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-   -   OmniFocus 2! The Debut. (http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=27509)

derekr 2012-12-21 09:34 AM

OmniFocus 2! The Debut.
 
We've just announced a preview-event that we'll be having to introduce OmniFocus 2 to the public. Our CEO, Ken, will talk about the year ahead, and David Sparks and Merlin Mann will be talking about a few new features. We're very excited about it, and we'd love anyone in the area to attend. Find out more and RSVP [URL="https://www.omnigroup.com/thedebut/"]here[/URL].

Since we're not renting out a huge (i.e., not 10,000 seats) space, please do RSVP if you plan on going.

Feel free to ask questions if you have any.

---

The Debut begins at 6 P.M!

fudster 2012-12-21 10:01 AM

Great news! I don't see any mention of a sneaky peek. Actually neither of a release date, aside from 4Q2013. Sneaky peek after the big reveal perhaps?

derekr 2012-12-21 10:10 AM

[QUOTE=fudster;118569]Great news! I don't see any mention of a sneaky peek. Actually neither of a release date, aside from 4Q2013. Sneaky peek after the big reveal perhaps?[/QUOTE]

At the very end of that first paragraph, fudster! For the folks at the big reveal, we'll be handing out private beta invitations. Then, like most of our big updates, we'll expand to others as well!

whpalmer4 2012-12-21 10:12 AM

Which part of "and take home an exclusive invitation to the private beta." didn't make any sense? :-)

Also, from [URL="http://www.omnigroup.com/blog/entry/omni-plans-for-2013"]Ken's post[/URL] on the Omni blog:

"OmniFocus 2, OmniOutliner 4, and OmniPresence. Three major upgrades, all coming your way in Q1, 2013."

One might note that there's no unambiguous definition supplied for "Q1, 2013" :-)

fudster 2012-12-21 10:20 AM

Nuts, I searched for "sneaky peek" (forums too), assuming that phraseology would be used. When reading the announcement I must have glazed over the end of that paragraph after I noted that it's an in-person event.

and, nuts - I honestly did mean to type 1Q2013.

One might note that I hadn't enough coffee this morning. I'll go back to my corner now.

GrumpyDave 2012-12-21 03:54 PM

System Requirements?
 
The one thing I haven't seen mentioned about OF2 is the expected minimum system requirements. Will those of us clinging on to the goodness of Snow Leopard be able to use OF2 or has OmniGroup embraced the new ML only features that Apple is pushing?

I'm hopeful that the privately hosted sync service in lieu of iCloud is a positive sign for Snow Leopard compatibility. By the way, I'm absolutely thrilled that OmniGroup understands the desirability of a privately hosted cloud for those who have the need and the skills. I'm really looking forward to OmniPresence (great name BTW!)

whpalmer4 2012-12-21 04:11 PM

I don't know anything specific about OmniFocus 2's requirements, but I'll point out that OmniPlan 2's current sneakypeeks contain the following in their release notes:[indent]Note: OmniPlan 2.2 is the last release planned that will support Mac OS X 10.6 and 32 bit processors. Subsequent releases will require Mac OS X 10.7.
[/indent]Whatever is driving that for OmniPlan 2 seems likely to also apply to OmniFocus 2, in my estimation. Maybe not immediately, but it seems inevitable, and I'm enjoying my remaining quality time with Snow Leopard!

Splinky 2012-12-22 06:27 AM

[QUOTE=derekr;118570]At the very end of that first paragraph, fudster! For the folks at the big reveal, we'll be handing out private beta invitations. Then, like most of our big updates, we'll expand to others as well![/QUOTE]

It's times like this that it sucks to live on the other side of the world from San Francisco, and have absolutely no chance of getting to the special Omni event to get a sneaky-peak! Live stream?

Stephen Brown 2012-12-24 08:28 PM

[QUOTE=Splinky;118607]It's times like this that it sucks to live on the other side of the world from San Francisco, and have absolutely no chance of getting to the special Omni event to get a sneaky-peak! Live stream?[/QUOTE]

Same here :-(

jkedwards 2012-12-29 10:12 AM

Live Blog or Stream - Yes!
 
[QUOTE=Splinky;118607]It's times like this that it sucks to live on the other side of the world from San Francisco, and have absolutely no chance of getting to the special Omni event to get a sneaky-peak! Live stream?[/QUOTE]

Please do consider a live blog or stream - even if it requires an NDA prior to viewing it.

jbrowning 2012-12-29 10:33 AM

Upgrade Pricing
 
Question: I'm currently using the OF trial and am planning on purchasing when it expires next month. With the launch target for OF 2 being 1Q2013, will I be able to upgrade for free or will I have to purchase an upgrade like everybody else?

Thanks!

skillet 2013-01-01 05:52 AM

Where do we find coverage about last nights meeting?

None of these places seem to have anything about the new features.

[url]http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=27509&page=2[/url]
[url]http://www.omnigroup.com/blog/entry/omni-plans-for-2013[/url]
[url]https://www.omnigroup.com/thedebut/[/url]
[url]http://www.macstories.net/tag/omnifocus-2/[/url]
[url]http://512pixels.net/2012/12/omnifocus-2-is-coming/[/url]
[url]https://twitter.com/OmniFocus[/url]
[url]https://twitter.com/hotdogsladies[/url]

Greg Jones 2013-01-01 06:17 AM

[QUOTE=skillet;118844]Where do we find coverage about last nights meeting?[/QUOTE]
I don't think there was a meeting last night-the OmniFocus 2.0 debut event is January 31, 2013.

BwanaZulia 2013-01-01 12:55 PM

I too thought it was 1/1/2013. Just moved my OmniFocus 2.0 project out to start 1/31/2013.

skillet 2013-01-02 05:32 AM

[QUOTE=BwanaZulia;118852]I too thought it was 1/1/2013. Just moved my OmniFocus 2.0 project out to start 1/31/2013.[/QUOTE]

When I read "Help us kick off 2013" the week before the new year, I was thinking December 31st (even though clearly it says January 31st now that I look back) was when they were meeting. I guess my excitement got ahead of me. Thanks for the help.

tiro 2013-01-02 08:04 AM

[QUOTE=jbrowning;118799]Question: I'm currently using the OF trial and am planning on purchasing when it expires next month. With the launch target for OF 2 being 1Q2013, will I be able to upgrade for free or will I have to purchase an upgrade like everybody else?

Thanks![/QUOTE]

I am in the same situation; my OmniFocus for OS X trial has just lapsed, so I only have access through my iOS device right now. I am sure a lot of people are in this position, given how hard Merlin Mann was hustling for the product on the b2w podcast in December 2012.

If you email sales, they may give you a free extension.

I have decided not ask for a trial extension just yet, and I am waiting (waiting… waiting…) for The Omni Group to announce that all sales from this point forward will be eligible for no–charge upgrades to version 2.

timbuktu 2013-01-04 08:43 AM

OmniFocus 2
 
[QUOTE=jbrowning;118799]Question: I'm currently using the OF trial and am planning on purchasing when it expires next month. With the launch target for OF 2 being 1Q2013, will I be able to upgrade for free or will I have to purchase an upgrade like everybody else?[/QUOTE]
I was in similar situation like other new users, and I decided to write Omni support about it. This is what they said:

Thanks for checking in with us. When OmniFocus 2 enters an open beta, sometime after the debut event on January 31st, customers that purchase version 1 will get a free upgrade to OmniFocus 2. Customers that purchase the app before that point will receive a discount on the upgrade.

I hope it helps everyone!

whpalmer4 2013-01-04 09:26 AM

[QUOTE=timbuktu;118921]I was in similar situation like other new users, and I decided to write Omni support about it. This is what they said:

Thanks for checking in with us. When OmniFocus 2 enters an open beta, sometime after the debut event on January 31st, customers that purchase version 1 will get a free upgrade to OmniFocus 2. Customers that purchase the app before that point will receive a discount on the upgrade.
[/QUOTE]
Interesting. That's a much less generous offer than was made almost two years ago for OmniOutliner purchasers (with no beta in sight): [url]http://forums.omnigroup.com/showpost.php?p=97278&postcount=3[/url]

One possible inference is that OmniOutliner now sells very few copies compared to OmniFocus, so giving away free upgrades to new purchasers isn't foregoing much revenue, and might even accelerate some revenue by getting some potential purchasers off the fence. The cynical might even conclude that there was a lack of confidence that OmniOutliner 4 was ever going to see the light of day, and giving away a free upgrade to an unlikely product was just a way to milk the current product for some additional revenue. The somewhat less cynical might note that the free upgrade offer wasn't exactly shouted from the rooftops, and thus the number of additional sales spurred by the offer might be small, while still netting the credit for being customer-friendly.

Hopefully the OF 2 process doesn't drag out to the point where this thread is still active next year! Shall we start a pool? :-)

squish 2013-01-06 11:28 PM

I will be waiting now
 
Looks like I will be waiting to make a purchase given no free upgrade to 2

will have to stick to ipad only for the time being

it sucks that ipad cant create perspectives without the desktop app

whpalmer4 2013-01-07 02:35 AM

You aren't entirely stuck: you can download the free trial of OF to your Mac and create your perspectives before it runs out, or you can contact the Omni support ninjas and have them create them for you (you'll have to sync your data with the Omni sync server at least temporarily). It is harder than it should be, but not impossible!

enigma2k 2013-01-15 08:22 AM

Will there be a livestream or at least video of the event?

Brian 2013-01-16 12:28 PM

No live stream, but I know the team is currently planning to record the presentation and make videos available afterwards. Hope that helps!

Sprydle 2013-01-16 01:49 PM

I was very pleased to see that a temporary license for OmniFocus v1 has been made available to extend the trial period, until (I am presuming) v2 is released. See the blog for details

I was concerned that I would have to either pay more to upgrade to v2 when released or have to go through some upgrade rigamarole having purchased v1 so close to the release of v2.

Much appreciated as I was thoroughly impressed by v1 of the tool; now I eagerly await the new release and can continue using v1 in the meantime.

John

Lizard 2013-01-16 04:54 PM

The temporary license is only until the Debut event, not all the way until OmniFocus 2 is released.

Cepwin 2013-01-16 06:21 PM

I was hoping the code would work at least until public beta unless there is a free/cheap upgrade path for those of us who want to keep using it until the 2.0 release but do not want to pay twice

whpalmer4 2013-01-16 07:53 PM

The license code expires 2/7/13, a week after the big reveal. There's nothing stopping Omni from dribbling out a series of temporary license codes if they choose to do so; they had the foresight to build that functionality into their license code. Nothing concrete has been said about the expected length of the private beta before the public beta; however, the fact that they are issuing a key at all suggests to me that they understand that people will not want to buy immediately before 2.0 goes into beta and will continue issuing time-limited keys (including for the beta) so that those just now joining the OmniFocus party are not penalized. If you want to use OmniFocus for the long term, you'll have to buy it, of course, but someone buying now on the eve of a new version shouldn't have to worry about "buying it twice" with Omni's very customer-friendly track record. That's just my opinion, I don't work for Omni and don't have any information about the OF 2 beta that you couldn't have read somewhere on the Omni website.

If you are just coming to the party, I think it would be a bit imprudent to immediately trust your production data to anyone's brand-new beta test version of a new product. There's enough of a challenge in coming to grips with OmniFocus when everything is working as intended! There will be bugs. And after those are promptly squashed, there will be more :-) Nothing Ken has revealed suggests the initial version will have substantial new functionality that cannot be achieved in some fashion in OF today. Don't be like the chumps who upgrade their production systems to the latest operating release the day it comes out only to discover Monday morning that no one in the office can print!

lhotka 2013-01-17 06:21 AM

[QUOTE=GrumpyDave;118577]The one thing I haven't seen mentioned about OF2 is the expected minimum system requirements. Will those of us clinging on to the goodness of Snow Leopard be able to use OF2 or has OmniGroup embraced the new ML only features that Apple is pushing?

I'm hopeful that the privately hosted sync service in lieu of iCloud is a positive sign for Snow Leopard compatibility. By the way, I'm absolutely thrilled that OmniGroup understands the desirability of a privately hosted cloud for those who have the need and the skills. I'm really looking forward to OmniPresence (great name BTW!)[/QUOTE]

For those of us in the corporate world, we need a direct sync option - no cloud service is secure.

Brian 2013-01-17 11:07 AM

[QUOTE=lhotka;119353]For those of us in the corporate world, we need a direct sync option - no cloud service is secure.[/QUOTE]

We're not going to require you to sync through the Omni Sync Server if that's what you're asking. Just like Ken mentioned in the blog post [URL="http://www.omnigroup.com/blog/entry/omni-plans-for-2013"]announcing OmniPresence[/URL], if you want to run your own server and sync through that, OmniFocus will happily do so.

(In our experience, Bonjour can be fiddly and difficult to troubleshoot when it doesn't work as expected. For that reason, we recommend WebDAV sync for most customers, but we're not removing Bonjour support. If it works for your setup, OmniFocus 2 doesn't attempt to change that.)

devastat 2013-01-19 10:09 AM

So happy about this, bring it on!

Deinhart 2013-01-23 01:43 AM

Great news. Omni is a great company. Legendary.

drakesplace 2013-01-29 04:11 AM

RSVP for sneak peek
 
I don't see an RSVP link or button on the notice...is that required?

bayshorts 2013-01-29 04:41 AM

Interview with Ken Case!
 
Hey folks....I'm not usually too talkative on these threads, but have been a longtime OmniFocus user, and am super excited about the event coming up this week!

We got an exclusive interview with Ken Case about the event & OmniFocus 2, and wanted to share it with everyone. Check it! - [URL="http://buff.ly/UzMuRZ"]http://buff.ly/UzMuRZ[/URL]

lhotka 2013-01-29 09:24 AM

[QUOTE=Brian;119354]We're not going to require you to sync through the Omni Sync Server if that's what you're asking. Just like Ken mentioned in the blog post [URL="http://www.omnigroup.com/blog/entry/omni-plans-for-2013"]announcing OmniPresence[/URL], if you want to run your own server and sync through that, OmniFocus will happily do so.

(In our experience, Bonjour can be fiddly and difficult to troubleshoot when it doesn't work as expected. For that reason, we recommend WebDAV sync for most customers, but we're not removing Bonjour support. If it works for your setup, OmniFocus 2 doesn't attempt to change that.)[/QUOTE]

I got similar news from your support folks (outstanding as always), and all I can say is:

Yay!

VERY glad to see that Bonjour is still going to be there (it works great as long as you don't fat finger the firewall settings and block the daemon!)

Running our own server also isn't permitted (our CIO doesn't like rogue apps running on the network, and there's other obstacles like not wanting to put personal info on company servers too). Trying to install WebDAV on our own laptops is rather painful to configure in a secure fashion (and far beyond the capability of most users).

Thanks again for Bonjour!

Cristovao 2013-01-30 06:59 AM

Plus 1 for livestream or video of the event !!!

Tado 2013-01-31 04:42 PM

Any one live blogging this ?

mgorman85 2013-01-31 05:21 PM

Sven Fechner said he's updating on twitter: @simplicitybliss

watchit 2013-01-31 08:56 PM

I don't use twitter. can anybody cut'n'paste Sven's report?
or anyone report on the interesting bits?

Omni - is there any indiction of when & where there'll be a video of the event? will you be posting it to your Vimeo feed?

tia

JBB 2013-01-31 09:02 PM

The size of the line was most impressive. Many pedestrians passing by asked what was going on. The gathering was very nice, and the food was good.

The new UI looks great (though I didn't see how perspectives work viz a viz the new sidebar, and was told by the project manager that it's still up in the air).

I was disappointed that other than UI changes (and I would include the forecast and review views as UI changes), no other features are planned for 2.0.

Then again, Omni doesn't have competition with software nearly as good as any of their offerings, so the slow pace of Mac feature iteration on OmniFocus and OmniOutliner is frustrating, but "fair" in some sense.

I do have a suggestion to the team, as far as UI issues go. I'd like to see "Perspective Groups". Right now, I'd love to be able to have a perspective group icon on my toolbar, and click on that to drop down a menu showing its constituent perspectives. It would de-clutter the UI, and make using multiple perspectives easier.

Thanks again for the nice event.

BwanaZulia 2013-01-31 10:26 PM

An photos would be much appreciated.

wilsonng 2013-01-31 11:43 PM

I think most software goes through evolutions rather than evolution.

If a software company decides to radically change the UI, it may upset a lot of users and they'll complain that the old model worked better.

But then if a software company just decides to do small evolutionary steps, some users will complain that it's not "revolutionary enough."

Take a look at Windows 8. It has a that new Metro tile interface that has a lot of old timers up in arms. People were moaning and groaning about the new Microsoft Office ribbon interface and would rather work with the older toolbar interface.

I'll be just happy to get some of the iPad UI into the Mac version.

This is still in beta stage anyways. There's still a lot of work left to do. Some things need to stay to bring a comfortable environment for existing users. Some things will need to change to open doors to new versions.





Besides, there's always version 2.5 lurking out there somewhere. :-O

devastat 2013-02-01 01:10 AM

I just hope that I can import my perspectives in Omnifocus 2 without the need to re-build everything.

pheller 2013-02-01 05:27 AM

[QUOTE=JBB;119823]I was disappointed that other than UI changes (and I would include the forecast and review views as UI changes), no other features are planned for 2.0.[/QUOTE]

No mention of OmniPlan integration?

magobaol 2013-02-01 07:40 AM

It looks very nice. Can anyone say if state filter works like on iPad or like on current mac version?
On Mac there is a state filter for the projects and a separate state filters for the actions, so that I can see active projects with inactive actions inside, while this on the iPad it's impossible.

mvsross 2013-02-01 11:05 AM

Beta
 
I was not able to attend but I signed up for the beta. When will the people who were not able to make it get to beta test the new software.

Thanks!

eurobubba 2013-02-01 11:39 AM

No metadata ("tags")?
 
Looks great, but I really, really wanted some support for user-configurable metada aside from the Notes field, and there still doesn't seem to be anything. It would have saved me an awful lot of fiddling with my folder hierarchy over the years....

whpalmer4 2013-02-01 12:09 PM

[QUOTE=mvsross;119848]I was not able to attend but I signed up for the beta. [/quote]
You and apparently 10,000 other people! Ken seemed pretty surprised by that number.
[quote]When will the people who were not able to make it get to beta test the new software.

Thanks![/QUOTE]
You aren't missing out on anything yet, those in attendance just got a card with a code to register their interest, nothing to play with yet. Rereading the announcement, it is easy to get the impression that we'd be able to download something immediately, but it doesn't actually say that, just that we would get early access to the beta. It appears there is still a substantial amount of development yet to be done (for example, the Review mode wasn't live; we only saw a screenshot of the current proposed design). At this stage it would probably be rather frustrating to use it.

albyrne 2013-02-01 12:47 PM

Just checked the screenshots on the blog. Looks very nice, but, please, please, please, tell me that the display's date format will respect the users OS X system preferences! IE: 'January 30, 2013' is just fine in the USA, but most of the rest of the world use '30 January 2013'

A.

whpalmer4 2013-02-01 12:55 PM

[QUOTE=pheller;119840]No mention of OmniPlan integration?[/QUOTE]Ken has said publicly that OF 2.0 for Mac is primarily "catching up" the Mac version to the look and feel of the iPad, not adding new features not already found in some form on the iOS platforms. Given the response to the announcement and the demo last night, I think they'll want to ship it as soon as they possibly can, not wait around for more feature development to take place. It does look like it should make life easier for new users and experienced users alike, though perhaps not in the same way. The sooner they ship it in some form, the sooner they can resume normal sales volume from that part of the buying public that insists on buying only through the Mac App Store, too.

mvsross 2013-02-01 01:44 PM

Wow. 10,000 people. Amazing. Thanks for the heads up!

wilsonng 2013-02-01 02:08 PM

Here's what some other folks are saying:

[url]http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/02/omni-group-unveils-omnifocus-2-omniplan-omnioutliner-4-for-mac/[/url]


[url]http://aaronhockley.com/first-thoughts-omnifocus-2/[/url]

[url]http://www.mobypicture.com/user/asianefficiency/view/14725277[/url]

[url]http://katiefloyd.me/blog/macworldiworld-omnifocus-2-debut[/url]

[url]http://simplicitybliss.com/blog/2013/2/preview-of-omnifocus-2-for-mac[/url]



Well, it looks like having a standard edition with a lower price will certainly entice some of the Things users who have been on the fence.

Every once in a while, I browse through the Things forums and have seen some of the limitations of Things. I'm sure the switchover will be like a fresh breath of cool air for them.

wilsonng 2013-02-01 07:10 PM

We have to remember that beta versions are functioning versions but with possibly loaded with hidden bugs and an interface that is still evolving.

Use beta software only if you are willing to risk your data.

Ten thousand people? Wow! I guess that would include a lot of other users from competing products such as Things and The Hit List.

I remember being frustrated by the limits of Things but loving the user interface. I often switch between the iPad version and the Mac version of OF and longing to bring the iPAD UI to the Mac version.

*sigh* Waiting for that e-mail from Omnigroup that says we get invited to the public beta!

wilsonng 2013-02-03 01:06 PM

Ken has been a busy man lately


[url]http://www.macstories.net/msinterviews/interview-the-omni-groups-ken-case-on-omnifocus-2-omnioutliner-4-and-more/[/url]

wilsonng 2013-02-03 01:07 PM

The screen shots do look interesting. No more column style (outline) interface. This means that OmniFocus can fit more easily in a smaller screen like the 11" MacBook Air now. *whew*

xoanohn 2013-02-05 05:32 AM

OF upgrade to pro?
 
So if we buy it now, do we get upgraded to the pro version when it comes out?

whpalmer4 2013-02-05 08:38 AM

Yes, if you buy today, you get OF 2 Pro edition for free when it ships. The only people who might want to hold off are those who need to get the lowest possible up-front cost — they should wait and buy OF 2 Basic edition when it ships. That said, if buying OmniFocus now keeps you from missing a credit card payment or two, it may have paid for the difference in cost between the two versions right there. Bringing some needed structure to a sufficiently disorganized life may merit buying the pro version now, even if the feature set of the basic version might suffice.

gazt 2013-02-05 02:02 PM

[QUOTE=wilsonng;119870]
*sigh* Waiting for that e-mail from Omnigroup that says we get invited to the public beta![/QUOTE]

Yep, like checking email everyday...Like a child waiting on next Christmas...starting the day after haha

Brian 2013-02-05 03:58 PM

I'm... just going to put... [URL="https://twitter.com/kcase/status/298440360911335424"]this link[/URL] down... right heeeeeeere... and back away... slowly. ;-)

Executive summary: our best guess right now is March-ish for the beta. Repeat: March-ISH. Which doesn't mean March 1, or March 31, or even rule out the possibility that we'll slip into April... though we'll certainly try not to!

vanduse1 2013-02-06 11:12 AM

Any ideas when the "Early Access" group who were at the event will have their hands on something? It will be great to start seeing some feedback from additional users. (I was at the event so I hope to see something soon. Can you tell I am anxious?).

watchit 2013-02-07 01:34 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Having viewed Video: OmniFocus 2 Debut, I see that when viewing Projects, each individual Action has it's Context written beneath it in smaller font. This is terrific...
[url]http://forums.omnigroup.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2705&stc=1&d=1360276386[/url]
However, when viewing Contexts, each individual Action still has the Context written beneath it. But we can already see what Context it is. This seems to be a wasted opportunity...
[url]http://forums.omnigroup.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2706&stc=1&d=1360276386[/url]
Surely it would be better, when in a Context view to see the Project written in smaller font beneath the Action... in fact the full Project path... e.g.: Kill Dad / buy gun / find gun stores.
Thoughts anyone?

whpalmer4 2013-02-07 02:25 PM

Context mode views are used whenever sorting or groupin on a per-action basis. The context isn't always readily apparent except if you put in a context column in OF for Mac now, and while I'm not eager to lose the project info, not having the context info available on the iPad is a major annoyance in perspectives there.

I wouldn't take the appearance of anything in the promo shots as a done deal, judging from their comments that night, but do speak up if you see something that concerns you!

watchit 2013-02-07 02:32 PM

Thanks for your thoughts whpalmer4.
With the new column-less paradigm of OF2, it seems to me that it would be better if the smaller font line should give the Context when viewing Projects and the Project when viewing in Contexts.
Anyone else have a view on this?

BwanaZulia 2013-02-08 02:15 AM

Totally agree with WatchIt, no point in have the same data twice in the same view. Put the project there.

BZ

hwend 2013-02-12 06:04 AM

I agree with watchit and BwanaZulia. Having the Context when viewing Projects and the Project when viewing in Contexts would be immensely helpful. I have a lot of Context perspectives and it would be great to see what project the Next Action belongs to.

Brian 2013-02-12 11:41 AM

Sorry for the confusion! For the time being, don't read too much into the screenshots or slides from the Debut event - the text in question is placeholder info. We don't intend to show the context in that location when we ship the app for real.

BwanaZulia 2013-02-23 05:37 AM

Please... please... PLEASE... say that the final version will include the count in each view that I see in the screenshots. It has been on my wish list for years.

Why you ask? Because the number of projects in a folder is good indicator of how much work load there is in the that folder (Area of Focus). I like to keep each folder (Area of Focus) to under 20 current projects and total current project count to under 50.

nicoledb 2013-02-27 06:40 AM

[QUOTE=Brian;120007]I'm... just going to put... [URL="https://twitter.com/kcase/status/298440360911335424"]this link[/URL] down... right heeeeeeere... and back away... slowly. ;-)

Executive summary: our best guess right now is March-ish for the beta. Repeat: March-ISH. Which doesn't mean March 1, or March 31, or even rule out the possibility that we'll slip into April... though we'll certainly try not to![/QUOTE]

Has this 'best guess' for the beta become any more specific yet? Please?

bocomoj 2013-03-03 06:27 AM

[QUOTE=timbuktu;118921]Thanks for checking in with us. When OmniFocus 2 enters an open beta, sometime after the debut event on January 31st, customers that purchase version 1 will get a free upgrade to OmniFocus 2. Customers that purchase the app before that point will receive a discount on the upgrade.[/QUOTE]

Omni Group's pricing model needs adjustment for modern times. Purchasing all three apps means loyal users have poured more than $100 into the OmniFocus system. (Not to mention the other Omni apps we've bought.) The price to upgrade needs to be practically zero, if not zero. That's the norm for Mom and Pop developers in 2013.

If Omni Group can't support that model, maybe 50 employees is too many.

whpalmer4 2013-03-03 08:13 AM

[QUOTE=bocomoj;121028]Omni Group's pricing model needs adjustment for modern times. Purchasing all three apps means loyal users have poured more than $100 into the OmniFocus system. (Not to mention the other Omni apps we've bought.) The price to upgrade needs to be practically zero, if not zero. That's the norm for Mom and Pop developers in 2013.

If Omni Group can't support that model, maybe 50 employees is too many.[/QUOTE]

They aren't Mom & Pop developers. If you don't believe the upgrade offers sufficient value, don't buy it. Frankly, given how often they do paid upgrades, if you weren't able to get your money's worth out of the first version, either you are very late to the party (whose fault is that?), or there was no real need to buy it in the first place. It's not like the Omni Group has ever had some sort of monopoly on task management apps.

wilsonng 2013-03-03 12:06 PM

[QUOTE=bocomoj;121028]Omni Group's pricing model needs adjustment for modern times. Purchasing all three apps means loyal users have poured more than $100 into the OmniFocus system. (Not to mention the other Omni apps we've bought.) The price to upgrade needs to be practically zero, if not zero. That's the norm for Mom and Pop developers in 2013.

If Omni Group can't support that model, maybe 50 employees is too many.[/QUOTE]

Buying OmniFocus for all three platforms has paid itself ten times over in helping me with my job and my personal life.

If you think OmniFocus is not worth the price then don't come and play. There are many other alternatives for you.

The hard part about the iTunes store is that it adjusted everyone's expectations that we should pay no more than five bucks for game or productivity apps nowadays.

Let's look at the Mac App solutions since this is the most expensive part of the equation:

Things $24.99
The Hit List $49.95 plus monthly subscription for syncing
2Do $29.99
TaskPaper $29.99
FireTask $39.99
OmniFocus 1 and OmniFocus 2 Pro $79.99 (upgrade at 50% off for approximately $40)

OmniFocus 2 standard $39.99 (upgrade at 50% for approximately $20)


Now it can be argued that OmniFocus is expensive compared to the others but OF1 and OF2 Pro is targeting a different market segment who needs more then just a task list. OmniFocus 2 standard will bring itself in line with the other task managers at $39.99 and is targeting folks who have never used higher end features such as Applescripting and custom perspectives.

If you bought OF1 before January 31 (I believe that's the cutoff date?), you'll get a substantial discount for purchasing an upgrade.


If you think that adding on the iPhone and iPad version makes it too expensive, then you have no need to buy them anyways!

The iPad and iPhone versions won't need upgrading and will work seamlessly with OF1 and OF2. So there is no immediate upgrade cost for you if you already bought them.

Your OF1 will still be functional and is still a worthwhile purchase.

It sounds to me that you didn't get your money's worth. There are plenty of other task managers that would offer the right amount of features and price for you.

But everyone talks about wanting to get their money's worth. When I check the blogs and podcasts, it seems that there are a lot of folks who have definitely gotten their money's worth and more. It takes a bit of investment in time and money to get it going. There is no magic bullet - even with the other task managers.

bocomoj 2013-03-03 04:28 PM

[QUOTE=wilsonng;121030]$79.99[/QUOTE]

Except it's actually OF1 for $80 + upgrade for $40 = $120 for just the Mac app.

Jay6821 2013-03-03 06:25 PM

Nobody is holding a gun to your head! Don't buy it.

wilsonng 2013-03-03 06:47 PM

[QUOTE=bocomoj;121031]Except it's actually OF1 for $80 + upgrade for $40 = $120 for just the Mac app.[/QUOTE]

if you bought OmniFocus prior to Jan 31st then it will be $40.00 upgrade if you opt for OF2 Pro. It will be a $20 upgrade if you opt for OF2 Standard.

OF2 will be a free upgrade if you bought after January 31st.

Or you can elect to not buy it if OF1 is all you'll ever need.

Did your life improve significantly with the $80 purchase of OmniFocus? If it wasn't worth it, then chalk it up to experience and move on to a more suitable program.

I actually like 2Do and FireTask as suitable alternatives to OmniFocus. But I'm not really in any mood to change my workflow when it is working for me now.

babbie 2013-03-04 03:47 AM

I've been playing with 2Do off and on and find some nice features (e.g., tags) but it is still very unstable--at least for me. It crashes too often and does weird, unpredictable things. I hope they can clean it up.

DHewes 2013-03-10 06:18 AM

I have no issues with paying a fair price for the software. It doesn't code itself and if OMNI cannot make money it shuts it's doors - bad for everyone. That said there are two models that are common from Mom & Pops all the way through the big boys...

1) Upgrade through an annualized process. You purchase a base license and you get free upgrades for 1 year. Each year you can renew - which includes support and free upgrades - at around 30% the price of the product.

2) Most players at this point are offering the iOS versions free with purchase of the main version (Windows/MacOS/Linux/Whatever). Omni could offer a "stand alone" iOS version for those that only want that for a fee and then say something like a "Sync" or "Remote" version or whatever they would like to call it that requires the primary laptop version be owned.

The driver for #1 above is to remove fear of purchasing. I have OF on the iPhone and iPad and just bought it for my MBP w/R since we are in the free upgrade window. I am waiting until OG and OO get to that point before I buy those. They are so close that I would not (in my opinion) get my money's worth for the short period of time. If I knew I would get a free upgrade for a year (plenty of time to get my money's worth even if no upgrade ever came) I would buy them in a heartbeat. The current model leads to anger towards Omni and keeps potential customers from pulling the trigger "until the next version is released." I sincerely believe Omni would make more money if they adopted this policy.

The driver for #2 is primarily psychological. If I buy a $200 app like OP on my Mac then 9 out of 10 companies will provide an iOS companion app. Sure OF/OO can be used exclusively on iOS, so Omni would need to have "that" version as well - even if only a license difference. In fact, should only be a license difference to allow seamless upgrade. What really gets people hot is when they buy that $80 OF license, then get git $40 for the iPad and another $20 for iPhone (most companies are going with the iPad/iPhone unified app model). So $140 total. And then if you buy it the wrong day you get another $40 for the Mac upgrade and there is no upgrade path for iOS so iPad and iPhone are new purchases. This model just gives the public impression that Omni is out to screw you for every dime they can. You could charge $120 for a Pro+ version of OF that included iPad/iPhone versions as well as 1-year upgrade protection and I bet sales would increase significantly.

enigma2k 2013-03-10 05:24 PM

any information on when the beta will be available?

wilsonng 2013-03-10 07:20 PM

[QUOTE=enigma2k;121256]any information on when the beta will be available?[/QUOTE]

Here is the prior post in this thread:

[url]http://forums.omnigroup.com/showpost.php?p=120007&postcount=57[/url]

wilsonng 2013-03-11 11:15 PM

[QUOTE=bocomoj;121031]Except it's actually OF1 for $80 + upgrade for $40 = $120 for just the Mac app.[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.asianefficiency.com/productivity/omnifocus-is-too-expensive/[/url]

A quote from the article:
[QUOTE]
the more money you invest in something, the more likely it is that you’ll use it[/QUOTE]

magobaol 2013-03-12 12:49 AM

[QUOTE=wilsonng;121301][url]http://www.asianefficiency.com/productivity/omnifocus-is-too-expensive/[/url]
[/QUOTE]

I totally agree with the article.
The only thing I think could be changed it is the trial period length: 14 days are a period too short to evaluate such a complete (and complex) software, to see if it fits for oneself.
30 days should be the minimum, 60 days would be perfect.

Francesco

bocomoj 2013-03-16 06:32 PM

[QUOTE=wilsonng;121301][url]http://www.asianefficiency.com/productivity/omnifocus-is-too-expensive/[/url][/QUOTE]

Yeah, but the entire premise of the article is flawed. OF doesn't "save you time." In fact, it takes more time to add all your projects and action steps into OF before you "do them." Since you were going to "do them" anyway, OF is pure time-overhead. So a "don't you value your time at more than $2.70 per hour" argument doesn't work.

Because it helps you stay organized, OF might increase your productivity, allowing you to get [B]more[/B] done in a typical work session/day/week. I guess this could buy "free time" for some folks, who have a set amount of work to be done each session/day/week. For those of us who run large organizations, however, the number of new tasks added to our plates is [B]always[/B] larger than what we accomplish, no matter how productive we are. In the real world, most people can't buy more "free time."

What OF [B]does[/B] is help with task prioritization and assuring you CYA by not forgetting important work. Are there value in these? Sure. $180 worth of value? Not so sure.

Anyway, the original point remains: the current Apple software model is (1) low cost of entry, followed by (2) automatic updates with no additional purchase. That's the model for both the Mac and iOS stores. It's what we now expect.

The average cost of an iOS app is far below $1.

wilsonng 2013-03-16 11:36 PM

[quote=bocomoj;121437] In fact, it takes more time to add all your projects and action steps into OF before you "do them." OF is pure time-overhead[/quote]

Uh, it take more time to add all your projects and action steps into [B]any[/B] task management program. There's overhead in any program. But this prevents the 7 Ps - "Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance"

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_Ps_(military_adage[/url])


I think the planning overhead is worth the time saved if it helps me get on the right track (or as close to the track as possible). That's what OF can do for me. I lose a lot more time if I don't do any proper planning.

[QUOTE=bocomoj;121437]In the real world, most people can't buy more "free time."[/quote]

[QUOTE=bocomoj;121437]
What OF [B]does[/B] is help with task prioritization and assuring you CYA by not forgetting important work.
[/QUOTE]

I don't think it's about buying more free time. It's about choosing a task/project based on the current circumstances (energy available, time available, tools available) and getting at least something done.

OF saves time by letting me capture everything into one inbox and then help me process and organize my projects and tasks. I don't have to stop and ponder about what I need to do next.


[quote=bocomoj;121437]however, the number of new tasks added to our plates is always larger than what we accomplish, no matter how productive we are. In the real world, most people can't buy more "free time."[/quote]

I save time by looking at my projects in OF and determine what I can delete, delegate, or defer.

If I can delegate a project to someone else who has more time, skill, or tools to complete a project, I just saved time there.

I also save time by doing my weekly review and delete projects. If I slowly realize that a project doesn't really align with company goals (or even personal goals), I arrange a meeting with the boss and bring it to their attention. This project does not align with the company mission statement and I think it should be deleted. It doesn't happen often but I can lighten my load by discriminating whether a project's return-on-investment is good enough to keep the project.

Or I might realize that a project is stalled and either needs revision (revise the subtasks or goals of project). I saved time and futility by realizing that a goal is not properly planned or is not correctly goal-aligned. Then I go ahead and revise it or delete it.

[QUOTE=bocomoj;121437]The average cost of an iOS app is far below $1.[/QUOTE]

I'm guessing that we're going to be counting the ten different flashlight apps and fifty fart apps at free or 99¢? We have to distinguish these novelty apps from a project/task management app such as OmniFocus, Things, etc. Let's disregard the very simple iOS checklist apps and look at something a little more powerful that has project and task management features.

Things for iPhone $9.99
Things for iPad $19.99

2Do $9.99

Pocket Informant Pro $14.99

Firetask for iPhone $5.99
Firetask for iPad $9.99

Hit List $9.99

TaskPaper $4.99

OmniFocus for iPad $39.99
OmniFocus for iPhone $19.99

Wunderlist 2 - free for basic use (with monthly $4.99 pro plan for more storage space and tech support)

That doesn't look like an average price of 99¢.




[quote=bocomoj;121437]
Anyway, the original point remains: the current Apple software model is (1) low cost of entry, followed by (2) automatic updates with no additional purchase. That's the model for both the Mac and iOS stores. It's what we now expect.[/quote]

OmniFocus 1.0 was released in January 8, 2008. We've had free updates for the last five years. A version [B]upgrade[/B] is different from an [B]update[/B]. We can argue endleslly that version 2 may or may not be enough of an upgrade to warrant a version 2.0 label.

[url]http://www.omnigroup.com/products/omnifocus/download/releasenotes/[/url]

But, in any case, I think five years is a long time between upgrades and paying a discounted upgrade price to support a company to ensure future updates seems worth it to me. Maybe not enough for you?

A low cost of entry would be nice (heck, free would be better). But if you don't want to support future updates, you have the option of sticking with OF1 and not even bother with OF2.

But I've tried other programs. Wunderlist 2 is free. But it didn't compare to what I could do in OF. But there will be a segment of the market that will find its home in someone else's application folder.

Things is considerably cheaper. But it wasn't the right fit for me despite the lower price point. So that invalidates the notion that a lower cost of entry.

OF does have a demo mode that allows you to try it free for 14 days. That's a low cost of entry. If you really liked it enough, then you can pay for it.

Or if you find that another program provides a better fit for your needs, you can always discontinue using OF.

I love having the cheaper price points but I don't always expect it. Heck, the lower price points for iOS has actually distorted realistic price points in terms of software development costs vs sales price.

I remember having a conversation with someone about an iOS app. She asked me how much it was. i said 99¢. She said "oh. I won't buy it then. I it should be free." I had a facepalm moment there. I wondered how anyone can think 99¢ was to high a price point for a video game that would bring them hours of entertainment. That is reality distortion.




[Quote=bocomoj;121437]$180 worth of value? Not so sure.[/quote]

It appears that OmniFocus is still a very popular program despite being "expensive." I think if I've seen enough bloggers and podcasters choosing OmniFocus, then there must be something to OmniFocus that price is a secondary factor.


I got my $180 worth. And it appears that a lot of bloggers have gotten their $180 worth as well. Did you?

Expensive? Sure. But you get what you pay for. If you don't think the features of OF isn't worth the money, there are always cheaper programs that might fit you better.

CatOne 2013-03-17 07:08 AM

[QUOTE=bocomoj;121437]

What OF [B]does[/B] is help with task prioritization and assuring you CYA by not forgetting important work. Are there value in these? Sure. $180 worth of value? Not so sure.
...
The average cost of an iOS app is far below $1.[/QUOTE]

Well, then you should have no problem doing without it, I suspect.

Look, if it's too expensive for you, don't buy it. It's up for the Omni Group to decide on the price, and for you to buy it if it's worth it to you.

If enough people decide not to buy it that Omni notes sales are below what they want, then perhaps they'll adjust their price. But with thousands (tens of thousands? I forget exactly but the blog had the numbers) of people registered for the OmniFocus 2 beta, I sorta suspect there are enough people willing to pay the prices that they're not going to drop the price to $1 (LOL).

mvettel 2013-03-27 06:57 AM

[QUOTE=Brian;58317]I also use "Desk" and "phone" contexts; additionally, I have contexts for the various folks here at Omni. Discussions I need to have and tasks I've delegated and need to check back on are the main things that end up in those people-contexts.

I know Ken has contexts for his "coder" headspace vs his "ceo" headspace, so he doesn't distract himself with tasks from one while working on tasks in the other. I get the impression you're self-employed; maybe separating out the "work on this design task" actions from the "run my business" ones would be helpful in cutting down on the apparent size of the Work list?[/QUOTE]

Do you have plan to integrate "share" function of a action with others via email in your OF 2.0?

JamesX 2013-03-27 08:09 AM

[QUOTE=wilsonng;121259]Here is the prior post in this thread:

[url]http://forums.omnigroup.com/showpost.php?p=120007&postcount=57[/url][/QUOTE]

any news yet on private beta?

whpalmer4 2013-03-27 08:38 AM

There are still a few days left in 1Q13, what's the rush? :-)

Remember, when a software guy gives you a time estimate, you need to double the number and switch to the next larger unit :-)

Lizard 2013-03-27 10:36 AM

Please move further discussion of OmniFocus 2 over here: [url]http://forums.omnigroup.com/forumdisplay.php?f=71[/url]


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