omnifocus or omniplan?
 

is it just me, or is it somewhat inevitable that when one is using omnifocus, one wishes there were some omniplan features available, and when one is using omniplan, one wishes there were omnifocus features available...

in other words, isn't this two apps which could/should be combined and/or be made configurable for much greater overlap or integration? wouldn't it be great to see project progress changes in omniplan reflected in omnifocus and vice versa? the ability to have a visual representation of timelines in omnifocus for example, GTD views etc.

then again, i think omnioutliner and omnigraffle should be combined, along the lines of mindjet mindmanager (i hated going to another outliner since i like omnioutliner so much...)

if omni considered integration more, they would truly be world-beating at their game imo.

You bring up an excellent point about there being a lot of overlap between four different kinds of apps:

1) Omni Focus (dedicated GTD-type app)
2) Omni Plan (project management)
3) Omni Outliner (flexible outliner that can be used for many different kinds of things including 1 and 2 above)
4) Graphical representation of ideas linked together

On Windows, MindJet's Mind Manager is much more powerful than the watered-down (dumbed-down) Mac version, and it can export very well to Microsoft Project and other tools.

The Mac has a good implementation of Inspiration, which can show ideas graphically and in outline fashion.

It's easy to say "combine them", but then you end up with a complex tool that has too many options and different user bases. A project management tool considers start and end times more, priorities, resource assignments, and things like Gant (sp) / PERT charting, things beyond a GTD-type app.

I no longer work in corporate America, but I did for about 15 years as a programmer, database analyst, and manager of some very complex projects.

I would have a file for each project in Microsoft Project (or on the Mac side Omni Plan). I would keep my tasks in Bonsai (or Omni Focus). I would use Omni Outliner to perhaps replace Omni Focus especially since it allows the addition of columns to an outline. I would use Inspiration or Mind Manager or Omnigraffle (sp) for brainstorming.

The main limitation for me of Omni Focus is that there is no way to have multiple contexts, tags, or keywords easily assigned to an activity. Hopefully this will be fixed because it is a huge limitation. I use Bonsai right now for my GTD-type app, but for the Mac-only users, maybe Omni Outliner would work if implemented well (I am licensed for Omni Outliner but haven't explored it enough yet).

Sometimes copy / past, import, export, save as, ... can enable moving or copying information from one app into another. Very few tools though keep things in Sync, with the exception of Mind Manager and MS Project.

We are looking at ways to create more cooperation between OmniPlan and OmniFocus in 2.0 (of both apps). Also, OmniGraffle Pro has a nifty little outline sidebar that will probably become even more powerful in 5.0. All this to say that we agree the lines between these apps are a little bit fuzzy and we continue to seek the balance between flexible tools and feature bloat.

Roll on 2.0!
 

I've been havering about buying OmniPlan because of its limitations in handling multiple related projects. Now that I have finally decided to, I discover that 2.0 is due to be released in "months", but will require a new license.

So I will wait a while longer. And I could SO use OmniPlan-with-more-than-20 tasks now!

OmniPlan 2.0 is still a ways out; at the moment we're still working on OmniPlan 1.5! It's too early to make any real projection of how soon it will ship. (I'd love to see it ship by this time next year, but even that seems optimistic for a major release of a complex product.)

[QUOTE=Journey;31122]You bring up an excellent point about there being a lot of overlap between four different kinds of apps:

I use Bonsai right now for my GTD-type app, but for the Mac-only users, maybe Omni Outliner would work if implemented well (I am licensed for Omni Outliner but haven't explored it enough yet).[/QUOTE]

That is my exact issue with OF, the lack of either multiple contexts or tagging or adding columns. I really need to track things not only by project but by whom the task is assigned and of course the context. My solution has been to use Omni Outliner and heavy use of scripts to create "filters" for each option in each column.

For me anyway it works very well.

The discussion of future version is interesting, I would love to see OO evolve into more of a semi-structured database with strong applescript support. Something lighter than Filemaker, but more powerful than a spreadsheet (I think most people use a spreadsheet for a database as much as a for numbers).

I'm sure this would have the writers guild users of OO turning over complaining but its just a thought.

George

Indeed, combining OmniFocus with OmniPlan would make for an unbeatable pairing. I use both and love each of them, but I find it both redundant and frustrating to be mapping projects with OmniPlan and trying to ensure that what I have listed there fits with OmniFocus.

OmniFocus and the Getting Things Done process is brilliant for getting you to think through the steps in each project and plan accordingly, but what it doesn't do it allow you to get a high-level picture of all of the tasks that are going on at the same time. That's the beauty of OmniPlan -- it allows you to see what your time looks like across multiple projects and plan ahead. If one was to rely on just OmniFocus, you might find yourself with a month where huge project deadlines collide (trust me, I've been there -- hence my need to use both) because you were too focussed on getting things done in the day-to-day, week-to-week kind of way.

One of the simplest ways to ingrate the programs is to allow task assignment in one program to transpose to the other. A true inter-program sync with iCal would make this unbeatable.

Cameron

Omniplan, Omnifocus integration
 

I also agree that integration of these products or even if they could just share information would be excellent. With the introduction of the iPhone app, I could see myself syncing with Omnifocus to get all of the outstanding tasks from Omniplan (for the next x number of days) into the iPhone Omnifocus. That way I would carry around a complete list of activities that are due with me in my iPod Touch. If the distribution could be on a user bases, then each person in the plan could have their own daily rip of data. Put a facility into Omnifocus to fee back when actions are marked as done an have the plan updated automatically at the next sync. That would be very cool. I use a lot of internal markets (HR, IT, Facilities etc) and it would be great to be able to go to these people an ask them how a deliverable is going and if they say its complete, just tick of the item and have it reflected in (my) plan. iPhone with push - the plan could update from multiple iPhones!

Is OmniPlan 2.0 and OmniFocus 2.0 any closer to being a reality? The connection of the two is keeping me from moving to something web based for project management.

BZ

OmniCalendar and OmniContact
 

[QUOTE=cdnorman;32262]
One of the simplest ways to ingrate the programs is to allow task assignment in one program to transpose to the other. A true inter-program sync with iCal would make this unbeatable.
[/QUOTE]

I agree and I'll go one step further and suggest that OmniGroup make a dedicated OmniCalendar and OmniContact module that will work with Focus and Plan and will integrate with iCal and AB for syncing. I'm currently using Daylite for contacts and calendar and I'm dying to find a better solution, and believe me, so are countless other mac users. There is a great void in this area for mac users.

Regarding the overlap of Focus and Plan. I have both as well, and honestly, the structure of both is very similar. If you're a project manager you can pretty much do everything that Focus does with Plan and if you just need GTD, then Focus is really all you need since you can schedule and iCal the items. I use Plan for work and scheduling Projects, and I use Focus for brain dumps, and sorting tasks. I theoretically can do that with Plan if needed as well. But sure, if we can create a perfect scenario then there really should only be ONE application, not 2 with similar attributes.

[QUOTE=Butter;75281]I agree and I'll go one step further and suggest that OmniGroup make a dedicated OmniCalendar and OmniContact module that will work with Focus and Plan and will integrate with iCal and AB for syncing. I'm currently using Daylite for contacts and calendar and I'm dying to find a better solution, and believe me, so are countless other mac users. There is a great void in this area for mac users.

Regarding the overlap of Focus and Plan. I have both as well, and honestly, the structure of both is very similar. If you're a project manager you can pretty much do everything that Focus does with Plan and if you just need GTD, then Focus is really all you need since you can schedule and iCal the items. I use Plan for work and scheduling Projects, and I use Focus for brain dumps, and sorting tasks. I theoretically can do that with Plan if needed as well. But sure, if we can create a perfect scenario then there really should only be ONE application, not 2 with similar attributes.[/QUOTE]

Hello Butter,
Well, I see you're still looking around.... I agree that the Mac really needs a calendar/contact solution. Haven't seen that since the old Now Up-To-Date/Contact days. I see you at the Daylite forums as well looking around just like me. Looking for something.....

Maybe the Omni-folks should just buy out BusyCal! That would give Omni a ready-made calendar product! I hear that the BusyCal folks are a small outfit. Throw some resources their way and maybe we can get to the OmniContacts portion much faster!

Yes, I'm not too fond of Daylite either. Their contact solution works OK but their calendar definitely needs a lot of work.

Daylite's workflow is so roundabout. It would take me a few more clicks to do something that just seems to flow in BusyCal.

I've been trying to figure out SOHO Organizer but their tech support has not been quite sufficient. Their lack of a user forum prevents other users from helping each other out.

OmniCalendar
 

[QUOTE=wilsonng;75283]
I've been trying to figure out SOHO Organizer but their tech support has not been quite sufficient. Their lack of a user forum prevents other users from helping each other out.[/QUOTE]

Ya, I've been looking for a good Contact/Calendar solution for quite a long time, LOL. I don't want this to be about Daylite bashing, as it could take up a new thread, but... let's just say if another company came along with the right solution, it could stand to make a lot of money.

I've been staying away from Filemaker apps, like SoHo and Bento. I don't think the structure is well suited for professional use and integration. And recently Now Software went out of business, so there is even fewer choices out there. Daylite, and Contactizer Pro.

The apps that I've used from Omni are designed well and work well. I would definitely consider a OmniCalendar or OmniContact module that would integrate with Focus or Plan. Thinking about it further, it doesn't even need to sync with iCal or AB, if they would provide other syncing methods, like via Bonjour or WiFi.

Anyway, good luck and may be cross fingers for a good solution.

Owww!
 

[QUOTE=Lizard;31224] [on Jan 15th 2008] We are looking at ways to create more cooperation between OmniPlan and OmniFocus in 2.0 (of both apps). Also, OmniGraffle Pro has a nifty little outline sidebar that will probably become even more powerful in 5.0. All this to say that we agree the lines between these apps are a little bit fuzzy and we continue to seek the balance between flexible tools and feature bloat.[/QUOTE]

So here it is nearly three years after the above message and still nothing that comes close to integration or cooperation.

No tags in OF. No multiple projects in OP. No live integration between OG and OO. I wouldn't mind (even paying for) 4 distinct apps if they could just talk to each other.

Yep, we've been wanting to work on things like that for a long time, and we still do.

That said, it's true that the time we needed to work on our iOS projects - including the syncing that was part of that effort - have meant that some of our Mac projects have taken longer than they were originally planned to. (When the post you're quoting went up, the iPhone app store didn't exist yet, FWIW.)

I know it's frustrating, and I'm sorry for that. If it helps at all, the Mac apps will ultimately benefit from everything we've learned from doing the iOS projects. It's taking longer than was planned, but there is at least some silver lining to that dark cloud.

Seriously. You guys are slower to update your apps than any other company ever. Three and a half years ago, in Jan 2008, someone posted in this thread that you were working on v1.5. Now, in Jun 2011, the apps are up to 1.7. And Omnigraffle has been frozen somewhere between version 5.0 and 5.2.3 for how long now?

Personally, as I've waited in vain for much-needed improvements, I've felt for a long time that you simply abandoned your mac users in favor of cashing in on the iOS gold rush. Your products are not yet mature but have incredible potential. But unless the next major version upgrade is the equivalent of _at_least_ the two major version releases that should have occurred in almost 4 years, I can't see how you expect to be taken seriously by your user base.

I mean, you have four different apps that deal with hierarchically organized data, and after 4 years of user requests they still don't talk to each other? That's like something I expect from Windows apps. No, excuse me, Microsoft has had some sort of functionality like that in their apps for, what, 15 years? 20?

After all these years, Omnigraffle's graphviz DOT rendering still only uses a "subset" (read: slightly short of the bare acceptable minimum) of the DOT spec - and that's when it succeeds in reading it, rather than just crashing the entire program, which is often. And, in 2011, THIS is the most advanced graphing app on the Mac? Has this platform turned into a complete joke?

Back to the thread topic, here's what I need: an outlining program that uses the contexts and other convenient features like OmniFocus, but which lets me add extra columns which can be totaled or averaged, and, if any each outline item contains start/end dates/times, I want to see a Gantt chart, complete with critical path. Apparently, in 2011, this is too much to ask from the Mac platform. I'm getting ready to sit down and write it myself at this point!

I'm glad you got your feet in the door of the iDevice gold rush. I hope you make a fortune, all buy bigger houses, and hire a bunch more skilled programmers. Now, could you please forget about the obsession with fashionable little toys, and create something that runs on actual computers and is adequate for actual business users?

There are so few apps that are capable of what you need them to do anymore. It's like everything's been dumbed-down, and power users who need actual working tools are, for the most part, out of luck on the Mac platform nowadays.

I really wish Omni would buck that "80% of needed functionality is good enough" trend. Your apps have so much potential. But, I don't know if I speak for anyone other than myself, but you need to make the next major revs work double-plus good, or I'm gonna finally be convinced you're just not dedicated to fulfilling my (not extraordinary) business needs.

Anyone who replies TL;DR is a dead man ;-)

[QUOTE=mikirby;98544]Anyone who replies TL;DR is a dead man ;-)[/QUOTE]

OK, alternate version:

The food sucks, and the portions are too small!

[QUOTE=mikirby;98543]I don't know if I speak for anyone other than myself, but you need to make the next major revs work double-plus good, or I'm gonna finally be convinced you're just not dedicated to fulfilling my (not extraordinary) business needs.[/QUOTE]

hi

i'm the great grandson of the OP. you're not alone in thinking this...

A program that combined the functionality of OmniPlan with OmniFocus would be the next killer app on par with the spreadsheet, the word processor, and the web browser. The Omni Group should make it happen, but if it hasn't happened after three years of user begging; it probably isn't going to happen.

[QUOTE=mscarborough;98941]A program that combined the functionality of OmniPlan with OmniFocus would be the next killer app on par with the spreadsheet, the word processor, and the web browser. The Omni Group should make it happen, but if it hasn't happened after three years of user begging; it probably isn't going to happen.[/QUOTE]

No, I don't think it will. They took the poll down from my thread (not very classy) which showed overwhelming support for this among OmniFocus users indicating they're not moving in this direction:

[url]http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=13966[/url]