iPhone OmniOutliner

[MacSparky]

I realize the gang at Omni will be focusing on getting OF to the iPhone first. Any hope of getting OmniOutliner too?

[DerekM]

We're focusing on OmniFocus iPhone right now and after that we'll see!

[schakwin]

Let me add my vote to MacSparky's. I manage my daily activities with OO lists and also use them for meeting agendas and the like. There isn't a really good way to get them into the iPhone.
If I export to HTML, the outline turns into a file folder. Can't mail that. If I export to Word, the iPhone tells me the file is locked and can't be opened. If I export to text or print to PDF (the Daylite solution) or simply copy the whole thing and paste it into the e-mail, the result is readable, but I can't modify it or mark it as I go through the day - or I could if I do a reply to the e-mail and save it as a draft, modifying it as I go along - how elegant and easy is that?
I use Daylite to manage my professional life and OF to manage my personal and have both of them feeding into OO for my daily task list. But now that I've upgraded to a superior phone+, I can't do things that I used to be able to do with ease long ago with a Palm and could have done with some effort with a BlackBerry. Not all progress...

Best,

Stephen

[uc_student]

OO on the iPhone please - it will be widely used by students who take notes and want to review or apply the info in their notes in the field - students, grad students, prof. students!

[DamonC]

Add me to the list for OO iPhone. I needed something for the Palm before I got the iPhone but never found anything completely suitable. Having lists on the go would be fantastic.

[Melan]

I'd like to add my voice to the list of pro-OO for iphone people. It'd be great!

[wpitman]

I hate to post a "me too" post but... but I find that I'm using OO as much or more than I do OF -- both are great app's -- and putting both on the iPhone 3G would REALLY enhance my productivity and my "fun-factor"! Hope to see it real soon! On the Palm side I used to use ShadowPlan -- a solid app -- but OO on a iPhone that would automatically sync with the desktop would be a HUGE step forward and much needed app!

[RiK]

Another hand in the air to support this from me!

[Roger Barre]

I totally understand the reasoning behind getting OmniFocus ported to the iPhone first, but once that's done I want to encourage you to keep the store open nights and weekends to get OmniOutliner there as well. Right now I print any needed OO outlines to a .pdf and email them to myself so I can have them with me ... but cannot wait until I'll be able to sync them automatically and edit them on the iPhone.

It would be a huge deal for me.

Thanks,

rb

[kristian]

i put up my hand too for OO on the IPhone.
it seems an obvious match for note taking and ideas outlining on the fly during academic and professional meetings and reunions.

[robert@objectdata.com]

I'll raise my hand for OO on iPhone.

As a new platform, it would be terrific to have OO as part of the essential toolset. OO often generates talks, subject papers, articles which wouldn't evolve from OF workflow. Thanks.

[scottjenson]

I totally get that you're pushing for OF on the iPhone, np. But as OF is a superset of OO, isn't there anyway to have a simple way to import by OO docs with a 'view all' perspective so I can do simple view/editing on the iPhone?

Btw, I'm one of those big GTD users that *doesn't* use OF as it is just too damn complicated for me. OO is simple, lightweight, and let's me 'draw outside the lines' when I need to.

[Brian]

Neither app is a superset of the other - each application has a feature set that includes features that the other doesn't have. When/if we do an OmniOutliner iPhone app, it'll have to be a separate application.

[sophiesfurnishings]

Please create the oo for the iphone!

[blurky]

Love OO, would crave it for the iphone. You know how many good note taking apps are on the app store now? None. Evernote sorta qualifies, but its more note organizing (and tied to the evernote cloud), than mere notetaking. Apple notes are hoorible, not only because you can't sync, but also the paper background, the lack of features, no sense of order other than chronological, just overall little thought put into it. I'm sure if anyone can deliver its the good ninjas at omni.

[mctheriot]

Add another vote for OO for iPhone!

[dconjar]

One more vote. I don't see myself buying OO unless I can look forward to an iPhone app.

[eluxtria]

I too would love to be able to keep a sync'd OO document on my iPhone. I do use OmniFocus, but not really for brainstorming. For that, I'm all about OO. I just put together some ideas, and would love to at least VIEW them on the iPhone, but alas, I have few options.

[Marxman]

Desperately need a great list manager on my iTouch. Use OF and OF iPhone everyday, but as any GTDer worth their salt knows... You have to have lists of non-actionable items/projects. I need to have my OO Someday/Maybe list on my Touch. Would gladly plunk down another $20 for it.

[Stormchild]

I'd like to add two votes.

One for OmniOutliner for iPhone.
And the other for focusing on iPhone OmniFocus!

Please do both, but by all means, make the currently shipping product your first priority. I'm very happy with OF for iPhone so far. I've never really gotten off the ground with the Mac version -- even though it is much more powerful. Having my GTD system in my pocket at all times seems like it was the missing piece, because now I'm not only creating projects and tasks, but checking my lists for things to do, and getting things done!

And to be entirely honest, I think you guys did a much better job on the iPhone version than the full-blown desktop app. The UI is far more intuitive and less confusing, and I actually find myself pulling out the iPhone version even when I'm sitting at my desk. It's easier to use, it launches 10 times faster, and has all the same information.

But I would seriously love to have a general outliner as well.

I've been using Zenbe "Lists" on the iPhone so far. It's better than the basic "Notes" app, but not by much. You're limited to a single, flat list of lists, and only a single level of items (i.e. no grandchildren). You can rearrange list items, but at the top level the lists themselves are sorted alphabetically. At the very least, it does let me move list items up and down, but mostly all it does is make me wish I had an Omni tool for the same job.

That said, I've been thinking about lists and outlines on the iPhone, and I really don't think a full-scale version of OmniOutliner is going to work on such a small screen (not to mention within 128 MB of RAM). You'd have to rethink how you're going to present and edit attributes that apply to all rows (i.e. columns). And with all the (much-deserved) talk about replication and other advanced features in OO4, the gap between what a mobile device can and should do, and what the desktop version of OO4 is capable of, is only going to become greater.

So it seems to me that perhaps it shouldn't be called "OmniOutliner", or the name should at least have a modifier like "Pocket" or "Mobile". Whereas OmniFocus for iPhone manages to do most of what the desktop version can do, and supports syncing the data back and forth, I can't imagine getting near feature-parity in this case (to the point of at least being able to view documents that use features not editable on the mobile version).

So maybe...think small? Tabula rasa...what are the most essential elements of an outline? Which features of desktop OO would cripple the basic purpose of the product if they were missing? I don't know. You guys figure it out. I'll buy it.

In the meantime, I very much appreciate that your time is focused on OmniFocus, because it's quickly becoming a central part of how I plan everything.

[viveka]

Yes please. I have an OO Pro license; would happily pay another $20 for OO for iPhone. I'd be happy with something dead simple and fast to use, with OPML support and limited features.

After that I would start wanting Omnigraffle too, but that's another thread.

In the meantime I'm off to buy Omnifocus for iPhone, even though I've never got my head around the OS X version (I'm a GTDer but prefer fewer tools); maybe this will be my way in.

[adrianbye]

Some of you may be able to use this: http://carbonfin.com/

I am also waiting for someone to make an desktop syncing organizer for the iphone. We all know the market is there. If omni can't be bothered doing it I am sure someone else will.

[adrianbye]

Here's another option:

http://www.dejumble.com/

These guys seem like they may have both a mac and an iphone version which may solve this problem.

If anyone does find a good alternative to omni outliner for the iphone, please post it. Since Omni isn't working on this market, I can't see they would mind.

[DerekM]

I'm not trying to stop you from finding other apps out there, just some observations on both carbonfin and dejumble, they're both heavily geared towards task management, not actual outlining. This is very much where kGTD came from and which has now become OmniFocus. If these apps look like what you want, perhaps you should take a closer look at OmniFocus iPhone.

OmniOutliner isn't a task manager, it can certainly be used for simple to-do lists and it's quite great for that, but it is used for much more as well. Now that we have OmniFocus, OmniOutliner is less about being a task manager. I can't comment on what the future of OmniOutliner is, but it likely won't gain features aimed at task management.

OmniOutliner on the iPhone would reflect this instead of being OmniFocus lite or something. It would be a general purpose outliner and hopefully capable of at least displaying any OO document created on the desktop. I've yet to see an iPhone app like this but would certainly be interested in checking it out if it exists.

[Joe H]

I would LOVE to see OO for the iphone. In fact, it would probably be my most used app. The same way OO is my most used app on my desktop since InControl by Attain went belly up. I can't live without it I tell ya.

OF just doesn't do it for me. I need an outliner not a task manager.

JH

[random1destiny]

The Carbonfin outliner seems more like a straightforward outliner to me than a task manager. That said, it can't open OO files and there's no matching desktop program, so it doesn't really help me that much.

Now that the OmniFocus iPhone app is out, I hope work on the OO app is beginning. Depending on how long you guys think a full OO app will take to build on the iPhone, I wonder if you guys would consider making a simple free viewer on the iPhone first in the meantime. Similar to how you guys just enabled Quick View for the desktop OO.

For everyone else, until the OO iPhone app comes out, a good view-only solution I found is to buy the Files iphone app which lets you upload any type of file. Then export your OO file as HTML(Unordered List) and transfer and view it using Files. This results in a fairly readable copy that you can keep on your iPhone.

[v.bampton]

Add my vote too, I'd love to see OO on iPhone.

[malisa]

The Carbonfin outliner seems more like a straightforward outliner to me than a task manager. That said, it can't open OO files and there's no matching desktop program, so it doesn't really help me that much.

Now that the OmniFocus iPhone app is out, I hope work on the OO app is beginning. Depending on how long you guys think a full OO app will take to build on the iPhone, I wonder if you guys would consider making a simple free viewer on the iPhone first in the meantime. Similar to how you guys just enabled Quick View for the desktop OO.

For everyone else, until the OO iPhone app comes out, a good view-only solution I found is to buy the Files iphone app which lets you upload any type of file. Then export your OO file as HTML(Unordered List) and transfer and view it using Files. This results in a fairly readable copy that you can keep on your iPhone.

Another view only solution is to save it as a pdf (from the print screen) and email it to yourself. Opens and looks just fine.

[Roger Barre]

Even easier - if you don't need indents - is to select all, copy, and paste it into a Note in Apple Mail. The iPhone automatically syncs Notes.

[Mixalis]

Count me in. As a long-time OO user I am now an OmniFocus fan and enjoy the way it syncs with my iPhone. I would make more use of OO, particularly for planning my blog posts, if I could have an iPhone application with synchronisation.

[kennett]

OO for iPhone is a must and would finally replace my RexWireless IdeaMatrix for my old BB 8310.

[RobTrew]

Can't help feeling that a pencil and paper in the back pocket might be marginally more sophisticated ...

[DerekM]

Those of you who have tried CarbonFin Outliner, what do you think of it? It appears to be the only actual outliner on the iPhone currently and uses OPML. Are you looking for more features or does this fit your needs for the most part?

[c.nick]

While I find the CarbonFin generally a good piece of Software, I would love to see an "Omnigroup-native" iPhone Companion for OmniOutliner.

I simply want to be sure, that synching works smoothly - with a web-outliner (ok) but also (more importantly) with the Mac application itself. Furthermore I would love to see customizable styles, extra fields per entry (columns) and audio-notes. Also making more use of iPhone integrated applications like Addressbook, Camera and Photos.

Best regards. Keep up the good work!

[joyeuxluron]

Hello everybody,

Great discussion here. What I get from the discussion so far is that:
1) Options exist for syncing of basic task management (omnifocus/dejumble);
2) There is an option to create a small iPhone-only outliner (carbonfin)
3) There are workarounds to export "view only" versions of more refined omnioutliners documents (eg. export to pdf and email it to yourself).

Here is where I think a OO version for iPhone would greatly add to this picture.

I use OO as an "idea organizer" and note-taker. My main file is a large database of medical notes which I build from the computer and classify into different topics. I make heavy use of the note feature in OO, where I store most of the content. I also include several aliases from omnigraffle documents (to add graphs and tables) and pdf documents (for extracts of medical articles).

I currently use ShadowPlan to have a (palmOS) pocket version of the outline (without the graphs, pictures, and tables) when I am in the hospital/clinic. The ShadowPlan sync feature is limited as it erases all formating and aliases links in the desktop file if I sync back from the palm to the desktop, so that I use only "one-way syncing" (from desktop to palm) and input all new information from my computer. Although I could live with a read-only version of the file, the pdf or HTML export are not an option in my case because this would create a huge file that woud be a nightmare to search. My use of OO is similar to UC_student who mentions using this for taking notes in class and have those notes available on the fly (so I think this could represent a sizeable market).

Having an iPhone version of OO would be a major bonus and a push to move toward the iPhone. In my case, this would need to include: 1) easy search/scroll feature to find a specific note within a large outline; 2) preserve the integrity of the desktop database during sycing (even if all the features of OO are not available in the iPhone version, such as the ability to preview omnigraffle documents); 3) minimal input cababilities from the iPhone to the mac document; 4) being able to see embedded graphs/pictures would be really amazing but I could live without that (as long as they don't diseapear from my OO file when I sync back).

Thanks a lot and good luck!

[rsailer@mac.com]

I would love to use OO as my primary list manager on my iPhone. I think checklists are really useful and having lists that sync between the mac and the iphone would be very useful...

I think the iphone is relatively poor at data entry and would prefer to do my data entry (list creation) mostly on the mac.

I guess I would be interested in check lists that can be reused (checklists where I can clear the checks without clearing the lists) for stuff like packing lists.

Also, maybe being able to create items on lists that include picture and/or location info from the iphone would be pretty cool!

Just a few thoughts. With all the OF/iPhone expertise at OG, I think this would be a killer app!

Thanks,

Randy

[bankomeister]

I would love omnioutliner for my iphone! THis would be unbelievably useful! I already have a family license for OOPro and also for OF and OF for iphone. OG products are the best!

[GregO]

Definitely makes sense to have OO for the iPhone. Having the portablity for lists of all kinds is a major advantage!