$40? Seriously? [OmniFocus for iPad Pricing Feedback]
 

Ok, I was one of those anxiously awaiting OmniFocus for the iPad. I have the Mac and iPhone versions. I use them a lot. I was excited to expand my use to my iPad, since I use it for much of my day-to-day work, and having it for maintaining my projects and tasks makes great sense.

But, the price point was high enough that I haven't bought it, yet. I might, but I'm seriously reconsidering my investment in OmniFocus, and I've very disappointed that there wasn't some kind of a 2 or 3 day introductory period when we could purchase it for a more reasonable investment of $15-$20.

Yes, in the grand scheme of life, $40 isn't a huge investment. However, when added to the $20 for OmniFocus iPhone, and $80 for the Mac, it's a little stratospheric. (Not to mention all of my other OmniGroup products!)

I'm pretty disappointed. It seems like you're milking loyalty. And now I'm very torn.

To each his own. Personally, I would have gladly plunked down $80 for this app. I've been beta testing it for the past month and use the iPad app more than the Mac version now. It's not an exaggeration to say that OF iPad has more than doubled the value of my iPad to me.

Omni charges what they believe their apps are worth to their users. To me, the money I've spent on Omni products over the years has never been a bad investment. My productivity gains completely swamp the cost of the products.

Milking? Are You Serious?
 

If $40 is a lot you probably don't need Omnifocus for the iPad.

It's interesting to read about how people relate to the money thing. I guess everyone is in a different financial place or perhaps it's perceived value that is at the root of the issue.

Regardless, to accuse Omni Group of "milking" their customer base is wrong. People need to stop whining and take responsibility for their financial condition.

To those who feel victimized by OG here's a primer on capitalism. They have every right to charge anything they want. It's a market place. If you don't want to pay or can't pay, go somewhere else and buy another product that works within your budget.

My word, it sounds like you're addicted to OG's software.

It's reasonable
 

Yes, I thought the price was too high, too... But then I realized that if it saves me an hour of my time, it will already have paid for itself.

$40 is not to much to pay for a tool that helps you become more efficient. Before OF I used to procrastinate a lot at work, and spent a great deal of time trying to figure out what I should do next. Then I purchased OF, read the GTD book, and probably gained at least an hour of productive time per day. Looking at it that way, it pays for itself in a very, very short time. There are other apps out there that can be used, and do offer some improvements in your workflow, including a simple paper list. But none can match the effectiveness of OF.

I would have paid a lot more for this if OG had decided on a higher price. But, I think they got it right in the range it belongs in.

[QUOTE=ssh;81632]Ok, I was one of those anxiously awaiting OmniFocus for the iPad. I have the Mac and iPhone versions. I use them a lot. I was excited to expand my use to my iPad, since I use it for much of my day-to-day work, and having it for maintaining my projects and tasks makes great sense.

But, the price point was high enough that I haven't bought it, yet. I might, but I'm seriously reconsidering my investment in OmniFocus, and I've very disappointed that there wasn't some kind of a 2 or 3 day introductory period when we could purchase it for a more reasonable investment of $15-$20.

Yes, in the grand scheme of life, $40 isn't a huge investment. However, when added to the $20 for OmniFocus iPhone, and $80 for the Mac, it's a little stratospheric. (Not to mention all of my other OmniGroup products!)

I'm pretty disappointed. It seems like you're milking loyalty. And now I'm very torn.[/QUOTE]
Look, if you bought your favorite movie as a VHS tape eons ago, then as a DVD, and now you just bought a Blu-Ray player, does the studio owe you a discount on a Blu-Ray disc of that title? If you bought a succession of cars from the same manufacturer, do they give you a half off deal if you buy in the first few days of the new model year? Omni [b]does[/b] give a big trade-in allowance when you move to the next major version, and none of this business of penalizing people who don't buy every version, either.

Turn the situation around — you're a developer, and you put a whole lot of work and money into building a new version of your app for a new platform. Your customers demand that you give them that new software for little or nothing despite your large investment (an investment, I might add, that could be arbitrarily wiped out by Apple deciding not to approve the final product). Aren't they milking your loyalty to them?

[QUOTE=curt.clifton;81643]To each his own. Personally, I would have gladly plunked down $80 for this app. I've been beta testing it for the past month and use the iPad app more than the Mac version now. It's not an exaggeration to say that OF iPad has more than doubled the value of my iPad to me.

Omni charges what they believe their apps are worth to their users. To me, the money I've spent on Omni products over the years has never been a bad investment. My productivity gains completely swamp the cost of the products.[/QUOTE]

N ffnc, bt f y'v bn bt tstng ths pp fr ver mnth, y hvn't rlly dn vry gd jb (IMH).

Try going to projects view create a dummy action. Then delete the action by swiping the action to the right. The big red delete button covers about 25% of the date in the same table cell. Yeah, it's not breaking the application or anything... It's just sloppy.

If I'm paying 40 bucks for an application in iTunes, I would expect it to be of far superior quality than the bulk of other offerings, which about 95% of them sell in the region of $1 to $4.

[QUOTE=IceWind;81672]N ffnc, bt f y'v bn bt tstng ths pp fr vr mnth, yu hvn't rlly dn vry gd jb (IMH).

Try going to projects view create a dummy action. Then delete the action by swiping the action to the right. The big red delete button covers about 25% of the date in the same table cell. Yeah, it's not breaking the application or anything... It's just sloppy.[/QUOTE]
How do you know Curt didn't report that very issue? You might have noticed that there was a fair amount of pressure to ship the app ASAP. They didn't work the bug list to 0 before submitting to the App Store, and certainly didn't work the cosmetic enhancement list to 0!

f y tll s th nm f yr prdct(s), w'll b gld t chck t th xmpl y'v st, myb w cn lrn hw t s sppsd t b dn!

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;81670]Look, if you bought your favorite movie as a VHS tape eons ago, then as a DVD, and now you just bought a Blu-Ray player, does the studio owe you a discount on a Blu-Ray disc of that title? If you bought a succession of cars from the same manufacturer, do they give you a half off deal if you buy in the first few days of the new model year? Omni [b]does[/b] give a big trade-in allowance when you move to the next major version, and none of this business of penalizing people who don't buy every version, either.

Turn the situation around — you're a developer, and you put a whole lot of work and money into building a new version of your app for a new platform. Your customers demand that you give them that new software for little or nothing despite your large investment (an investment, I might add, that could be arbitrarily wiped out by Apple deciding not to approve the final product). Aren't they milking your loyalty to them?[/QUOTE]Guess what?

I [I]am[/I] a developer (actually in the business and design side these days rather than writing code) and understand the Apple iOS ecosystem better than most. My suspicion is that OmniFocus would likely dramatically increase their revenues by lowering the per-purchase cost of the app. Impulse buying is a big part of the App Store, and $40 is way above the typical willing impulse buy.

I completely agree that they can charge whatever they want. I also think that they may like to know that at least some of their loyal customers find the pricing out of line. I do. As I said in my post, I may very well spring for the app, but the mixed reviews are not leading me to jump on it today. Had OG offered a "fans" discount for the first few days, I'd already have it on my iPad. Reading the forums, I'm not alone.

Since I already use OF on my other devices, I have to decide if the new iPad app is really a leap for me. Does it buy me enough that I don't already have available with the combination of iPhone and Mac apps? That's unclear. Certainly, the beta users really liked it, but they are more "bought in" than those who didn't have that benefit.

As I said, $40 won't break the bank, but it does give me pause. I am sure I'm not alone. As a result, given that the incremental cost to OG of selling another copy of OF is effectively $0, I am arguing that their revenue and gross profit would benefit from a lower price.

Given their pricing on other products, however, I suspect they don't see it that way. I still don't have Graffle on my iPad for that reason. As with everything, YMMV. But don't jump to conclusions about my "financial state" just because I actually work through this process!

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;81675]How do you know Curt didn't report that very issue? You might have noticed that there was a fair amount of pressure to ship the app ASAP. They didn't work the bug list to 0 before submitting to the App Store, and certainly didn't work the cosmetic enhancement list to 0!

f y tll s th nm f yr prdct(s), w'll b gld t chck t th xmpl y'v st, myb w cn lrn hw t s sppsd t b dn![/QUOTE]

Errrm... OmniFocus for iPhone.

Also... See my edit above.

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;81675]f y tll s th nm f yr prduct(s), w'll b gld t chck t th xmpl y'v st, myb w cn lrn hw t s sppsd t b dn![/QUOTE]Really? My little post about the cost that OG chose has already led us to this kind of uncivil interaction? This red herring doesn't help, and only serves to further the rather inappropriate observation of a single minor UI bug.

It isn't in Omni's interest as a provider of first-class support, or ours, as users of that support, to vacuum up every last possible customer by dropping the price ever closer to free.

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;81684]It isn't in Omni's interest as a provider of first-class support, or ours, as users of that support, to vacuum up every last possible customer by dropping the price ever closer to free.[/QUOTE]There is an [I]incredibly[/I] huge difference in the iOS ecosystem between $40 and free. This is a straw man. I'm simply suggesting that some of us think that $40 is high for this app and that it might even benefit OG to reduce the cost. You don't have to agree, but weak arguments aren't helping your case.

I bought it.

I think $40 is worth it due to the quality and depth of the implementation.

That being said, I feel no compulsion to belittle or berate someone with a different opinion.

[QUOTE=IceWind;81672]
Try going to projects view create a dummy action. Then delete the action by swiping the action to the right. The big red delete button covers about 25% of the date in the same table cell. Yeah, it's not breaking the application or anything... It's just sloppy.
[/QUOTE]

Good eye, IceWind. We are aware of this UI issue, and rest assured there are updates planned to fix this kind of thing. We like to hear from our users when they find bugs or have feedback -- to be sure we see your message, send an email to [email]omnifocus-ipad@omnigroup.com[/email]. Thanks!

Joel R
Software Test Pilot
The Omni Group

[QUOTE=ssh;81680]Really? My little post about the cost that OG chose has already led us to this kind of uncivil interaction? This red herring doesn't help, and only serves to further the rather inappropriate observation of a single minor UI bug.[/QUOTE]
Ah, maligning the efforts of a very observant beta tester (Curt) is fine, snarky comments about UI design (delete button overlaps date when about to delete) are fine, but asking the source of said attacks and comments for an example of his higher quality efforts is uncivil. Got it. Thanks for straightening me out! :)

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;81690]Ah, maligning the efforts of a very observant beta tester (Curt) is fine, snarky comments about UI design (delete button overlaps date when about to delete) are fine, but asking the source of said attacks and comments for an example of his higher quality efforts is uncivil. Got it. Thanks for straightening me out! :)[/QUOTE]Nope. Two wrongs don't make a right. His comments were uncivil and so are yours, but you took it up a notch by not simply commenting on his comments, but rather by making assumptions about him and attacking those assumptions. Perhaps he's the author of the most amazing app in the App Store but would rather not share that. Or maybe he knows nothing about UI design. Regardless, your red herring was just that and therefore worthy of additional comment.

It's interesting that I appreciated your comments that I read in other threads and was actually shocked at your responses here. I suspect you now think I'm a bit of an a**, which is true, but I have a strong aversion to logical fallacies in online conversation.

So, I'll go away now. I've expressed my opinion, and OG is likely to ignore it, anyway, but at least they allowed me to express it.

Cheers...

[QUOTE=IceWind;81672]N ffnc, bt f y'v bn bt tstng ths pp fr vr mnth, y hvn't rlly dn vry gd jb (IMH).
[/QUOTE]

Disagreement is fine, but please do so respectfully. More specifically, don't make ad-hominem attacks on our forums. They will be removed.

[QUOTE=curt.clifton;81643] I've been beta testing it for the past month and use the iPad app more than the Mac version now..[/QUOTE]

Hi Curt,
I'm very curious about the way you use OF for iPad, especially when you say that you use it more than the mac version. I set up my workflow in a manner inspired by you and your posts, so it is based on several perspectives in project mode, that I miss in OF Ipad as much as other things, like I described in [URL="http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=16975"]this thread[/URL]. I basically have a perspective to daily review every 1,2,3,5,7 days and so on, and if you still have the same setup, I'm wondering about how you deal with some iPad "limitations".

I'm not sure this is the right thread to discuss about it...

Bye,
Francesco

[QUOTE=ssh;81692]you took it up a notch by not simply commenting on his comments, but rather by making assumptions about him and attacking those assumptions.[/QUOTE]

To be fair, Icewind's post did so as well, just to a different person. That said, I've edited the entire thread up to this point to bring it in line with our [URL="http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?p=77731#post77731"]forum rules[/URL].

I'm hoping I won't have to do too much of this sort of thing today - disagreement is fine on our forums. Please, everyone, just try to keep it respectful and don't go ad-hominem.

NO WAY. $40???

They could have made $20 from me but will now get $0.

That's just silly.

I'm in the middle of a three year, $9000 training courses...keeping myself organized and feeling in control in regards to just that one aspect of my life is worth more then $40 to me.

Thanks OMNI. Would have paid twice that for this awesome app that will help my personal life and business in countless ways!

Whilst i'll admit i have a few niggles with the ui, personally I've got no problem with the price. Omni focus in its various forms must have saved/made me thousands of pounds over the past couple of years. At my hourly rate it's only about 15 minutes of my time.

The problem with the app store is that people have become used to the idea that anything over $0.99 is somehow 'expensive' and that totally devalues the work put into a major software project. A dedicated GTD app is not a throw-away impulse purchase like the thousands of stupid novelty iFart apps on the store. I'd hazard a guess that the vast majority of purchases are made by people who know what they want and realize how useful it is..

Omni is just trying to buck the trend that App Store apps for iPhone and Ipads are cheaper than desktop apps.

I wish them luck.

[QUOTE=msurtees;81721]Omni is just trying to buck the trend that App Store apps for iPhone and Ipads are cheaper than desktop apps.

I wish them luck.[/QUOTE]As of this writing, OmniGroup has two apps in the top 20 grossing iPad apps list. OmniFocus is currently at the number one spot, and OmniGraffle for iPad---about two months after its release, and with a $50 price tag---is hanging in there as well.

It would appear that OmniGroup is doing just fine with their pricing strategy. ;)

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but nobody is entitled to disrespect anyone in this forum in my book.

Look, everyone has a different opinion as to how much the program is worth, and we can definitely voice how things are more expensive than we think it should be, but the company has the right to set the price as they see fit, and if we think they are trying to "rob" the buyers (btw, I think $40 is more than reasonable in this case), then we don't have to buy the product, and eventually the company will lower the cost (or go out of business).

At this instant, I don't think Omni is going to lower the price, and if Omni can manage their support better and lower other overhead costs by selling fewer copies at a "premium" price, then so be it. Apple charges a premium price on many of their products as well. Why do people buy premium cars, go to fancy restaurants, etc? Surely, these companies or establishments can attract more customers if they lower the price, but is that wise?

There are many programs that I bought at App Store for .99, 1.99, or 2.99, but they just sit in my iPhone or iPad and gets used only rarely. If I add them up, they would come out to be greater than $40.00. I know OF for iPad will be used every day, and even if I only use it for a year continuously, it would cost about 11 cents per day. I think I can afford to save 11 cents a day for a year to use the program.

Of course, each of us has to decide whether the program is worth the price if is offered at, and nobody should be telling anyone whether it's too much or too low for them.

Just my 2 cents.

£23 ($40) was too much, but I paid it anyway. I decided that the ugly interface could be lived with. Even the warty hag might get some cosmetic surgery one day.

Don't complain about the business model though. There are just different ways of doing things. Look at 1Password/Agile Software. I have never seen a bad word written about them. They seem to have a perspective of lets make a lot of people happy with a small price. OG seem to be much more "business-headed" and less hippy-ish. Much more, "squeeze them for how much we can get".

To people who I can see showing an interest in Macs I always recommend Agile. I sometimes recommend OG. I have a warm fuzzy feeling with Agile, but I am smart enough to know that OG don't give a toss about what I think about them.

Is it better to sell less at more or more at less. Only the OG accountants know that.

So pay up if you want the app and don't bother if you don't. There are many more important things in life to worry about.

I actually do think $40 is a little high, and would've loved to have seen some sort of discount for Desktop and iPhone owners. But whatever, they can price it however they want.

I love Omnifocus, but I'm waiting to see what the reviews are for this one, since if I'm going to spend $40, the app better be absolutely amazing.

OmniFocus on the iPad for $40 is still a better deal than Things on the Mac for $60. Better software for less money.

[QUOTE=Wasgo;81740]OmniFocus on the iPad for $40 is still a better deal than Things on the Mac for $60. Better software for less money.[/QUOTE]

Actually it's $49.95 for Things for Mac. However, the point is well taken. OF for iPad has more features and functionality than Things for Mac . . .

[QUOTE=Wasgo;81740]OmniFocus on the iPad for $40 is still a better deal than Things on the Mac for $60. Better software for less money.[/QUOTE]

Lets compare same platforms!!! Things for iPad is half the price of OmniFocus iPad. Things for Mac may be $60 but OmniFocus is $80.

I agree with other posters that this could have been price a lot more competitively especially for the iPad.

At work I use my Mac Pro / Macbook and on the road I rather use my iPhone. Anyone with a Wifi iPad like me will most likely be in a location such as home/work with a computer with the desktop version. On the road I have my iPhone to sync. Not sure if paying for a third version on iPad is really worth $40.

[QUOTE=philiporeilly;81747]Lets compare same platforms!!! Things for iPad is half the price of OmniFocus iPad. Things for Mac may be $60 but OmniFocus is $80.

I agree with other posters that this could have been price a lot more competitively especially for the iPad.

At work I use my Mac Pro / Macbook and on the road I rather use my iPhone. Anyone with a Wifi iPad like me will most likely be in a location such as home/work with a computer with the desktop version. On the road I have my iPhone to sync. Not sure if paying for a third version on iPad is really worth $40.[/QUOTE]

I think you missed our points. What we are saying, OF for Ipad is a superior product than Things for Mac at a higher price point.

If you want to get Things for iPad at a half price point, go ahead. You will find you can't really use the program for an extended period time w/o getting frustrated due to missing features or lack of functionality.

[QUOTE=ksrhee;81748]I think you missed our points. What we are saying, OF for Ipad is a superior product than Things for Mac at a higher price point.

If you want to get Things for iPad at a half price point, go ahead. You will find you can't really use the program for an extended period time w/o getting frustrated due to missing features or lack of functionality.[/QUOTE]

Still though $40 on top of what the majority of customers have already paid for the desktop version and iPhone is a bit much.

Price is an issue for this product. Most reviews / posts online so far today seems to be focusing on the price (either saying its too much or trying to talk up the apps value for the price).

I have absolutely no complaints about the price tag on this particular app. For me, the price reflects the quality....and I'm glad that Omni didn't set too low a price. That would signal, to me, the desire to sell as many as possible, thus shifting the focus from quality to "How much money can we make off of this thing?"

When I buy something from Omni, I am not only paying for the actual product, I am also "purchasing" the incredible and ongoing support behind said product. You simply cannot say the same for the majority of apps sold...once they are bought, you are often left "hanging" if you run into any problems....or if you simply have a question regarding proper use. One might need quite a bit of "support", if one is really interested in using OF in every conceivable way, in order to gain max benefits in the practice of "GTD".

With OF on my iPad, I can now "release" any residual guilt I've held, for
spending so much money on a device that is all too easy to use in a "frivolous" manner. No matter how many apps I have bought ( and believe me, it is plenty), none come even close to providing actual functionality when compared to OF.

Thanks OG- lovin' my OF for iPad!

[QUOTE=philiporeilly;81751]Still though $40 on top of what the majority of customers have already paid for the desktop version and iPhone is a bit much.

Price is an issue for this product. Most reviews / posts online so far today seems to be focusing on the price (either saying its too much or trying to talk up the apps value for the price).[/QUOTE]

Price is always a point. My point is that the quality of the software isn't lower, simply because it's on the iPad. If this were Mac software, it would be considered an exceptionally good value. That doesn't change just because of the platform.

Things for iPad isn't as good as OmniFocus for iPad, and as previously mention, neither is Things for Mac. Especially given the complete lack of transparency with almost every promised feature or bug fix. While it certainly is an added costs for people who've already bought the Mac or iPhone version, you don't need the iPad version for the Mac and iPhone versions to work, nor do you need the Mac or iPhone versions for OmniFocus for iPad to work.

My hands aren't clean, I had a cow at the price theyncharged for the iPod version. Over time I saw how it kept me on track. I've made much more than I paid thanks to that app. When this version came out, I didn't think twice and just bought it. This is the best version yet. As I was told buy it yes or buy it no, but don't btch. I paid full price because it is a he value to me. If you want a toy, buy one, but if you need the best, buy OF for the iPad..

I am still not understanding...when we decided to purchase an iPad, we purchased a different "platform". Why so much expectation of the purchase price reflecting OF as a "universal application"? It is what it is. I didn't get a real "break" on pricing when I bought "Pages" for my iPad, although I have the iWorks suite on 2 separate MBP. I didn't expect to, either.

I've purchased ToDo (by Appigo) for the iPhone and iPad. I have the Toodledo app for the iPhone and iPad. I have Things for the iPad, iPhone and Mac. I have Pocket Informant for the iPad and iPhone. I sync the different versions of ToDo and Pocket Informant (and, of course, the Toodledo apps) with Toodledo Pro Plus. When I was on the PC, I bought the Outlook Plugin from David Allen's company, and that [i]really[/i] didn't work for me at all.

(I want to say that some of the above apps have many strong positives going for them, and even some advantages over OmniFocus. On balance, though, for my GTD'ing needs, there's just no match for OmniFocus, and, as of today, the ring is solid.)

I tried switching away from OmniFocus after getting the iPad, because I wasn't terribly fond of using OmniFocus for iPhone on my iPad. For me, the new app is easily worth $40.00 (yes, in addition to the cost of the iPhone and Mac editions, which, for me, were also worth it). The most expensive thing about OmniFocus for iPad for me was how long it took for it to arrive--add up the price of all of the items in the first paragraph, and you'll get what I mean (not to mention the time spent messing with the other apps, and now having to copy much of that back over to OmniFocus again).

As of today, I now have my OmniFoci syncing through the Omni Sync Server beta. I'm [i]very[/i] happy. $40.00, for me anyway, is a no-brainer here.

(I'm not arguing with those who feel otherwise, I'm just stating how it is for [i]me[/i].)

[QUOTE=GTD;81757]

I tried switching away from OmniFocus after getting the iPad, because I wasn't terribly fond of using OmniFocus for iPhone on my iPad. For me, the new app is easily worth $40.00 (yes, in addition to the cost of the iPhone and Mac editions, which, for me, were also worth it). The most expensive thing about OmniFocus for iPad for me was how long it took for it to arrive--add up the price of all of the items in the first paragraph, and you'll get what I mean (not to mention the time spent messing with the other apps, and now having to copy much of that back over to OmniFocus again).

As of today, I now have my OmniFoci syncing through the Omni Sync Server beta. I'm [i]very[/i] happy. $40.00, for me anyway, is a no-brainer here.

(I'm not arguing with those who feel otherwise, I'm just stating how it is for [i]me[/i].)[/QUOTE]


Oh my, YES!! The amount of money I've spent purchasing various "task managers" while waiting for the appearance of OF for iPad.....it has been a "costly" few months, to say the least!

Oh, one more thing: I also purchased OmniGraffle for the iPad (I do not have it for the Mac, but am considering it).

In my opinion, the Omni Group (at least with these two apps, as I haven't used their others) elevate the iPad to desktop-level heights, in terms of productivity apps. They don't feel compromised to me. At the same time, they also make good use (especially OmniGraffle in this regard) of the touch interface, to the point where the touch UI feels like an advantage over the mouse and keyboard.

In short, Omni does a great job of making apps I want to use, but that also make my iPad...well...more [i]serious[/i], more professional, for those things I need it to be that way for.

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;81670]Look, if you bought your favorite movie as a VHS tape eons ago, then as a DVD, and now you just bought a Blu-Ray player, does the studio owe you a discount on a Blu-Ray disc of that title? If you bought a succession of cars from the same manufacturer, do they give you a half off deal if you buy in the first few days of the new model year? Omni [b]does[/b] give a big trade-in allowance when you move to the next major version, and none of this business of penalizing people who don't buy every version, either.[/QUOTE]

Whatever you think of the $40 price point, your examples are pretty bad choices... The movie industry is probably the #1 in terms of milking its customers to the max... 3D anyone?

As for the car analogy, the real parallel would be if people were complaining that they don't get a discount on OmniGraffle or some other OG app...

The real problem here is that you've never had to pay for each install of OmniFOcus on all your computers until now. But the hardware landscape has changed and now you do... Omni could have put together a slightly upgraded version of the iPhone app, make it universal, and call it a day. They decided instead to go all out and make a kickass app specifically for the iPad. It makes sense... And although I'd bet the commercial aspect had at least something to do with it. I think they were mostly excited by the potential of the new device and the opportunities it created in terms of UX and UI.

Still though... You used to be able to buy an app and install it on all your Macs. Now suddenly, you have to buy a new app for each new device you own, even when they share the same OS. They don't force you to buy it. But they don't go out of their way to make you feel they appreciate your business either...

Just sayin'

Frankly, I was expecting the price to be $50 - and would have paid it gladly. So $40 was a bonus!

I am firmly in the camp that OF has MORE than repaid its cost in value to me. I know the iPad version will also.

Thanks OG! Can't wait for OO for iPad also!

There is no question that the software is expensive. However if we want the iPad to be a serious platform and not a 59p (99c) bargain bin of fart apps and casual games then we have to pay for it.

I agree that the combined price is expensive, but we live in a world where it costs money to develop software. It costs money to have developers to develop and just because a couple of years ago they made an iPhone app, doesn't make the iPad app free to develop. It cost more time and took more people to develop. It simply HAD to cost more money.

I welcome Omni into the iPad space. They are making desktop quality apps for the iPad, and the app store would be a lot poorer without them there.

based on the desktop program and the ipod app, $40 is exactly what i expected. no issue with that price. it is worth the cost. thanks omni.

Thanks, but No Thanks. I really think those of us who had already purchased OF for Mac and iPhone should have gotten some type of a price break. Well, no matter, I'll stick with Things as it meets my needs just fine.

[QUOTE=Dillinger-63;81798]Thanks, but No Thanks. I really think those of us who had already purchased OF for Mac and iPhone should have gotten some type of a price break. Well, no matter, I'll stick with Things as it meets my needs just fine.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, our discounting options are limited on the App Store: it doesn't support discounts on the basis of purchase history; we can't even offer discounts to our own employees!

We did take this issue into account when pricing the app, though—we chose a price that's half the price of the desktop app, even though it offers much of the functionality of the Mac app (and some new features such as its Forecast and Review modes) on a brand-new, portable, and very usable platform.

We think it's a great value for software people use everyday and which makes them more productive. We hope you'll think so too, but we also understand that not every customer will have a need to purchase all three editions of the application.

Based on software pricing in the app store this software may seem expensive. I don't think Omni has any reason to apologize for its pricing. Developing and supporting software products is expensive. Not only does Omni deliver quality products the products under go continuous enhancement. The support provided for defect and user issues is of a level not achieved by most software vendors. To date I have not had to pay for any updates and have been a user of OF since December 2007.

[QUOTE=Ken Case;81805]Sorry, our discounting options are limited on the App Store: it doesn't support discounts on the basis of purchase history; we can't even offer discounts to our own employees!

We did take this issue into account when pricing the app, though—we chose a price that's half the price of the desktop app, even though it offers much of the functionality of the Mac app (and some new features such as its Forecast and Review modes) on a brand-new, portable, and very usable platform.

We think it's a great value for software people use everyday and which makes them more productive. We hope you'll think so too, but we also understand that not every customer will have a need to purchase all three editions of the application.[/QUOTE]Ken, thanks... I can appreciate this.

I was hoping for an introductory special, but, again, I understand. I'm still thinking about it. I'd give it a 70% probability that I'll end up purchasing it. But, I still think that you could likely do better in terms of your business profitability with a slightly lower price driving a higher volume. Guess we'll never know, tho! ;)

If you think about the classic GTD premise that it will save you 2 hours a day, how quickly do you think $40 will be absorbed in productivity boosts?

In that regard, as an owner, of the iPhone, iPad & OmniFocus family pack versions, I can say that the $180 combined I've spent is a bargain compared to the productivity boosts it has let me achieve.

FWIW, Check out the incredible amount of communication from Ken and the rest of the Omni team in regards to OmniFocus iPad over the last few weeks.. That, and the app itself, are well worth the money.

I think the thing you have to ask here is whether the $40 price tag seems reasonble when comparing it to the functionality and price of its competitors. The truth is, I switched from Omnifocus Mac+iPhone to Todo on iPhone+iPad+Toodledo. When Omnifocus for iPad came out, I wanted to switch back. I have bought Omnifocus for iPad and I am unhappy with it - it won't make me switch back. I am not reclaiming my money as I have the hope that the Omni guys will fix the problems, but with Todo 4 around the corner (just received an announcement mail yesterday or so), they play a catch-up game that is hard to win - especially at this price point. And Appigo and all the others are certainly no bigger companies than Omnigroup, however, they still manage to make a living off these affordable prices.

Well, it's a bit of a deja vu. When OF came out for the iPhone it made me scratch my head for a while, then eventually I bought it.

This time around it simply won't happen. I think the added benefit of having the iPad in addition to the Mac and iPhone I already have for OF is not in balance with its price. If it had been another $5 ok, but not like that.
Also one needs to see the context that OF is not likely to exist stand-aline on an iPad, you will usually have at least a Mac with another paid copy.
I also find an iPad/iPhone universal app would have been much more elegant.

Anyway, I hope you guys have thought through the part of the market you want to cater to, the risk of alienating users and the opportunities you create for the competition.
I for my part won't buy it and I certainly won't recommend it at this price point

[QUOTE=yann;81771]Whatever you think of the $40 price point, your examples are pretty bad choices... The movie industry is probably the #1 in terms of milking its customers to the max... 3D anyone?

As for the car analogy, the real parallel would be if people were complaining that they don't get a discount on OmniGraffle or some other OG app...

The real problem here is that you've never had to pay for each install of OmniFOcus on all your computers until now. But the hardware landscape has changed and now you do... Omni could have put together a slightly upgraded version of the iPhone app, make it universal, and call it a day. They decided instead to go all out and make a kickass app specifically for the iPad. It makes sense... And although I'd bet the commercial aspect had at least something to do with it. I think they were mostly excited by the potential of the new device and the opportunities it created in terms of UX and UI.

Still though... You used to be able to buy an app and install it on all your Macs. Now suddenly, you have to buy a new app for each new device you own, even when they share the same OS. They don't force you to buy it. But they don't go out of their way to make you feel they appreciate your business either...

Just sayin'[/QUOTE]

Your analogy is flawed as well. You are not buying the application for your Mac, but completely different platforms. I think Apple made it clear when they introduce these devices, that's how they see them-different platforms.

If you bought a BMW car, would you go to BMW and complain that you are not getting a discount on their motorcycle? For that matter, would you complain that they are not bundling their motorbikes with scooter/moped, and now their bicycle? BMW makes all these different vehicles, but you are expected to buy each on separately. In the same token, you had to pay for iPhone, iPad, and Mac separately since they are three different devices. Why do you now complain that software or accessories you have to buy these would not behave in the same way?

I get it that some people are complaining about how expensive the program is. Well, not all programs are going to be selling at the price you want. Do you go to BMW and complain that their car is too expensive compared to a Hyundai? If you think a Hyundai, which is a fine car, meet your needs, then buy it. If you think a BMW meets your need better, then prepare to pay a higher (premium) price.

Let's move on.

[QUOTE=bnz;81856]I think the thing you have to ask here is whether the $40 price tag seems reasonble when comparing it to the functionality and price of its competitors. The truth is, I switched from Omnifocus Mac+iPhone to Todo on iPhone+iPad+Toodledo. When Omnifocus for iPad came out, I wanted to switch back. I have bought Omnifocus for iPad and I am unhappy with it - it won't make me switch back. I am not reclaiming my money as I have the hope that the Omni guys will fix the problems, but with Todo 4 around the corner (just received an announcement mail yesterday or so), they play a catch-up game that is hard to win - especially at this price point. And Appigo and all the others are certainly no bigger companies than Omnigroup, however, they still manage to make a living off these affordable prices.[/QUOTE]

That's great that you found those programs meet your needs. I for one tried those for a few days and scrapped them since they do not come even close (for me) meeting my needs to task management programs. I won't go into details as to where they fall short here since it will take up too much space, but judging from other posts, I'm not the only one.

Again, to each his/her own. If you find other program work for you and the price meets your need, go for it! If you think OF doesn't and it's too expensive, don't buy it. However, please do not accuse Omni for behaving badly or make inferences about their motives.

[QUOTE=pnuding;81868]Well, it's a bit of a deja vu. When OF came out for the iPhone it made me scratch my head for a while, then eventually I bought it.

This time around it simply won't happen. I think the added benefit of having the iPad in addition to the Mac and iPhone I already have for OF is not in balance with its price. If it had been another $5 ok, but not like that.
Also one needs to see the context that OF is not likely to exist stand-aline on an iPad, you will usually have at least a Mac with another paid copy.
I also find an iPad/iPhone universal app would have been much more elegant.

Anyway, I hope you guys have thought through the part of the market you want to cater to, the risk of alienating users and the opportunities you create for the competition.
I for my part won't buy it and I certainly won't recommend it at this price point[/QUOTE]

As far as I'm concerned, OF for iPad can definitely act as a stand-alone application. So, some people will only be paying $40, not $120 (if you own all three). For that matter, another competition's product cannot be used as standalone at this point due to missing features. In that case, you would have to pay $70 for the program since you need both desktop and iPad version. So, which one is cheaper?

I know how hard Omni folks worked to bring this application to iPad; so, if you think they deserve a few dollars for their efforts, then I have to disagree vehemently.

You can still use their iPhone application in their iPad. So, you don't have to purchase a separate iPad application if you don't want to.

Just another perspective on this matter.

I don't care it is $40. I just care about the bugs, crashing and issues with functionality.

BZ

[QUOTE=ksrhee;81875]That's great that you found those programs meet your needs. I for one tried those for a few days and scrapped them since they do not come even close (for me) meeting my needs to task management programs. I won't go into details as to where they fall short here since it will take up too much space, but judging from other posts, I'm not the only one.

Again, to each his/her own. If you find other program work for you and the price meets your need, go for it! If you think OF doesn't and it's too expensive, don't buy it. However, please do not accuse Omni for behaving badly or make inferences about their motives.[/QUOTE]

Come on. These defensive 'don't critize Omni' phrases are driving me mad in this thread. Why wouldn't I? This sounds almost like you are an Omni employee playing an incognito customer. It's really funny. You claim that OmniFocus is superior to other products, yet you are trying hard to find a reason not list the reasons (because they of course would be too long). You claim that the Omnifocus is so much superior and that people using the cheaper apps just don't have enough to do. However, the point of my criticism is exactly that: that you can't focus with Omnifocus in the way to list the todo items efficiently, because everything is too huge, empty project items are listed, etc. etc.. There is just too much information on the screen, too little organization, and everything is just much too big. You can't concentrate on what is relevant. I wouldn't critize the price if the product was what you claim it to be, but it simply isn't.

Edit: I just learnt that there apparently should be an item "Perspective" in the OF sidebar. But I don't have it. This may make my criticism superfluos (except for the sluggish and huge UI), but I still don't know how to get this sidebar item...

[QUOTE=pnuding;81868] If it had been another $5 ok, but not like that.[/QUOTE]

So you're saying you feel OF is worth less than a coffee in Starbucks or a burger from McDonalds? If you're gaining even the slightest benefit to you productivity it's got to be worth a *lot* more than that.

If this app saves me just 15 minutes it's paid for itself.

[QUOTE=bnz;81892]There is just too much information on the screen, too little organization, and everything is just much too big. [/QUOTE]
I'm reminded of the old complaint:

"the food is terrible and the portions are too small" :)

Why do you want things smaller if there is already too much on the screen?

[QUOTE=bnz;81892]

Edit: I just learnt that there apparently should be an item "Perspective" in the OF sidebar. But I don't have it. This may make my criticism superfluos (except for the sluggish and huge UI), but I still don't know how to get this sidebar item...[/QUOTE]

Here's a thought: do you have some perspectives defined on the Mac, and if so, are they all project-based? The iOS OmniFocus apps only support context-based perspectives at the moment. I wonder if perhaps seeing that there are perspectives synced over, but none of the right type, might cause the code to not show the perspectives sidebar entry at all.

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;81896]I'm reminded of the old complaint:

"the food is terrible and the portions are too small" :)

Why do you want things smaller if there is already too much on the screen?[/QUOTE]

I am primarily referring to those "no next actions" projects that are listed even tough they don't add any value. They occupy so much space that you have to scroll to get to the relevant information. Also, the whole nested structure is absolutely unnecessary. I just want to see my tasks and not how they are nested. A plain list with a project breadcrumb would have been perfectly sufficient.

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;81897]Here's a thought: do you have some perspectives defined on the Mac, and if so, are they all project-based? The iOS OmniFocus apps only support context-based perspectives at the moment. I wonder if perhaps seeing that there are perspectives synced over, but none of the right type, might cause the code to not show the perspectives sidebar entry at all.[/QUOTE]

Can't say at the moment. My Mac is at home. You must be able to define perspectives on the device for a $40 app. Requiring the user to buy another $80 Mac version in order to make the app actually usable is ridiculous.

[QUOTE=bnz;81892]Come on. These defensive 'don't critize Omni' phrases are driving me mad in this thread. [/QUOTE]

OK, I'm on your side of the fence, bnz! Omni have all the pieces, they just don't seem to have an overall picture, so they appear unable to do the jigsaw.

At the prices Omni charge (heroically ignoring Mr. Job's advice to "price competitively, go for volume"), they should have products that slay the opposition. I'm sorry, IMHO, they don't even come close. The only reason we stick with OmniFocus is the rock-solid sync. If another software house brings out a competitive product offering that, along with a consistent GUI, is cross-platform, feature rich, and - oh, cream! - has a multi-user capability, we'd be off like a shot.

I've seen major software houses (let's be honest, Omni is a minor player) obliterated overnight by newcomers to the game. You only have to look at the fate of some of their previous offerings, Omni- Web, Dazzle, Dictionary, Sweeper et al, to realise they need to focus and get a grip!

[QUOTE=bnz;81901]Can't say at the moment. My Mac is at home. You must be able to define perspectives on the device for a $40 app. Requiring the user to buy another $80 Mac version in order to make the app actually usable is ridiculous.[/QUOTE]

I'm confident that at some point in the future you will be able to do so. Send in your vote with Contact Omni so that they can accurately judge how important this feature is to the user populace. Expecting every possible feature from an app that costs twice as much, in the 1.0 revision, no less, is a bit unrealistic.

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;81912]I'm confident that at some point in the future you will be able to do so. Send in your vote with Contact Omni so that they can accurately judge how important this feature is to the user populace. Expecting every possible feature from an app that costs twice as much, in the 1.0 revision, no less, is a bit unrealistic.[/QUOTE]

Right. But I expect every feature in the 1.0 that makes the app usable and not crippled by a coupled necessity to another $80 app making it a total of $120 (without the iPhone app). I don't think they state anywhere that the featureset is crippled without Omnifocus for Mac. You could say that this is dishonest. The iTunes text says "Use OmniFocus for iPad on its own, or sync with...". On its own, it is crippled.

It's not crippled. Crippled implies it's artificially limited in order to upsell you. I would wager that the limit was based on development time and on getting a good user experience on a new platform.

[QUOTE=bnz;81918]Right. But I expect every feature in the 1.0 that makes the app usable and not crippled by a coupled necessity to another $80 app making it a total of $120 (without the iPhone app). I don't think they state anywhere that the featureset is crippled without Omnifocus for Mac. You could say that this is dishonest. The iTunes text says "Use OmniFocus for iPad on its own, or sync with...". On its own, it is crippled.[/QUOTE]

I find it hard to reconcile it being crippled by the lack of perspective editing when perspectives are still experimental on the iPhone app! Perspectives are certainly a powerful feature, but the app is very functional without them. However, if you feel you have been misled into purchasing, contact Omni and they'll refund your money if you ask in the first 30 days.

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;81922]I find it hard to reconcile it being crippled by the lack of perspective editing when perspectives are still experimental on the iPhone app![/QUOTE]

Oh c'mon, whpalmer4, according to Omni, Landscape mode is still an experimental feature.... !

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;81922]I find it hard to reconcile it being crippled by the lack of perspective editing when perspectives are still experimental on the iPhone app! Perspectives are certainly a powerful feature, but the app is very functional without them. However, if you feel you have been misled into purchasing, contact Omni and they'll refund your money if you ask in the first 30 days.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I don't think the program is "crippled" in any way. Compare to the competition, I think OF for iPad offers more features than others. For instance, in one program, you can't even create a simple repeating task in their iPad version.

I would suggest folks who are unhappy, apply for a refund. The process isn't that difficult - just send Omni an email.

[QUOTE=bnz;81892]Come on. These defensive 'don't critize Omni' phrases are driving me mad in this thread. Why wouldn't I? This sounds almost like you are an Omni employee playing an incognito customer. It's really funny. You claim that OmniFocus is superior to other products, yet you are trying hard to find a reason not list the reasons (because they of course would be too long). You claim that the Omnifocus is so much superior and that people using the cheaper apps just don't have enough to do. However, the point of my criticism is exactly that: that you can't focus with Omnifocus in the way to list the todo items efficiently, because everything is too huge, empty project items are listed, etc. etc.. There is just too much information on the screen, too little organization, and everything is just much too big. You can't concentrate on what is relevant. I wouldn't critize the price if the product was what you claim it to be, but it simply isn't.

Edit: I just learnt that there apparently should be an item "Perspective" in the OF sidebar. But I don't have it. This may make my criticism superfluos (except for the sluggish and huge UI), but I still don't know how to get this sidebar item...[/QUOTE]

I'll keep the conversation civll. I do not work for Omni at all. I did beta test their iPad application, but that's all my involvement.

I used to do reviews mobile devices and applications on the webs awhile back, but I just don't have the time to do a detail review on these programs to do them justice these days. I was merely sharing my personal opinion on what I thought of these programs. When I find time in the future, I might do a detail review of pros/cons of each program.

Do I think OF for iPad is perfect? No. There are features that need to be in place. Believe me those features were even suggested during the beta phase, but Omni has to make a decision as to when to cut off the feature addition. Otherwise, you would still be waiting to get the program, and judging from what I saw, folks wanted the program in April.

[QUOTE=endoftheQ;81935]Oh c'mon, whpalmer4, according to Omni, Landscape mode is still an experimental feature.... ![/QUOTE]

And rightly so — it is full of bugs!

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;81939]And rightly so — it is full of bugs![/QUOTE]

Oh? So this is the platinum standard, premium priced product that we're all supposed to rave about? OK, let me guess... I have to vote for the landscape bugs to be fixed... [sigh...] :rolleyes:

You at least have to report them to be sure they are aware the bug exists. A bunch of landscape bugs that I've reported in the past seem to have been fixed; I think there's a misconception going around that a bug won't be fixed unless everyone and his brother complains. However, if Brian tells Ken that 3 dozen people have complained about something not working right, I'm pretty sure that Ken takes a look at the issue as soon as he gets a chance. One person complaining 3 dozen times about the same issue may not get quite the same response, however :) I reported about 8 of them (for the iPod/iPhone app) while doing the iPad testing, but inexplicably, none of them seem to have been fixed yet. I wonder why :rolleyes:

Many of the landscape bugs I'm referring to come up when you change the orientation of the phone when the app is launching, or doing something that takes more than an instant to render. Display ends up drawn in landscape, with an overlaid keyboard in portrait, for example. Others are just things that look bad, but still work. I still spend much of my time on the iPod using it in landscape mode, so they aren't crippling by any stretch of the imagination.

Todo on iPhone+iPad+Toodledo vs Omnifocus for iPad
 

[QUOTE=bnz;81856]I think the thing you have to ask here is whether the $40 price tag seems reasonble when comparing it to the functionality and price of its competitors. The truth is, I switched from Omnifocus Mac+iPhone to Todo on iPhone+iPad+Toodledo. When Omnifocus for iPad came out, I wanted to switch back. I have bought Omnifocus for iPad and I am unhappy with it - it won't make me switch back. I am not reclaiming my money as I have the hope that the Omni guys will fix the problems, but with Todo 4 around the corner (just received an announcement mail yesterday or so), they play a catch-up game that is hard to win - especially at this price point. And Appigo and all the others are certainly no bigger companies than Omnigroup, however, they still manage to make a living off these affordable prices.[/QUOTE]

I currently use Todo on iPhone+iPad+Toodledo and am very interested in Omnifocus for iPad, and am VERY curious why you are not switching back to Omnifocus for iPad. Your perspective is of value to me since you are already using the same combination of apps that I am. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks!

Ok. Just wrote the Omni support a lengthy email explaining again my complaints. I basically stated that I don't want a refund if they acknowledge the shortcomings and they intend to fix them. On the other hand, I take the refund if they really believe that the app is better than the alternatives and that it is reasonably priced for what it does :D For me, it's all about the attitude. Everyone makes mistakes. But you got to have the attitude to acknowledge what went wrong. Having said that, I somehow got the perspectives entry appear in my sidebar after fiddling with it in OmniFocus. That "Due view" should have been there from the beginning. It's madness not to have it in there by default - it really IS the most important view you need. I probably would not ever have started to complain (at least not that early) if that entry was there from the beginning.

[QUOTE=bhughes;81958]I currently use Todo on iPhone+iPad+Toodledo and am very interested in Omnifocus for iPad, and am VERY curious why you are not switching back to Omnifocus for iPad. Your perspective is of value to me since you are already using the same combination of apps that I am. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks![/QUOTE]

I listed them already in this thread and the review thread. With the perspectives, OmniFocus for app is usable, but it is not without it - so if you don't have OF for Mac, you probably won't be able to get that sidebar entry. I only got it by fiddling with the OF for Mac and syncing with it. Does it bring me any considerable advange over Todo that justifies almost 10 times the amount of money? No, not really. But I lose the web interface of Toodledo. I don't know. The people who claim that OF is so much better than Todo and/or Toodledo probably have never worked with it. I find this combination highly efficient. On the other hand, having a good Mac client is nice to have as well. You don't have that with Todo and Toodledo. But then, something simple like sorting after priority first, and then after due dates doesn't seem to be possible with OF. Honestly, I am completely torn. If there is some signal from Omni that they plan to make it right in the next few months, I may switch back to OmniFocus I guess.

I'm one of those that have bought all the competing options too. Ugh.

Things just isn't an option. Not only are try missing key functionality, but the syncing via wifi only is just a non starter for me. Plus if you have iPhone and iPad apps and make a change on one, you have to manually sync to the Mac then sync again to the other idevice. Really?

I really like ToDo for the iPhone and used it for a while. But hated having to use Toodledo I a web browser on my Mac. I really prefer a Mac client. Plus, while it works, syncing via toodledo is clunky. If appigo had a Mac client, I'd have been tempted to stick with that platform for less money.

So all things considered, the seamless cloud syncing across three devices with a solid Mac client makes OmniFocus the winner. Even if I think the prices are a little high and the GUI not as elegant.

[QUOTE=Fireproof;81978]I really like ToDo for the iPhone and used it for a while. But hated having to use Toodledo I a web browser on my Mac. I really prefer a Mac client. Plus, while it works, syncing via toodledo is clunky. If appigo had a Mac client, I'd have been tempted to stick with that platform for less money.
[/QUOTE]

I've never had problems with the Toodledo syncing. And while I do not use the web interface a lot, I think it is really good that you _can_ have access to your todo lists anywhere where there is a web browser. This is even more important to me than a Mac client, because I have an iPad Keyboard dock at home and in the office. So I don't even need to use a computer for my Todos, I just use the iPad.

[QUOTE=bnz;81984]I've never had problems with the Toodledo syncing. And while I do not use the web interface a lot, I think it is really good that you _can_ have access to your todo lists anywhere where there is a web browser. This is even more important to me than a Mac client, because I have an iPad Keyboard dock at home and in the office. So I don't even need to use a computer for my Todos, I just use the iPad.[/QUOTE]

I meant clunky in that you can only sync some things for free but others (subtasks) require subscription. I tend to be allergic to subscriptions. :p

I hear you about the benefit of the web. But I am fine with my iPhone for anywhere access and don't really care for Toodledo's look and feel of the web client.

[QUOTE=bnz;81969]That "Due view" should have been there from the beginning.[/QUOTE]

Just double checking, you did try the Forecast view, right?

[QUOTE=curt.clifton;81995]Just double checking, you did try the Forecast view, right?[/QUOTE]

The forecast is of limited use. It helps you to see what is due on a specific day, but it doesn't provide an overview over the next few days (or the next week) at once. You would have to click on each day to see whats on it. Furthermore, while I assign due dates to each task, some of them need to be worked on with a different priority. I need to have those high priority tasks with a possibly later due date always in my sight. I think GTD dictates that a task must not be longer than a specific amount of time, but this simply isn't practical or possible for all kinds of tasks. To a limited degree, this can be modeled with the perspectives and the flagging. But still, it feels like the App doesn't want to give me the views that I need.

[QUOTE=bnz;81998]I think GTD dictates that a task must not be longer than a specific amount of time[/QUOTE]

Hmm... I don't remember seeing that. DA says that anything <2mins should be done right away, but there's no specification on maximum time on a task. It's actually an interesting debate for some specific types of work, e.g. (in my case) when I was completing my dissertation: requires many not-so-discrete tasks that are not always quantifiable in time. Time-blocking seems to work well for some stuff as well (assuming it's not a task that has to be completed in a humongous amount of time and without interruption).

Btw, apologies to all for trolling the OF iPad forum while not being a user yet... I'm living vicariously until my school stops sitting on my loan disbursement (they have to generate interest on it since they can't directly screw us now that the gov't owns the loan...).

[QUOTE=bnz;81998]The forecast is of limited use. It helps you to see what is due on a specific day, but it doesn't provide an overview over the next few days (or the next week) at once. You would have to click on each day to see whats on it. [/QUOTE]
What if you could select multiple days in the forecast?

[QUOTE=hypotyposis;82005]Hmm... I don't remember seeing that. DA says that anything <2mins should be done right away, but there's no specification on maximum time on a task. It's actually an interesting debate for some specific types of work, e.g. (in my case) when I was completing my dissertation: requires many not-so-discrete tasks that are not always quantifiable in time. Time-blocking seems to work well for some stuff as well (assuming it's not a task that has to be completed in a humongous amount of time and without interruption).[/QUOTE]
Yeah, there's no upper limit other than practicality. Dividing things into smaller chunks will help you get started on an enormous task, hence the whole next action business. DA does suggest that things in the inbox that can be done in 2 minutes or less should simply be done on the spot, not deferred.

[QUOTE=hypotyposis;82005]Hmm... I don't remember seeing that. DA says that anything <2mins should be done right away, but there's no specification on maximum time on a task. It's actually an interesting debate for some specific types of work, e.g. (in my case) when I was completing my dissertation: requires many not-so-discrete tasks that are not always quantifiable in time. Time-blocking seems to work well for some stuff as well (assuming it's not a task that has to be completed in a humongous amount of time and without interruption).[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I could create a repeating task so that I could work on it every day, but then the due date is on daily basis, there would be no "final" due date or "repeat until". Also, the repetition is kind of faulty. The next repetition is only created when the last one is checked. If I now use the forecast view, it doesn't display the repeated task on all days where I would have to work on it, but just the first one. It kind of hides the work that you have to do.

[QUOTE=bnz;82011]Yeah, I could create a repeating task so that I could work on it every day, but then the due date is on daily basis, there would be no "final" due date or "repeat until". Also, the repetition is kind of faulty. The next repetition is only created when the last one is checked. If I now use the forecast view, it doesn't display the repeated task on all days where I would have to work on it, but just the first one. It kind of hides the work that you have to do.[/QUOTE]

So I don't know what kind of task you're working with/your workflow type and therefore whether this would apply or not, but I've had quite a bit of success using time-blocking for some stuff (i.e. setting aside chunks of time to do specific work [I]in my calendar[/I], not on OF at all).

[QUOTE=bnz;82011]Yeah, I could create a repeating task so that I could work on it every day, but then the due date is on daily basis, there would be no "final" due date or "repeat until". Also, the repetition is kind of faulty. The next repetition is only created when the last one is checked. If I now use the forecast view, it doesn't display the repeated task on all days where I would have to work on it, but just the first one. It kind of hides the work that you have to do.[/QUOTE]
That's only one way to do it. If it is important to see the future work, instead of making a daily repeater, you make a set of 5 or 7 that each repeat weekly, or 10 or 14 that repeat bi-weekly, or whatever.

As for knowing when to stop, put in an action with a start date that tells you it's time to get rid of that repeating action...

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;82015]That's only one way to do it. If it is important to see the future work, instead of making a daily repeater, you make a set of 5 or 7 that each repeat weekly, or 10 or 14 that repeat bi-weekly, or whatever.

As for knowing when to stop, put in an action with a start date that tells you it's time to get rid of that repeating action...[/QUOTE]

Lol, oh my. This isn't at all a workaround for something that the app should do in the first place ;-)

I find time blocking too inflexible. Maybe I want to work on my big task for 2 hours, then work on some other tasks for a while, because the other thing is driving me mad. So I guess the best thing I can do for now is flag my important tasks and create a perspective that groups flags and sorts due dates. However, I like the priority based sorting in Todo better.

[QUOTE=bnz;82022]However, I like the priority based sorting in Todo better.[/QUOTE]

Back to the debate on GTD and priorities? :D

[QUOTE=bnz;82022]Lol, oh my. This isn't at all a workaround for something that the app should do in the first place ;-)[/QUOTE]
I'm all about getting things done with the tools at hand. If you have the luxury of waiting around until the perfect bespoke toolset comes your way before getting to work, that's great. I get the impression that most people who come here looking for help aren't in that boat.

Refunds for iPhone are Frustrating
 

I don't necessarily have a problem with the price tag - I've used the OmniOutliner-based precursor to OmniFocus, and was one of the first purchasers of OmniFocus for the Mac as well as the iPhone. It's a tool, and I get more than enough value for what I'm paying for the different versions of the application.

My frustration with the price stems largely from Omni's decision to - first - refund iPhone app buyers $25 and then - second - to change that to just a refund of the original purchase price. But at the same time, they're doing nothing for people who have already invested in both versions of the application (and, in many cases, have purchased a variety of other Omni applications, family versions, upgrades, etc.).

It all comes across as taking care of customers who've recently joined the fold, while ignoring those who've been loyal users for, in many cases, years. I appreciate that discounting in the App Store is problematic, but you've managed to figure out a process for the iPhone refunds, so it can't be quite that difficult.

I've purchased the iPad app, and I expect to get full value. But I can't help but feel that Omni is sending a strange message in terms of which customers it plans to reward.

[QUOTE=hypotyposis;82026]Back to the debate on GTD and priorities? :D[/QUOTE]

Well, errrr. In the case of Todo, I just use them to not lose track of what is important. Otherwise, in both Todo and Omnifocus, the important things would easily move somewhere way down in the list.

[QUOTE=bnz;82032]Well, errrr. In the case of Todo, I just use them to not lose track of what is important. Otherwise, in both Todo and Omnifocus, the important things would easily move somewhere way down in the list.[/QUOTE]

Just in case you haven't seen what Curt once referred to as "the mother of all threads"... [url]http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=3836[/url]

[QUOTE=bnz;81969]

The people who claim that OF is so much better than Todo and/or Toodledo probably have never worked with it. I find this combination highly efficient. On the other hand, having a good Mac client is nice to have as well. You don't have that with Todo and Toodledo. But then, something simple like sorting after priority first, and then after due dates doesn't seem to be possible with OF. Honestly[/QUOTE]

Well, I think this is rather presumptuous on your part. I have all these applications and more in my iPad and before OF for iPad, I tried them all. In fact, I have iPhone applications for these programs as well, and tried them all.

I'm glad that you find these programs serve your need and please continue to use them.

I for one do not; so, let's stop it here.

I'm puzzled though why you are so worked up "against" OF for iPad when you find these other program satisfactory and suit your needs . . .

[QUOTE=hypotyposis;82035]Just in case you haven't seen what Curt once referred to as "the mother of all threads"... [url]http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=3836[/url][/QUOTE]

Oh god... I hope that thread dies some day.

BZ

[quote=bwanazulia;82037]oh god... I hope that thread dies some day.

Bz[/quote]
:d :d :d :d :d

EDIT: apparently the "mother of all threads" doesn't appreciate irony on its behalf... So my smilies remain "disemvoweled"...

[QUOTE=drgardner;82028]I don't necessarily have a problem with the price tag - I've used the OmniOutliner-based precursor to OmniFocus, and was one of the first purchasers of OmniFocus for the Mac as well as the iPhone. It's a tool, and I get more than enough value for what I'm paying for the different versions of the application.

My frustration with the price stems largely from Omni's decision to - first - refund iPhone app buyers $25 and then - second - to change that to just a refund of the original purchase price. But at the same time, they're doing nothing for people who have already invested in both versions of the application (and, in many cases, have purchased a variety of other Omni applications, family versions, upgrades, etc.).[/QUOTE]


I totally understand why you might feel this way, but I think Brian addressed this really well in series of comments on our blog last night:

[QUOTE=Brian]

I’m really sorry that the reimbursements left you feeling like we didn’t care about you; we didn’t intend to make folks feel that way. Whenever possible, we want customers to feel good about us and the products they purchase from us. We know we’ll never reach 100% customer satisfaction, but we’re going to try to get as close to that mark as we possibly can.

I’m hoping it’ll help to clarify the reasoning behind the purchase reimbursements we’re doing. They aren’t meant as a sales gimmick or a “new customer discount”. In fact, it’s not a discount at all; we’re reimbursing the purchases a specific group of customers made. Customers with iPads but no iPhone. (Will some folks with both devices take advantage of this program? Probably. Don’t like it, wish they wouldn’t, but hey, them’s the breaks.)

Why? So they can buy the product they really wanted - OmniFocus for iPad - without paying the extra cost of the iPhone product they were using temporarily.

Ideally, all of our applications would have been available on iPad launch day, but our team is not big enough to do that. When we decided that OmniFocus for iPad wouldn’t be available at iPad launch day, part of the reason we did that was because the option of using the iPhone app on the device was there.

Now that the iPad application is ready, iPad-only customers can use either product. Customers with both devices can either buy both products, or use the iPhone application on both. And if someone wants to use the iPhone app on their iPad to save some money, they should have that option. That’s great.

What we didn’t want was to collect *extra* money from someone that was willing to wait for us to finish the iPad application and use the iPhone one in the meantime. We want those folks to spend the same amount as everyone else that chooses to buy OmniFocus for iPad.
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Brian]

I think another thing that caused confusion was that we were originally planning to reimburse with iTunes gift cards, which only come in $15 and $25 varieties. Since there was no perfect option, we chose the latter, but it’s clear that made some folks feel even more left out.

Between that issue and the problems with getting international purchasers gift cards in the right currency, we switched to a plan where folks can have their purchase reimbursed via a mailed check maid, a Paypal transfer, or credit on our store.

It wasn’t communicated well, and I take personal responsibility for that. It was and is well-intentioned, though, so I’m doubly sorry it left a bad taste in your mouth.
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Brian]

time-limited sales make one group of people - the ones that get the discount - happy. Unfortunately, there’s another group - the people that don’t - who end up unhappy that they missed out. The longer your application is around, the larger that second group gets: folks hear that there was a sale and someone else paid less than they did.

Worse, people don’t end up in either group on the basis of loyalty - folks who hear about the sale and buy get it. Folks on trips, without ‘net access, who were busy, or who just plain forgot are left out and feel bad.

We have some of the best customers anywhere and we really appreciate them - but we would prefer to earn our customers’ loyalty with great applications, fair treatment, and top-notch support. We feel those are far more valuable in the long run.
[/QUOTE]

Disappointed
 

I've been in the industry for fifteen years, so I do understand what it takes to develop, test and release a quality application. And I don't fault Omni for making the decision to price OF for iPad at a point which they felt was appropriate, given the development investment.

Unfortunately, as a customer who purchased the OSX version and iPhone versions immediately at release, the $40 purchase of this version is at a point I feel to be too high on top of all the other purchases. I personally wouldn't expect it to be $5, that's not realistic for an app of this quality. But I do feel $20-25 is more in line with the application.

I wish Omni the best, but I'm at a point where I feel like I'm not willing to keep investing money if there is never going to be incentivized pricing for pre-existing customers.

I think this thread has been an interesting discussion, because it raises a lot of issues about perceived value, and it has the benefit of a clearly informed group of people getting involved. The level of discussion on this forum is far more evolved than most other forums I'm involved in!

The only issue raised that has riled me so far - not on these forums so much, but elsewhere - is one or two people commenting that "if you can't afford" OF for iPad then you don't need it. Affordability is a straw-man, as many would technically be able to "afford" paying a four or five figure sum for something if they had to pay out such an amount, but we don't base our purchasing decisions solely on affordability, we base them on our perceived value of the product.

As a developer myself, I'm a fan of the "per-user" rather than "per-machine" model. If I buy or sell a piece of software aimed at the desktop market, I like the user to be able to install it on all their systems without having to pay per machine. But that's becoming an old world model... OmniFocus for Mac is an entirely different piece of software than OmniFocus for iPhone, which is again different to OmniFocus for iPad. Each iteration has had their own entirely separate development costs, so we can't expect them to be priced on a per-user basis. To be fair, some software companies are eating up the costs and releasing universal versions of their software which don't require the end-user to splash out more cash... but would you happy if OF for iPad was merely a port of the iPhone app? I doubt it, and so there are development costs involved in creating a new application.

The biggest issue is that OG's prices are, not twice or three times as much as their competitors on the app store, but often ten times as high. That's always going to raise debate, and quite right too... But that's an issue for the entire industry, and the fact that I (and most of you guys too probably!) have paid the price means that we believe it a price worth paying. I tried Pocket Informant for £3.99 and concluded it was a waste of space. I've now spent £23.99 on OF, and for anyone using it in a professional capacity, that will pay itself back in no time, but price still has to be justified. I can absolutely understand people raising price as an issue, especially those not already familiar with the desktop and iPhone version of the product who won't want to risk such an investment just to give it a try. Despite that, I still think OF is the best value on the market.

I think the one thing OG could have done to mitigate any frustration is introducing an introductory price that would let those of us who have already bought in (financially and metaphorically) to the desktop and iPhone product get a little discount. That would have made me feel all warm and cuddly toward OG. But, they have no obligation to do so, and I bought the product regardless, and it's a great product. But the price point was always going to cause debate... and so it should, because OG are leading the pack in testing whether iPad owners are prepared to stump up proper money for proper apps.