every word in this thread and my eyes are bleeding. =P J/K

You know, I think it's interesting that Ken (http://forums.omnigroup.com/showpost.php?p=22151&postcount=24) asked what exactly do you need to be notified about and the responses that came afterword weren't to specific sans a couple of posts.

To me, I found posters wanted one of two things:


An automatic notification system that alerts the user of pending or past due tasks.

An task reminder for actions that require day/time specific content but arn't large enough events in themselves for their calendar.


To me the bigger question that the OP brought up was, "Should any application automatically *ping* reminders to spur interaction between you and the application?"

My gut tells me, "No." I say this because all productivity systems (including GTD) warn against any kind of software that promises to help you create new habits. Creating new habits is up to the individual (w/ help from the community)

I do think the larger issue for the OP and others having trouble implementing GTD, is two things I suffer from: 1) Lack of motivation because my lists (actions) repel me and 2) I need to complete the weekly review.

Both issues David has spoken about outside of his book and I suggest you download his entire podcast feed (about 10 different shows) and perhaps give a listen to his audio cd covering the weekly review. It turned OmniFocus and GTD around for me.

However, I'm inclined to support those looking for a simple task notification system. I know for sure I wouldn't use it as all the examples provided in this thread (and others) present no challenge in my ability to remember them or complete them.

How so?

I haxxorz. In all seriousness I open my iPhone OmniFocus app every time I enter a new "context." I know what's most important or what needs to get done first because in my weekly review I move my most important projects to the top of each folder that holds them. This in turns puts the Next Action at the top of whatever context it is in.

So....to continue a long post and an even longer thread.
Is OmniFocus not a well oiled, organized and efficent collection of your project and action lists?

I say yes it is and therefore you must review your action list (and calendar) regularly...many times a day....which means alarms and notification become obsolete...which will reduce your stress but not my use of ellipses... /soapbox.

[SpiralOcean]

If you're looking for something that pesters... this widget continues to check in with you to see if you are working on a task you say you are working on.

Doesn't fit all your needs. I like the idea about using locations to bring up a reminder for milk.

http://www.krank.us/Downloads.html