Sorry for the confusion. We have never committed to creating an iPhone version of OmniOutliner and we are not currently working on one. The original purpose of this thread was to gather information about what would be expected from an iPhone version should we make one.

In the OmniOutliner world, we are actively developing both OmniOutliner iPad and OmniOutliner 4. An iPhone version may happen some day, we do still see a place for it, but it will be a while before we would have the resources to commit to it if we choose to.

If you have any questions about this, please let me know!

Very sad news. So many people use OO for organising thoughts and checklists and this is just the kind of stuff you want to have handy all the time. Nobody has their Mac or iPad handy any time - but everybody has their iPhone in their pocket or at arms length reach pretty much always... The iPhone is where OO would have gained a whole new world of user benefit. Ubiquitous availability of your stuff. Whereas the iPad (as much as I like it) mostly is a replacement for a mobile Mac... Sad to say - but in my eyes you miss a great opportunity to close an important gap in your user experience eco-system.
Hopefully you go for it as soon as OO4 is up and running (as I understand that this is prerequisit for OO/iPhone.
Best regards, Chris

Confusing Statements
 

[QUOTE=DerekM;86575]Sorry for the confusion. We have never committed to creating an iPhone version of OmniOutliner and we are not currently working on one.[/QUOTE]
More than one company has fallen apart because of this type of confusion. While there is "plausible deniability" inscribed in this exchange, the issue isn't about who was right about the status of OO for iPhone. It's about lack of reliable information about a product's future and the impact it may have on long-term user commitment to this product.
I still love OO but the lack of any iOS version has made me shift my workflow away from it. Just this week, I went back to the blog to see what the ETA for the iPad version was. In a way, I simply assumed that there would also be a version for other iOS devices. Fool me once..

[QUOTE=Enkerli;86611]More than one company has fallen apart because of this type of confusion. While there is "plausible deniability" inscribed in this exchange, the issue isn't about who was right about the status of OO for iPhone. It's about lack of reliable information about a product's future and the impact it may have on long-term user commitment to this product.
I still love OO but the lack of any iOS version has made me shift my workflow away from it. Just this week, I went back to the blog to see what the ETA for the iPad version was. In a way, I simply assumed that there would also be a version for other iOS devices. Fool me once..[/QUOTE]

Plausible deniability? Come on, if you search the archives for posts containing omnioutliner and iPhone, you will find that Omni has had the same message all along (for more than 2 years): we are not currently working on such an app, but it is something interesting to us and we will consider it in the future when we are done with our current committed projects. Anyone reading something else has been reading what they wish to see, not what is there. If you assume what you want rather than reading what is put forth, how is this Omni's miscommunication? How could they have acted differently to get this message across?

Communicating Isn't Easy
 

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;86643] Anyone reading something else has been reading what they wish to see, not what is there. If you assume what you want rather than reading what is put forth, how is this Omni's miscommunication? How could they have acted differently to get this message across?[/QUOTE]
One of the first insight from studies of human communication is in fact that people put in it much more than what is offered. Including all sorts of intentions, bits of subtext and, yes, wishful thinking. Acting as if human communication were, like machine communication, a matter of coding and decoding is the basis of failure in many spaces, including markets.
The point isn't that it's Omni's one-sided fault that some people have been waiting enthusiastically for an iPhone version of OO. One point is that the consistent but vague message ("we might do this in the future") was sustaining some expectations until we got this new and clear message that, while they have an explicit strategy for another iOS device, they have no intention of broadening their strategy to the large majority of iOS devices. Blaming people for being disappointed is counterproductive as it does exactly nothing to explain the Omni Group's strategy with OO (something they haven't done such a good job elsewhere) and angers some of the product's most enthusiastic supporters. Given the state of outlining as more of a niche feature with a dedicated following, it sounds like a rather inelegant approach and a potentially damning one. When you take in consideration the fact that the product in question is used as part of some very elaborate workflows which clearly benefit from having some clear release schedules, the handwaving by Omni Group followed by a "oh, yes, we forgot to tell you, we won't develop an iPhone version after all" is the prelude to a nightmare.
What the Omni Group could have done includes a number of different things as we're talking about human complexity, not the complicated problems associated with developing the software from a set of specs. But one thing which could have helped would have been a blogpost, similar to the first one about the iPad (before they started reacting viscerally) or a part of that same post mentioning a clear vision for iOS development and/or doubts about the future of an iPhone version. Integrating plans about OO4 would also have made sense. Though it's a tricky strategy, discussing the results of an informal poll about OO's future might have helped, though some apparent lack of interest for the wishes of some usage patterns could have backfired ("we're listening but only if you belong to the powerful part of the Pareto rule").
What I'm expressing here isn't disappointment about the decision not to support the iPhone (and, I assume, the iPod touch). My needs may have expanded away from those about which the Omni Group seems to care. I wished for a new iOS outliner but I wasn't holding my breath.
In fact, what I'm expressing here isn't about me. Not is it about individual members of the Omni Group. It's about the relationship between a widely-respected but still small software development outlet, its fanbase, and the wider public. If the Omni Group were bigger, something as simple as this could lead to a "PR disaster." Given the size of the "group" and relationships it has developed over the years with some categories of users, it can be solved more easily with a healthy dose of respect. It can still lead to headaches and nightmares, but it's still manageable.
If and only if they avoid the mistake of "blaming the user."


It's an attention economy: pay attention to get attention.


(Posted from my iPod touch.)

alternatives?
 

[FONT=Georgia]What are people doing in the absence of OO-iP?

I just started using Nebulous Notes (a text editor) in conjunction with DropBox. It's better than nothing, but it's not OO. If it had an easy way to do tabs, it would be a little more acceptable as a substitute...[/FONT] [FONT=Georgia]

Are there iPhone outliners that do not require a program on the Mac? Are there scripts to get their outlines in and out of OO?[/FONT] [FONT=Georgia]
[/FONT]

Nebulous
 

[QUOTE=henri;86703][FONT=Georgia]I just started using Nebulous Notes (a text editor) in conjunction with DropBox. It's better than nothing, but it's not OO. If it had an easy way to do tabs, it would be a little more acceptable as a substitute...[/FONT] [FONT=Georgia]
[/FONT][/QUOTE]

[FONT=Georgia]I just heard from the developer: the next version of Nebulous Notes will have easy tabbing and untabbing. Since it displays, creates, and edits .txt files which require no special software on the computer, and since OO is good about importing and exporting .txt files, that will probably be my workaround for a while.
[/FONT]

I too have somehow fallen into the self-delusion that there would be a version of OmniOutliner for the iPhone to complement OO on the iPad.

Henri, with regards to substitutes, here's a copy of a post over I made over on the OmniFocus for iPad forum.

[QUOTE=hypotyposis;86785]While I'm at it, any recommendations of what to use to open OmniOutliner's OPMLs on an iPad while waiting for OO iPad to come out?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=endoftheQ;86791]Hi Hypotyposis

I'm currently using [URL="http://carbonfin.com/"]CarbonFin's Outliner[/URL] and a colleague's got [URL="http://zeptoliner.com/index.html"]ZeptoLiner[/URL] to import OPML.

I was probably going to buy the OmniOutliner App when it came out (after seeing the Board's opinion, having bought OmniGraffle and OmniGraphSketcher and subsequently replaced them!). However, on learning that there isn't currently a plan to bring OO onto the iPhone, I'll be sticking with CarbonFin's Outliner as this is available on both iDevices and I carry my iPhone 24/7 whereas my iPad not so much!

Although there's no Mac desktop version of CarbonFin's Outliner, it does have a web interface and, probably because I'm not a heavy outliner user, I've practically abandoned OmniOutliner on the desktop in favour of Outliner and the associated web interface.

I also like [URL="http://www.ithoughts.co.uk/iThoughts/Welcome.html"]iThoughts[/URL] and [URL="http://www.creativeapplications.net/iphone/imandalart-iphone/"]iMandalArt[/URL] (people either love or loath this one!) for their ability to import OPML and display it as either mindmaps or mandalas.[/QUOTE]

Hope this is helpful.

I apologize for any lingering confusion over our iPhone plans!

We're [I]still[/I] strongly considering developing OmniOutliner for iPhone: we haven't made a decision not to support it. In fact, we're just as interested now as we ever were. But as Derek said [URL="http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?p=52971#post52971"]at the start of this thread[/URL], it's just something we're [I]strongly considering[/I]—it's not something we've committed to or have actually started working on.

I've already said this [URL="http://www.omnigroup.com/blog/entry/ipad_or_bust_3_down_2_to_go/"]on our blog[/URL], but it bears repeating here: Designing a great touch-based interface for text outlines is not an easy problem. Creating a touchable outline wasn't easy to solve for OmniFocus, but at least there we knew what basic attributes each task would have: so we could decide which pieces of information to hide at what times, how to size and present everything to put your attention on the right pieces of information, etc. With OmniOutliner, on the other hand, every document gets to define its own schema, with different sets of columns, different summaries, etc., and we don't know what it all means and which bits of information are most important—so we have to build an interface which is much more general and flexible.

For us to actually commit to building OmniOutliner for iPhone, we need to have a clear vision of what it should be—and that's exactly why we started this thread. We're asking all of you what it is that you want, because we know it can't be exactly the same as OmniOutliner is on Mac—or even iPad.

That last point might be the source of some of the confusion out there, so it's probably worth stating again: OmniOutliner for iPhone can't be exactly the same as OmniOutliner for iPad. It's great that the underlying operating system is exactly the same, but the form factors of the different devices require very different designs. That's why Apple's iWork apps don't work on iPhones, while Apple's iMovie app doesn't work on iPads. And, unfortunately, that means that building a great touch-based outlining interface for iPad doesn't mean that we'll have figured out how to build a great touch-based interface for iPhone.

Of course, the other thing we need before we can commit to an iPhone app is to finish the work we've already committed to doing, namely shipping OmniOutliner for iPad and OmniOutliner 4 for Mac.

So that's where OmniOutliner for iPhone stands right now: we're still [I]strongly considering[/I] developing it, and we hope that some of the work we're doing now will make it easier to develop should we choose to do so—but we haven't [I]committed[/I] to it.

I hope this helps to clarify our plans!

I Hi Ken and Omni Team.

I was one of the ones that put my detailed wish list up at the start of this thread. However, I (and possibly many here) would be more than happy with a compromise app that dropped many of the niceties, just to be able to see OO documents on the iPhone, and sync them the same way that you can with OF.

I (and possibly many others) could live with just:

1. A generic font like Helvetica
2. Basic formatting only (bold, italic, underline)
3. Basic colours or no colour initially.
4. System wide settings only (not document specific), like OmniFocus

In fact, even an OOReader app (no editing) for the iPhone would be helpful for using Outlines as reference documents when on the go. Not everything we wanted but a good start.


The iPhone is still the killer device for me. Even though I have access to an iPad there are so many times that I would have my iPhone

• In the school yard (I am a teacher)
• In the classroom (might also have my laptop)
• In the lunch room
• Walking around
• In the car
• At the shops
• At friends places
• At church, social, sporting venues


The iPad is smaller than my 15" MBP but it is still a big device. I don't intend to buy OO for the ipad (same as I didn't buy OF for the iPad) because I am usually near enough to a computer whenever I am near enough to the iPad.

My previous PDA was the Palm Tungsten T3, and my favourite outliner was ShadowPlan. Last year I converted all those outlines to OO via the ShadowPlan Mac beta desktop software. So I have been hoping for an integrated desktop/iPhone solution that will keep both sides up to date. I use OF with mobile me and it is great.

I have just bought CarbonFin Outliner to make up for the gap in Omni based outlining on the iPhone/iPod.

Interesting that at the Carbon Fin Outliner site he solely recommends OO desktop for the Mac - if you guys aren't bringing out OO iPhone anytime soon you might consider working with the dev to sync and show OO docs on CarbonFin - I think what most users want here as the "bread and butter" needs is a streamlined way to edit outlines in Mac OO and have the changes show automatically on an iPhone app without manual OPML exporting and uploading to cloud websites, and then back again to OO if you add data on the iPhone.

Thanks...
 

First let me say thanks to Derek and Ken for your thoughtful replies. I know full well that you can't please everyone all the time and we as consumers don't know how hard it is to meet Mac expectations on a iPhone. Kudos for the work you did on OmniFocus!

Managing expectations is tough. Like it or not, my expectation was raised simply by this thread. I wrongly thought -- they wouldn't be asking in a public forum for input into software that they were pretty sure they'd develop. To use a simple word picture, it would be like me asking my children, "If you could have ice cream, what favor would you like -- of course they'd think ice cream was coming!"

So again, thank you for managing our expectations and clarifying that OO for iPhone is still possible but not in development and not promised.

I do hope that you got some good input as to features -- if I were to summarize how I read this thread it would be that we ALL would LOVE to have a luxury, full featured model but would be happy with a stripped down, plain Jane version as long as it synced with the OO on our Mac's.

What you may not have expected is the PASSION with which we value you and your products -- especially OO. We don't use OO because it's the only thing on the market -- we use it because we think it's the BEST outliner for Mac (or any other platform) on the market!

It is because of this genuine PASSION that I would again like to strongly encourage you to make OO for the iPhone a HIGH priority (OK -- after OO4 and iPad version)! We are loyal partners and your strongest advocates. We want to tell our friends about how efficient and effective OO makes us.

So I close by asking this question -- what can we do to persuade you to make OO for the iPhone a reality?


[B]••• I encourage those who following this thread to chime in. There has been more than enough input on what to include or not include on OO for the iPhone. Share how you use OO on the Mac and how/why OO for iPhone would enhance your professional and personal life![/B]

[QUOTE=wpitman;86864]To use a simple word picture, it would be like me asking my children, "If you could have ice cream, what flavor would you like -- of course they'd think ice cream was coming!"[/QUOTE]

Aw-shucks, thanks Wpitman, that's exactly how I've been feeling!

I'm somewhat disillusioned with the iPad-focussed direction that Omni has taken, but have posted my thoughts in the [URL="http://forums.omnigroup.com/forumdisplay.php?f=24"]Omni Lounge[/URL], rather than taking this thread off topic.

Thanks in part to this thread, I finally decided to move full-time to TaskPaper. I was already using TaskPaper extensively on my iPad and iPod touch, benefitting greatly from the seamless sync and SimpleText.ws web service. But since it's now clear to me that OmniOutliner isn't going to give me what I want in the near-to-midrange future, I also decided to switch to TaskPaper for Mac.
It's been nice using OO all this time (since 2001). But now it's time to move on.

Catch y'all later!

New App - OmniNotes
 

I was typing notes from a meeting in OmniOutliner and had an epiphany:

As I was typing my meeting notes in OmniOutliner, I was thinking that it would be neat if there was a way that I could "store" all of my meeting notes in OmniOutliner - currently my meeting notes are scattered throughout my hard drive, and having to find and open them all individually and deal with multiple windows kind of sucks.

I was thinking that it would be neat that—borrowing an interface from OmniFocus—all of my OmniOutliner files that stored meeting notes could be listed in the sidebar, and you could group these notes via folders. Then all of my meeting notes would be in one spot, and I could organize them by project, committee, etc.

As I was thinking about note taking (versus outlining in general), I was reminded on how I have been on a never-ending search for a the ideal note taking app on the iPad (I even happened to look at three candidates last night, probably why I made the connection). I have purchased dozens of note taking apps for the iPad, and there are some very good ones, but non of them leave me completely satisfied, they all seem to have one or two great strengths and one or two great weaknesses. Some combine type and drawing, some add photos, some add attachments, some sync to various third party services, some have good text editing (but none of them do outlining/numbering), some of good interfaces, but none have strengths in all of these areas.

That led me to this old thread, and the thought that the iOS version of OmniOutliner is going to be different/limited in some ways compared to the desktop version.

Completing the circle, and realizing that a note-taking application doesn't need all of the bells and whistles that OmniOutliner has, maybe the best approach would be a new Omni app: OmniNotes.

OmniNotes:
•*Based on OmniOutliner, but with a few less bells and whistles
•*Database storage of all of its "files" in the app, using a sidebar like OmniFocus for managing individual notes
• Notes can have tags
• Sidebar supports Folders and Smart Folders for grouping and arranging notes
• Sync in a similar fashion to OmniFocus
• It would be nice to be able to have items in the outline to have checkboxes for To-Do's (meeting follow-ups). It would be nice if only a section of the "notes" would have the To-Do checkboxes, so the entire "agenda" didn't have to have checkboxes. Holy grail would be the ability to send the To-Do's to OmniFocus.

iPhone
 

Sorry to insist.
Became member of this group just to be able to ask: do not underestimate the importance of the iPhone

The merit of OO is that I profit from more than a decade of continuity through different OS'ses and systems. Still use material made with ACTA and MORE many years ago, from even before my gandchildren had been born
I use it for 3 classes of things: journals, random notes and instrucion lists
One reason to stick with OO was the confidence in continuity.
To be able to making notes and journal entries on an iPhone while traveling and transfer them to the Mac is great.

You are already diversifying. This is great. But just that is an argument to protect the abiolity of always being able to provide a solid app to fall back upon.

Just suppose there won't be some sort of OmniOutliner for the iPhone (not that I didn't wish it, but...) in the near future: Are there any recommendations for apps that play nicely with OmniOutliner? Queer question, I know, but what app do you use for notes on the iPhone? (I would love to recommend OmniOutliner to some iPhone folks)

Well when I gave up waiting I went to Carbon Fin Outliner for iPhone and iPad. you can import and export OPML.

I'm still surprised that Omni Graffle is a more viable app for Omni in the iOS world then their world class Outliner.

Thanks Rockyroad! The App look about more or less like the one I was looking for. Especially the OPML import and export looks good.

Great. My favourite outliner was ShadowPlan on a Palm Tungsten but that hardwares long gone :-)

Actually it's not a matter of good looks, but of interoperability: I love shuffling the entries from OO to OF, to OG, and OP without having to do copy and paste. Anything that comes to mind regarding a specific project should be easy to integrate into whatever application it fits.

CarbonFin outliner (iPhone/iPad versions available) is promising opml support via dropbox in the future, so that will provide some way of getting you outlines onto the phone. At the moment you can only import/export opml via their web site.

But it's probably best to regard CF Outliner as a read only viewer for OO outlines since if you edit the outline and export it back to OO you'll lose all the fancy OO features. For vanilla text outlines it seems fine in the experiments I've run so far.

Glad CarbonFin is moving to Dropbox, along with many other apps.
I agree that it's more of a read-only system.Its synchronization isn't item by item.
TaskPaper has a few issues but it does synchronization really well (native Mac app, native iPhone and iPod touch app, native iPad app, Web service). Switched to it from OO, for most of my outlining and note-taking needs, and haven't regretted it.

[QUOTE=psidnell;97045]it's probably best to regard CF Outliner as a read only viewer for OO outlines[/QUOTE]

Does it read any OO outline, or would I need to do some sort of Save As...?

[QUOTE=henri;97064]Does it read any OO outline, or would I need to do some sort of Save As...?[/QUOTE]

Currently you have to save the OO document as opml, the upload the opml doc to your account on the CarbonFin website, then sync your iPhone to download the doc from their website.

Then make your changes on the iPhone.

Then do everything again in reverse.

Easy :-)

When/If CarbonFin have native DropBox support in the app (which is on their roadmap) them most of that will go away and everyone can just read/write the opml to DropBox.

I haven't had time to read the whole thread, but when I imagine using OO on my iPhone, I think I really only need a viewer that has the ability to take in some small data entry on already existing columns. I don't care to add columns, but I'd like to use the checkboxes and maybe a Date Inserter, and to add new items.

I guess, basically, I want to be able to create a budget and a shoping list that I can use in an OO viewer app on my phone. (I don't like OminFocus for this).
Something I can check off items (without having them disappear) or add items.
I don't need to structure the document.

I guess that amounts to Data Entry, but not Structural Design.

I would really want any automatic level stylings to show up though.

On the iPhone, entering a mass of text is a pain. IT is more for instant note-taking. I might be standing at a bus station or sitting in train when taking a few notes related to one my projects would be quite helpful. Or a memo after receiving a call. Instead of unpacking my MacBook, I just jot them down on an iPhone. And later, I don't want to spend time sifting notes and memos and whatever. I want them to sync into a "dropbox" and then copy them into the OO file they belong to.
That's more or less my use case.

1) Maybe in the form of drill in details.

2) No

3) Would be nice

4) Editing Needed

5) I'd need the iPhone and iPad to sync directly without needing a mac or the cloud. If I go on the road and there's no internet connection (I travel a lot, sometimes to places that barely have electricity), I'd want the iPhone to mirror the iPad as much as possible.

You guys are awesome! Keep up the awesomeness!

Why not iphone app?
 

The solution in my mind for the small screen is very simple:

-in portrait mode no columns

-when the iphone rotates in landscape mode along with the outline appears one column. If the document has many columns the user can scroll with a touch gesture and see the rest of the columns one by one (in any given moment will be only one column visible).

-no need for advance styling (personally I'm ok with just plain text)
-no attachments, just a placeholder to remind that there is a file in that row

thanks

I agree
 

Having the ability to update my outlines on my iphone would be priceless

OmniOutliner for iPhone
 

[QUOTE=DeanND;99169]Having the ability to update my outlines on my iphone would be priceless[/QUOTE]

May I second this idea? I love OmniOutliner for all manner of things. Frankly I have to use OmniFocus and another checklist app on my iPhone simply because there is no OmniOutliner on the iPhone. I would snap this up in a heartbeat.

As for the columnar views: I do like the idea of columns showing only when rotated. Frankly the columnar data is less important to me on the iPhone, or rather in the situations I would turn to the iPhone for that checklist, than on the main computer. So long as the columns were not lost going from one to the other, I'd be thrilled.

If I could possibly use the iPad app on the iPhone, I'd go grab it now. That would largely complete the suite of useful tools I need on my iPhone.

Thanks for your time folks. Your products work and work well consistently. Bravo.
Ad Astra Per Aspera,
Kevin
**************************
[email]yngtor@mac.com[/email]
**************************

Check [URL="http://forums.omnigroup.com/showpost.php?p=86812&postcount=109"]this post[/URL] for more info. (About to merge this thread with that one, but wanted to post here first so you get all the relevant notifications.)

1) I don't much use columns, so no.

2) Bold/italic/coloured text support would be nice, but beyond that…meh.

3) Don't often use attachments, either.

4) Editing is the point for me. I use it to take notes in meetings, organise my thoughts for projects/designs/etc., and write up scripts for presentations, among other things. I want to be able to do bits of work without having to bring the iPad or laptop (e.g. at a pub waiting for mates before a metal gig).

5) I'm OK with managing my syncing myself, as I do with the iPad version. Really good merging of changes would be nice, but I manage without it in the iPad & Mac versions.

Other suggestions? DropBox support (on iPad, too).

@parmod
That works as a first step. Once I have synced that to the Mac and finished the job, this note is gone - but may be relevant to the following project. So I have to copy the context into OO where I store all this notes (and comments in a second column).
Not quite the elegant style I was thinking of, but it works, yes.

I'm assuming @paramod is a spam bot - new account + random phrase about an Omni product + an unrelated link. [URL="http://www.google.co.uk/webhp?hl=en#hl=en&sugexp=pfwc&cp=14&gs_id=5v&xhr=t&q=south+park+terrance+and+phillip&pq=south+park+canadian+characters&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&site=webhp&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=south+park+ter&aq=0&aqi=g4&aql=f&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=b12b76dba14df61d&biw=1920&bih=1018"]Canadian Meds[/URL]

I thought it was a reply to my post #126.

When spam bots pass the Turing test, we're all in trouble. [URL="http://www.google.co.uk/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=dates+fruit&oe=UTF-8&redir_esc=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=1920&bih=1018"]Hot Dates[/URL]

[QUOTE=tbo;102189]I thought it was a reply to my post #126.[/QUOTE]
Both parmod and psidnell are spammers.

[QUOTE=Greg Jones;102191]Both parmod and psidnell are spammers.[/QUOTE]

Psidnell has been making non spam posts for quite a while, maybe his account was compromised?

Though if you actually check out psidnell's links, yet another conclusion might be reached ;)

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;102194]Though if you actually check out psidnell's links, yet another conclusion might be reached ;)[/QUOTE]

I must remember not to use irony - it rarely ends well.

[QUOTE=psidnell;102195]I must remember not to use irony - it rarely ends well.[/QUOTE]
I was quite gratified that I hadn't yet fixed myself any sort of morning beverage by the time I checked out the hot dates! :)

It's a little clunky but OO can now export OPML directly to CarbonFin outliner which syncs between iPad and iPhone quite nicely. At least it's a way of getting your notes onto the phone without too many steps.

I think going the other way is slightly more complex still.

I need OO on my iPhone
 

CarbonFin's web interface just doesn't quite cut it ... and of course it requires an internet connection. But their iPhone app is pretty nice.

If you don't want to build your own iPhone OO app, then please get together with the CarbonFin people and make some nice integration happen.

If you DO want to have your own iPhone OO app, then please hire me to accelerate the process! :-)

+1 for an iPhone version of OmniOutliner!

[QUOTE=MrTiff;104913]CarbonFin's web interface just doesn't quite cut it ... and of course it requires an internet connection. But their iPhone app is pretty nice.

If you don't want to build your own iPhone OO app, then please get together with the CarbonFin people and make some nice integration happen.

If you DO want to have your own iPhone OO app, then please hire me to accelerate the process! :-)[/QUOTE]

Just to correct something, CarbonFin does not require an internet connection to use. It only requires it if you choose to sync with the online version of the outliner.

It's interface is quite simple :)

and another one
 

+1 for an iPhone version of OmniOutliner!

OmniOutliner for iPhone Could Be Feature "Light"
 

I would want to be able to create checklists and other outlines using OmniOutliner on Mac or iPad, but maybe see only the basics on iPhone. To me, the features consistent with CarbonFin Outliner would be all I need on the iPhone, perhaps coupled with the ability to filter or sort by column information but not necessarily to see it on one screen. in other words, to use an outline but not necessarily do all the advanced work to set it up. So my main required features for an iPhone version would be:

Basically, just as I do with OmniFocus, I want to do more advanced/detailed creating/management on iPad or Mac, but be able to put the output to use on iPhone.

1. See the core outline (the hierarchy)
2. Expand/collapse sections individually or all at once
3. Add/remove/edit/rearrange times
4. Show/hide checked items
5. Uncheck all items
6. Sync with iPad and Mac versions (document level sync)
7. (preferably) Drill into an item to edit additional column data (perhaps only if the columns are pre-defined on Mac or iPad)
8. (maybe) Filter or sort on additional column information
9. (not so much me but I bet many would want) View/hide note associated with outline steps

Oh, and this is not iPhone specific, but I think there should be an OmniFocus template for Outliner that lets me plan projects in Outliner and then export to OmniFocus very seamlessly. I realize this capability is sort of there now but it doesn't seem as seamless as it could be.

1) Multiple data types would be nice, but as long as OO iPhone doesn't mess up column types for existing documents, I'd be happy. If OO iPhone doesn't support column types, it would also be nice if I could later use OO Mac/iPad with something like data detectors to convert text columns from iPhone to dates, numbers, etc.

2) OO iPhone would be very useful even with plain text; simple formatting (bold, italic) would be great. Full formatting is by no means necessary, again, as long as OO iPhone doesn't mess up formatting on existing documents (it wouldn't even have to display it, just preserve it), that's fine.

3) No.

4) Need basic editing capabilities. A viewer would be better than nothing. DHTML is insufficient for my needs—see below.

5) Would ideally like iCloud syncing or Dropbox compatibility, with round trip capability, so that a file created on one device would be editable on others.

I would like to use OO to replace much of what I currently do in plain text note apps on Mac/iPhone/iPad right now—writing down notes, collecting simple data, brainstorming.

Here's my basic requirements:

* Create and edit basic outlines. Multi-column support would be ideal, column data type support not necessary.
* Be able to expand and format outlines created on OO iPhone with OO Mac/iPad.
* Be able to continue to access and edit these OO files through iPhone (and iPad and Mac)—so some sort of cloud-based storage such as iCloud or Dropbox would be ideal. The way iWork currently does cloud sync between iPhone and iPad is a good example, but I would want this functionality on Mac as well.
* With respect to handling feature set differences between pltaforms—it's fine if I can't change formatting (or column types, or other fancy things) done on Mac, but I'd like that formatting to be preserved. If maintaining formatting between Mac/iPad/iPhone is too complicated, I'd be happy to be happy to be able to share simpler outlines between these apps, as long as there's a "simple mode" on Mac and iPad that restricts the features of those apps to ensure compatibility with iPhone. I could use this least common denominator feature set on all devices to compose outlines, and then use the Mac or iPad to format them—that would be an acceptable workflow as well.

Hope to see OO for iPhone after the release of OO 4! I'd gladly pay for a new iPhone app and buy upgrades to existing Mac and iPad versions of OO for this sort of capability, which would make OO infinitely more useful to me.

importing requirements
 

Originally I was going to say it would need to import a Bonsai outline and support every element of the outline, but since I need to migrate now and OO for iPhone doesn't exist, then it will have to import and support every element of the existing iPhone outliners' (CarbonFin, Zeptoliner, JOutliner Simple Outliner, etc.) files.

And yes, absolutely must support full editing on the iPhone. I've been using Bonsai on my Palm, and I do ALL entry and editing on the Palm. I *never* use the desktop (there's no Mac version of it anyway). I live inside Bonsai; a handheld outliner is the nexus of my life.

Zeptoliner is crashing at startup, so now I'm looking at the other three; I haven't picked one yet.

-Walter

@Ken So omni has had a [URL="http://forums.omnigroup.com/showpost.php?p=86812&postcount=109"]couple of years[/URL] to consider how best to make a iPhone version of OmniOutliner... any progress?

I have said it before, and I will keep saying it: Omni makes some of the best software for OSX and/or iOS. I have deep respect for their engineers.

Which is why I feel so utterly disappointed when it comes to things like Dropbox support and an iPhone version of OmniOutliner.

I can more than understand why an app like OmniGraffle might only be iPad only. But outlines are something I want and need to edit on my iPhone as well as my iPad. I need to be able to edit them any time a thought, or correction, or change comes to me. When I wake up in the middle of the night or when I am on the train going downtown.

Once again I feel like you guys are letting Perfect be the enemy of Good Enough. Yes it is hard to scale the UI down to the iPhone, but I would really like to see you support some core subset, and figure it out from there. When it comes to outline editing some functionality is far far better than no functionality.

This (and Dropbox support) keeps me using an inferior program (CarbonFin), rather than the one I would much rather be using: because I can actually get work done with the inferior one.

So I am sympathetic to the problem that it is complex and hard to scale an interface down to the iPhone. But it is a solvable problem...

Why not edit them on the iPad like the rest of us do?

Even if Omni decided today that they really ought to build an iPhone client for OO, the hard truth is that they just don't have the resources to build one any time soon, given their current commitments. It might be a different story in terms of urgency if they had no mobile OO client, but they do.

How much are you willing to spend for an iPhone client for OO? Answers along the lines of "99 cents" or "it should be free, I already bought the iPad app" likely reinforce the status quo.

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;109726]Why not edit them on the iPad like the rest of us do?

...

How much are you willing to spend for an iPhone client for OO? Answers along the lines of "99 cents" or "it should be free, I already bought the iPad app" likely reinforce the status quo
[/QUOTE]

Because: I don't carry my iPad with me everywhere, all the time, like I do with my phone?

We don't know what Omni's commitments or resources are, and unless they come out and say what they are, there isn't a lot of point in speculating on them or not.

However I will point out that it isn't like it needs to be written from scratch. Much of their old UI code would continue to work, with (very likely) little to no changes to the vast majority of the back end code.

New front end (UI) code would need to be written, and I don't want to minimize that task. But it isn't like a brand new app needs to be written.

As for price, I do admit I frankly expect it to be a universal app supporting both platforms. [[B][I]Please ignore the rest of this Paragraph.[/I][/B] I misunderstood where you were going with the status quo bit]
You say that it asking for it to be a universal app is "reinforcing the status quo", but you make no case for why that is a bad thing.


Especially when you consider just how much OmniOutliner costs. Its a $20 app, this puts it in the upper bracket of iOS app prices. As such I expect more from an app at that price, and I don't think I am wrong to. I expect it is going to support Dropbox, I expect it is going to be a universal app. And I don't think those are unreasonable things.

Right now, to me, OO is doing too little to justify the high cost.

That being said, I will make this commitment though: If OmniOutliner supported Dropbox, and had a separate iPhone app, I would buy both gleefully so long as the iPhone all cost something in the $5-$10 range. I don't know if other people will, but I will.

Now mind you, for what I am willing to pay for just iPhone support; I get iPhone and iPad support via CarbonFin Outliner. It isn't as advanced or powerful app, it definitely isn't as good looking. But do you know what? I can get stuff done.

I would much rather be using OO, and am willing to pay a high premium for it. But if they aren't willing to meet me halfway and let me, then all the excuses in the world won't matter...

Okay, forget syncing for now... what about OmniOutliner for iPhone?? We have hundreds, if not thousands, of OmniOutliner documents sitting in our Dropbox, and we can't even OPEN THEM on our iPhone! We ALWAYS have our iPhone sitting in our pocket, but we RARELY have our iPad with us when we need to access our OmniOutliner documents on the fly. Can you PLEASE give us SOMETHING for the iPhone? If only an OmniOutliner READER, that would be enough.

[QUOTE=JockM;109733]Because: I don't carry my iPad with me everywhere, all the time, like I do with my phone?[/QUOTE]
That about sums it up. I've got a laptop for real work, and an iPhone for fieldwork. No heavy lifting on the document when I'm doing actual heavy lifting. But synching and checking-marking completions... or just being able to review the [REDACTED] document would be useful.

[QUOTE=JockM;109733]Right now, to me, OO is doing too little to justify the high cost.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. [i]As in:[/i] it doesn't work on a device that I use.

[QUOTE=JockM;109733]That being said, I will make this commitment though: If OmniOutliner supported Dropbox, and had a separate iPhone app, I would buy both gleefully so long as the iPhone all cost something in the $5-$10 range. I don't know if other people will, but I will.[/QUOTE]
I'd buy a $5 iPhone viewer and I'd shell out $10 if it let me check boxes. Adding or deleting simple text lines would be gravy.

[QUOTE=JockM;109733]I would much rather be using OO, and am willing to pay a high premium for it. But if they aren't willing to meet me halfway and let me, then all the excuses in the world won't matter...[/QUOTE]
See, now you're just being argumentative. We've already got apologists explaining why "we can't" is a perfectly reasonable explanation from Omni.

I love OO, but after they dropped the ball on supporting the iDevice that came out first, and is in far more hands than the pad, it's pretty clear they've lost their Jobsian fire. Next up, expect to hear: "We can't make OO4 compatible with OO3 documents", then two paragraphs of weaksauce to justify why your work library won't be making the migration.

It's been a great run on the laptop and an astonishing disappointment in iOS. It'll be interesting to see what the future holds.

For heaven's sake, it's a PHONE.

If you want to be able to do an OO reader for your phone, export it as html, put it in dropbox or some other webdav and you can view it with your phone in safari. You should be able to set it up as a folder script since the Applescript dictionary supports export as file type so that when you dropped an OO file in a folder, it would automatically export it into another folder as HTML. You could also do this by using Hazel.

J.

[QUOTE=JohnJ80;111290]For heaven's sake, it's a PHONE.
[/QUOTE]

No it isn't. It is a smartphone. It is a little computer that I carry around with me at all times. Because of it I don't need to carry a laptop nearly as much as I used to.

Pages runs on it, as does Numbers. I can write apps in iLuaBox, and compose music in GarageBand. I can make illustrations, and edit pictures, and a whole lot more.

And most importantly it is the the reason why I don't carry a little pad of paper with me. I take notes with it all the time. Oddly enough those notes are mostly in the form of outlines.

So no it isn't unreasonable to say that I want to be able to read and [B][I]edit[/I][/B] the same outlines that on my iPhone as I can on my iPad and my Laptop.

It might be just a phone to you, but I get work done on it...

I've been accused of doing way more than I should on a smartphone. That said, I find the text editing (beyond short emails) and spreadsheet capabilities to be the sort of thing that one does in desperation. Having done it extensively (in desperation, of course).

One of the the things that drives me nuts about smartphone apps is when they are dumbed down for use on the handset and it's not done well (most of the time). It's really difficult to design an iPhone app that has good functionality on mobile platforms as well as the desktop. It's a case of focus, concentrating on core issues and getting it right. Not an easy thing.

I would like an OO version that runs on the iPhone but it's not something I'm going to hyperventilate about in the short term - I want to see it done well (an Omni strong suit). I'd much rather they got decent syncing at the cell level working on OO between platforms, more akin to what OF does between mac and iPad. Dropbox syncing is really a crap idea down deep because you can't resolve file edits done on both platforms which ultimately will cause you significant data loss at some point. Everyone carps about "Dropbox support" but I've really not seen it done well at all and I've been burned about it more times than I really like to think about. So my view is that this is usually an uninformed opinion not based on experience or much thought about it. I really don't want to see another Dropbox stopgap pseudo-sync implementation done again.

I'd like to see OO on the phone, but I'd want to see the feature set very carefully selected - it would need the ability to email as rich text in an email and it would need to seamlessly integrate with the iPad and DT versions but the feature set would need to be carefully selected for simplicity since a lot of it wouldn't make sense on the iPhone where text editing is better than before, but still pretty much sucks.

I don't need OO4. I need OO iPhone.
 

I love OO, but I need to see them on my iPhone so I'm beginning to explore other products than Omnigroup, but I would rather continue to use OO.

1) Yes, multiple columns

2) No formatting

3) No attachment support

4) It needs to be editable. What's the point otherwise?

5) It needs to sync across my devices. Right now I have all my OO3s in Dropbox because they need to sync across devices.

I'd pay the same as I paid for OmniFocus iPhone.

Design
 

[QUOTE=Ken Case;86812]I apologize for any lingering confusion over our iPhone plans!

I've already said this on our blog, but it bears repeating here: Designing a great touch-based interface for text outlines is not an easy problem. [/QUOTE]


I find the Clear app ( [url]http://www.realmacsoftware.com/clear/[/url] ) to be inspiring. It's a touch interface that fully takes advantage of multitouch and eliminates so many buttons and cruft.

Here's a happy user of OmniFocus for Mac and iPhone who over the time became aware, that he needs an outliner and of course I licensed OmniOutliner (Pro) today.
I knew about the missing options for the iPhone and so I will not complain. Apart from creating new notes when I'm visiting customers and editing and adding tasks to OmniFocus I don't use my iPhone much for creating data - I do that in my bureau/shop -,[B]but[/B] being able to [B]view[/B] my files on the iPhone is absolutely essential for me. It's my business-to-go. I knew I will have to workaround this problem with exporting to .pdf or .html and I'm mentally prepared to do so for a long time to come …

… but please, whatever great app for OmniOutliner on the iPhone you may release sometime in the future: Give us a viewer!

Bernd

PS: And thanks for your SyncServer! :)

I heartily second. An Outline viewer would be a very, very important tool for me.

My needs .. desires :) ... for OmniOutliner on iPhone
 

Sorry, joining this thread late. I use Omnioutliner on Mac - excellent tool. Would love to see it on iPhone. In answer to your initial questions on what user needs/desires would be:

1) Do you need multiple columns of data, column types, or the column summary options?

Multiple columns would be nice, but not essential for me. However, status checkboxes would be important for me.

2) Do you need formatting support? Or just plain text like OmniFocus for the iPhone.

Plain text is fine for me ... although, status checkboxes would imply more then plain text wouldn't it :) In any case, formatting support (for me) does not need to be extensive.

3) Do you need attachment support?

No.

4) Should it be a viewer only, or have editing capabilities? If just a viewer only, how well does the Quick Look preview/DHTML export meet your needs? (Viewing the export on the iPhone that is)

Definitely need to be able to edit as well as view.

5) What kind of syncing expectations do you have? This would be one big reason why OmniOutliner 4 needs to be developed first as OO3 is not designed for merging synced changes.

Syncing is not required for me, because I would plan to use Dropbox for that purpose (thus making outline files accessible on Mac and on iPhone).

1) Definitely yes. These wonderful features are the ones making OO stand out!

2) Yes. Before you introduced that, I was ok without it; but now, I would feel uncomfortable if I could not find these features handy!

3) No need. But if you can provide it with limited file size, why not? But I hate it to be too slow when running the app.

4) No Viewer only please! We need to edit things/create things/sync things on the go!

5) MindNode's iCloud sync is simple and works, just like iWorks. Why not just fully embrace iCloud since it's the future and offers standard interfaces. It's not ideal at all for a user to manage a cloud account for each service he is using. Now I have Evernote, Omni, iCloud - just too many to manage!

Please work harder, though i know you must work hard, I cannot wait to use OO for iPhone! Good Luck! :)

[QUOTE=JohnJ80;112082]I would like an OO version that runs on the iPhone but it's not something I'm going to hyperventilate about in the short term.[/QUOTE]
I didn't hyperventilate about it in the short term, either. But the short term was over years ago.

The iPhone came out in June, 2007. Apple released the SDK in March, 2008. When did Omni release their first app for iOS? Was that for the phone or the pad? What year is it now? Who cares: MS is going to release Office for iOS (likely this November) before Omni can even release an OO [I]viewer[/I] for the phone.

I use an outliner to get work done. An outliner, not a todo list. I calibrate that outline in the field. I need a solution that will facilitate this process. This has gotten to the point I'm starting to look at other outliners simply to get away from Omni – in the same way I embrace Apple Maps just to get away from Google.

Yes. It's [I]that[/I] frustrating.

Sync / iPhone / organisation
 

I just noticed that OmniOutliner for iPad still lives on my iPad without much being touched. The reason still being the missing sync with the Mac - it's just kind of isolated (though I understand I could probably e-mail things back and forth).

Also - once sync capabilities are in place - I assume the lack of organisation options for groups of outlines could turn out as an issue for even average pro users with dozens of templates / hundreds of outlines in day to day production use.

Last not least I must say the one device that I absolutely permanently carry with me is not the iPad but the iPhone. And what I hear from people (even those who love their iPads) their iPhones are by nature far more ubiquitous than their tablets.

Just my thoughts. The usefulness of an outliner rises and falls with the ubiquitousness of the content on whichever device just happens to be handy wherever I am and whatever I do. Hence I think sync + iPhone app are fundamental requirements to boosting usefulness of OmniOutliner (with organisation features then helping to cope with that boost...).

Just my 2ct - please consider.

Best regards, Chris

I carry the iPhone when I want to contact or be contacted by other people. I carry the iPad whenever I think I might want a computing/browsing device. The latter is a far greater fraction of the day than the former :)

I don't see any reason why Omni couldn't build a document browser that offered more tools for organizing documents, but I would be surprised if you could show even a handful of people who use dozens of templates and hundreds of outlines in their day to day use! Might not be the appropriate design target...

I will only buy iPad version AFTER iPhone version
 

[B]I will only buy iPad version AFTER iPhone version[/B]

To show that there is still huge demand for this, users have been adding replies regularly for the last 4 years. This is my first post. I'm a new user and almost didn't buy Omni Outliner because of the lack of iPhone syncing. If CarbonFin had a native OSX app, I would have put up with its limited functionality and gone with that. I won't be buying the iPad version until I have an iPhone version for all the reasons listed above, and some more below.

But I'm pleased that Omni asked the question, so here are my answers:

1) No - I can live without multiple columns, etc., at least initially.*

2) No - plain text would be absolutely fine.*

3) No - attachment support isn't required.*

*As long as saving the file on the iPhone doesn't remove or corrupt the non-visible data.

4) A viewer with status check ability would be better than nothing, editing support would be much, much better. I wouldn't pay money for a viewer, but definitely would for an editor. If it's too difficult then even just the ability to add lines that come out in a iPhone-edited-format in OSX outliner would be acceptable to me, and still much more useful than a reader.

5) Dropbox would be perfect for syncing. All outlines can be kept in various project specific folders, synced via dropbox. That way when access is required all you need is to find and open via dropbox, then save back to dropbox. I could live with iCloud syncing, but for serious work where directory structures are required (and the ability to view OPMLs in mind mapping software) I would much prefer dropbox.

I have an iPad and an iPhone, and despite the screen size and processor power restrictions, I would much much rather have omni outliner on my iPhone than my iPad.

As everyone else has mentioned the iPhone is with me at all times. So when I think of something on the road or in the middle of the night, I want to be able to open and edit a basic version of any relevant outline. I don't want to have to predict which outlines I may want to access and save them as OPML's. I want to be able to open and save all OO3's (or OO4's) normally on any device, as I can with .pages, .numbers, .key, .xlsx, .docx, .pptx, .JPG, .CR2, etc.

Also iPhones are personal devices, iPads are very often shared devices, as such my iPad is much less secure than my iPhone. I often pass my iPad to a client or friend, even the kids and babysitter know the iPad password. I'd rather they couldn't easily stumble into my business plan.

I have OmniFocus for OSX, iPad and iPhone and only use the iPad version when working with someone on a shared GTD exercise. So once I've been using the iPhone version for a while, if I find myself wishing for more screen real estate and functionality, I'll get the iPad version (which I hope can be password protected).

So to me a limited functionality version available in Q1 2013 would be much better than a full functionality version in Q4 2014. Just make the limitations clear in the blurb, then you can plough the revenue into expanding the team to develop a full featured version.

Why not work with CarbonFin?
 

[B]Why not work with CarbonFin?[/B]

Regarding Omni's difficulties of designing an iPhone app with adequate ergonomics and features. CarbonFin is nearly perfect in terms of an iPhone outliner. It allows you to easily produce, edit and fold outlines, and mark statuses etc.

If Omni still don't see sufficient reason to allocate resources to an iPhone outliner (this thread started 4 years ago...) then could a collaboration with CarbonFin be arranged?

All an OmniFin version would need to be able to do over the current CarbonFin is to be able to open oo3's (/oo4's) from dropbox, perform the usual CarbonFin type editing, and save back to dropbox. As long as saving the file on the iPhone doesn't remove or corrupt the non-visible data.

This shouldn't cannibalise either product, as CarbonFin is just a simple one column outliner, and Omni Outliner does way more. The ability to edit CarbonFin outlines on OSX could bring in new Omni Outliner OSX users. Similarly a significant number of the Omni Outliner user base would buy CarbonFin (or OmniFin if a different app was needed) with minimal input required from the under-resourced Omni team...

Just a thought. Either way 4 years is too long to wait for oo3 to go iPhone portable.

I've tried and like CarbonFin but for navigating large outlines find it a little awkward for reasons I don't think I can articulate, it just feels a little clunky.

For a while I actually used OmniFocus with a special folder for notes but didn't really like cluttering up the database with fairly large semi-permanent entries as it slows down the sync.

At the moment I'm using Taskpaper for a few large reference outlines. The format is structured plain text, the sync works and it's available on iPhone, iPad and iOS.

Once omni get their new syncing framework into the current two OO implementations perhaps an iPhone version will seem more compelling.

Thanks for all the feedback about what you would and wouldn't use in an iPhone edition of OmniOutliner! I know a lot of you are eager to see this as soon as possible; I want it yesterday myself.

But before we build OmniOutliner for iPhone, we think it's important to add automatic document syncing to OmniOutliner—and, of course, to ship the long-awaited OmniOutliner 4. So that's [URL="http://www.omnigroup.com/blog/entry/omni-plans-for-2013"][I]our immediate plan for 2013[/I][/URL].

(After those ship? We'll see!)

Please add me to the list of folks who want an iPhone version ASAP.

BTW I am the original creator of ALDUS persuasion (later published by Adobe) and ECCO PRO (Published first by my company Arabesque, and then bought by NetManage). Both of those products relied heavily on outlining :) .

Hi Pete ... I cannot describe how much I miss Ecco Pro. It's remarkable to me that a program designed over twenty years ago, and undeveloped for over 15 years, still has not been surpassed by anything else. Even OO, as good as it is, has little of the flexibility and usability of Ecco Pro.

If OO just added filtering based on columnar values, it would start to approach what Ecco could do in terms of user-determined flexibility, and the ability to see the same data in customized configurations. But I haven't seen that among the hints of what's coming in OO4, so I'm not optimistic ... but I can dream.

Any chance of someone developing Ecco for the Mac someday? What would it take?

[QUOTE=rogbar;119664]Hi Pete ... I cannot describe how much I miss Ecco Pro. It's remarkable to me that a program designed over twenty years ago, and undeveloped for over 15 years, still has not been surprised by anything else. Even OO, as good as it is, has little of the flexibility and usability of Ecco Pro.

If OO just added filtering based on columnar values, it would start to approach what Ecco could do in terms of user-determined flexibility, and the ability to see the same data in customized configurations. But I haven't seen that among the hints of what's coming in OO4, so I'm not optimistic ... but I can dream.

Any chance of someone developing Ecco for the Mac someday? What would it take?[/QUOTE]

Thanks so much for the very kind words about Ecco. It's very much appreciated. You can tell from my request for an iphone version of OO that there aren't any plans in the works for a new version of ecco. I think I heard that Ecco PRO does work over Parallels, and i think its still available somewhere.

Pete

I'm just joining OmniOutliner, and lack of iphone support is a key issue for me. I'm using Mac and iPad version, and can't find an iphone app that can work with OmniOutliner effectively -- several outliners support OPML but not multiple columns; List Maker supports multiple columns but not OPML; List Maker supports column import/export via CSV but OmniOutliner supports CSV in export only.

The primary use cases are:
a) adding new outlines, and new entries on existing outlines, on-the-fly
b) editing outline entries -- both those added on the iphone and existing entries from iPad and Mac
c) viewing outlines for quick reference

1. Column support is critical -- need to be able to add and edit outline nodes and not necessarily the columns, but saving must retain the existing columns. CarbonFin Outliner can edit the nodes but overwrites the column data.

2. don't need text formatting on the iphone.

3. attachment support is nice-to-have, but not critical.

4. Editing is critical -- at least the main text in the outline node, and not necessarily the other columns which could be view only in initial release. Would like ability to edit columns in later release.

5. Sync is critical -- this is the entire point of having OmniOutliner on Mac and iPhone

Thanks

Waiting and dreaming. sometimes the time goes so slow.

I'm using Taskpaper for somethings but it isn't a pure outliner.

I can't live without OmniOutliner. Works for everything. Fast, clear and intuitive. I hope the version 4 don´t change its nature.

And the iPhone version will be a killer one. My home screen has a place for it.

fear vs greed
 

For me the driver is fear (need), not desire (features). I really want to keep more and more of my life in OmniOutliner but I am fearful that I'll need to refer to something when I'm out and about and it won't be there on my iPhone.

As a minimum feature set to remove that fear, I really just need a "view" capability along with OmniSync to get the info onto my phone. This would "enable" me to fully use OO on my iPad and Mac without the fear that's stopping me.

I want OO for iPhone. I don't do iPad, just the iPhone and Macbook Pro. It need not be full featured to be desirable because nobody in their right mind would try to use it the same way as the full version on the Mac.

It does need to be editable, sync enabled, simple, clean and fast. No multi-column or attachments, minimal formatting. Access to content and quick, simple editing. collapsable topics, checkboxes. It seems like the iPad version could be the basis, make this one simpler and shorten the development cycle.

Please do this!
 

It seems like a gaping hole in the Omni suite. I'm a writer who lives out of OmniOutliner. I've got all my stuff synced between my Mac and my iPad, but then when I'm out on the town with just my iPhone, I have to fly blind and settle for some random outline app that doesn't have my files in it, then copy and paste its contents later on. For those who've been living similarly, I checked out a bunch of them and have found "Cloud Outliner" to offer the most Omni-like experience. Has anyone found a better option to hold us over?

If it's not actually going to happen, Omni, we can handle being told so. But please don't string us along for another year (having told us it could [I]possibly maybe[/I] be in the works after OmniPresence was released) on a pipe dream.

2014…
 

…and still no OO for iPhone in sight. That is, how many years?

Not to be contrarian, but I'd never use it on the iPhone. By the time you take tha little screen and add the keyboard in landscape mode, it's pretty much unusable. It would be the same experience as with other outliners I tried (but then never used).

I'm a heavy user of OO on the Mac and iPad but would not use it on the iPhone.

J.

[QUOTE=JohnJ80;128900]Not to be contrarian, but I'd never use it on the iPhone. By the time you take tha little screen and add the keyboard in landscape mode, it's pretty much unusable. It would be the same experience as with other outliners I tried (but then never used).

I'm a heavy user of OO on the Mac and iPad but would not use it on the iPhone.

J.[/QUOTE]
I do (with Cloud Outliner). Not for the big work but for adding / editing thoughts.

[QUOTE=petelp;119673]Thanks so much for the very kind words about Ecco. It's very much appreciated. You can tell from my request for an iphone version of OO that there aren't any plans in the works for a new version of ecco. I think I heard that Ecco PRO does work over Parallels, and i think its still available somewhere.

Pete[/QUOTE]

Hi Pete,
I'm another transplant from ECCO. In fact, it was one of Roger's posts that led me here in 2009. He had posted a question about ECCO here on the forum and my google search hit it; which brought me here. Great program! I first found it at a trade show in NYC so long ago. Just figured I'd say hi.
It's kind of interesting, and reassuring, that you've also found your way here to OO.

Later, Scott

[QUOTE=JohnJ80;128900]Not to be contrarian, but I'd never use it on the iPhone. By the time you take tha little screen and add the keyboard in landscape mode, it's pretty much unusable. It would be the same experience as with other outliners I tried (but then never used).

I'm a heavy user of OO on the Mac and iPad but would not use it on the iPhone.

J.[/QUOTE]

I would most likely use it to review outlines. With my current workflow, I would love to be able to check my notes on the go. iPad is great for meetings, but the iPhone is better when I get asked questions randomly away from my computer and iPad and want to quickly look up an outlines.

Hi,

I too am eager for an iPhone version of OO...

With the new (although still rumoured) larger screens for iPhone 6 and "desktop class" 64 bit processors, surely the time is ripe for a high quality version of OO on iPhone?

Great to read the post in this discussion from Ken early last year saying it's a question of "when" rather than "if" for OO iPhone.

With the new versions of OO for Mac and iPad complete, the new OF for Mac close (the beta is [B]awesome[/B])... surely that just leaves the iOS 7 lick of paint for OF iPad... and... OO for iPhone! ;)

It would be awesome if the release of OO iPhone coincided with the release of large-screen iPhone 6 and iOS 8... I can dream...!

Many thanks to Ken and crew for continually producing first-rate software. From what I've seen of the new OF Mac, it's the best yet which is really saying something.

James