Please combine OmniPlan & OmniFocus into a comprehensive time management app
 

Omni Group: Please combine or at least integrate OmniPlan & OmniFocus into a comprehensive time management app.

OmniTime, OmniWork, OmniResults, whatever you might call it, could be a category killer in both the project management and GTD spaces because it would integrate group and individual, long-term project and short-term task, as well as top-down and bottom-up approaches into a single time management app.

Is there any chance of this happening?

Thanks,
Jeff

Integration between OmniFocus and OmniPlan is one of the big features we're working on for OmniFocus 2 and OmniPlan 2. It's not done yet (OmniPlan 2 is further along than OmniFocus 2 is), but here's the plan:

A project manager working in OmniPlan 2 will be able to assign tasks to individual team members, and those tasks will automatically show up in each member's OmniFocus 2 database. As people work on their tasks they should be able to update their completion status and estimates of time remaining, and OmniFocus 2 will automatically post progress updates back to OmniPlan 2, where the project manager can review and accept the updates and post an updated plan.

Woohoo!
 

[QUOTE=Ken Case;67338]Integration between OmniFocus and OmniPlan is one of the big features we're working on for OmniFocus 2 and OmniPlan 2. It's not done yet (OmniPlan 2 is further along than OmniFocus 2 is), but here's the plan:

A project manager working in OmniPlan 2 will be able to assign tasks to individual team members, and those tasks will automatically show up in each member's OmniFocus 2 database. As people work on their tasks they should be able to update their completion status and estimates of time remaining, and OmniFocus 2 will automatically post progress updates back to OmniPlan 2, where the project manager can review and accept the updates and post an updated plan.[/QUOTE]

Awesome!!! Thank you. I love OmniFocus, and if you guys were not going to integrate or merge them I was going to purchase Merlin, which is a great project manager (but without GTD). But this kind of integration will make OmniPlan a no-brainer for OmniFocus users. You guys will own the time management space from top to bottom.

What's a realistic guestimate of when OmniPlan 2 and OmniFocus 2 might be available? I understand you can't say anything definite, but just a general general ballpark time frame so we can plan accordingly?

And thanks for the quick reply also.

We expect to release both OmniPlan 2 and OmniFocus 2 sometime in 2010.

Ok, thanks Ken! And keep up the great work, Omni's apps are awesome.

[QUOTE=Ken Case;67338]Integration between OmniFocus and OmniPlan is one of the big features we're working on for OmniFocus 2 and OmniPlan 2.[/QUOTE]

This is fantastic!

Hello,
I've been trying out and learning different GTD software trials for the last month and OmniFocus & OmniPlan are great to use – they work wonderfully, they're pleasureable to look at and watch in use.

Now that I see there's plans for integration it's a major relief and I feel like I can call off the search. The lack of integration had me still searching, but I still hadn't found anything I felt quite as satisfied with as OmniFocus. I tried Things and I really liked it, but it just wasn't robust enough.

I'll be picking up a few Omni products in the near future. Thanks for the quality efforts!

Todd

Is there another post/page where you list the feature roadmap of Omnifocus? I would love to see this, with the a GIANT caveat that anything can change. Just like to get a feel for what's coming, especially after investion $100 (Omnifocus + Omnifocus for iPhone).

Just adding a vote to integration or communication between the two apps. For people who are serious about managing both actions and time, this is critical.

omnifocus with 'lite' omniplan features
 

Maybe a great compromise would be a full fledged Omnifocus with slimmed-down Omniplan features. Perhaps Omnifocus + Gannt 'lite' without too much resource tracking... more about personal milestone visualization and task grouping. Yeah? Need more features? Use Omniplan with Omnifocus integration.

Hmmm..... Maybe this will actually provide that built-in calendar feature that some OF users have been longing for.

I know that the OmniFolks tend to steer us towards using iCal or an outside calendar for our "hard" dates (usually tasks that have to be done by a certain date such as Christmas shopping before Dec 25th or taxes by Apr 15th.)

But I also like to take a page from Zen-To-Done/Covey where I do my weekly review and flag three "Big Rocks" to do for the week. Then I schedule those Big Rocks into my weekly calendar.

[QUOTE=wilsonng;70695]
I know that the OmniFolks tend to steer us towards using iCal or an outside calendar for our "hard" dates (usually tasks that have to be done by a certain date such as Christmas shopping before Dec 25th or taxes by Apr 15th.)[/QUOTE]

A minor quibble: the tasks that have to be done [b]by[/b] a certain date (pay bills, do holiday shopping) are well-suited for OmniFocus. Tasks that need to be done [b]on[/b] a certain date (meet with lawyer, give lecture) are the ones typically referred to as the "hard landscape" and are thought by many to be more appropriately tracked on a calendar. I tend to use a hybrid approach as many of those tasks that happen at a fixed time ("meet with accountant to do year-end tax planning") probably are going to have a substantial preparation component ("collect latest brokerage statements and pay stub").

Timeframe for 2.0 integration?
 

Hello everyone,

Anyone have any ideas about when OmniFocus 2.0 & OmniPlan 2.0 might become available? Any word on beta testing 2.0 versions of either?

Thanks,
Jeff

"Sometime in 2010" is all that Omni has been willing to say so far. There's at least one more revision of OmniFocus 1.x on both iPhone and Mac due out, and I really doubt they would want to ship 2.0 before that happens. I'd be surprised to see anything with a 2.0 label available to us before March at the earliest.

On other point: This doesn't seem to be an official, Omni-sponsered poll. At least Ken Case had no knowledge of it at the last Bay Area OmniFocus User Group meeting back in November.

I'm not sure who set up this poll, but even if it wasn't the Omni Group, I'm sure these same questions have
crossed their minds at some point.

-Dennis

Clarification: plan, focus merge for single users
 

[QUOTE=seanhoytphoto;70694]Maybe a great compromise would be a full fledged Omnifocus with slimmed-down Omniplan features. Perhaps Omnifocus + Gannt 'lite' without too much resource tracking... more about personal milestone visualization and task grouping. Yeah? Need more features? Use Omniplan with Omnifocus integration.[/QUOTE]

I want to clarify that I'd find it very useful to actually have a subset of Plan's features within Focus for us single-workstation users. There's gotta be a pretty straightforward way to utilize the project's date (anchor date), its tasks' due dates and start dates (based off the anchor date or fixed) and the current date to display a gannt chart above or below the project entry. I want to glance at the project, see what's been completed, where I'm at and what's coming up.

[QUOTE=seanhoytphoto;74237]I want to clarify that I'd find it very useful to actually have a subset of Plan's features within Focus for us single-workstation users. There's gotta be a pretty straightforward way to utilize the project's date (anchor date), its tasks' due dates and start dates (based off the anchor date or fixed) and the current date to display a gannt chart above or below the project entry. I want to glance at the project, see what's been completed, where I'm at and what's coming up.[/QUOTE]

Yes, something like this for long-term project/daily task integration in one app.

[QUOTE=Ken Case;67347][on 2009-09-24, 09:53 AM] We expect to release both OmniPlan 2 and OmniFocus 2 sometime in 2010.[/QUOTE]

Seems the iPad and iPhone have distracted from the mission. This worries me both because it seems it will be harder to release a well integrated anything if there are all these versions that have to integrate as well, and also because it seems like promise ware is being "released" to keep the fans from fleeing to the competition, making it harder for them to compete.

OP 1.7 just released to much fanfare?

[QUOTE=dancingbrook;90360]Seems the iPad and iPhone have distracted from the mission. This worries me both because it seems it will be harder to release a well integrated anything if there are all these versions that have to integrate as well, and also because it seems like promise ware is being "released" to keep the fans from fleeing to the competition, making it harder for them to compete.

OP 1.7 just released to much fanfare?[/QUOTE]

I was wondering about this too. Well, 2010's not quite finished yet and MacWorld is right around the corner in January. I'm sure they're working on it and learning much from the iPhone and iPad versions which bodes well for future versions of the desktop apps since OS X seems to be evolving closer towards iOS, so I don't see it as much as a distraction as an effort to cover all the bases in a qualitative way and keeping up with Apple's advancement of the platform into mobile and the cloud...if they didn't have iPhone and iPad versions of OF people would be screaming about that...

But I too am looking forward to closer integration between these two time/productivity apps on mobile and the desktop...A lot of stuff to sync but I'm sure Omni Group can handle it.

I appreciate that, like Apple, Omni Group is concerned about bringing quality apps to market in contrast to rushing stuff to market and fixing it later; I'd rather wait for an app I can trust with my data than getting a mediocre Microsoft-caliber app soon.

[QUOTE=nailen;90382]

Well, 2010's not quite finished yet and MacWorld is right around the corner in January.

...since OS X seems to be evolving closer towards iOS,...

...if they didn't have iPhone and iPad versions of OF people would be screaming about that...

...A lot of stuff to sync but I'm sure Omni Group can handle it....

...I'd rather wait for an app I can trust with my data than getting a mediocre Microsoft-caliber app soon.[/QUOTE]

You want to bet it's not out in 2010, as was expressed in September 2009? If they just released 1.7 of OP, I certainly don't hold out much hope of seeing OP 2.0 at Macworld.

Where did you read that OS X was evolving toward iOS? Maybe in appearances, but I doubt that is going to shave any substantial time off of development.

Screaming? Maybe, but that doesn't justify failing to follow through on other expectations. We all knew of iPhones and assumed iPads were coming in Sept. 2009.

I wish I could feel so confident they could handle the sync; I anticipated this need before either OF, OP, OO or OG were released. Omni was in a position to do this (integrate) from the start. Perhaps it was the rush to get it out the door that resulted in the lack of integration? And now they have to spend more time sorting it all out?

I'd rather a company not say they expect to release something they don't deliver and then have customers waiting in anticipation rather than look elsewhere for delivered goods. How many folks said, OK, I'll wait a year plus rather than switch? That's not fair to the customer or the competition.

Sorry if I'm being a bit of a curmudgeon, but I really don't like to see (or be one of the) users being strung along by expectations not met; seeing everyone suffer, users and other developers (a la NOW/Nighthawk and Chronos). I also think w/ Omni prices being on the high end, they need to be held to a higher standard.

[QUOTE=Ken Case;67338]Integration between OmniFocus and OmniPlan is one of the big features we're working on for OmniFocus 2 and OmniPlan 2. It's not done yet (OmniPlan 2 is further along than OmniFocus 2 is), but here's the plan:

A project manager working in OmniPlan 2 will be able to assign tasks to individual team members, and those tasks will automatically show up in each member's OmniFocus 2 database. As people work on their tasks they should be able to update their completion status and estimates of time remaining, and OmniFocus 2 will automatically post progress updates back to OmniPlan 2, where the project manager can review and accept the updates and post an updated plan.[/QUOTE]

Will you be providing other means of Delegation and Collaboration for teams using OmniFocus who don't require apps like OmniPlan to be a part of their workflow?

[QUOTE=Ken Case;67338]Integration between OmniFocus and OmniPlan is one of the big features we're working on for OmniFocus 2 and OmniPlan 2. It's not done yet (OmniPlan 2 is further along than OmniFocus 2 is), but here's the plan:

A project manager working in OmniPlan 2 will be able to assign tasks to individual team members, and those tasks will automatically show up in each member's OmniFocus 2 database. As people work on their tasks they should be able to update their completion status and estimates of time remaining, and OmniFocus 2 will automatically post progress updates back to OmniPlan 2, where the project manager can review and accept the updates and post an updated plan.[/QUOTE]
Whats the new roadmap? when omnifocus 2 will be available?

[QUOTE=dancingbrook;90384]
I wish I could feel so confident they could handle the sync; I anticipated this need before either OF, OP, OO or OG were released. Omni was in a position to do this (integrate) from the start. Perhaps it was the rush to get it out the door that resulted in the lack of integration? And now they have to spend more time sorting it all out?
[/QUOTE]

I'm sure the Omni folks can handle any syncing issues better than most, but it seems to me that if they folded the OmniPlan features into OmniFocus for a combined project & task manager it would lessen syncing issues among 6 versions (3 hardware versions of the two apps) by only having 3 versions to sync, albeit at a higher price point for such a combined time/task manager that would create a new project management/GTD super category blowing away all traditional project management and simple GTD apps.

Bringing GTD methodology to project management would be an innovative development in the project management space, an ideal project management solution especially for software and web developers where GTD is popular and project management (without GTD) considered old-fashioned.

Please Develop OmniFocus to OmniPlan
 

I'm actually surprised this isn't obvious enough in the fact that both are project management programs, developed at the same company. For me, OmniFocus is for doing quick entry and min-dump management of projects, tasks, and due date information. So for me, OmniFocus for the Big Picture.

OmniPlan is where I'd then like to assign resources, tack costs, see everything in a Gantt Chart and get into the nitty-gritty of a big project.

I think just focusing on how both use due date, and categories; it should be just determining the key values that people would need to display from each program that matters in the other.

The key values I care about are taking from OmniFocus are the Projects, the project due dates, their tasks, their due dates, the duration information, completed date, and whether it completed, and then from there I could sync that information from either program into either project file. Also looking at ignoring (not removing or not importing, just ignoring) items like Context and a few other items that don't need to be shown in OmniFocus, and vice-versa.

I've found you can manually work on this using Export to CVS and importing between the two programs.

If I could then export back a file that contained the

This would work if your entire team/department/company buys into the GTD methodology.

GTD may work for some but not for others. IT would almost make you look like a religious zealot trying to preach the GTD Bible to the masses. Some folks just aren't ready for it and some just don't care.

I'd love to spread the Word of GTD but if my team/department/company doesn't adopt the GTD methodology, then it would be pretty pointless.

By converting OmniPlan into a multi-user version of OmniFocus, it may limit the consumer market to folks who need a project management tool that also requires GTD.

OmniPlan looks like it will benefit by staying agnostic about its task management preference. Maybe it can adopt some of the other methodologies such as Your Workday Now discipline, the GTD discipline, or the DIT (Do It Tomorrow) discipline, or even that new-fangled AutoFocus/SuperFocus discipline.

I've seen Pocket Informant allow me to switch between GTD or the Franklin-Covey GTD methodology.

[QUOTE=nailen;93613]I'm sure the Omni folks can handle any syncing issues better than most, but it seems to me that if they folded the OmniPlan features into OmniFocus for a combined project & task manager it would lessen syncing issues among 6 versions (3 hardware versions of the two apps) by only having 3 versions to sync, albeit at a higher price point for such a combined time/task manager that would create a new project management/GTD super category blowing away all traditional project management and simple GTD apps.

Bringing GTD methodology to project management would be an innovative development in the project management space, an ideal project management solution especially for software and web developers where GTD is popular and project management (without GTD) considered old-fashioned.[/QUOTE]

The Omni Group applications need to talk to each other; I need OmniFocus to talk to OmniPlan and vice versa. That'd be perfect.

Though if OmniFocus allowed for 'team mates' then that would be *perfect*. I can't stress just how perfect that would be. You would need to be able to share task lists directly with them though so that you could see their progress.

[QUOTE=wilsonng;95351]This would work if your entire team/department/company buys into the GTD methodology.

GTD may work for some but not for others. IT would almost make you look like a religious zealot trying to preach the GTD Bible to the masses. Some folks just aren't ready for it and some just don't care.

I'd love to spread the Word of GTD but if my team/department/company doesn't adopt the GTD methodology, then it would be pretty pointless.

By converting OmniPlan into a multi-user version of OmniFocus, it may limit the consumer market to folks who need a project management tool that also requires GTD.

OmniPlan looks like it will benefit by staying agnostic about its task management preference. Maybe it can adopt some of the other methodologies such as Your Workday Now discipline, the GTD discipline, or the DIT (Do It Tomorrow) discipline, or even that new-fangled AutoFocus/SuperFocus discipline.

I've seen Pocket Informant allow me to switch between GTD or the Franklin-Covey GTD methodology.[/QUOTE]


Good points all. The ability to switch among methodologies would be awesome. My main point is not about a particular methodology but about not separating project management from task management since projects are composed of tasks and tasks usually exist within the context of projects.

It would be nice to have all project management and task management tools together in the same app; it doesn't make sense to separate interpenetrating levels of complexity [I]within[/I] a time/activity management system into separate apps simply because they represent different levels of complexity within a coherent system.

This is a systems holism perspective.

Hi Ken,

Woohoo! Just downloaded the OmniPlan 2.0 beta and it looks great!

I'm not seeing how it integrates with OmniFocus...where/how is that done?

Maybe I'm missing something...

Cheers,
Jeff

[QUOTE=nailen;95777]...

It would be nice to have all project management and task management tools together in the same app; it doesn't make sense to separate interpenetrating levels of complexity [I]within[/I] a time/activity management system into separate apps simply because they represent different levels of complexity within a coherent system.

This is a systems holism perspective.[/QUOTE]

Yes and no. It's intriguing to have everything in one place - that's more or less the MS approach ("the one size fits all"). But I think Omni has does a terrific job at keeping the user experience consistent. So I think whereas I would love to get everything together in one app, task management is a much more detailed job for a different approach than project management. For me, OF is perfect for "getting things done". OP on the other hand comes in handy when trying to think ahead, balancing workloads and assigning resources. Having some sort of interaction (rescheduling for example) would be quite enough for me.
Besides that: getting my friends and colleagues to do some sort of task management is enough work. Project management is a completely different story...

[QUOTE=wilsonng;95351]This would work if your entire team/department/company buys into the GTD methodology.

GTD may work for some but not for others. IT would almost make you look like a religious zealot trying to preach the GTD Bible to the masses. Some folks just aren't ready for it and some just don't care.[/QUOTE]

Just to follow up on this: OmniPlan 2.0's collaboration features will work great with OmniFocus, once the Focus side is updated, but we absolutely want to allow different people to be able to use different tools. (And if you have an Apple Calendar Server you can see that in OmniPlan's beta now, as we'll interop with Mail and iCal to-do items.)

Omni recently joined the CalConnect standards body, where things like the iCalendar and CalDAV standards are set, and we're very involved in trying to further interoperability standards for tasks / to-do lists / project management / etc. Ideally, you'd be able to assign tasks from a project planning app or delegate them from a task management app, and the person assigned would receive that task, no matter what their preferred software was.

That's a long-term goal rather than a present reality, obviously. But that's where we're heading.

[QUOTE=tbo;96507]Yes and no. It's intriguing to have everything in one place - that's more or less the MS approach ("the one size fits all"). But I think Omni has does a terrific job at keeping the user experience consistent. So I think whereas I would love to get everything together in one app, task management is a much more detailed job for a different approach than project management. For me, OF is perfect for "getting things done". OP on the other hand comes in handy when trying to think ahead, balancing workloads and assigning resources. Having some sort of interaction (rescheduling for example) would be quite enough for me.
Besides that: getting my friends and colleagues to do some sort of task management is enough work. Project management is a completely different story...[/QUOTE]

It sounds like project management programs like OmniPlan is suited more for a higher Horizon of Focus. My life doesn't exactly require GANTT charts and what-not so I may be talking out of my @$$.......

But I do agree that OF is better for the runway and project Horizons of Focus.

[QUOTE=nailen;96446]Just downloaded the OmniPlan 2.0 beta and it looks great!

I'm not seeing how it integrates with OmniFocus...where/how is that done?

Maybe I'm missing something...[/QUOTE]

ah - thanks for the heads up - just downloaded the beta 2 and the OmniFocus integration isn't obvious either. it really would be great to mark a project in OmniFocus for "management" in OmniPlan - perhaps the actions that show up in OmniFocus are milestones you create, their due dates, and their status (esp if they are blocked) - I could definitely see a mapping to my @Waiting state at the very least.

well - any insight for us eager OmniFocus peeps would be great. I personally have no issues putting a few projects on hold short-term until I have a better handle on resource management! Thus, why I am looking at software like OmniPlan seriously.

UPDATE (from [URL="http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=20862"]thread[/URL]): [QUOTE=skwirl]It’s not featured in the OmniPlan beta because in order for this feature to work we need to update OmniFocus on the Mac, iPhone, and iPad first.[/QUOTE]

The general idea is that you build an overall project plan in OmniPlan, and set up publishing of actions for various resources to OmniFocus. The actions show up in OmniFocus for those resources, and when they are completed and synced, that information propagates back to OmniPlan to update the plan document. A variation on the same scheme allows for delegating tasks from one OmniFocus database to another. I don't think it makes sense to try to have the master copy of the plan in OmniFocus if you need OmniPlan's tools to plan and execute it successfully, though.

Unfortunately, before we see any of this stuff, they've got to ship OmniPlan 2.0 (which has the OmniPlan-OmniFocus collaboration support turned off right now, though it does have the OmniPlan-OmniPlan support turned on) and also implement and ship the OmniFocus end of the collaboration support for 3 different platforms, each of which runs on a somewhat independent release schedule. They'll need a lengthy testing cycle, as it wasn't really possible to do much testing before they pulled out the OmniFocus component. Some of the OmniPlan resources will be busy building OmniPlan for the iPad, too. I'd say if Santa Claus delivers this stuff in 2011, it might be a surprise :-) If you look back in this thread you see Ken predicting OmniPlan 2 and OmniFocus 2 in 2010, and as it turned out, they barely got the OmniPlan 2 private beta started by Dec. 2010 and still no sign of OmniFocus 2 (though who knows what might have happened had the iPad not come along a few months after he made that statement). One might hope that the current lack of OmniFocus sneaky peek builds means they are now working on OmniFocus 2 rather than yet another OmniFocus 1.x release, but that isn't the only possible interpretation...

My dream: OmniFocus + iBiz
 

I've been an OmniFan for a decade, adopting one Omni app after the next. I've looked at OmniPlan from time to time, but it's way more than I need for a single-person consulting business.

I've used iBiz (née iWork) for nearly as long for time-tracking and invoicing.

My dream since I began using OmniFocus 1.0 sneaky peek has been to integrate time tracking with my OmniFocus tasks.

Omni designers: please consider a time-tracking and invoicing app (OmniTime? OmniTrack?) that integrates with OmniFocus and/or OmniPlan.

-- Ward

I know we have a feature request open on time tracking in OmniFocus, and I wouldn't be surprised if there was a request filed against OmniPlan, as well. If you email the [EMAIL="omnifocus@omnigroup.com"]support ninjas[/EMAIL], they can attach you to either/both.

[QUOTE=tbo;96507]Yes and no. It's intriguing to have everything in one place - that's more or less the MS approach ("the one size fits all").[/QUOTE]

Horizontal integration and vertical integration are commonly conflated. The MS approach is horizontal integration: an app with a million features that tries to do everything but does nothing very well.

The Apple approach is vertical integration: the 'seamless integration' between hardware, OS, and software apps which is vertical integration within a coherent system.

What I'm suggesting is vertical integration from task management to project management all the way up to being able to manage multiple projects; or if you wish from top to bottom: multiple projects, single projects, tasks all the way up and down the nested hierarchy. These are nested levels of complexity within a multi-level system. The ability to go up or down the hierarchy, or technically the nested holarchy, is vertical integration within the same time management system. This is vertical integration.

Separating levels of complexity within a hierarchical system into separate apps is the antithesis of vertical integration and makes life difficult for users. That's the MS way: a chip made by one company, hardware made by another, an OS made by yet another, etc.

In this case, OmniPlan for managing projects and a separate app, OmniFocus, for managing project tasks at a lower level of complexity (within the same vertical/hierarchical time management system). Just as it's better to have a computer whose levels of complexity are made by the same company, it seems to me it's better to have a time management system whose levels of complexity are managed in the same app.

Vertical hierarchical integration is what Omni group is so good at; they have mastered this first with OmniOutliner, then OmniFocus and OmniPlan. I suspect this is because of their expertise in object-oriented programming with encapsulation and inheritance because OO programming lends itself to such hierarchical nesting (objects).

This isn't about adding word processing or web publishing or other horizontal integrations which is the MS way, but about vertical integration ala the Apple way within the same domain, time management, so that a user can go up and down a nested time management hierarchy which is what Omni is so good at anyway. They can do it better than anyone else.