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View Full Version : Sync tasks with due-dates to iCal-calendar? [See "Replacing Calendar Sync" thread.]


tkaufmann
2007-11-04, 01:51 PM
Well, subject more or less says it all. There should at least be on option (if not even a default) to move tasks with a set due-date to the calendar, away from iCals task-pane. For me, this would be the most important advantage of being able to sync with iCal: iCals calendar(s) will give me a complete overview of all due-dates for any given day. Currently I also must have an eye on the task-pane which otherwise I never waste any screen estate on showing.

Tim

pjb
2007-11-04, 03:33 PM
I agree that a way to move tasks to the calendar is needed, but I'd like some control over which tasks remain tasks and which become events. A script might be better.

tkaufmann
2007-11-04, 03:47 PM
I agree that a way to move tasks to the calendar is needed, but I'd like some control over which tasks remain tasks and which become events. A script might be better.

While I'm happy too find some support, my intention was not to turn this into an overly complicated feature. May be a per-calendar-option would be a good compromise?

Off-topic: I still can't see a reason to use iCals task pane. Why should I?

Tim

markb
2007-11-07, 04:16 PM
Well, subject more or less says it all. There should at least be on option (if not even a default) to move tasks with a set due-date to the calendar, away from iCals task-pane. For me, this would be the most important advantage of being able to sync with iCal: iCals calendar(s) will give me a complete overview of all due-dates for any given day. Currently I also must have an eye on the task-pane which otherwise I never waste any screen estate on showing.

Tim

yeah, i just started playing with the ical sync and so far don't see any reason to use it unless dated actions can show up on the duedate -- right now i do this manually (adding due dates as all-day events to a Deadlines calendar) and i was hoping ical sync would do this automatically if i put due dates on actions in OF. otherwise, yeah, what's the point? if dated actions can't be in the same place as appointments then they might as well stay in OF..

pjc
2007-11-08, 10:09 AM
Along these lines, what I would find most useful is syncing items with due dates with iCal on a per-project basis. Syncing by context makes perfect sense for the task list, but for the calendar/deadline view, I'd really rather have a calendar per project. That lets me color-code due items.

So I'm adding my vote for putting items with due-dates into the calendar portion of iCal. But I'd also really like to control which projects populate the calendar. (And, ideally, I'd like to control which calendar(s) they get added to, on a per-project or per-project-folder basis.)

Thoughts?

davidk
2007-11-09, 03:35 PM
I don't have anything more to add, but just want to pile on - I have been hoping for such a feature back in kGTD days. I don't know if there are technical issues associated with this, but wouln't OF better conform to orthdox GTD if tasks with specific dates were placed in the calendar?

richardripley
2007-11-09, 03:46 PM
I don't have anything more to add, but just want to pile on - I have been hoping for such a feature back in kGTD days. I don't know if there are technical issues associated with this, but wouln't OF better conform to orthdox GTD if tasks with specific dates were placed in the calendar?

I would also like to have a feature with scheduled events placed in the calendar, not in the task bar of iCal.

Ken Case
2007-11-09, 03:49 PM
What would the start and end time of the events be on the calendar? Or would they be all-day events?

ksrhee
2007-11-09, 09:49 PM
What would the start and end time of the events be on the calendar? Or would they be all-day events?

I for one would like to keep the tasks as tasks and only schedule those tasks from iCal into scheduled events as I see fit. It's easy to drag a task item from the task pane to calendar pane to create an event within iCal, and this is what I do each day to schedule my tasks. In terms of scheduling, I think this makes more sense than having an all-day event show up from OF.

If OF has an ability to set start and end time for each task, then I think this might be one way to transfer those items that have start time/end time into iCal calendar and those items that do not sync to the task pane.

Just a thought.

davidk
2007-11-10, 09:23 AM
What would the start and end time of the events be on the calendar? Or would they be all-day events?

Thanks for asking Ken. I think it would be fine to make them all-day events. It seems kind of cumbersome to have times added to OF.

pjb
2007-11-10, 05:47 PM
...It's easy to drag a task item from the task pane to calendar pane to create an event within iCal...

True (when OF and iCal are syncing nicely) but dragging from the To Do pane to a day in the hardscape calendar does not delete the task from the To Do list (or even mark it done). I think of the Calendar and the OF tasks to be two separate buckets and a Task can't be in both simultaneously. If I have the meeting, iCal forgets it eventually and I don't want to have to go back and delete the mirror To Do in either application. But if I forget or don't get around to some errand I'd scheduled for a particular day I do want a way to shuffle it back into my Task list, no hard feelings. A toolbar button that would take the selected task, mark it complete, prompt for more info like date, time, and duration and place an Event in iCal would be more useful than a mechanism for Tasks to automatically appear is Events.

brianogilvie
2007-11-10, 05:57 PM
I for one would like to keep the tasks as tasks and only schedule those tasks from iCal into scheduled events as I see fit.

I'm with ksrhee. I find that the due date in tasks suffices for me, especially because iCal sorts tasks due today at the top of the list. If something is truly hard landscape--i.e., it must be done on a particular day--then I'll schedule it in the calendar. Otherwise, for me a due date is a terminus ad quem: something has to be done by a given date, but not necessarily on that date. It wouldn't make sense to schedule such a task as an event in the calendar.

By the way, I had been grouping and sorting actions by due date (saved as a perspective) to keep on top of upcoming deadlines, but the new badges are a nice addition.

acollins
2007-11-10, 08:38 PM
What would the start and end time of the events be on the calendar? Or would they be all-day events?

My vote would be yes to all-day events. Then you could have a "deadlines" context that syncs with a "deadlines" calendar.

At any rate, when using OmniFocus the whole idea of using iCal for tasks seems redundant.

ksrhee
2007-11-11, 03:45 AM
I'm with ksrhee. I find that the due date in tasks suffices for me, especially because iCal sorts tasks due today at the top of the list. If something is truly hard landscape--i.e., it must be done on a particular day--then I'll schedule it in the calendar. Otherwise, for me a due date is a terminus ad quem: something has to be done by a given date, but not necessarily on that date. It wouldn't make sense to schedule such a task as an event in the calendar.

By the way, I had been grouping and sorting actions by due date (saved as a perspective) to keep on top of upcoming deadlines, but the new badges are a nice addition.

Yes. I still don't see what's the point of syncing the tasks as all day events in iCal. I can see those tasks fine right now in iCal in the task pane, and with iCal's preference you can block out the future tasks if you are in the day view. In fact, it would just crowd my calendar which I keep for actual appointments and events. To me that's the purpose of keeping a calendar anyway.

I think iCal sync is useful for many who wants to get OF tasks into PDA's , iPhone, etc., and also for those of us who like to schedule tasks into "appointments" so that we can schedule our tasks into our calendar.

This method of scheduling your tasks into "hard" appointment has proven quite successful for me since tasks need to get done at some points, and by scheduling them, I know I can devote my time to those tasks during the day.

So, I for one would like to vote "no" for this behavior as a default option. However, if Omni makes this optional for those of you who would find this feature helpful, then I have no objections.

pjb
2007-11-11, 03:53 AM
...
At any rate, when using OmniFocus the whole idea of using iCal for tasks seems redundant.

I only use the To Do's in iCal as a way to get from OF to my PDA. They're generally not visible the way I use iCal.

acollins
2007-11-11, 05:22 PM
I only use the To Do's in iCal as a way to get from OF to my PDA. They're generally not visible the way I use iCal.

Good point. I guess I'm dreaming of a day when we're running MobileOmniFocus on our iPhones. :)

tkaufmann
2007-11-27, 06:21 AM
Yes. I still don't see what's the point of syncing the tasks as all day events in iCal. I can see those tasks fine right now in iCal in the task pane

I don't ever have that open, to me it's a waste of space on my screen.


and with iCal's preference you can block out the future tasks if you are in the day view.

Day view doesn't give me enough overview. Like many (at least that's what I suppose) I work in week view.



In fact, it would just crowd my calendar which I keep for actual appointments and events.



It's not that I want to sync tasks I intend to do to the calendar view, it's that I want to see those tasks there which *must* be done on a certain date. They are more or less the same as an appointment. I don't want to talk you into this, but you could have multiple calendars and turn them on and off as needed if you feel your calendar get's too crowded.



So, I for one would like to vote "no" for this behavior as a default option. However, if Omni makes this optional for those of you who would find this feature helpful, then I have no objections.

Glad to hear that ;-)

Tim

arnthorsnaer
2007-11-28, 09:17 AM
To be dramatic, I've been aching for the feature to turn my dated actions into events, ever since I got my iPhone.

Pretty please mr OmniFocus sir.

pictor
2007-11-28, 10:02 AM
I'd like the option to make them events (even all day events), as I can them have them synch from ical to google calendar using spanning sync. That lets me access those items from almost anywhere, and even enter entries while on the road and see them sync back.

sdierdorf
2007-11-28, 03:46 PM
This may be slightly off-topic, but why don't synced tasks with due dates have alarms turned on by default? (AFAIK, you have to turn them on manually in iCal.) I would prefer that synced tasks be calendar events, but I could handle them being to-do items if the alarms were turned on automatically. (For me the point in syncing with iCal is visibility - I look at my calendar, and I don't look at the To-Do items, so I would prefer that tasks show up as all-day events. But if I had an alarm that popped up in my face, I could deal with them not being on the calendar.)

tkaufmann
2007-12-07, 04:21 AM
Any chance we'll see related changes in 1.0?

Tim

kaioslider
2007-12-08, 08:53 AM
Glad to see I'm not the only one looking for the creation of iCal events from OF. If there is a due date specified in OF, then that should automatically show up on iCal as an event at the time specified. Have OF specify how a to do is handled in iCal; have options about how you want OF to tell iCal what to do, ie - any task with a due date is listed as a) all day event, or b) time specified - all users the option to publish start dates and/or estimated time to complete - in short, build this to allow the user to customize the iCal sync features, if you only want the "to dos" listed as "to dos" in iCal, great, if you want to have OF create specific events, no problem. I suppose, however, as a start, just creating an option of entering due dates as all-day events would be acceptable, but one thing that's clear to me is that enhanced calendar options are needed - doesn't that seem to make more sense with the "Getting Things Done" method? Granted, I've only listen to the audiobook once.

iNik
2007-12-10, 01:57 PM
While I can totally understand why this might be desirable (all time-sensitive information can be viewed in one place), I'd find it quite distracting. There's a key difference between a task and an appointment, and I put appointments on my calendar and tasks in OF.

What I WOULD like to see is a view in iCal that shows an agenda including upcoming/due tasks alongside events. Entourage can do this, and I believe there's some Dashboard widgets that will do the same. I figure that'd be the best of both worlds, although it's out of Omni's hands.

tkaufmann
2007-12-10, 03:34 PM
While I can totally understand why this might be desirable (all time-sensitive information can be viewed in one place), I'd find it quite distracting.

Again, use multiple calendars.


There's a key difference between a task and an appointment, and I put appointments on my calendar and tasks in OF.


Could you describe that difference to me?


What I WOULD like to see is a view in iCal that shows an agenda including upcoming/due tasks alongside events. Entourage can do this, and I believe there's some Dashboard widgets that will do the same. I figure that'd be the best of both worlds, although it's out of Omni's hands.

I think that's too complicated. Just sync tasks with a due date to a separate calendar and make that an option.

Tim

pvonk
2007-12-10, 05:27 PM
There's a key difference between a task and an appointment, and I put appointments on my calendar and tasks in OF.
Could you describe that difference to me?


Tasks are to-do items that need to be done now or starting on a particular date, and possibly need to be completed by a due date. I don't want to be reminded on the due date - it's too late by then. Tasks are items that are not scheduled at a particular date at at certain time, like an appointment, but are things we need to do starting "now" - and if we can't finish them today, they roll over to tomorrow, etc. The book, GTD, discusses appointments vs. tasks. OF aims to be a GTD app, not an appointment book.

tkaufmann
2007-12-11, 03:29 PM
The book, GTD, discusses appointments vs. tasks. OF aims to be a GTD app, not an appointment book.

Better go back and read the book you're talking about. ;-)

On p. 39 it says:

Three things go on your calendar:
• time-specific actions;
• day-specific actions; and
• day-specific information.


OF is the app I plan my projects in and which helps me track my tasks. Maybe iCals integration with numerous other apps makes it attractive for syncing its task lists with tasks from OF, even if that seems redundant to me. But a calendar is definitely worth nothing if time- or day-specific actions don't show up there.

Tim

pvonk
2007-12-11, 05:25 PM
Better go back and read the book you're talking about. ;-)

On p. 39 it says:

Tim

Yup, you're right. I tend to separate such calendar reminders from the actions I add to the "next action" lists, and I use OF for the latter.

I would object to the idea of putting actions with a due date into the calendar, since I have many actions that have a due date but are not meant to be entirely done or even done on that date. Especially if I have a start date included. I don't want to have to scan a few days ahead each day to spot things that are due two, three, or four days from now - that I could get started or even done now.

However, a simple solution would be to have a check box next to the due date entry box that designates an action as a reminder and synched to the calendar.

tkaufmann
2007-12-12, 08:22 AM
I tend to separate such calendar reminders from the actions I add to the "next action" lists, and I use OF for the latter.


So you add your next actions to OF and reminders about some/all of them in the calendar? I think that's not in line with your signature, neither with GTD ;-)

I would object to the idea of putting actions with a due date into the calendar, since I have many actions that have a due date but are not meant to be entirely done or even done on that date.

Again: only actions which must be done on a certain day belong into the calendar. Everything else belongs into the next action list where you choose your next action based on context, available time, energy etc.


However, a simple solution would be to have a check box next to the due date entry box that designates an action as a reminder and synched to the calendar.

No please. Keep OF as simple as possible. Sync tasks with due dates to the calendar where they belong. If no time, but only a date is set, make them all day events. Let the user choose which calendar he wants the tasks go in. And - if it's really needed by many - have an option to sync all tasks to the task-list.

Tim

brianogilvie
2007-12-12, 07:38 PM
Again: only actions which must be done on a certain day belong into the calendar. Everything else belongs into the next action list where you choose your next action based on context, available time, energy etc....

Sync tasks with due dates to the calendar where they belong. If no time, but only a date is set, make them all day events. Let the user choose which calendar he wants the tasks go in. And - if it's really needed by many - have an option to sync all tasks to the task-list.

I agree with you that "only actions which must be done on a certain day belong [in] the calendar." But an action with a due date does not have to be done on that day. It could be done three days earlier, or two months earlier. What would you do with an action whose start date was 1 January 2008 and whose due date was 15 April 2008--create an iCal event that stretched over three and a half months?

I think David Allen's advice is sound: if you can ONLY do something on a particular date, it does not belong on your task list at all; it belongs on your calendar. But that's not the same as an action that must be done by a particular date but can be done at an earlier date.

The basic issue here is whether a due date is time- or day-specific. You think that it is; those of us who disagree think that it is not, because it is only a terminus ad quem.

tkaufmann
2007-12-20, 01:19 PM
What would you do with an action whose start date was 1 January 2008 and whose due date was 15 April 2008--create an iCal event that stretched over three and a half months?


Have a reminder at the starting day.

Tim

ptone
2007-12-21, 02:19 PM
I have just posted a toolbar script to pretty much do exactly what is generally asked for in this thread:

http://forums.omnigroup.com/showpost.php?p=29539&postcount=1

Enjoy,

-P

1/2Astronaut
2008-07-22, 11:56 AM
Bogus is in the eye of the beholder. People who use a smart phone besides the iPhone, or a Palm, or some other device that can sync with the iCal to-do list are very grateful for this feature.

After suffering through Palm Lists and Entourage lists I don't know what they are waiting for. Having an extra list around to sync, check off and dilly dally with makes no sense. Especially if its all GTD. I have spent a little over a week Getting things done with OmniFocus and, well thats about all I have been able to do is manage my lists, and OF. If I should go to the trouble of inputting a date and time on something it should jump into my calendar. Not another list, or having to enter it again in another program. That is wasting my time and not GTD.

As for scheduling tasks on the calendar, there have been a number of threads on that. For my take, see this posting (http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?p=28427#post28427). See the rest of the thread for opposing views. Just a question though: if you set a start date of August 1 and a due date of September 15 on a task, how should OmniFocus represent that task as a calendar event?

See Tim's comment in that thread. That is simple enough. Ical won't show a big old stripe through your calendar unless all day event is selected.

I was using omnioutliner to perform the same function as Omnifocus. Now I hope that all the bells and whistles in OF aren't distractions in the end. If omnioutliner synced with the Iphone I would probably still use that. Nothing better than a folded up piece of 8.5 x 11 paper with a mindmap on the front and ToDo lists on the back. Outliner to keep a running tab of lists.

I gotta get back to work.

brianogilvie
2008-07-22, 12:28 PM
(Due to the dual post, the conversation has been continued in this thread (http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?p=42114#post42114).)

kbaughman
2011-02-08, 05:54 PM
I read all the posts... what happened to this topic?
1) I think it is good GTD behavior to only have one bucket for time sensitive stuff; the calendar.
- I think for organizing projects, there is nothing better than the OF interface.
- I agree with the poster who suggests that he only wants to enter the date once... a date is a universal value. I should not have to enter it 3 times. (into OF, into iCal, from ical back to GTD in some cases where an event is created based on mail.app but really belongs in OF)

2) To answer Ken Case's excellent question from page 2:
I would like to have "dated" OF tasks show up in ical on their due day, as all day events. To distinguish between due and start, please add "Due:" and "Start:" before the task name.
- the contexts should map to ical calendars (Good GTD).
- I would like to see this as a check box on the "sync:" menu called "Sync todos with dates as ical-calanders." And then have the option to chose either a specific calendar, or use the OF context/ical calendars.
- I would like to have the option to NOT sync OF todos to ical todos. For all the reason outlined above.

Brian
2011-02-10, 03:25 PM
See this thread (http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=18570) for more current info on what's going on with calendar syncing.