multi context or tags
 

Hello,

I read that in the past you were planning to add multi tags and/or multi context. I'd like to be able to put more than one context in a single issue. In alternative I'd like to use tags.

This would be very helpful

ditto!

Yes, I find I have tasks like "buy mouthwash" which should have both a "Grocery Store" context and a "Drug Store" context. As it stands now I have to look at both contexts when I'm at the grocery store or drug store so I don't miss a task.

[QUOTE=wfiveash;110499]Yes, I find I have tasks like "buy mouthwash" which should have both a "Grocery Store" context and a "Drug Store" context. As it stands now I have to look at both contexts when I'm at the grocery store or drug store so I don't miss a task.[/QUOTE]

If you can get that at either store, you may want to just have "store" as a parent context to grocery and drug store and put it there.

Think hierarchy ;-)

[QUOTE=CatOne;110506]If you can get that at either store, you may want to just have "store" as a parent context to grocery and drug store and put it there.

Think hierarchy ;-)[/QUOTE]

Does this entail my having to look at two contexts every time I go to either the drug store or grocery store? I thought the point to OF and GTD was efficiency, meaning that when I'm at the grocery store I should only be looking at the grocery store context, yes?

[QUOTE=wfiveash;110499]Yes, I find I have tasks like "buy mouthwash" which should have both a "Grocery Store" context and a "Drug Store" context. .....[/QUOTE]

Why not consider just an Errands context?

Otherwise specific to shopping, some iPhone grocery apps are able to cross-catalogue items in a way that would solve your problem.

[QUOTE=DrJJWMac;110542]Why not consider just an Errands context?

Otherwise specific to shopping, some iPhone grocery apps are able to cross-catalogue items in a way that would solve your problem.[/QUOTE]

What I'm looking for is support of very specific contexts so when I go to the drug store, the drug store context has every task that I can do in the drug store and nothing else. I don't want have to look through more than one context in order to find tasks that I can take care of at the drug store. I thought that was the GTD way.

[QUOTE=wfiveash;110543]What I'm looking for is support of very specific contexts so when I go to the drug store, the drug store context has every task that I can do in the drug store and nothing else. I don't want have to look through more than one context in order to find tasks that I can take care of at the drug store.[/QUOTE]

Again IMHO, what you may be wanting specific to shopping at (drug) stores is a grocery shopping app.

Otherwise, with regard to a desire for multiple contexts, perhaps you may be setting your focus too narrow on your contexts at the start, rather than realizing that you have a decision filter at the end too. Consider for example whether you set contexts such as "living room", "bathroom", "bed room" ... when you really are better with just "house". Why then set such a specific context as "drug store" verus "grocery store" when you might be better as "store" (or "errands"). You are then looking at ONE CONTEXT (as you desire). Granted, while standing in the drug store looking at "shopping", you will see tasks that may be unrelated to the more specific drug store location where you are. But, by comparision, is this longer list really so hard to filter through mentally, to see for example that "fish sticks" are not in the drug store?

BTW, are you aware of using location settings on tasks on the iPhone or iPad?

[QUOTE=wfiveash;110543]... I thought that was the GTD way.[/quote]

As I have come to see it, The GTD Way is either a religion or a tool. The former can lead to endless travels done never-ending paths as to why this or that should instead be this or that. The latter can be a realization that sometimes, we should go looking for a hammer when we have a nail rather than trying to pound in the nail with our handy screwdriver.

--
JJW

Or, if OF supported more than one context for a task I would have what I'm looking for which is why I posted. All other suggestions appear to me to be a compromise.

[QUOTE=wfiveash;110563]Or, if OF supported more than one context for a task I would have what I'm looking for ... [/quote]

Certainly.

[QUOTE=wfiveash;110563]... All other suggestions appear to me to be a compromise.[/QUOTE]

Undoubtably you are not alone. Having more than one context on a task would be just clutter for me.

Being able to set multiple TAGS on tasks as a way to filter them for generating activity reports is a whole different kettle of fish.

--
JJW

The easiest way to implement multiple contexts would be with the use of tags. if you want Ominfocus to implement this, please contact them and let them know.

This would make it so much more useful IMO

+1. I just posted [URL="http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?p=110625#post110625"]here[/URL] on this, although I'm afraid that I don't share your faith GeoffAirey that there's any point in contacting Omni. :(

[QUOTE=GeoffAirey;110626]The easiest way to implement multiple contexts would be with the use of tags. if you want Ominfocus to implement this, please contact them and let them know.

This would make it so much more useful IMO[/QUOTE]

Personally, I don't care how Omni implements support for > 1 context per task support as long as it allows me to use OF efficiently and effectively. If that's via tags, fine.

[QUOTE=endoftheQ;110628]+1. I just posted [URL="http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?p=110625#post110625"]here[/URL] on this, [/QUOTE]

Also WRT tags, perhas see the last few posts here ... [url]http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=24207&page=3[/url]

and the much earlier reference here ... [url]http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=12748&highlight=metatags[/url]

[QUOTE=endoftheQ;110628]... although I'm afraid that I don't share your faith GeoffAirey that there's any point in contacting Omni. :( [/QUOTE]

AFAIK, OG always encourages that you contact them via direct feedback/email to add your request to their list.

--
JJW

[QUOTE=DrJJWMac;110632]AFAIK, OG always encourages that you contact them via direct feedback/email to add your request to their list.
[/QUOTE]

You're right Doc, they do, but I once started a thread pointing out it's a futile exercise. Mods or features reach the top of the list, we get the "we're going to do it", etc. comments from the OmniFolk and years-and-years-and-years go by and nothing happens. Nada. IMHO it's a waste of time. Sad.

[QUOTE=endoftheQ;110643]... I once started a thread pointing out it's a futile exercise. Mods or features reach the top of the list, we get the "we're going to do it", etc. comments from the OmniFolk and years-and-years-and-years go by and nothing happens. Nada. IMHO it's a waste of time. Sad.[/QUOTE]

This is not really equivalent to my experiences so far, but then YMMV.

[QUOTE=endoftheQ;110643]You're right Doc, they do, but I once started a thread pointing out it's a futile exercise. Mods or features reach the top of the list, we get the "we're going to do it", etc. comments from the OmniFolk and years-and-years-and-years go by and nothing happens. Nada. IMHO it's a waste of time. Sad.[/QUOTE]

So how do you explain the recent flexible weekly repeats feature? Do you think that would have happened if everyone took your approach instead?

As a very conservative estimate, I've sent in over 1,000 pieces of feedback (there are over 2,500 messages sent to @omnigroup.com, not including the send-to-omnifocus address, and most of the reports do not spawn extended conversations). Many of them are bug reports, but plenty are feature requests. The ones asking for incremental improvements get done enough that I conclude that either the feedback system works, or I only have great ideas that someone at Omni has also had and got approval to implement. I think the former is more likely, but it doesn't matter. I can't see how telling them what I want could possibly be less effective than [B]not[/B] telling them what I want.

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;110652]So how do you explain the recent flexible weekly repeats feature?[/QUOTE]

OK, so how do [B]you[/B] explain:

[B]Tags:[/B] [QUOTE=Brian;61065]We still plan to do it... [/QUOTE] (2009-06-11)

[B]Document Interchange:[/B] [QUOTE=Ken Case;80922]Document Interchange is definitely something I would like to do...[/QUOTE] (2010-07-27)

[B]Text Expander[/B] [QUOTE=Brian;90108]I can't make specific product or scheduling promises, but I can tell you that it is one of the more frequent feature requests against both the iPhone and iPad apps...[/QUOTE] (2010-12-08)

Look at the dates, whpalmer4, these are from years-and-years ago. Where are they?

How about some basic import/export functions? Add a contact to an action? The ability to search in the notes field? Email out from iPhone? Move sans desktop? etc. etc.[I] ad nauseum [/I]

None of these things affect the principles of OF. I suppose it's entirely possible that the majority of users are stuck out in the sticks with only the cat for company. However, for some of us, integration, communication and delegation are a serious part of getting things done. OG can't even be bothered to integrate StOF into their own apps!

I'm not a hater, just disappointed that what I'd hoped would be [I]the[/I] nexus of productivity seems permanently stuck in an isolated quagmire of half-finished, poorly implemented, mish-mash of 'features'.

[QUOTE=endoftheQ;110670]OK, so how do [B]you[/B] explain:
...
Look at the dates, whpalmer4, these are from years-and-years ago. Where are they? [/quote]

Notice also that none of these examples mention a specific date or time. Driving a high performance BMW on a test-course race track is certainly something I "... would like to do ..." since ... about when I was 18 years old. Gosh, so shoot me if that does not happen in the next three weeks or three months!

Consider also that OG has multiple products, not just OF. Compare this with how long CC took just to implement sync in Things. Note that it was their top request for ... ages ... and Things is their ONLY product.

Finally, my thought (and supported understanding) is, adding such features is easier to do when starting from a rebuild -- OF 2. Consider other examples of the long development times needed while delaying the implementation of otherwise highly requested features such as with the current ground-up rebuilds for Curio 8 (Zengobi) and Igor Pro 7 (Wavemetrics) ... both are now over a year still in the making, with projected releases for later this year or beyond. Me personally ... I prefer this path (with the same level of responsive customer support in both cases) than the (imaginary) counter example ... Firefox 15, 16, and 17 in a sequential three day period just to provide bug fixes.

In a nutshell ... the examples you provided and the counter evidence above suggest that you belay the otherwise harsh critic given previously. It is clearly unfair to suggest, in essence, because you do not get what you want when you want it, making feature requests to OG is a futile effort.

[QUOTE=DrJJWMac;110676]It is clearly unfair to suggest, in essence, because you do not get what you want when you want it, making feature requests to OG is a futile effort.[/QUOTE]

I honestly disagree. If years-and-years go by, and you still find your attachments stuck in an iPhone because OmniFolk can't be bothered to implement basic iOS features, it is futile.

I've often wondered what PC users do?!

Well, if anyone wants to volunteer to learn Objective-C, Cocoa, Javascript, and whatever programming language is needed to contribute to OmniFocus, then I'm sure you'll be able to make some contributions to developing software products and adding in your feature requests. Turn in your resumes and hopefully you'll get on board with the Omni engineers.

Yes, I know that many of us use OmniFocus as a cornerstone for our productive lives. But if you've never been on a programming development team, it's not easy.

It might be easier to do one trick pony programs that have a single focus. But to do a task manager program is a monstrous undertaking. Ask Potion Factory (The Hit List) or Cultured Code (Things) and you'll see how difficult it is. Their forums have been swamped with feature requests as much as you'll see in the OmniFocus forums.

If you want to contribute, e-mail the Omni Ninjas with your feature requests and it'll get bumped up the schedule and hopefully see an earlier release. That's what happened with the customizable repeat frequency feature request. It's still a work in progress but at least we're getting something.

However, something like tags certainly sounds like a massive undertaking that will probably require a redesign of the underlying engine and introduces a new world of metaphors and workflows that must be considered.

I've been patient and am willing to hold out for OmniFocus 2. Yes, it can try one's patience but I'm willing to stick it out.

I couldn't wait for Things or Hit List and have found OmniFocus to be a much better tool for me. But we can all scale down if we find Things or Hit List as a suitable alternative.

[QUOTE=wilsonng;110680]However, something like tags certainly sounds like a massive undertaking that will probably require a redesign of the underlying engine and introduces a new world of metaphors and workflows that must be considered.[/QUOTE]

If OG would fix OF's lamentable inability to search in iOS notes fields, we'd have adequate freeform tagging, right now.

[QUOTE=endoftheQ;110681]If OG would fix OF's lamentable inability to search in iOS notes fields, we'd have adequate freeform tagging, right now.[/QUOTE]

In a few days thereafter, this would be noted by everyone interested in "real" options for tagging as being a kludge.

Win one, loose two.

[QUOTE=endoftheQ;110678]I honestly disagree. If years-and-years go by, and you still find your attachments stuck in an iPhone because OmniFolk can't be bothered to implement basic iOS features, it is futile. [/quote]

Your personal handwringing laments are duly noted. Again, they do not offer an excuse to justify to the general user of OF that making feature requests to OG is a futile exercise.

[QUOTE=endoftheQ;110678]I've often wondered what PC users do?![/QUOTE]

They take their machines apart, put new widgets in them, reassemble them, download the latest patch updates, and hope that fixes the problem :-)

[QUOTE=DrJJWMac;110685]In a few days thereafter, this would be noted by everyone interested in "real" options for tagging as being a kludge.

Win one, loose two.[/QUOTE]

"Real" options? Sorry, but that's just more OCGTD. I'm happy for anyone wanting fields, predictive tagging and a tag management system. Good luck! However, millions of items get freeform tagged hourly, think Twitter. I'd be grateful for a few more such kludges from OG.

[QUOTE=DrJJWMac;110686]Again, they do not offer an excuse to justify to the general user of OF that making feature requests to OG is a futile exercise.[/QUOTE]

[I]"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." [/I]
Albert Einstein.


[QUOTE=DrJJWMac;110686]They take their machines apart, put new widgets in them, reassemble them, download the latest patch updates, and hope that fixes the problem :-) [/QUOTE]

Just like OG, huh?!

[QUOTE=endoftheQ;110689][I]"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." [/I]
Albert Einstein.




Just like OG, huh?![/QUOTE]

I'm guessing you've never done any programming? Developing task management software on top of all the other product offerings (OmniGraffle, OmniGraphSketcher, OmniOutliner, OmniPlan, etc is never an easy endeavor. Then there are the respective iOS counterparts in iPad and iPhone) that is also on their plate.

The Omni Folks have been busy. They have been logging in the user feature requests. So I wouldn't accuse them of doing nothing.

Yeah, it's frustrating waiting for it but it'll be worth the wait.

I held my breath and waited a long time for Pixelmator 2 to come out. That felt like forever for me but I'm glad it's finally out.

NovaMind 5 was another program that was in incubation stage for a long time and was released not too long ago. I remember visiting the NovaMind user forums and see threads with the same frustration "when it's coming out? It can't be that hard, is it?"

I remembered going through the Now Software Now X fiasco and finally watching it disintegrate into oblivion.

So I really appreciate the amount of effort and time the OmniFolks have put in to polish up their various software offerings. OmniFocus is in the queue. I think they still have a few more 1.x updates coming while still working on v2.0.

Tagging when wisely implemented may or may not work wonders. Just putting in freeform tagging isn't going to solve everything. I would rather have them get it right by sitting down and thinking about how they would add tagging instead of just throwing something against the wall and hoping it sticks.

Tagging will have repercussions in future versions and must be considered carefully.

OG has consistently stated that they do record the feature requests into their database and pushes the most popular ones up ahead of schedule.

So, if you have lost faith in OG then it might be time to consider other offerings. Good luck.

I have done some programming, although in the spirit of full disclosure, the last language I learnt was probably Cobal, maybe Pascal!

I'm afraid that I've never bought into OG's [I]"we're busy with other apps" [/I]excuse, I wouldn't accept a builder telling me I had to wait years for him to complete the roof because he had a lot of other work on, so why is such a lame answer any more acceptable from Omni? The OmniFolk leap about like gerbils on ritalin, so now we're back to the desktop, after they managed to find time for beta-Siri, probably because they want to generate some revenue. I don't think they appreciate that many of us aren't going to buy (in my case, 30-40 licences) a tarted up UI until they go back and fix the underlying mess that is the current OF suite.

Just to be absolutely clear, here are a few examples of what I'm talking about. I can drag a contact to an action on the desktop where it works as expected. However, year-after-year on my iPhone, where said contact would do me the most good, I get [I]John Smith <addressbook://B0DB8EF4-CB3C-4453-89AD-5AFX17BE4399:ABPerson>[/I]. Useless. I can email an action and copy-and-paste from my iPad but not from my iPhone. It's pointless adding attachments into the desktop app because without Document Interchange they become hopelessly stuck on iDevices. How about some basic import and export functions? I find even obscure niche apps manage to incorporate OPML. OF? I have to start messing about in OO. etc. etc. ad nauseum.

These are not really 'new feature' requests, they're much more like fixes, and I imagine that as most of them take advantage of core OS functions, they wouldn't require that much effort, unless OF's code is truly filthy. I honestly have no idea how those without desktop OF manage to utilise OF on iOS, I only have to realise that I need to move something before I close OF on my iPad and wait until I'm back at my Mac.

Yes, I'm in favour of field tagging and I think it would be especially helpful to new users. However, one (of two) reasons why our entire team abandoned OF professionally was simply OG's total lack of interest in getting the search function to work in notes fields on iDevices. If this was in place then freeform tagging is already there. You only find out how much of a hinderance OF is (rather than any help) when you suddenly have to review and modify hundreds of actions due to a change of circumstance (in our case a flood in one of the studios we use) and you can't even use the notes field to freeform tag across the suite.

I've long since accepted that on this board any criticism of OG is tantamount to heresy. However, I bought my tickets to the party a long, long time ago, pre-internet, when I had to have their products couriered in boxes from the USA and have continued to buy, in the forlorn hope that OG would at least try and get to grips with this cobbled together half-thought-out half-implemented mish-mash. I'm afraid that I don't look at OG through rose-tinted glasses, if what they're (not) doing is failing me, I'll say so, equally I accept others are fully entitled to applaud that the Emperor is getting some new clothes!

[QUOTE=endoftheQ;110708]... However, I ... have continued to buy, in the forlorn hope that OG would at least try and get to grips with this cobbled together half-thought-out half-implemented mish-mash. ...![/QUOTE]

Sounds to me as though your needs have well outgrown the application. The requests you have are important in that regard. Not all of them are just as important from what OG sees across their entire customer base. Implementing any one request at this point is a balance between further mish-mashing (your words) the existing product to fill a nitch market versus incorporating the feature in to a newer design for a larger audience. To use your analogy ... Should OG cobble together a collection of hand-sized, portable solar panels on a house roof that is soon going to be abandoned (next to the fifty satellite dishes that have been patch-worked in place over the past five years) or should they put a top-notch solar panel array on the roof of the new building currently in development? Does your answer change any when you are told that doing a cobbled-together implementation on the existing house will delay completion of the new house by another six months, and the cobbled-together solar panels only power hand calculators while the solar array powers anything in the entire house?

So ... to continue another of your analogies ... this emperor (OG) has clothes (OF), just not ones that you find particularly attractive or useful anymore. Others here have the same strong desires as you to dress up the emperor a bit nicer. In the meantime, the tailors are busy with the new suit, and it is not at all futile (it is indeed highly appropriate!) to make ongoing requests for its features.

Alternatively, looking for other apps to fulfill your expanded needs may now be the right choice to make, even in the face of what may be coming for OF down the road. All well and good ... just stop blaming someone else (OG in particular) about your growing realizations in this regard please. Based on the ignorances that you correspondingly (and apparently inadvertently) also proclaim in your rants, that is somewhat ... heresy and insanity.

OK, Doc, if you see requests for consistency as further mish-mashing and basic functions such as contacts, search, copy-and-paste, import-export, etc. as niche areas, what can I say, except "enjoy the Kool-Aid"! :)

I'm a big fan of the open and free exchange of ideas on these forums. However, I need to say that several of the latest posts, from several posters, are dangerously close to the redline on my "don't let visitors ad-hominem each other" meter.

I find a perverse humor in the fact that folk that want to flame [I]us[/I] are on much more solid ground than folks that want to flame [I]each other[/I] on our forums. Omni does business on the internet, which means possessing the ability to take negative feedback on board. We can take it; visitors shouldn't have to.

It's my opinion that you can't really debate someone out of an opinion that they hold. If folks want to try to do that, they're welcome to give it a shot. Treating each other with respect as you try is non-negotiable, though.

[QUOTE=endoftheQ;110670]OK, so how do [B]you[/B] explain:

[B]Tags:[/B] (2009-06-11)

[B]Document Interchange:[/B] (2010-07-27)

[B]Text Expander[/B] (2010-12-08)

Look at the dates, whpalmer4, these are from years-and-years ago. Where are they?
[/quote]
I think Doug Hofstadter hit the nail on the head:

Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.

Note also that all of the quotes you provided were expressions of interest in doing it, not promises to ship by any particular date. Indeed, I'm not sure that anything has changed to make them any less enthusiastic about those projects. I would certainly still be interested in doing them, were I an engineer there.
[quote]
How about some basic import/export functions? Add a contact to an action? The ability to search in the notes field? Email out from iPhone? Move sans desktop? etc. etc.[I] ad nauseum [/I]
[/quote]
There are two import routes available without resort to scripting, and at least three export routes. While it hasn't always been convenient to get arbitrary data in or out, I've yet to throw up my hands and say "I can't do it." If your beef is that you can't do this on the iOS software, well, okay. To me, exporting data for report generation seems like a power-user operation likely better done on the desktop. Multi-line import would be nice, and it seems to me more likely to be useful in an "away from the desk" scenario.

I don't know why the search doesn't handle notes, although perhaps there's a performance issue there. Most people I know with an iPad use it instead of the iPhone. No comfort if you don't have an iPad or don't have it with you, of course, but at least the functionality is there on one platform, unlike some of your wish list items. I don't know what "move sans desktop" is supposed to mean. I don't recall bumping into any scenarios where I couldn't move something where it needed to go.

[quote]OG can't even be bothered to integrate StOF into their own apps![/quote]True enough, but admit it — at that point, you'd be complaining that you couldn't invoke StOF on multiple items :-)

[QUOTE=Brian;110734]I'm a big fan of the open and free exchange of ideas on these forums. However, I need to say that several of the latest posts, from several posters, are dangerously close to the redline on my "don't let visitors ad-hominem each other" meter.

I find a perverse humor in the fact that folk that want to flame [I]us[/I] are on much more solid ground than folks that want to flame [I]each other[/I] on our forums. Omni does business on the internet, which means possessing the ability to take negative feedback on board. We can take it; visitors shouldn't have to.

It's my opinion that you can't really debate someone out of an opinion that they hold. If folks want to try to do that, they're welcome to give it a shot. Treating each other with respect as you try is non-negotiable, though.[/QUOTE]

Sincere apologies, Brian, my fault entirely. This, however, doesn't get you out of field testing intl. nearby contexts the next time you're in Brighton!

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;110745]I think Doug Hofstadter hit the nail on the head:

Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.

Note also that all of the quotes you provided were expressions of interest in doing it, not promises to ship by any particular date. Indeed, I'm not sure that anything has changed to make them any less enthusiastic about those projects. I would certainly still be interested in doing them, were I an engineer there.

There are two import routes available without resort to scripting, and at least three export routes. While it hasn't always been convenient to get arbitrary data in or out, I've yet to throw up my hands and say "I can't do it." If your beef is that you can't do this on the iOS software, well, okay. To me, exporting data for report generation seems like a power-user operation likely better done on the desktop. Multi-line import would be nice, and it seems to me more likely to be useful in an "away from the desk" scenario.

I don't know why the search doesn't handle notes, although perhaps there's a performance issue there. Most people I know with an iPad use it instead of the iPhone. No comfort if you don't have an iPad or don't have it with you, of course, but at least the functionality is there on one platform, unlike some of your wish list items. I don't know what "move sans desktop" is supposed to mean. I don't recall bumping into any scenarios where I couldn't move something where it needed to go.

True enough, but admit it — at that point, you'd be complaining that you couldn't invoke StOF on multiple items :-)[/QUOTE]

The OmniFolk were eager enough to find resources to leap on the beta-Siri minority bandwagon but 'fixing' contacts which has been discussed since the release of OF for iPhone and was I believe at one time (correct me if I'm wrong!) the most requested item on the Ninjas' lists has never happened, despite waiting year-after-year-after... it's something that would have benefited all iDevice and desktop users and one example (amongst many) why I have such a downer on 'voting'!

I accept that there may be good reasons that OG aren't capable of better integrating the suite or coding in basic OS functions, I wish they'd just say so, then I wouldn't bang on about how shoddy it is that you can email out or cut-and-paste from an iPad but not from an iPhone or that contacts on the desktop translate into gobbledegook on an iDevice. You might recall (way back) that I ended up volunteering to sync a Member's iPhone to my desktop because he'd jammed stuff in it with no way out and there's [I]still[/I] no way out.

The same goes for import/export on iOS. Document Interchange is a core iOS function, enabling it would mean there is some point in attaching files to actions. Hundreds of apps (if not many thousands) support OPML, if I draw a mind-map on my iPad, I then have to export the OPML, import it into OO on the desktop, then into OF. Why? All this is GTDVVS, getting things done very very slowly. For these reasons, and many others, I still hold to the belief that it's completely misleading for OF (on iOS) to be flogged as a 'standalone' product.

Yes, you can copy-and-paste actions about on an iPad but it's a chore and you quickly realise what a kludge that is when other apps let you drag-and-drop. Wait!!! You're saying you can search in notes fields on your iPad? You can move actions between projects on the iPhone? OK, help please, what am I doing wrong? :(

Perhaps the proposed complete revamp of desktop OF will simplify it sufficiently to enable better synergy between the suite? I can but live in hope!

Oh, and yes, what's wrong with wanting multiple StOF?!! :)

[QUOTE=Brian;110734].. It's my opinion that you can't really debate someone out of an opinion that they hold. If folks want to try to do that, they're welcome to give it a shot. Treating each other with respect as you try is non-negotiable, though.[/QUOTE]

Duly noted ... and my apologies all around.

[QUOTE=DrJJWMac;110765]Duly noted ... and my apologies all around.[/QUOTE]

I think Brian's comments were really aimed at that miscreant Bill (whpalmer4). :P

[QUOTE=endoftheQ;110766]I think Brian's comments were really aimed at that miscreant Bill (whpalmer4). :P[/QUOTE]

Brian regularly takes me to the woodshed. It's the price I pay for always being right :-)

[QUOTE=endoftheQ;110758]The OmniFolk were eager enough to find resources to leap on the beta-Siri minority bandwagon but 'fixing' contacts which has been discussed since the release of OF for iPhone and was I believe at one time (correct me if I'm wrong!) the most requested item on the Ninjas' lists has never happened, despite waiting year-after-year-after... it's something that would have benefited all iDevice and desktop users and one example (amongst many) why I have such a downer on 'voting'!
[/quote]
They don't actually say that the items on the list will be worked in order of popularity, just that it is a factor in their decision-making. If they are working on a particular area of the app in a release, I would expect that they would go take a look at related requests further down the list. If something is a very popular request, but implementing it would be too destabilizing for a minor release, I would expect it to be pushed off into the next major release. That's certainly what happened with OmniPlan.

As for attaching contacts to actions being a universally desired addition, I know of one person who has never jumped on that bandwagon. My view is that either I expect to call this person repeatedly, in which case I'll put them in the address book and the phone will have it, or it's someone I'm going to call once, in which case address book integration is irrelevant, because the contact won't be in there. Now, I hear you saying "but you'll have to get the phone to look up the number in the address book when you go to make the call" — and my answer is that I would also have to do that same operation to attach the contact to the action. From my vantage point, Omni has allocated the proper amount of resources to this feature :-)
[quote]
You might recall (way back) that I ended up volunteering to sync a Member's iPhone to my desktop because he'd jammed stuff in it with no way out and there's [I]still[/I] no way out.
[/quote]
I'm pretty sure I described how you can do this, but it does require tools not found in the app. I'd characterize it as tedious, but not impossible — the sort of thing I would do once for a friend, but with the understanding that they would watch and take careful notes, because the surgeon's mantra would apply: "see one, do one, teach one" :-)
[quote]
The same goes for import/export on iOS. Document Interchange is a core iOS function, enabling it would mean there is some point in attaching files to actions. Hundreds of apps (if not many thousands) support OPML, if I draw a mind-map on my iPad, I then have to export the OPML, import it into OO on the desktop, then into OF. Why? All this is GTDVVS, getting things done very very slowly. For these reasons, and many others, I still hold to the belief that it's completely misleading for OF (on iOS) to be flogged as a 'standalone' product.
[/quote]
I share some of your unhappiness here. I think there is a substantial set of users for which OmniFocus on iPad is a very reasonable standalone tool. There are others who could be quickly migrated into that set with a small number of changes, with many of those changes being small-scaled compared to enhancements like supporting creating perspectives or possibly the Document Interchange work. There are also people who will find it frustrating not to have all of the power of the desktop version, but that is impossible to provide, and I hope you agree that can't be the only metric for whether or not it is a standalone product. Personally, I do manage to use the iPad for most of my OmniFocus work, even when I'm sitting at the Mac, and I think a few more changes like the Forecast view sort option recently given to the iPhone could cover quite a bit of ground for the Mac-less without having to build a UI for constructing perspectives, for example. Maybe the changes don't even have to be made in the app itself; imagine an Omni web page you could visit from a browser, give it your Omni sync or WebDAV credentials, and it builds a perspective and stuffs it into your database. I'm tempted to try building something like that, because I've got a lot of more important stuff I should be doing instead :-)
[quote]
Yes, you can copy-and-paste actions about on an iPad but it's a chore and you quickly realise what a kludge that is when other apps let you drag-and-drop. Wait!!! You're saying you can search in notes fields on your iPad? You can move actions between projects on the iPhone? OK, help please, what am I doing wrong? :(
[/quote]
I use drag and drop in the iPad OF pretty much every time I edit a project. Perhaps we have different ideas about what that means. I'm reshuffling actions in a project, not trying to assign actions to projects. I don't think the latter would work well with more than a dozen or so projects; I don't think it works particularly well on the Mac, either.

No, I didn't say I could search the notes field on the iOS devices. I speculated that performance issues might be the reason that wasn't initially provided. Perspectives don't search it either (I rechecked that).

Moving actions between projects on the iPhone is possible. For details, send $19.95 plus $5.95 s/h to me at my paypal account :-)

Here's the trick: you edit the project containing the errant action. Select the action, tap on the project field, and assign the new project.

[quote]
Oh, and yes, what's wrong with wanting multiple StOF?!! :)[/QUOTE]
Oh, nothing, of course, just an illustration that some people are never satisfied, no matter how much you give them (I'm a proud member of this club!)

[QUOTE=endoftheQ;110755]Sincere apologies, Brian, my fault entirely. This, however, doesn't get you out of field testing intl. nearby contexts the next time you're in Brighton![/QUOTE]

I was actually in London around Christmas and did some testing in the Stepney Green area but couldn't get the problem to reproduce for me. OmniFocus and the Maps app were both able to locate the building I was staying in based on the post code.

Frustrating, and doubly so because I'll have fewer opportunities to visit your fair country in the future, I'm afraid.

[QUOTE=endoftheQ;110758]you can [...] cut-and-paste from an iPad but not from an iPhone[/QUOTE]

In OmniFocus for iPhone, tap and hold on an items' checkbox to bring up the cut/copy popover. My non-engineer's understanding is that the behavior we use on the iPad wasn't available on the iPhone when we coded that up.

I'll file a feature request just in case later versions of iOS make the iPad behavior possible via the iPhone APIs. That may or may not be the case.

Thanks for taking the time out to respond Bill, you'll be humbled to know I'm always agog with anticipation awaiting your responses to my rants!

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;110772]They don't actually say that the items on the list will be worked in order of popularity, just that it is a factor in their decision-making. If they are working on a particular area of the app in a release, I would expect that they would go take a look at related requests further down the list. If something is a very popular request, but implementing it would be too destabilizing for a minor release, I would expect it to be pushed off into the next major release. That's certainly what happened with OmniPlan. [/QUOTE]

OK, fair enough, except that the delays between releases drift at a glacial pace. You know how that delights me.

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;110772]As for attaching contacts to actions being a universally desired addition, I know of one person who has never jumped on that bandwagon. My view is that either I expect to call this person repeatedly, in which case I'll put them in the address book and the phone will have it, or it's someone I'm going to call once, in which case address book integration is irrelevant, because the contact won't be in there. Now, I hear you saying "but you'll have to get the phone to look up the number in the address book when you go to make the call" — and my answer is that I would also have to do that same operation to attach the contact to the action. From my vantage point, Omni has allocated the proper amount of resources to this feature :-) [/QUOTE]

Oh, so the current method works just fine in your case, you selfish %^& *& * ( !@ [edited by Brian]. I'm guessing that about half my actions require some form of communication, and with thousands of contacts, an action that says 'Ask John about widgets' becomes meaningless in a week-or-so. In OF on the desktop, I'll type 'Ask' and then drag the relevant contact 'John' to the action then type 'about widgets', which works absolutely perfectly in desktop OF. It just needs fixing to generate the same live link in iOS, as you get with a StOF, instead of the current non-working link. I think maybe it's time I should pay a developer to sort this out just for me, huh?

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;110772]I'm pretty sure I described how you can do this, but it does require tools not found in the app. I'd characterize it as tedious, but not impossible — the sort of thing I would do once for a friend, but with the understanding that they would watch and take careful notes, because the surgeon's mantra would apply: "see one, do one, teach one" :-) [/QUOTE]

I don't recall the exact details, but I think the Member was on the other side of the globe, had just bought OF, taken pictures or audio and didn't own a computer. I'm still convinced that it would take Ken little more than his coffee break to code 'email out' into iPhone OF and put an end to this only-have-an-iPhone "what now?" scenario once-and-for-all. I know better than to ever put anything in OF that I'll need to get out whilst on the go, but that's not exactly a productive methodology as it negates me ever using any attachments.

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;110772]I share some of your unhappiness here. I think there is a substantial set of users for which OmniFocus on iPad is a very reasonable standalone tool. There are others who could be quickly migrated into that set with a small number of changes, with many of those changes being small-scaled compared to enhancements like supporting creating perspectives or possibly the Document Interchange work. [/QUOTE]

Is what I'm asking small-scale and will only involve Ken skipping lunch, or is it hundreds of man-hours and I'm going to have to continue to wait until the next ice-age, given the carousel of Omni's other app developments? I'd really like to know. For example, Document Interchange is an iOS function not an OF one, the same as the preview you currently get when you tap on an attachment. If you hold down you should get the iOS 'Open in' list, so if I'm kicking my heels waiting for a client, I tap and hold on a PDF attachment that's in OF and needs marking up and 'Open in' say Goodreader and start being productive.

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;110772]There are also people who will find it frustrating not to have all of the power of the desktop version, but that is impossible to provide, and I hope you agree that can't be the only metric for whether or not it is a standalone product. Personally, I do manage to use the iPad for most of my OmniFocus work, even when I'm sitting at the Mac, and I think a few more changes like the Forecast view sort option recently given to the iPhone could cover quite a bit of ground for the Mac-less without having to build a UI for constructing perspectives, for example. [/QUOTE]

I'm in awe of your abilities with the iPad, I nearly always carry my Air in preference. I agree with you that it's unrealistic to expect the functionality of the desktop, with the caveat that including features such as camera, audio, attachments, etc. when there is no way of exporting them (iPhone) is a benchmark of something that isn't any kind of standalone product. I've always genuinely believed that significant feature requests especially if they might impact on methodology should be the purview of the Fundi's like yourself. Metadata (the theme of this thread before I did my usual hijack) has always had its supporters and detractors and again I think it has topped the charts on many occasions. I think field tags would be a plus, simply because new users can add in hundreds of tags and then slowly get to grips with contexts rather than adding in hundreds of contexts and then getting frustrated. However, whether it actually would be a good thing, I freely admit I've not the perception or experience to know. However, I can't see an argument against searching in the notes field, which would allow the kludge of #cancel, #relocate, etc. so when disaster strikes there's an out, and I honestly believe notes searching is of general benefit anyway in the day-to-day use of the app.

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;110772]I use drag and drop in the iPad OF pretty much every time I edit a project. Perhaps we have different ideas about what that means. I'm reshuffling actions in a project, not trying to assign actions to projects. I don't think the latter would work well with more than a dozen or so projects; I don't think it works particularly well on the Mac, either. [/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, my workflow usually requires me to hack bleeding chunks out of projects and move them to another one on a day-to-day basis, given an infinite number of scenarios and possibilities that can include something as vague as the weather. It's not great on the Mac but it's hideous on iDevices.

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;110772]No, I didn't say I could search the notes field on the iOS devices. [/QUOTE]

OH, YES YOU DID!!

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;110772]"I don't know why the search doesn't handle notes, although perhaps there's a performance issue there. Most people I know with an iPad use it instead of the iPhone. No comfort if you don't have an iPad or don't have it with you, of course, but at least the functionality is there on one platform, unlike some of your wish list items." [/QUOTE]

OK, moving swiftly on....

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;110772]Moving actions between projects on the iPhone is possible. For details, send $19.95 plus $5.95 s/h to me at my paypal account :-)
Here's the trick: you edit the project containing the errant action. Select the action, tap on the project field, and assign the new project. [/QUOTE]

Huh! I didn't think to play the Project not the Action. I'm grateful, as always, for you're willingness to share your wisdom and experience, much appreciated.

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;110772]Oh, nothing, of course, just an illustration that some people are never satisfied, no matter how much you give them (I'm a proud member of this club!)[/QUOTE]

There's dozens of things I think OG should have done, record(action)locking, port-to-PC, OO-to-iPhone first, shared single-action lists, etc. etc. ad infinitum but have always accepted that these might never make any list, even if IMHO they make good business sense. OF on the desktop doesn't owe me a penny, I've definitely had my money's worth. OF on iDevices, sans core iOS functionality, not so much. In fact, it's been a real clunky disappointment that appears to show no sign of improving any time soon. :(

[QUOTE=Brian;110778]I was actually in London around Christmas and did some testing in the Stepney Green area but couldn't get the problem to reproduce for me. OmniFocus and the Maps app were both able to locate the building I was staying in based on the post code.

Frustrating, and doubly so because I'll have fewer opportunities to visit your fair country in the future, I'm afraid.[/QUOTE]

Aw, thank you so much for trying, Brian. I've long since accepted that the OR function is like that senile old tart Siri, somewhat disorientated outside the USA. It's irritating but hardly the end of the world!

I hope you make it back to these shores sometime soon, I've never understood how you can bear to live in a country where you can't use buses!

[QUOTE=Brian;110780]In OmniFocus for iPhone, tap and hold on an items' checkbox to bring up the cut/copy popover. My non-engineer's understanding is that the behavior we use on the iPad wasn't available on the iPhone when we coded that up.

I'll file a feature request just in case later versions of iOS make the iPad behavior possible via the iPhone APIs. That may or may not be the case.[/QUOTE]

Easter Eggs, Brian? Really??! Oh, and whpalmer4 palms me off with some out-of-date rigmarole of a workaround? Nice. OK, off to book essential therapy to deal with the imagery of you and him in the woodshed together. Hey, it's either that or I bring the axe.

Happy Holidays!

[QUOTE=endoftheQ;110783]Thanks for taking the time out to respond Bill, you'll be humbled to know I'm always agog with anticipation awaiting your responses to my rants!
[/quote]
An odd little co-dependency we share :-)

[quote]

OK, fair enough, except that the delays between releases drift at a glacial pace. You know how that delights me.

[/quote]
Hey, I hear you. I made a suggestion over a year ago, in response to some poor fellow who'd been pulling his hair out trying to get the mail rule working. I supplied tested code — a one line patch to the AppleScript — so someone who had made the same mistake would at least get a warning message in the console log. It was cheerfully accepted. Some time goes by, a minor release comes out without this change, and I send a chiding message about how I was trying to make their life easier, giving them code that would ease their support burden, and it goes the way of the 100 mpg carburetor. A year later, having tired of reapplying this change to each sneaky peek that came down the pipe, I got tripped up by the same problem, and after wasting a bunch of time chasing it down, sent a cranky message to Brian and Ken. No response, but a few days later, a sneaky peek comes out with a change in the Mail rule for improved logging! Great! I download that sucker and continue on. After a week or two, I notice that my Inbox doesn't have as much stuff in it as I expect (more than it should, granted!) and in particular, stuff that normally gets inserted by the Mail rule doesn't seem to be there. Now, a lot of that traffic I was expecting related to OmniPlan for iPad testing, and Aaron had yet to set up an auto-responder, so it wasn't a clear-cut case of "I sent in a message and didn't get a response" and so it was only when another sneaky peek showed up and I saw the description again that the lightbulb glowed feebly and I got suspicious. A few minutes of poking around and I had my culprit: my change wasn't sexy enough, so it had been improved upon. No doubt the improvement is just that, except that it apparently didn't occur to anyone to make sure it actually was legal AppleScript for all versions of Mac OS X! I promptly filed the most civil bug report I could produce, pointed out the offending bit in the script, and got back a response thanking me and apologizing for the inconvenience. Another sneaky peek came out a few days later, now two full Omni work weeks ago. Still broken, no attempt at a fix. Yeah, it's a sneaky peek build. Sometimes they are broken. Not clear how leaving it broken is in anyone's interest — fix it, or back it out.

Just before I read your post, I was answering an email from one of the ninjas about a bug report I made yesterday. He referenced a blast from the past — a report I'd made, positively giddy that I finally had a recipe to reproduce this elusive bug that had been present in OmniFocus from the beginning, a bug that Ken had told me at Macworld hadn't been fixed because no one was able to reproduce it. The date on that report? Dec. 2009. Now, in fairness, I didn't actually supply working code for this one, so I suppose I should be more patient :-)
[quote]
Oh, so the current method works just fine in your case, you selfish %^& *& * ( !@ [edited by Brian]. I'm guessing that about half my actions require some form of communication, and with thousands of contacts, an action that says 'Ask John about widgets' becomes meaningless in a week-or-so. In OF on the desktop, I'll type 'Ask' and then drag the relevant contact 'John' to the action then type 'about widgets', which works absolutely perfectly in desktop OF. It just needs fixing to generate the same live link in iOS, as you get with a StOF, instead of the current non-working link. I think maybe it's time I should pay a developer to sort this out just for me, huh?[
[/quote]
Okay, I see how not having the actual contact could be an issue for you, though don't you still want to know which John it is before he answers? I assume you have a far-flung empire of widget builders! I did some poking around at this way back when, and I concluded that the Contacts app in iOS just doesn't have a compatible token you could stick in your action for reference, just like the Mail app in iOS doesn't handle message: links. That means Omni either copies the data from the contact as it stood at the time you made the action (feasible, but risks stale information), or somehow maintains a mapping to the contact in the action and fetches the proper contact through whatever means is available for the platform you're on.
[quote]

I don't recall the exact details, but I think the Member was on the other side of the globe, had just bought OF, taken pictures or audio and didn't own a computer.
[/quote]
Okay, the difficulty factor is getting higher :-)

[quote]I'm still convinced that it would take Ken little more than his coffee break to code 'email out' into iPhone OF and put an end to this only-have-an-iPhone "what now?" scenario once-and-for-all.
[/quote]
It does seem to be a point of pride at Omni to not do any work on the weekends or perhaps even in the evenings. My former employer had the collective wisdom to realize that if they provided us with the necessary hardware and connection, most of the engineering staff would work plenty of extra hours after going home, and little stuff would get knocked off without interfering with the big goals. Occasionally, people even managed to have social lives and families, though the more productive engineers usually steered clear of that sort of thing :-)

I agree that having already solved the problem once for the iPad, the effort to do it for the iPhone app should be much reduced.

[quote]
Is what I'm asking small-scale and will only involve Ken skipping lunch, or is it hundreds of man-hours and I'm going to have to continue to wait until the next ice-age, given the carousel of Omni's other app developments? I'd really like to know. For example, Document Interchange is an iOS function not an OF one, the same as the preview you currently get when you tap on an attachment. If you hold down you should get the iOS 'Open in' list, so if I'm kicking my heels waiting for a client, I tap and hold on a PDF attachment that's in OF and needs marking up and 'Open in' say Goodreader and start being productive.
[/quote]
I can hear you laughing already, but I think there is a desire to not produce a mish-mash of half-baked hacks. I remember Ken talking about how he wanted to be able to send things into OmniFocus, not just out, and that seems more involved to me than just hooking up the means to export something. And aren't you going to expect to shove that PDF back into your OmniFocus action after you've marked it up, so it gets synced to your desktop?

[quote]

However, I can't see an argument against searching in the notes field, which would allow the kludge of #cancel, #relocate, etc. so when disaster strikes there's an out, and I honestly believe notes searching is of general benefit anyway in the day-to-day use of the app.
[/quote]
The only (potential) reason I can think of is performance. Right after filing the bug report mentioned above I was filing another with the 1Password folks, complaining that I'd been misled because their search field in the iPad app didn't search everything, unlike their Mac app (sound familiar?) and the answer that came back was that originally they'd had performance issues searching everything, but now that the hardware had improved, they were revisiting this decision. Maybe Omni will do the same.
[quote]

Unfortunately, my workflow usually requires me to hack bleeding chunks out of projects and move them to another one on a day-to-day basis, given an infinite number of scenarios and possibilities that can include something as vague as the weather. It's not great on the Mac but it's hideous on iDevices.
[/quote]
On the iPad, you can copy and paste action groups. If the bleeding chunk is contained in one, it's easily copied and pasted into the destination. Otherwise, if you are sacrificing the source project, it can be converted back to an action (group), then assigned to real destination. If you need to keep the source project, making it a repeating project, marking it complete, then marking incomplete (and removing the repeat) will get you a duplicate.

[quote]

OH, YES YOU DID!!

[/quote]
No, I didn't, but I can see how you might think that I did. The "it" I was referring to when I said that one platform had it was the "Mail action" feature. You know, the one we were discussing a few paragraphs ago :-)
[quote]
Huh! I didn't think to play the Project not the Action. I'm grateful, as always, for you're willingness to share your wisdom and experience, much appreciated.
[/quote]
It's not exactly healing the sick, but the gratitude that is often expressed is what keeps me coming back. Oh, and my favorite XKCD cartoon:

[IMG]http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png[/IMG]

p.s. My way is better than Brian's way, as you'll discover when you try his :-)

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;110794]Hey, I hear you. I made a suggestion over a year ago...[/QUOTE]

I've always been incredibly appreciative of the massive amount of work you and other Members have put in to OF and the willingness to help those of us who get lost in the complexity. I'm back using it full-time because I've been banned from our work GTD system until I complete a project. It's a bit like meeting up with an old friend, even if I'm not over-fond of the children!

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;110794]I did some poking around at this way back when, and I concluded that the Contacts app in iOS just doesn't have a compatible token you could stick in your action for reference, just like the Mail app in iOS doesn't handle message: links. That means Omni either copies the data from the contact as it stood at the time you made the action (feasible, but risks stale information), or somehow maintains a mapping to the contact in the action and fetches the proper contact through whatever means is available for the platform you're on.[/QUOTE]

I didn't know you'd had a poke! It's certainly seems possible because other apps manage it. It's also a bit odd that even if I cmd-drag a contact to an action on OF desktop, it puts in the .vcf as an attachment, but OF on iOS can't view it. I guess I'll have to break my rule about not contacting devs. re: StOF and ask for this to be added to an app as a favour. I promise you there's nothing more boring than having to call a contact half-a-dozen times, switching between OF and rifling through contacts, before you can tick that box.

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;110794]It does seem to be a point of pride at Omni to not do any work. [/QUOTE]

I so [I]knew[/I] it. :p

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;110794]I can hear you laughing already, but I think there is a desire to not produce a mish-mash of half-baked hacks. I remember Ken talking about how he wanted to be able to send things into OmniFocus, not just out, and that seems more involved to me than just hooking up the means to export something. And aren't you going to expect to shove that PDF back into your OmniFocus action after you've marked it up, so it gets synced to your desktop? [/QUOTE]

ROFL. So, by that argument, if I can't email in, I shouldn't be able to email out?! I s'pose if you don't already make heavy use of Document Interchange with other apps, you might not be hankering after its versatility, for example if someone emails me a file that I want to modify, I just tap and hold the attachment in the email to see my options, courtesy of DI. Besides, if OG enable DI both ways, when you 'Open in OmniFocus' from say Goodreader you'd get a new action in your inbox with the revised PDF as an attachment.

I asked a mate last week to interview and publish an AppSynergy review on Evernote, which in hindsight was how I thought OF would evolve, after Ken posted the code for StOF. I undoubtedly misled myself, envisaging OF as a hub, interacting with a vast array of other apps. For example, I just can't get creative over a project's actions in OF, I want to take them out and play with them, maybe in iThoughts or iMandalart, then put the results back. I've also admittedly tried many times to manage attachments by integrating with DevonThink but always end up feeling like I'm auditioning for a bit part in the Big Bang Theory. I have no doubt that I lack the discipline and patience to go Fundi. It'll always be about how many boxes I ticked, not how or where I ticked them, which is why I'm comfortable delegating categories such as shopping lists and travel to other apps that are more productive than OF or my work GTD system in such specific areas.

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;110794]On the iPad, you can copy and paste action groups. [/QUOTE]

As always, I very much appreciate these workarounds, thank you!

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;110794]No, I didn't, but I can see how you might think that I did. The "it" I was referring to when I said that one platform had it was the "Mail action" feature. You know, the one we were discussing a few paragraphs ago :-)[/QUOTE]

Nice save. ;)

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;110794]p.s. My way is better than Brian's way, as you'll discover when you try his :-)[/QUOTE]

No surprise there then. Just between ourselves, I can't believe he tried to replicate the location 'OR' bug in Stepney Green, where they're still on gas-light and horse-drawn carriages. Unbelievable!

OF multiple tag support
 

OF product managers, I use omni focus for work extensively. love the tool, has everything i would want in a personal task manager. The only ONE thing that is missing is support for multiple tags.

I am a product manager myself and have to track tasks based on multiple axes: customers, engineering release, testing schedule, priority.

I have been using contexts for tagging, but need at least 2 -3 more axes.
I am open to other suggestions that are implementable.

Fellow product manager :)

Tags please
 

I am a recent adopter of OF, and so far happy with it. However, I have just dabbled with Things. Things is nice, but it has crappy links with other apps. But it does have the one thing that I wish OF had: TAGS!

I have read the discussions—OF uses contexts instead of tags. But tags can be used in another way. My projects have to be nested within multi-level folders, and it gets rather tiresome. Much easier to have projects within simple folder structures, and have the added details indicated by tags.

Please :)

The Gedi Worrier

[QUOTE=GediWorrier;113655]... I have just dabbled with Things ... it does have the one thing that I wish OF had: TAGS! ... [/QUOTE]

Plenty of folks have asked and continue to ask for this feature. Search here hard enough and you will find that tags were mentioned some time back as possible meta-content to be added in a future version of OF.

Having used Things some time ago, I can only say that tagging (and multiple tagging) was nice to a point. It was however eventually just a distraction to getting my work done. There are only so many times that you can search for actions that are Today as Errands + Grocery Store or some other combination of multiple tags until you realize that you may as well just have a simple Grocery Store context. In addition, Things never did (at that time) and probably still does not allow ...

* complex boolean searches on tags
* REGEX pattern searches on tags

What good is having multiple tags to help you work when you cannot search for Errands that are .NOT.Work or an equivalent? What good is having multiple tags to help you compile a future work report when you cannot search for actions that are ((wait* .AND. colleagues) .NOT. phone)?

So, while I am not against having tags, I think their best place is as meta-content (not primary content) on a task, group, or project. In addition, they should be put in place only along with the requisite tools that make them really worthwhile having (see above).

In the meantime, other improvements to OF would be far more useful for me.

--
JJW

[QUOTE=GediWorrier;113655]… the one thing that I wish OF had: TAGS[/QUOTE]

Each of these apps has a data model which emerges from (and best suits) a particular way of thinking about what is to be done.

I happen to like the nested structure of OF's model, and the fact that its applescript library and sqlite cache make it possible to bypass any weaknesses in its GUI support for search and reporting, and also provide a good platform for integration with other apps (mainly DEVONthink in my case).

If tags are really an end in themselves, you could look at [URL="http://taskwarrior.org/news/125"]Taskwarrior[/URL] (now preferred by Ethan Schoonover, whose Kinkless scripts for OO3 fed into the early history of OmniFocus).

You may find, however, that its model suits you less in other ways – no folders or sub-tasks, for example (though it does have projects and dependencies and priorities), and generally more suited to a command-line work-flow than to any preference for pointing and clicking.

Tags aren't the end, just the means. Its really not that big a philosophical stretch. No reason why you can't allow tags (even better, tags that can be nested a la the folders and contexts, and searched against). It's not a replacement for folders, or contexts. Just adds a lot more utility.

And, btw, after shelling out for the Mac client, and the iPad and iPhone OF apps, you'll forgive me if I don't wander off to some other app just yet. OF will do for a little while yet.

The GediWorrier

[QUOTE=GediWorrier;113678]OF will do for a little while yet.[/QUOTE]

Sure. And I seem to remember some indications that OF2 may include user-defined fields, which might well support tagging, prioritisation etc.

Closing this thread (and similar ones in the other OmniFocus forums) in favor of [URL="http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=28176"]the consolidated thread for this topic[/URL].