New OmniFocus 2 for iOS7
 

I saw the release announcing the new OF2. Wondering if OF1 will still work on iOS7?

I was wondering the same thing.

And will the new OF app be on sale/discounted price for a short time ?

[QUOTE=jhsidoc;127139]I saw the release announcing the new OF2. Wondering if OF1 will still work on iOS7?[/QUOTE]

They said in the blog post it should.

Works fine. Been using iOS 7 and it for months

Also been using for months. Is almost fine.

Just tried it out. At first glance (a quick test) I can't see any issues and sync is OK.

Has anyone seen OmniFocus 2 for iPhone? Other than being built for iOS 7, how much different is it from the existing OF for iPhone?

Let me guess, given that it doesn't say it explicitly in the blog post, we'll all have to pay the full price for each version 2 app?

Any clue as to what OF2 will bring besides iOS7 ?

[QUOTE=JKT;127159]Let me guess, given that it doesn't say it explicitly in the blog post, we'll all have to pay the full price for each version 2 app?[/QUOTE]

It sounded like it. Given there hasn't been a paid upgrade to OmniFocus since the original version shipped in June 2008, it seems reasonable for them to charge for an upgrade. You don't need to upgrade if you don't want, and the App Store has no mechanism to offer discounted upgrades.

[QUOTE=halexis;127161]Any clue as to what OF2 will bring besides iOS7 ?[/QUOTE]

This is my question exactly.

I have no problem paying for OF software, OF for iphone and ipad have both paid for themselves many times over.

For this to be a version 2 release, it should have something significant to bring to the party with new features and / or technology.

I"m sure they will publish some preview screen shots or something very soon . On another note , I've been wondering if the feds are going to start looking closer at apples " lack of upgrade mechanism " on the app store . Seems like it shouldn't be that hard to set one up ?

As everyone can probably guess, we've been quite busy around here for the last couple of days, but I wanted to confirm several things that have been said in the thread.

Installing iOS 7 doesn't force you to stop using OF1 if you'd prefer to do so. The app launches and is useful on the new OS.

In addition to the completely redesigned and rebuilt UI, iOS 7 makes some things that customers have been requesting for years possible where they previously weren't. (Yes, there are goodies under the hood, in other words.)

It'll be a [URL="https://twitter.com/kcase/status/378230329267339264"]few more days[/URL] before we can answer questions more specifically, but we'll have screenshots and a video ready at that point, as well. Hang tight. :-)

True but I'm almost certain they will do what a lot of other apps have done like 1password and make the new app 50% off for a week or two as a thank you to earlier adopters who stay on top of things.

[QUOTE=CatOne;127168]It sounded like it. Given there hasn't been a paid upgrade to OmniFocus since the original version shipped in June 2008, it seems reasonable for them to charge for an upgrade. You don't need to upgrade if you don't want, [B]and the App Store has no mechanism to offer discounted upgrades[/B].[/QUOTE]
It's true that OF hasn't had a pay for upgrade since 2008 but not everyone will have bought it then (I did, btw, but not the other OG iOS apps due to go to v.2 that I bought much more recently). It's the reality of the App store's lack of upgrade pricing that I hope and wish OmniGroup recognise means they need to adopt a different charging regime. A week or 2 after initial release like 1password at e.g. half price is a good compromise IMO. It means that current users get the opportunity to upgrade with a discount but obviously it means they lose out for any new users who purchase in that period. However, isn't it better to keep loyal customers loyal than to lose your core base due to bad feelings around a sense of being gouged.

Price
 

If it helps to ensure the longevity of Omni Group, the maintenance of their apps and the support they offer, I'll happily pay more.

For the amount of value OmniFocus has given me over the last few years the paltry amount I paid works out to be one of the best investments I've ever made. I'm not going to quibble over a further contribution, especially if I get a better app out of it.

I hope they charge a fair price which reflects the work that's been put in and the value users will get out of it.

I guess they have to pay for that shiny, in-house theatre of theirs [I]somehow.[/I] :)

This is the new reality. Pay the price for the apps. But a new reality is that the apps are priced lower than traditional apps used to be.

I sometimes wonder whether I should pay $60 for a console video game or just pay $10 for an iPad video game.

At these new lower prices, it's still a bargain.

OmniFocus has shown its value to my daily life ten times over. I'd pay the same price if it helps my life out.

[QUOTE=wilsonng;127208]But a new reality is that the apps are priced lower than traditional apps used to be.[/QUOTE]

That's definitely true in many cases ... though I'd argue that Omni hasn't at all adapted to that new reality. The older pricing models still seem to work for Omni at the moment, though my personal guess is that they're not going to be sustainable for them in the long term. If it works for now, though ... more power to them, I suppose.

yes, that's true about Omni pricing their apps higher. But I guess some programs will never be priced any lower. If you think you got value for your purchase, then you'll feel justified to paying that high price. Otherwise it is a bit too much for buyers who don't use it enough to justify its price.

I use OF every day and live off of it. So I'll get my full money's worth out of the purchase of a new app version. My sister is quite happy with Reminders on the iPhone. She just shakes her head when she sees my OmniFocus setup. My life has a bunch of grouped tasks or projects. So I'll need OF for iPhone. Her life tends to be more of a bunch of single tasks that can be placed into simple lists or groups. She's quite happy with Reminders. At least we have choices.

We are also seeing a new business model in the software industry. Now we are asked to go a subscription model. Microsoft Office 365 and Adobe Creative Cloud are the first salvo in an evolving industry. It may feel uncomfortable and strange at first. But it'll get accepted in the same way we pay for cellphone service or cable TV service.

In-App purchases have also become trendy to attract users to buy features in an ala-carte method. Just buy the features that you want or you can buy the entire package. Imagine a spreadsheet program. You get basic features for free or low cost. But then you can buy an engineering package for an additional sum for those that need those features. Then there could be a statistical package for those that may want those features.

It's interesting to see how the industry has evolved over the years.

It's really a matter of perspective.

The bottom line, the Omni Group is a business and they have a need to sustain themselves. One of the reasons they've been able to do so for so many years is directly related to the fact their apps bring a ton of value to their users, who then become loyal and keep purchasing their products. They aren't cheap, but you get what you pay for. They wouldn't be around this long if their apps sold for 4.99 or continually offered free upgrades.

Take for instance the work a person does. You get paid to go to work. Let's say you're an office worker and have worked for the past 3 or 6 months on this important project. You complete the project and 2-3 months after completion, you get a new boss, who doesn't necessarily agree with the direction and wants you to make some modifications to your deliverable which will take you another 2 months. On top of all that, your boss wants you to do it off-hours, on your own time, without getting paid. You going to do it? Hell no.

It's really the same principal. So many individuals don't realize that the people at Omni Group put food on their plate and are able to live a decent living by charging for their apps. If they charged 4.99 and gave updates away for free, you probably wouldn't be seeing the quality you do.

Then again, if you're using an app like OmniFocus as a simple task manager, then I agree, repaying is a kick in the balls. But if you're using OmniFocus the way it was meant to be used, then the time and money you've saved (even after only a few months of use) will pay for the price of a new version ten fold.

What is the status of users like me, who purchased within last 6-8 months? or even in the last few days? Omnigroup could give them "Coupon codes" to get it for free from app store and maybe ask for the cut, they are paying to Apple.

To be honest, I guess one of several things that has me feeling a little cranky about this is the fact that Omni has been saying that they don't want to make substantial changes to the data fields in the OS X app (like tags) because of potential compatibility issues with the existing iOS apps. Now we find that iOS codebase is simultaneously receiving an update apparently substantial enough to warrant a charge. There's something in the combination of those events that feels slightly disingenuous to me, and it makes me wonder whether Omni will ever have the courage to be truly progressive in its app development.

OmniFocus 2 is live.

[QUOTE=civilian;127226]What is the status of users like me, who purchased within last 6-8 months? or even in the last few days? Omnigroup could give them "Coupon codes" to get it for free from app store and maybe ask for the cut, they are paying to Apple.[/QUOTE]

The status is, it's $20 ;-)

Can't wait to get home, update to ios7 and then rip out my wallet to buy Omnifocus2. Looks gorgeous.

I've downloaded and synced up OF 2 for iPhone but none of my attachments that are PDFs are showing up. Any ideas? I even tried sending a new attachment and opening it in OF 2 but it still won't open, just shows a PDF icon.

pjl336: Email us so we can investigate in more detail? [email]omnifocus@omnigroup.com[/email]

Thoughts on OF2 for iPhone interface
 

Overall I like the interface simplification, but I think there are a few refinements needed to help clarify how things work.

(1) - When in the Projects view, having the folder icons appear off to the right is a bit confusing. When I look at the list of items, they appear to all be the same until I look to the right and see the folder icon for folders, or the little arrows for projects. I then have to shift my eyes back to see what I was looking at in the first place.

Proposed solutions?: Either put a tiny icon to the left or just under the folder name. This solves the confusion of having to look too far to figure out what you're looking at (and presents an opportunity to put a small icon indicating what type of project you're working with in the same spot for projects).

OR... do away with the distinction entirely. Just use arrows for folders and projects, or--even better--get rid of the arrows entirely. We know that when you tap on an item you get taken to whatever is inside it. The visual cue of arrows does nothing for us in this context.

(2) - For date-based perspectives, like "Due" or one I created called "Chronology" that just lists all tasks in order of their due date, you need to refine the typography to better convey the structure. Problems with the current implementation include:

-redundant date information - it appears both at the header above the tasks for the day AND in the lower right of each task. One or the other is sufficient.
-depending on what you do with the redundancy, a tweak to the font sizes/boldness/colors/indented-ness for each task could help clarify things. Right now, these perspectives appear very crowded and confusing because everything is left justified, and the background shading/font size changes are too subtle to make the structure clear. Even just centering those date headers could do a lot to improve this.

Thanks!

PS - when's OF2 for iPad expected? (I know you guys don't do dates, but some idea of your roadmap would be appreciated...)

So no grace period for current users to upgrade to any of your apps at a reduced price? That is really, really poor OmniGroup. Really poor.

Sorry if I can't join the bandwagon of people ecstatic to be paying the not inconsiderable full price for all your apps again, but you need to hear this from those of us who are not at all happy about this. Particularly when apps like OmniPlan 1 for iPad have been barely usable since its release, as the majority of the reviews on the App store have been testament to. You have been charging premium prices for, frankly, sub-par software and now you are doing it again (because, as far as I can see from the OmniPlan images and blog entry, not too much has changed to actually make it easy to use - STILL no quick entry ffs)?

And spare us the excuse that Apple don't offer an upgrade mechanism. We know, so why not work around it like everyone else has had to for crying out loud?

cpac: We're getting back to work on OmniFocus for Mac, and we'll tackle OmniFocus for iPad after that.

@JKT: I guess OF 2 for iPhone isn't worth the $20.00 for you. You're not forced to buy it. Keep OF1 for iPhone if you still need it.

I think the new business model will turn into something like the movie industry. If you watched the first Harry Potter at the theater for $10.00, you're not gonna get a discount coupon for Harry Potter 2 or the remaining sequels. We pay full price for the remaining movies. It's the same with the book series. We'll pay full price for every book.

The software industry is getting turned upside down. We're facing a new world now.

I jumped to the last page, so apologies for whatever I missed.

I have a Macbook Pro. I have an iPhone. I have an iPad.

While I'm not averse to supporting Omnigroup for the incredible value I get from their products, how much is it going to set me back to stay current on all three?

What would be the most compelling reason to upgrade?

OF 2 looks awesome. I will buy it as soon as I'm able to upgrade to iOS7. I think the lack of dedicated home button will drive me insane though.

I hit the home button constantly in the old version. Having to tap and hold will had far too many seconds to my work flow. :/

Save+ button is a great idea though.

[QUOTE=Vramin;127248]I jumped to the last page, so apologies for whatever I missed.

I have a Macbook Pro. I have an iPhone. I have an iPad.

While I'm not averse to supporting Omnigroup for the incredible value I get from their products, how much is it going to set me back to stay current on all three?

What would be the most compelling reason to upgrade?[/QUOTE]


If OF2 for iPhone is $19.99 and I would suspect that OF2 for iPad would be $39.99.

The OmniFocus 2 for Mac upgrade pricing is here:

[url]http://www.omnigroup.com/support/omnifocus-2-upgrade-pricing[/url]

At least, you'll get a break on the Mac version if you bought it directly from Omni's store.

pretty bad UI changes
 

Huge waste of space in omnifocus 2 allows only about half the tasks to be visible on screen vs. omnifocus 1.x.

Pretty disappointed with new version so far.

well, i guess there's a fine balance between trying to cram as much info as possible into a 4" screen and using white space to provide clarity to distinguish sections.

Hopefully you kept your OF1 downloaded on your computer.

A Few issues
 

Hi Everyone.
While I like the new app in general, I am having a few small problems that I am curious if others are also having.

1. When editing a note, within an action within a project, I am finding it almost impossible to get the curser to go to where I want it to. Imagine you have a listing like below:

John -
Steve -
Caroline -
Bill -
Chris -

If (after the fact) I want to add information after each hyphen, it is almost impossible (not entirely) but very difficult to the get the curser to go to the end of each line.

I've been using the OF 1 on my iPhone for years, and had no problem until the current release. I pulled up the older OF to compare, and have zero problems with the curser.

2. The app no longer seems to sync on opening, and now needs you to hit the sync button to get it to update. I use the omni sync server. Any way around this ?

thanks
J

I know it is only a difference of $10 but it still incredibly knocks my nerves that omni refused to offer a 50% discount in the first week or so.

They even had a comment on twitter that they considered it but this type of discount rewarded the wrong type of customer. Really felt offended by that. Really, the people who follow you and will buy week 1 are the wrong type of customers to reward?

Definitely considering other gtd systems at this point. Is OmniFocus the best? Maybe. Will they care that they have momentarily lost me as a customer？Almost certainly not. Will I have to tuck it between my legs and come crawling back in a few weeks? Probably.

All that being said I just hate the way they handled the situation and communicated it to loyal customers. It almost seems luge trey are trying to draw a line in the sand with apple about upgrade pricing not caring who is left in the cross fire.

End rant.

[url]http://www.asianefficiency.com/productivity/omnifocus-is-too-expensive/[/url]

This is an argument that will rage on endlessly. I fear and think that the days of software upgrade pricing will be coming to an end.

We've seen this argument when OF1 was being sold. We saw it again when OF1 for iPhone and iPad was released. We're seeing it with the OF2 upgrade pricing being debated. We're seeing it again with the OF2 for iPhone being released.

In the link I posted previously, there is one idea I do support:

If you use it every day and it improves the quality of life, isn't twenty bucks such as a small investment that can yield bigger gains and rewards worth it?

It's like an expensive pair of shoes. If they are high quality and you use it a lot, isn't it worth it? I know I get the "Macs are too expensive" argument. If I only use a computer to check Facebook, read e-mail, and surf the web then it probably is too expensive.

But if I use my Mac to it full potential every day - designing brochures, laying out publications, managing various projects in my life - then I'd argue that my Mac wasn't expensive at all.

This is notion of rewarding loyal users with upgrade pricing is going to become a thing of the past. THat's what I feat that the world has come to. But that's alright. I got my twenty bucks worth out of OF2 for iPhone. If you felt that OF2 for iPhone was too expensive at $20 then perhaps it's not the right product for you?

The people who bought on week one was probably more than willing to pay the twenty bucks. These first week customers weren't looking for a reward. They bought in already.

Great job on OF2 for iphone, I was glad to spend $20 for the updated build. I am an omnifocus rookie and had invested in the original for iphone and ipad, thought they were really good as well..

Happy to support a quality company !!!!

Looking forward to OF2 for Mac....

[QUOTE=omninutz;127256]I know it is only a difference of $10 but it still incredibly knocks my nerves that omni refused to offer a 50% discount in the first week or so.

They even had a comment on twitter that they considered it but this type of discount rewarded the wrong type of customer. Really felt offended by that. Really, the people who follow you and will buy week 1 are the wrong type of customers to reward?[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry I didn't explain that comment better on twitter! I assume you're referring to [URL="https://twitter.com/kcase/status/378229513479401472"]this tweet of mine[/URL]:

[QUOTE]Considered that option, but it discounts for the wrong audience—i.e., for those who see and buy quickly, not those who invested.[/QUOTE]

There's an important distinction between your paraphrase and what I originally said: I said that a sale would discount for the wrong "audience", not "customer". We're always happy to provide discounts for our customers! But a time-based sale would reach a whole different audience than our customers, which would be disrespectful of the investment our customers have made in our products.

With a time-based sale, there's no doubt that some of the purchases would certainly come from our loyal customers—which would be great! But we wouldn't reach most of our customers in time, since we don't have a good communication channel in place for reaching them.

Meanwhile, we would pull in a lot (and I mean a [I]lot![/I]) of new customers who didn't think our app was worth buying at $20—but who are happy to buy in at $10. We're suddenly selling our app to a whole different audience of more casual customers, all of whom got a much better deal than the serious customers who invested at $20.

Now we've done two unfair things to our $20 customers: a bunch of them missed the sale, so they're disappointed about that. And a bunch of them are kicking themselves for ever investing $20 in our app since a whole bunch of new people are getting it now for just $10.

But it doesn't end there: we've also now diluted our loyal customers' level of support because our support team's is now supporting a whole bunch of new, more casual customers who invested less money. This is a double-whammy: people who invest less money are actually more likely to need support because they're less likely to invest time learning our app—and because they've invested less money, we have fewer support resources available to spend supporting them.

In the end, time-based sales simply reward people who find out about the sale in time. If we knew we had a communication channel that would reach the bulk of our customers in time for them to take advantage of the sale, this might be more practical. Of if we had some way to block out people who weren't our existing customers during the sale period, that would also help dramatically. But without those options, I'm afraid the sale would reach some of the right audience—like those reading this message—but a lot of the wrong audience.

Again, I'm sorry that my brief note on Twitter wasn't more clear about [I]why[/I] we think time-based sales are a bad idea. I hope this explanation helps clear that up!

That was a really thoughtful response, Ken. Thanks.

It's bloody bullshit is what it is. Sorry but I am offended right now that I have spent $40 equivalent, plus $60 equivalent, plus $120 equivalent when it could have been $30, $45 and $90 or whatever discount you could have offered. I have paid a huge (for me) sum of money to OmniGroup over the years, helped them with their beta-testing, proselytised their apps and the company at every opportunity and you are trying to tell me that [B]I would have been offended[/B] if you had offered me a time-limited discount? WTF, that is completely insane and frankly insulting.

Yes, I might have missed the sale and I would have been extremely annoyed at myself if I did, but that doesn't mean I would blame OmniGroup. It's the reality of the App Store that this is the only way that companies are able to offer discounts to their current users. It is what they DO. It's what users of the App Store [I]know to expect[/I] - there could be a time when an app is discounted, particularly if it is a version upgrade. If you don't know that then it's tough for sure, but come on, there are no other ways to discount upgrades for your current users. None.

I am sick of OmniGroup making excuses for their complete intransigence on this. Either be up front and state outright in the app description that you will never ever offer any discounts or don't pretend to hum and hah about it. First you were waiting to see what Apple would do. Now you are just insulting our intelligence with a disgusting attempt at an excuse.

And for everyone saying I don't have to upgrade. That is a lie. I may not need to upgrade right now, but I have to upgrade at some point - I absolutely depend on these apps for my work. OmniGroup have already pulled their version 1 apps. They are no longer developing them. I can't rely on version 1 working with future updates of iOS. A point release to iOS7 could easily break them and I have no guarantee that OmniGroup will fix them or fix them quickly enough if that happened. I am forced to upgrade.

And for people saying that OmniFocus isn't worth the $20 to me. Of course it is, but I have already paid that. That is the whole point. I have already paid $20. I am not getting an entirely new app with version 2, I am getting a point upgrade to the one I already have. It doesn't have twice the features. It doesn't have twice the functionality. It didn't have to be twice the cost to me and everyone else who already owns it.

You know, whenever the subject of OF pricing comes up here, one of the faithful inevitably responds with a statement suggesting that someone shouldn’t purchase the software if their data isn’t important enough to merit the purchase price. I know that’s an easy way to dismiss an argument, but it's honestly more than a little tiresome ... in part because it comes across as condescending, whether it’s meant that way or not.

But now, the problem is that those statements aren’t even accurate anymore. For current OF users, the software has suddenly changed from being a $20 program to being a $40 one -- without giving the buyer that information beforehand -- and that’s very unfortunate for someone who’s only been using the program for a few weeks or months. Since few people will want to entrust their task management data to an app that won’t even receive bugfixes, most of us are realistically stuck with paying twice -- Omni has effectively painted us into a corner. It’s a great concept for a cash-cow product, I suppose, but it really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. At the very least, I think Omni ethically owes its 1.x user base a guaranteed period of bugfix upgrades.

It should also be something of a warning to anyone who’s considering purchasing any other iOS apps from Omni. Given what just happened with the iPhone app, no one in their right mind should buy the current version of the iPad app now, because it’s pretty much guaranteed that over the next few months the $40 app is really going to cost you $80.

And honestly, from looking at the promotional video it’s really difficult for me to even consider this a 2.0 app. There are lots of bright colors and lots of white space, but little in the way of new functionality, and the new landing page for the app is unintuitive and poorly designed. It's a rush job. I’m not sure at this point whether I’ll buy it, or get up the initiative to move on ... but either way, Omni has definitely lost my advocacy and my goodwill. I know it’s hard to quantify that sort of thing, which is probably why Omni decided to ignore the topic, but I can say with some certainty that in my case that lost advocacy is worth considerably more than the $20 they may or may not get from me.

[QUOTE=JKT;127267]It's bloody bullshit is what it is. Sorry but I am offended right now that I have spent $40 equivalent, plus $60 equivalent, plus $120 equivalent when it could have been $30, $45 and $90 or whatever discount you could have offered.[/QUOTE]

I think you misunderstand: our current prices are already discounted because of the compromise we've had to make about not being able to offer upgrade discounts. Your total investment for these two releases would have been the same $40, but we probably would be charging $30 for the initial purchase and $10 for an upgrade.

[QUOTE=pitamakan;127268]Omni has effectively painted us into a corner. It’s a great concept for a cash-cow product, I suppose, but it really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. At the very least, I think Omni ethically owes its 1.x user base a guaranteed period of bugfix upgrades.[/QUOTE]

Please understand that we do still support our 1.x customers and will do what we can to make sure their existing investment is preserved.

But please understand that this situation is caused by the current limitations in the App Store, not by some policy decision on our part. Customers who purchased Logic Pro 9 from Apple before the upgrade to Logic Pro X are in the same boat, for example: those who paid $199 two months ago still have to pay $199 again today, and appear to be left without any channel for bug fixes.

For purchases from our own online store, we've always offered upgrade pricing, long-term bug fixes (e.g. providing updates to OmniGraffle 4 long after we shipped OmniGraffle 5), and so on. And we're trying to provide what we can through the App Store as well. (It remains to be seen whether Apple will approve an update to an app we no longer sell—but we do plan to try.)

Ken,

Thank you for the response, and I apologize for the grousing. I honestly don't enjoy typing out sentiments like this, especially since I've really admired Omni for a long time ... and it pains me that I don't anymore.

And I agree that Apple's policy on paid upgrades is frustrating -- but I don't think it's something to legitimately hide behind when explaining this decision. This is in part because Apple's phasing out of paid upgrades has been a two-part process: they eliminated the discount, but they also greatly reduced the price point for entry. Logic Pro, for example, used to be a $1000 program, IIRC. The price of entry for Omni's apps hasn't been correspondingly reduced, at least on OS X ... and given the pricing tiers you have I honestly question how heavily the "no paid upgrades" topic likely factored into the initial pricing decisions for the iOS apps.

The other issue is that from what I've seen and read, this really doesn't seem to be a "major" upgrade, at all. Almost no new features have been added and some in fact have been lost ... mostly, it's just a visual rearrangement to make the app more congruent with the visuals in iOS 7. I know you wanted to take advantage of the attention generated by the iOS 7 launch date, but if you'd given the app a little more time and actually provided it with some substantiative new functionality, I think many OF users would feel a little less ripped off today.

I'm a fairly heavy iOS user, and over the last few days I think I've received roughly 50 app upgrades, for both free and paid apps, pretty much all to provide iOS 7 compatibility. Omni is the only one, though, that's asking me to pay again. While I know of one or two other companies that have taken advantage of iOS 7 to try to get people to repurchase apps, they're definitely the outliers ... and even the other one that I'm aware of are offering a discounted initial price, which makes Omni even more of an outlier.

[QUOTE=pitamakan;127275]Logic Pro, for example, used to be a $1000 program, IIRC. The price of entry for Omni's apps hasn't been correspondingly reduced, at least on OS X ...[/QUOTE]

We continue to offer upgrade discounts on OS X, unlike Apple, and the bulk of our customers are eligible for them (since most of our sales happen on our own online store, not the Mac App Store) so our Mac prices have remained steady.

However, we have definitely taken this into account when pricing our iOS apps. When we originally introduced OmniFocus for iPhone, we surveyed the landscape of similar apps and found that most serious apps on the space cost $60-$80—so we came in at $20, an incredible deal. When we introduced our iPad apps, we discounted 50% for reduced functionality from the desktop, and another 50% because we were unable to preserve investments by offering upgrade discounts.

The problem with that strategy has been that lowering our prices doesn't actually help all our customers feel like their investments are preserved: it widens our audience to include people who don't think the app is worth the higher price we would have charged, and who now want upgrade pricing based on the lower price. I think Apple has found this to be the case with their Pro apps as well: yes, their $999 apps are now available for $199, but people who bought at $199 still expect an upgrade discount when the next version comes along.

[QUOTE]The other issue is that from what I've seen and read, this really doesn't seem to be a "major" upgrade, at all.[/QUOTE]

It may not be a major upgrade from your perspective, but it certainly is a major upgrade in terms of usability and performance and providing a modern architecture for future work.

Now, I recognize that that may not be enough for people who already have OmniFocus 1. After all, we put a lot of work into OmniFocus 1 over its five year run, adding perspectives, maps, time and place alerts, Siri, Forecast, and more—it was and is a very mature product.

So if the improvements in version 2 aren't worth $20 to you, then there's no need to buy version 2 right now! We continue to support customers who are using OmniFocus 1, even on iOS 7, and it will be our job to continue to make version 2 better and better until (hopefully!) there's enough value there to make it worthwhile for everyone to upgrade.

I'm just one customer, and not a wealthy one at that, but from my point of view the concerns over price obscure the far greater importance of improved functionality: for example, more easily adding sub-tasks, for those of us that pine for a capable outliner for the iphone. $20 is a pittance when one considers the value gained every single hour of the working day from such capability. Bear in mind that some OF competitors are charging a monthly or annual fee.

[QUOTE=Ken Case;127288]When we originally introduced OmniFocus for iPhone, we surveyed the landscape of similar apps and found that most serious apps on the space cost $60-$80—so we came in at $20, an incredible deal.[/QUOTE]

Respectfully, I'd be very interested to know what those similar apps are, since to my knowledge the OF products are the most expensive mainstream GTD apps in the iOS space.

[QUOTE=Ken Case;127288]When we introduced our iPad apps, we discounted 50% for reduced functionality from the desktop, and another 50% because we were unable to preserve investments by offering upgrade discounts.
[/QUOTE]

OF for Mac is $80, with the potential for upgrade discounts; OF for iPad is $40, with no discount potential.

Regardless, best wishes.

[QUOTE=pitamakan;127290]Respectfully, I'd be very interested to know what those similar apps are, since to my knowledge the OF products are the most expensive mainstream GTD apps in the iOS space.[/QUOTE]

OmniFocus for iPhone was launched at the beginning of the iPhone's App Store in 2008, so it wasn't other iPhone apps we were looking at. Instead, we were surveying what was available for BlackBerry, Palm, and (I think? it's been a while) the Windows Mobile markets. There were quite a few, but all of the quality apps were between $50 and $100 and none of them were as capable as OmniFocus.

[QUOTE]OF for Mac is $80, with the potential for upgrade discounts; OF for iPad is $40, with no discount potential.[/QUOTE]

I was specifically thinking of our most expensive apps, OmniGraffle and OmniPlan.

OmniFocus for iPad was (and is) actually better in many ways than our current Mac offering with its addition of Forecast and Review modes, as well as much clearer navigation—though it was also more limited in others (no scriptable navigation), so on the relative value scale it seemed roughly equivalent. (To this day, many people tell me that they prefer the iPad app to the Mac app.) Its 50% discount relative to the Mac app's price is largely because of this problem of not being able to offer discounts to existing customers through the App Store. (This discounting problem isn't just limited to upgrade discounts: we would also love to offer bundle discounts to people who have purchased the other editions.)

[QUOTE=Ken Case;127274]Please understand that we do still support our 1.x customers and will do what we can to make sure their existing investment is preserved.

But please understand that this situation is caused by the current limitations in the App Store, not by some policy decision on our part. Customers who purchased Logic Pro 9 from Apple before the upgrade to Logic Pro X are in the same boat, for example: those who paid $199 two months ago still have to pay $199 again today, and appear to be left without any channel for bug fixes.

For purchases from our own online store, we've always offered upgrade pricing, long-term bug fixes (e.g. providing updates to OmniGraffle 4 long after we shipped OmniGraffle 5), and so on. And we're trying to provide what we can through the App Store as well. (It remains to be seen whether Apple will approve an update to an app we no longer sell—but we do plan to try.)[/QUOTE]

Thank you Ken! I finally registered on the forums mainly to raise my concern on your [URL="http://www.omnigroup.com/blog/omnis-plans-for-ios7"]blog post[/URL], where you stated (emphasis mine, both the bold and the italics):

[QUOTE]The old versions of OmniFocus for iPhone, OmniOutliner for iPad, and OmniPlan for iPad will be removed from the App Store. If you’re not planning on updating to iOS 7 or need a version of any of these apps that runs on iOS 6 for any reason, you’ll want to grab them before the new releases ship. However, [B]please note that we don’t plan on doing [I]any[/I] more work on these iOS 6 apps[/B]: our iPhone and iPad development efforts are now fully focused on iOS 7.[/QUOTE]

And then in the PS (again emphasis mine):

[QUOTE]We [B]expect[/B] that you should all be able to continue to use our version 1 apps on iOS 7.[/QUOTE]

To me that sounded like you wouldn't even [I]attempt[/I] at solving any compatibility problems for version 1, and that is not what I expected of a serious company like the OmniGroup. It made me really consider looking into alternatives - where the risk of purchasing abandonware might be equally high or even higher, but where prices would be low enough for me to accept that risk.

Now what you say here is something totally different, and it is just the thing I needed to hear to again be confident in investing more money in your great products. Thank you!

I just checked and it turns out that I bought OmniFocus for iPhone back in 2008, for £12, back when it was just "OmniFocus". I won't be getting this upgrade.

That statement, about wanting to pay for perceived value? It cuts both ways. I realised I've not used very much in the past few years, certainly not enough to warrant buying it again. I've mainly used it purely when I don't have access to my desktop or ipad and want to jot something down. These days I just use notes to make notes, and then sort them later.

Had the upgrade cost been nominal, I would have bought it without hesitation. Perhaps the changes to the interface would be enough to convert me back to actually using it on a regular basis.

As it is, I see the whole Omnifocus product line as really just one system (I am even tempted to think of it as just Omni Sync Server) that I pay for convenience (or platform taxes, if you will). I've spread the cost of each of these over several years, which I've been perfectly happy to do. But now I'm faced with a decision: do I inevitably buy the whole suite again in a short period at a rather hefty expense, or do I buy it piecemeal, maybe just the Mac version for example, and thus miss out on the best feature: having my data synced across my devices?

I suspect instead what will now happen is I'll start to gravitate towards the third option: considering alternatives. Because OmniFocus has a LOT of features. Do I really need them all, I wonder. Maybe I can get by with just a hierarchical structure of notes. Maybe the free, web/desktop/iphone/ipad-based notes.app and reminders.app will actually be "good enough".

I can live without OF2 for iPhone, really I can. I wouldn't have considered any of this an issue if you hadn't completely and suddenly pulled the plug on version 1. What happens then next time I restore my iPhone from iCloud? What happens when version 7.x of iOS completely breaks it, and I'm held hostage to just buying version 2. Maybe none of these things will happen, but there's a bitter taste in my mouth.

Right now, it seems like I have until you kill OF for iPad to decide what my options with this product are.

Before you want to plunk down $20, check out the Asian Efficiency walkthrough of OmniFocus 2 for iPhone on YouTube

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBcRJ_vkkgU[/url]


In regards to pricing, Mac blogger David Sparks had this to say:

[url]http://macsparky.com/blog/2013/9/omnifocus-for-iphone-20[/url]

[quote]I’m pretty sure I paid $25 for OmniFocus for iPhone version 1. That was five years ago. Over the past five years I’ve used the heck out of this app (which ended up costing me $5 per year to own). For the price of one cup of coffee per year I’m more productive and kicking ass with this application. Moreover, the Omni Group did not hold back on updates to version 1. During those 5 years, syncing got really great, OmniFocus became location aware, the Omni Group added an innovative forecasting feature, OmniFocus learned to talk to Siri, the Omni Group built an entire back-end syncing engine for my data, and OmniFocus obtained the ability to add tasks via email. The list goes on. I believe over the next five years, the Omni Group will be just as productive and add more useful features to version 2 that will become equally essential to me.

To those complaining about the price I’d ask you to look back and honestly answer the question of whether the Omni Group hasn’t already given you your money’s worth with version 1. If we, as discriminating users, want to continue to have excellent software, we are going to have to pay excellent developers so they can buy shoes, beer, and Pop Tarts. If you’re really hung up on this, think of it as an extended software license to get you through several more years.[/quote]

Moving on swiftly
 

I'm becoming more and more reticent to invest in the app stores. Convenient they may be, but the cost is becoming too much. When apps where $10 and under this was fine as a one off payment, but now with increased prices it is way too expensive.

As much as I have liked OF and OO over the years the release cycle has been much too slow. Yes they help me to be more productive, but no more than other apps that are much cheaper. In the end facing £13.99 to upgrade on my iPhone with the ipad version not yet available nor the updated version for Mac, then another £20.99 for OO on the iPad (but not available on the iphone) it all seems too messy and expensive for me.

In the end I decided to stick my money into Evernote. They have a much faster update cycle, moving into GTD and able to cover both OF and OO general functionality. The real benefit is that my support documents and my todo's are in the same place. I've also decided that Omni's lack of at least giving an option for tags, not really changing anything in the database architecture from OF 1 makes me wonder why I should upgrade. Yes the Ui's nice, but that's no the most important thing for me.

I'm sorry, but omni is too slow with too little. Oh and should I mention that Evernote's apps are FREE on every PLATFORM and available on most devices. Ken seems to want people to invest, but with so many alternatives and the cross platform mix increasing for people, I certainly would not invest well over £100 for omni's products.

Leaving Omni
 

I wrote to complain about the lack of upgrade pricing [i.e. Lowering the cost for an initial period of time as a thanks to longtime customers, like me] and got a boiler plate response, so the Omni folk knew in advance that their pricing would be problematic. All told, if I were to buy each Omni app upgrade for all their products on my Mac and mobile devices, the cost will be prohibitive for me. I've been a devoted customer since the old OmniWeb days and was an early adopter of OF, buying it while still in beta. I just cannot continue to pay full price each time they update their products.

Sadly I am leaving Omni after more than a dozen years.

[QUOTE=wintergreen;127298]Had the upgrade cost been nominal, I would have bought it without hesitation. … But now I'm faced with a decision: do I inevitably buy the whole suite again in a short period at a rather hefty expense, or do I buy it piecemeal, maybe just the Mac version for example, and thus miss out on the best feature: having my data synced across my devices?[/QUOTE]

You know that we do offer substantial upgrade discounts on our own store, right?

[QUOTE]I wouldn't have considered any of this an issue if you hadn't completely and suddenly pulled the plug on version 1. What happens then next time I restore my iPhone from iCloud?[/QUOTE]

You can restore OmniFocus 1 from your Purchased Apps list in the App Store.

[QUOTE]What happens when version 7.x of iOS completely breaks it, and I'm held hostage to just buying version 2.[/QUOTE]

We're not selling version 1 anymore, but we're certainly still supporting it. In fact, we're working on some iOS 7 compatibility fixes for version 1 right now which we plan to submit to the App Store once they're ready.

It's not our intent to force people into upgrading to version 2 because version 1 stopped working for them; it's our job to make version 2 better and better until everyone using version 1 feels it's worth upgrading.

[QUOTE=prider;127305]I just cannot continue to pay full price each time they update their products.[/QUOTE]

Our most expensive apps are all on the Mac, where we're still able to offer substantial discounts for upgrading customers. We'd love to have the same flexibility in the App Store!

[QUOTE=Ken Case;127312]It's not our intent to force people into upgrading to version 2 because version 1 stopped working for them; it's our job to make version 2 better and better until everyone using version 1 feels it's worth upgrading.[/QUOTE]

So, why the complains? It's beyond my comprehension.

And regarding the pricing, good companies (not only for their owners but also to their customers) don't lower the price, but increase the quality. And that's I expect to happen with OF2 for iPhone.

Version 2 is an outstanding upgrade and -- for me -- a delightful surprise. Frankly, the $20 barely seems to cover the value I receive on a daily basis from OmniSync Server and OmniPresence.

If you cannot find a way to lever an extra $5 or $10 of value out of OmniFocus every year then, by all means, reassess your personal use case.

This software can change your career for the better. Has Microsoft Project ever done that? Now all I need is for my iPad version of OmniFocus to work with iOS7. Support Ninjas where are you?

UI alignment
 

Personally I am looking forward to upgrading to iOS7 at which point I will upgrade to OF2.

However the issue I have (as someone who still finds aspects of OF confusing as opposed to my other GTD system which is Things) is we now have three generations of user interface to deal with..

- The Mac interface which is tired and confusing (in my personal opinion only)
- The iPad interface which I always found easier to use (a step up from the original Mac interface)
and now
- the iPhone interface which has leapfrogged all the others...

Showing the OF system to my new colleagues in my new job was like showing them two different apps (and now three if you include OF2). It's almost like having three different apps (albeit driven by the same underlying data).

So what I would like to know is - when are the interfaces finally going to be brought into line?

Cheers

P.S. for those wondering why I bother with two GTD systems - I try and keep work and home life *totally* separated and the simpler nature of Things lends itself (to my mind) more easily to my personal stuff which OF helps me to manage the many project threads I need to cope with at work. Maybe I should use contexts to help make the separation but so far, for me, running two systems works...

One way I've mentally handled the lack of discounts in the App Stores is to be on the look out for 15-20% off iTunes cards.

Using the Logic 9 to Logic X example, if you buy $200 worth of iTunes cards at 20% off, then the "upgrade" pricing to Logic X is just $160.

$160 for Logic X vs $400-600 for Pro Tools 11 is a huge difference - to make one comparison. Every version of Pro Tools is at least $400 of upgrade costs.

Or the "upgrade pricing" for OF1 to OF2 for iPhone is $14 instead of $20. I have yet to see _anything_ on the App Store for $14 that is the caliber of OF iPhone.

Yes, you have to be patient. Yes, it's not ideal nor considerably cheaper. But it's how I've learned to reconcile my desire for "the new" and the desire for "the deal".


I still don't see why it's impossible to have a mailing list for time based deals. I know they have my e-mail anyway. That seems to take care of the customers not finding out about the time window.

There appears to be only a week of notice that OF iPhone 1 was no longer going to get support. That's fine as long as it works, but the blog made it sound like "it should/will probably work okay". I've been using it since it first came out so it was worth it, but if it starts breaking I'll become annoyed.


Brandon

Folks complaining, its $20 get over it, (is this even real life...)


[QUOTE=bradg;127325]Version 2 is an outstanding upgrade and -- for me -- a delightful surprise. Frankly, the $20 barely seems to cover the value I receive on a daily basis from OmniSync Server and OmniPresence.

If you cannot find a way to lever an extra $5 or $10 of value out of OmniFocus every year then, by all means, reassess your personal use case.

This software can change your career for the better. Has Microsoft Project ever done that? Now all I need is for my iPad version of OmniFocus to work with iOS7. Support Ninjas where are you?[/QUOTE]

Well Said..! agree %100

It sucks Omnigroup has to justify making money. Just make a judgement call if it's worth it to you.

I'm personally not upgrading right now due to the cost, but I don't feel they owe me the app for free or need bend over backwards to give me a discount when the App Store doesn't even offer that option at all.

Now if you'll excuse me, Im going to go complain to BMW for how much they charge for their cars.

it's certainly not $20
 

Omni sell great products and that's reflected in the price. However, folks who blithely ascertain it's $10 or $20 more really don't calculate the cost of ownership, or I should say use.

For OF to be effective in a workflow it must be available on all devices you use. At the moment the cost is £13.99 just for the iphone. The iPad version will be more expensive as will the mac version.

The unfortunate thing for omni is that they're releasing a whole lot of upgrades at the same time. I use a number of omni's products and OO is £20.99 just for the ipad more for the Mac, OP is £39.99 for the ipad. This is not a small amount. I appreciate they are different products, but in a recession folks are budgeting more tightly and when all these costs come at once you are bound to re-evaluate the cost.

In re-evaluating I'm simply not continuing to use Omni products as the cost in comparison to similar apps is simply too high and above what I want to spend.

This is no dig at omni, but if folks don't tell them why they not buying the new products that's no help to them either and it does seem that quite a few people are not buying the new versions due to cost.

[QUOTE=svsmailus;127304]'ve also decided that Omni's lack of at least giving an option for tags, not really changing anything in the database architecture from OF 1 makes me wonder why I should upgrade. Yes the Ui's nice, but that's no the most important thing for me.[/QUOTE]

This is the biggest gap in OF 2 for me, the base of OF Has not changed from what I've seen.

Whilst I don't doubt the amount of time that the fine people at Omni have put into OF2 for Mac and IPhone (and I've no doubt about the iPad app as well) a lack of progress in the back end and enabling smarter ways for users to work is why I was disappointed with OF2 for Mac, and am unsurprised that OF2 for iPhone has followed the same path

I'm caught at a crossroads. I've invested the equivalent of $180 in all three versions of Omnifocus 1, and I've had my money's worth out of the iPad version, but not the other two apps. I had pinned my hopes that Omni would improve the data model in OF2 (Omni never made this promise) and enable me to work in a smarter way in the future, and it appears that for all of the hard work and improvements in Omnifocus 2, as someone who is primarily an iPad user, these features add little to the way I work with no promise of any back end improvements. Because of this I cannot see that I will invest in new versions.

I'll continue to use OF1 for the time being, but I'll be investigating new options for the future. This disappoints me hugely because Omni are a good company which provides quality software and support at reasonable prices. Unfortunately in my opinion, Omni are not adapting to the changing landscape of task and project management in 2013 and still using an outdated model from GTD based in the early 1990s.

I don't have problems with Omni charging the same price for a new version, I don't think that the new versions of Omnifocus introduce enough new value to justify a bump from 1.x to 2.x

[QUOTE=svsmailus;127304]...
In the end I decided to stick my money into Evernote. ...[/QUOTE]

I've been using Evernote lately just because of the cross platform functionality but I find it ugly and messy and does not facilitate my productivity; ubiquity has it's cost.

Still a heavy user of OF on all my Apple devices. The price of this increadibly useful app is exceeded only by all the money I've wasted on a small pile of cheaper apps that spent a week on my phone.

[QUOTE=JKT;127267]It's bloody bullshit is what it is. Sorry but I am offended right now that I have spent $40 equivalent, plus $60 equivalent, plus $120 equivalent when it could have been $30, $45 and $90 or whatever discount you could have offered. I have paid a huge (for me) sum of money to OmniGroup over the years, helped them with their beta-testing, proselytised their apps and the company at every opportunity and you are trying to tell me that [B]I would have been offended[/B] if you had offered me a time-limited discount? WTF, that is completely insane and frankly insulting.

Yes, I might have missed the sale and I would have been extremely annoyed at myself if I did, but that doesn't mean I would blame OmniGroup. It's the reality of the App Store that this is the only way that companies are able to offer discounts to their current users. It is what they DO. It's what users of the App Store [I]know to expect[/I] - there could be a time when an app is discounted, particularly if it is a version upgrade. If you don't know that then it's tough for sure, but come on, there are no other ways to discount upgrades for your current users. None.

I am sick of OmniGroup making excuses for their complete intransigence on this. Either be up front and state outright in the app description that you will never ever offer any discounts or don't pretend to hum and hah about it. First you were waiting to see what Apple would do. Now you are just insulting our intelligence with a disgusting attempt at an excuse.

And for everyone saying I don't have to upgrade. That is a lie. I may not need to upgrade right now, but I have to upgrade at some point - I absolutely depend on these apps for my work. OmniGroup have already pulled their version 1 apps. They are no longer developing them. I can't rely on version 1 working with future updates of iOS. A point release to iOS7 could easily break them and I have no guarantee that OmniGroup will fix them or fix them quickly enough if that happened. I am forced to upgrade.

And for people saying that OmniFocus isn't worth the $20 to me. Of course it is, but I have already paid that. That is the whole point. I have already paid $20. I am not getting an entirely new app with version 2, I am getting a point upgrade to the one I already have. It doesn't have twice the features. It doesn't have twice the functionality. It didn't have to be twice the cost to me and everyone else who already owns it.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure if you understand. There is LITERALLY NO WAY that Omni Group can offer you a discount on your upgrade, without dropping the price for EVERY HUMAN ON THE PLANET. And that's not really good business sense if their business is built on getting $20 from people who purchase the new version. They have employees, they have costs, Ken has been doing this for a while, they probably know what fits their revenue model.

This is the first paid upgrade for OmniFocus for iPhone in FIVE YEARS. Sheesh.

[QUOTE=JKT;127267]It's bloody bullshit is what it is. Sorry but I am offended right now that I have spent $40 equivalent, plus $60 equivalent, plus $120 equivalent when it could have been $30, $45 and $90 or whatever discount you could have offered. I have paid a huge (for me) sum of money to OmniGroup over the years, helped them with their beta-testing, proselytised their apps and the company at every opportunity and you are trying to tell me that [B]I would have been offended[/B] if you had offered me a time-limited discount? WTF, that is completely insane and frankly insulting.[/QUOTE]

Holy jesus... are you doing those things because your a patron saint or because omnifocus is a life saver. You (I, we, us) benefit from it every single day. Tremendously.

How many minutes have you saved this month alone thanks to a piece of software? In fact, it's not thanks to the app, it is thanks to the deep amount of [b]thought and effort[/b] that has clearly gone into it.

[QUOTE]And for everyone saying I don't have to upgrade. That is a lie. I may not need to upgrade right now, but I have to upgrade at some point - I absolutely depend on these apps for my work. [/QUOTE]

If you step back from this comment, it is all the more reason that whatever price point they've set, is in fact a perfectly reasonable and fair price point.

Also, in case you havent read this, and are still complaining....

[url]http://www.fastcolabs.com/3017187/open-company/is-it-time-for-apple-to-update-app-store-pricing-rules[/url]

Hm, I'm paying 27$ for real time traffic integration with my navigation app. Per year. In-app premium.

When I look at other apps, maybe the OmniGroup should consider another model:

- OmniFocus for iPhone for free ($2,99)
- basic version with free projects

in-app premium options:
- $9,99 OmniSync-Server integration per year
- $2,99 for contexts
- $2,99 location based contexts
- $2,99 Siri integration
- $1,99 calendar integration


Just joking here. I'll take the 'OmniOption' everytime instead and pay $19,99 each 2- or 3- or 5-year interval and benefit from all the features they supply with the app and with their free updates for years.

I can understand the feelings of some users, who have very recently purchased v1. I would also not be happy about it, but being an OmniGroup customer (using Focus, Graffle, Outliner) for some years, I know, that it will pay back in time and this rather sooner than later. At least for me it has. Not only so with OmniFocus almost instantly and multiple times over the years: I was thinking about purchasing OmniOutliner3 for Mac and then Ken came around and said, everyone buying OO3 now will get a free update to v4. This was May 2011 and instantly I bought my license then. When in some years to come I will have to pay for OmniOutliner5 (2016?, 2017?), man, I'll surely feel totally ripped-off.

I think it's also that bad there is no update price, but it can't do anything OmniGroup.
I have also been wondering whether cheaper offering the apps for some time, especially since I bought OmniFocus for the iPad and iPhone.

Somewhat nicer, I think the new design but the colorful font colors bother me, they would have to let her.

I still have not bought OmniFocus 2 and will wait until the iPad version out and is all in German.

Greeting Jörg

[QUOTE=Ken Case;127312]You know that we do offer substantial upgrade discounts on our own store, right?



You can restore OmniFocus 1 from your Purchased Apps list in the App Store.



We're not selling version 1 anymore, but we're certainly still supporting it. In fact, we're working on some iOS 7 compatibility fixes for version 1 right now which we plan to submit to the App Store once they're ready.

It's not our intent to force people into upgrading to version 2 because version 1 stopped working for them; it's our job to make version 2 better and better until everyone using version 1 feels it's worth upgrading.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for taking the time to reply, and thanks for clarifying, that doesn't seem as bad as I'd believed.

[QUOTE=JKT;127267]And for people saying that OmniFocus isn't worth the $20 to me. Of course it is, but I have already paid that. That is the whole point. I have already paid $20. I am not getting an entirely new app with version 2, I am getting a point upgrade to the one I already have. It doesn't have twice the features. It doesn't have twice the functionality. It didn't have to be twice the cost to me and everyone else who already owns it.[/QUOTE]

And when you buy a new car are you getting twice the car vs. the one you have, or is it in essence a point upgrade? There are new features, a new design, but for the most part it serves the same purpose as your current car, getting you from point A to point B.

The example doesn't quite work because you can sell your current car or trade it in which isn't true in the software space. I personally feel that The Omni Group has considered that in their pricing however and that $20 is a very reasonable fee for the upgrade. Yes it's the same price I originally paid, but the original release still works on IOS7. I'm not being held hostage to get this release. Rather, I can make a reasoned decision as to if it benefits me. If not, I can stay with OF1.

I already purchased OF2 to thank and encourage OG keep improving the app. However, I think OG did not listen to customer carefully this time. Just count how many customers asked for a UI change, and compare with how many customer asked for new functions. You mentioned you have a list requested features. Where does UI enhancement position on the list?


[QUOTE=Ken Case;127265]I'm sorry I didn't explain that comment better on twitter! I assume you're referring to [URL="https://twitter.com/kcase/status/378229513479401472"]this tweet of mine[/URL]:



There's an important distinction between your paraphrase and what I originally said: I said that a sale would discount for the wrong "audience", not "customer". We're always happy to provide discounts for our customers! But a time-based sale would reach a whole different audience than our customers, which would be disrespectful of the investment our customers have made in our products.

With a time-based sale, there's no doubt that some of the purchases would certainly come from our loyal customers—which would be great! But we wouldn't reach most of our customers in time, since we don't have a good communication channel in place for reaching them.

Meanwhile, we would pull in a lot (and I mean a [I]lot![/I]) of new customers who didn't think our app was worth buying at $20—but who are happy to buy in at $10. We're suddenly selling our app to a whole different audience of more casual customers, all of whom got a much better deal than the serious customers who invested at $20.

Now we've done two unfair things to our $20 customers: a bunch of them missed the sale, so they're disappointed about that. And a bunch of them are kicking themselves for ever investing $20 in our app since a whole bunch of new people are getting it now for just $10.

But it doesn't end there: we've also now diluted our loyal customers' level of support because our support team's is now supporting a whole bunch of new, more casual customers who invested less money. This is a double-whammy: people who invest less money are actually more likely to need support because they're less likely to invest time learning our app—and because they've invested less money, we have fewer support resources available to spend supporting them.

In the end, time-based sales simply reward people who find out about the sale in time. If we knew we had a communication channel that would reach the bulk of our customers in time for them to take advantage of the sale, this might be more practical. Of if we had some way to block out people who weren't our existing customers during the sale period, that would also help dramatically. But without those options, I'm afraid the sale would reach some of the right audience—like those reading this message—but a lot of the wrong audience.

Again, I'm sorry that my brief note on Twitter wasn't more clear about [I]why[/I] we think time-based sales are a bad idea. I hope this explanation helps clear that up![/QUOTE]

Lots of folks have been complaining that the user interface in OF1 for the Mac and iPhone needed work. This is a subtle change in the workflow. This is just the first of what will be many revisions that will be adding to the foundation of what OF2 2.0.1 is right now.

So OG did listen to the customers. They oversaw a UI change. Functionality will be added in over time. OF1 for iPhone has had many updates and changes over the past few years. It's not like this is all we're gonna get. More additions will be added including a major data structure change in the future.

Relax... It ain't the end of OF2 for iPhone development. It's just the beginning.

I understand new features will come, however I prefer OG can put adding function features at a higher priority especially in the current pace of development. Will customer be more happy when they see project template, flag support, task duration in OF2 release? I am not sure about other users, but at least they are on my top wish list. Btw, if there is a Web interface as many have asked, I don't mind paying double of the current price.

[QUOTE=wilsonng;127423]Lots of folks have been complaining that the user interface in OF1 for the Mac and iPhone needed work. This is a subtle change in the workflow. This is just the first of what will be many revisions that will be adding to the foundation of what OF2 2.0.1 is right now.

So OG did listen to the customers. They oversaw a UI change. Functionality will be added in over time. OF1 for iPhone has had many updates and changes over the past few years. It's not like this is all we're gonna get. More additions will be added including a major data structure change in the future.

Relax... It ain't the end of OF2 for iPhone development. It's just the beginning.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=cheekyjeremy;127255]Hi Everyone.
1. When editing a note, within an action within a project, I am finding it almost impossible to get the curser to go to where I want it to. Imagine you have a listing like below:

John -
Steve -
Caroline -
Bill -
Chris -

If (after the fact) I want to add information after each hyphen, it is almost impossible (not entirely) but very difficult to the get the curser to go to the end of each line.

I've been using the OF 1 on my iPhone for years, and had no problem until the current release. I pulled up the older OF to compare, and have zero problems with the curser.
J[/QUOTE]

I'd like to second that one. I didn't need the hyphens to make it happen it just sometimes refuses to put the insertion point where I want at the end of a line.

And those flagged/due circles could perhaps be a tad thinner ...

Love the rest though. Thanks Omni.

Value, not cost.
 

How long has OF for iPhone been out now? Is it about 4 years, I forget?

Maybe the original cost the same as V2 now - in the UK that's £14.

£14.

A couple of pizzas? 2 CDs. 4 pints of beer?

How do people whine about Omni and the prices they charge and keep a straight face? I've had OF for iPhone since shortly after its introduction - 4 years then - and have used it many, many times every single day since I first installed it.

£14

Did you regret buying those pizzas?

Recording
 

Can record and take notes at the same time? On OF 1 this cannot be done.

[QUOTE=KiltedGreen;127459]I'd like to second that one. I didn't need the hyphens to make it happen it just sometimes refuses to put the insertion point where I want at the end of a line.
...[/QUOTE]

IMO, this illustrates a fault of Apple to provide universally better methods to position the cursor in text fields on their iOSX devices. Anyone use Awesome Note on the iPad? It adds arrows <- -> just above the keyboard input. They allow you to scroll directly by single letters at a time. How many times I have wished that such input method was universal!

[QUOTE=CatOne;127362]I'm not sure if you understand. There is LITERALLY NO WAY that Omni Group can offer you a discount on your upgrade, without dropping the price for EVERY HUMAN ON THE PLANET. And that's not really good business sense if their business is built on getting $20 from people who purchase the new version. They have employees, they have costs, Ken has been doing this for a while, they probably know what fits their revenue model.

This is the first paid upgrade for OmniFocus for iPhone in FIVE YEARS. Sheesh.[/QUOTE]
Interestingly, another GTD app I recently purchased, as a newer version, offered me a reduced price because I already had its predecessor installed on my device. It was delivered as an in-app process ( a brilliant concept ). Basically, you downloaded the app as a trial (limited to 30 days), with an in-app purchase option to upgrade to the full version. On the surface, it was very well done. In the future, it might be possible for Omni Group to offer OmniFocus as a trial ( try before you buy ), and then, if you want to, opt for an in-app purchase to have the pro-version activated. At the activation time, Omni Group can check for the ownership of the previous version and apply a discount. This would give loyal customers a thank you ( via a little discount ).

[QUOTE=laughingcow;127472]Basically, you downloaded the app as a trial (limited to 30 days), with an in-app purchase option to upgrade to the full version. On the surface, it was very well done. In the future, it might be possible for Omni Group to offer OmniFocus as a trial ( try before you buy ), and then, if you want to, opt for an in-app purchase to have the pro-version activated. At the activation time, Omni Group can check for the ownership of the previous version and apply a discount. This would give loyal customers a thank you ( via a little discount ).[/QUOTE]

The App Store doesn't allow trial versions. Your app may have slipped through the vetting process, but they seem to be breaking the rules.

Clear ($1 for iPhone), launched in 2012 disappeared with the new iOS 7 version but has be reinstated as a supported app (will get iOS 7 update) and the new app ($5 for iPhone, iPad) initially sporting the same name is now called Clear+

I am not been recommending that OmniG follow suit, but interesting that the company so quickly changed their plans to let the iPhone only version expire.

[QUOTE=brentajones;127487]The App Store doesn't allow trial versions. Your app may have slipped through the vetting process, but they seem to be breaking the rules.[/QUOTE]
Sorry for the misunderstanding. The app as a whole isn't a trial. It remains available. However, its key features are subject to a time-limited trial. An in-app purchase switches the features from trial to pro.

If you are interested, the app implementing the above behaviour is called MLO 2.

Also, there are numerous apps available in the App Store designed to present ads. They often provide an in-app purchase to disable ads.

Value
 

On the whole I am a huge believer in the value of the Omnigroup software tools. If you can't get the full value from the apps then you're either not using them to their full capability or you simply don't need them.

As for the upgrade on the iPhone, as long as version 1 gets critical defects fixed I don't see why anyone has a really legitimate issue. Either buy the upgrade or don't.

Having said all that, I have upgraded and I'm a little underwhelmed. It looks nice, but I'm not convinced it is a step forward in usability. The home screen itself feels a little awkward and is too prescriptive. I only use flagged in tandem with a context and I never use nearby. Couple that with the blank space next to inbox and you have a lot of screen space wasted for me.

Given how different visually it is to OF for iPad there is a strong case for prioritising iPad over Mac.

Taking look and feel out of the equation am I missing something if I stick with of1 for now?

[QUOTE=Ken Case;127312]You can restore OmniFocus 1 from your Purchased Apps list in the App Store.[/QUOTE]

I still think that leaving it on the store would have been nicer. I know there is a list of purchased apps somewhere, but when I want to re-install an old app I usually just search for its name, and now that won't work anymore. (That's exactly what happened to me with Clear two days ago, before I was even aware of the PR drama surrounding their update.)

Of course this all wouldn't be a problem if Apple had support for paid updates… :(

This is all very sad. I still like OmniFocus and will probably continue to use it for as long as it works, but I already spend more money on it than really makes sense to me. I'm speaking from a personal, subjective viewpoint here, but I kind of assumed that with this much money for a task planner, a certain longevity would be included in the price.
Of course, version 1 has been out for a while, so a lot of people have gotten a lot of use out of it, but it's also still available in the App Store, so people still buy it for 70 Euros today. I can promise you that none of them would feel insulted by some special upgrade pricing when version 2 comes around.

For clarification:
I think it wouldn't be as bad if Omni just came out and said "Out version 1s have been out for X years, and after this long a time and this much developement we want, need and/or simply deserve to ask for full price again." That would still leave the people who came to it later on out in the rain, but that's bad luck.
But instead what I see is OmniOutliner for iPad, which cost me 12 Euros and which now costs 27 Euros to upgrade, and the explanation is "we don't want to offend anyone with lower prices".
Sorry, doesn't work for me.

I bought but OmniFocus 2 now, although I had only first hesitated due to buying new and full-price.

But I'm happy now that I've made and find OmniFocus 2 perfect.
There's still something bothers me some, but I think this is adjusted still.

1. Somehow the background sync not working properly.
2. I'd like, if OmniFocus 2 would soon be in German.

And in particular I am looking forward to OmniFocus 2 for iPad.
I hope it won't be long now.

I have Omnifocus2 for a few days now and no longer miss the design of Omnifocus1.

Greeting Jörg

[QUOTE=Flex;127557]For clarification:
I think it wouldn't be as bad if Omni just came out and said "Out version 1s have been out for X years, and after this long a time and this much developement we want, need and/or simply deserve to ask for full price again." That would still leave the people who came to it later on out in the rain, but that's bad luck.
But instead what I see is OmniOutliner for iPad, which cost me 12 Euros and which now costs 27 Euros to upgrade, and the explanation is "we don't want to offend anyone with lower prices".
Sorry, doesn't work for me.[/QUOTE]


Omniplan2 is also around 10 euros more expensive and there I wait also.
Have not yet properly incorporated into Omniplan1 me, because it has been translated into German only recently.

You should always think, if a software is completely rewritten, is this time and work and of which the manufacturer wants to live.

Problem with the Apple, they have built no update function, because then it would be easier for all software vendors.

Greeting Jörg

I don't like change...
 

Bought OF2 for the iPhone. Don't like it. The pastely icons, skinny-hipster jeans font that is hard to read against a white background, the enormous circles on the right side. Ugh. Really? This is the future of iOS design? I think it's all veneer. Haven't decided if I'm going back to the old version.

As for the whiners who are experiencing "internet outrage" over a $20 application. Hey, geniuses. You're using a phone that probably costs you $1200/year to operate and using a $20 application that organizes a large part of your life THAT you probably won't have to pay for again in the next 3 years.

I'm sure the folks at your local homeless shelter are equally outraged.

Ken, please stop apologizing for the price. And now please get me a copy of OmniFocus 2.0 for the Mac. I've got work to do....

[QUOTE=dwc;127599]Bought OF2 for the iPhone. Don't like it. The pastely icons, skinny-hipster jeans font that is hard to read against a white background, the enormous circles on the right side. Ugh. Really? This is the future of iOS design? I think it's all veneer. Haven't decided if I'm going back to the old version.

As for the whiners who are experiencing "internet outrage" over a $20 application. Hey, geniuses. You're using a phone that probably costs you $1200/year to operate and using a $20 application that organizes a large part of your life THAT you probably won't have to pay for again in the next 3 years.

I'm sure the folks at your local homeless shelter are equally outraged.

Ken, please stop apologizing for the price. And now please get me a copy of OmniFocus 2.0 for the Mac. I've got work to do....[/QUOTE]

I went back to OF1 for iPhone today and there's where I'll stay for the rest of the year. For me, OmniFocus and GTD are about list management: boring, structured list management. I find the old version to be more legible and less shiny. I fully support Omnigroup swinging for the fences with OF2 for iPhone. It just doesn't work for me. It will probably be an improvement for others.

[QUOTE=dwc;127611]... the enormous circles on the right side. Ugh. Really? This is the future of iOS design? [/QUOTE]

Unlikely I think – those just seem to express a residual resistance to iOS deference – defiantly noisy re-claiming of the screen as decorative canvas, complete with an artistic signature :-)

I think that these (and, for that matter, the oversaturated fills of even Apple's iOS7 icons) will become less strident and intrusive with time ...

It costs how much???!!!!!
 

[QUOTE=dwc;127599]As for the whiners who are experiencing "internet outrage" over a $20 application. Hey, geniuses. You're using a phone that probably costs you $1200/year to operate and using a $20 application that organizes a large part of your life THAT you probably won't have to pay for again in the next 3 years.

I'm sure the folks at your local homeless shelter are equally outraged.[/QUOTE]

Nail hit firmly on the head, dwc.

I really, really feel people need to get some perspective here. I have each of the three OF versions and have bought OF 2 for iPhone. I don't begrudge that expenditure at all and I'm certainly not rolling around in piles of money here.

I was a software developer for 26 years and I'm now writing apps of my own and when I read some mean, mean comments on the App Store I often want to scream and cry. How are developers meant to get paid? Is there any other product in modern life that seems so indispensable (a mobile phone and/or a computer) for which people expect to shell out so little. Ideally, for nothing. Very expensive phones for 'nothing' on the lowest contracts. Software for nothing and perpetual free upgrades too if you can.

Averaged priced £250,000 houses, £15,000 cars, expensive holidays, meals out at £40-£50 a pop. A round of drinks in a pub costs some youngsters (who clearly have more credit than sense!) about £60 and it's gone in less than an hour.

As I said in an earlier post, OF 2 for iPhone is £14. Step back from your iPhone/iPod for just a moment and look at what else you might pay for in a [B]single week[/B], costing at least £14, and all you now have to show for it is a larger waistline or a debit in your bank statement and some (hopefully good) memories. Seriously.

Why do people apply standards to software pricing that would sound utterly ludicrous in any other area of their life? Think about what you spend regularly without moaning at your "provider". Your electricity bill last week? The cost of a single tank of fuel? One train journey? A takeaway? That £8 DVD you just bought and may watch once more before it gathers dust along with the other 60 or more sitting in your lounge before going on eBay or to the charity shop. The £50 pair of jeans you've had for 2 years but just threw out because they're a bit worn and have a hole in the knee?

Yet here is a piece of software, one you probably use [B]a lot[/B], many, many times a day for years, crafted over months by dozens of experienced and skilled people on a living US wage (not put together in 6 minutes in an mostly automated factory in Vietnam by people hardly paid enough on which to live) and then supported by Ninjas and Omni developers for free for years [B]and[/B] you get the OmniSync server thrown in too.

£14.

Come on people. Raise eyes from the App Store, look around the world. Get real. And as dwc? said, please stop apologising for pricing Ken.

I absolutely agree with this sentiment, and have erred towards buying family packs from Omni even when there was only one user in the house, simply because the tools have been useful to me, and I want them to be maintained and renewed.

I suspect that the new sensitivity of demand to price, however, is at least in part a result of the oversupply of mobile apps by developers with low overheads (compounded, no doubt by downward pressure on incomes). People have got used to paying sub-economic amounts, or even to finding free alternatives.

Not an easy environment to operate in, and not made easier by Apple's upgrade pricing inflexibilities.

I guess App Store customers are sending a clear message:
[url]http://mashable.com/2013/10/08/state-of-paid-apps/[/url]

[QUOTE=laughingcow;127866]I guess App Store customers are sending a clear message:
[url]http://mashable.com/2013/10/08/state-of-paid-apps/[/url][/QUOTE]

I don't know, though. If you look at the top revenue apps, like 98% of them are games, where freemium (sorry, "free to play") rules.

I'm not sure it is really applicable for other classes of apps as much.

Though yeah OmniGroup could always just make OmniFocus for iOS free, and then charge $0.99 for completing a task, and maybe $49.95 for "complete a task" 100-pack ;-)