The Best and Worst of OmniFu
 

We talk a lot about the merits of individual features, but what you guys think of OmniFocus as a whole? What is the best feature? What is your biggest boondoggle or usability issue?

Best thing: I love how easy OF is to jump into, or integrate into a preexisting system. I tried iGTD and was frustrated very quickly by how much information it shoved in my face, the focus was always on the individual task selected, and not the list of tasks available. OF is only as involved as I want to be, and it's easy to ignore any attribute I'm not using (time estimates, i.e.) even when it's active.

Worst thing: The way searching and the viewbar interact is incredibly frustrating. If I search for a task that I [I]know[/I] is in OF, but it doesn't show up, I panic. A minute later, I realize it's because the view bar is filtering out the task I'm looking for. Then I go back to look at something else, this time via context or project, but now [B]everything[/B] is gone, and panic again. And another minute later I realize the search is still active. This is a constant trip-up for me, whenever I use the search function.

i don't like how (for many configurations that i use) the filter selections [I]look[/I] like they are column headers for the data in the project/task window (on the right) but aren't. the reason for this is obvious: these drop-down buttons show their current selected value, and for most of them, the allowed values are the same as the field names of the data being displayed.

on a related note, i also don't like how the project/task window (on the right) is tabular data, but does not display any column headers and does not provide the intuitive tabular data management features (like click on the top of a column to sort by the column, resize columns, drag columns around to reorder, etc.)

proposed solutions: a) put some more distinct visual "break" between the filter buttons and the project/task list window or move the filter buttons to their own inspector pane or something. b) make the task/project list look/act more like a normal list (with a header row).

I agree with GeekLady on both counts!

dduff617, I had never had the confusion you described, but then I realized that's because I always have a Group By setting turned on in the View Bar. With a group-by setting, the group heading serves as the visual break you're looking for. I agree that with an ungrouped display some sort of stronger visual break would be helpful. I like not having regular column headings like in a typical tabular display since the interface is quieter that way.

I'm with GeekLady on the thing I like best about OF. It is very low-key to get in to. You can brainstorm projects with ease, and maintain/review everything just like you would in an outliner. Even before switching to OF, I had taken to using the outliner method for keeping track of my lists. It is so much more intuitive to me than the strict project vs. task dichotomy you see in most GTD implementations. Working in OF is pretty transparent, ignoring the alpha stage rough edges, of course. Imagining the finished product where everything is as slick as OO---it is going to be very easy to work in OF on a daily basis.

My biggest gripe is something I've already posted: I'm sick of filter dancing every time I want to add a task to a holding project.

I like:
• parallel and consecutive projects
• nice interface, easy to learn
• selecting a context shows also task in sub-contexts
• nesting of tasks

I dislike:
• no priorities
• filtering is not obvious (need visual clues)
• not enough options to customize interface (column with, position etc.)
• no visual clue for recurring items
• items ticked off disappear immediately
• difference between folders-projects-tasks

There are probably a few more things, but that's what I can think of momentarily.

Favorite feature:
Focus. I didn't really get this feature at first when it was shown in Ethan's screencast and it took me a while to start using it. But once I started really using it, I found that it made a huge difference when dealing with a large amount of projects and tasks. It's simple, but really useful and easy to get used to. That's elegant in my opinion. I'm really looking forward to the perspectives feature getting fleshed out too. I think the features which are designed to alter your view of your action list are some of the strongest in OF.

Second favorite feature:
No priorities. Really though, I think the lack of some features is also a great strength and the lack of priority is one the strongest.

Least favorite "flaw?":
No red highlight (or any visual cue) for overdue tasks. Not that I ever *cough* miss any due dates, but in the off chance that I might miss one someday, it would be nice to have it stick out more.

As far as search goes, maybe OF should show search results in a new window.

Best feature: I have to second Focus. The only downside to that is that I've created a bunch of über project folders. It makes it easy to focus on the "School" folder or whatever, but it makes it tedious in project mode. In context mode, it's perfect.

Most annoying thing: filter ribbon. I love filtering as much as the next guy, but I find it too tedious to use my mouse to select items from multiple filter choices. Sometimes I like to see just the next actions within contexts. Then I'd like to see all remaining tasks by due date. To do this, I have to contantly manipulate two filter lists. I suppose perspectives might help, but I have yet to look into it.

Also, I agree that there should be [I]some[/I] indication of an overdue task.

OmniFu (you're quite right, that's what it should have been called, GeekLady) is already, in its alpha stage, one of my five indispensable applications (the others are Mail, OmniWeb, NetNewsWire and Pages).

Best feature: The GUI as a whole. I can't look at any of the competitors for more than five minutes a day. OF, on the other hand, looks very good.

Worst gripe: Subtasks. They should be subprojects, really, and behave as such. Next worst: I want to be able to jump to the inspector windowlet using a keyboard shortcut.

[QUOTE=HiramNetherlands]OmniFu (you're quite right, that's what it should have been called, GeekLady)[/QUOTE]
Oh, I can't bring myself to call it OmniFocus, it's just too many syllables and life is short.

I have been using it full time for a month or so and really getting used to it so I will throw some thoughts up here:

Best feature: Quick entry box. I can easily start with a task, create a new project and context and just move ahead not having to figure out anything else.

Least favorite: Not a feature, but when trying to add tasks to an existing project right now I have to hit return and return again. There is a lag. It should be much quicker to enter things in, filters or no.

BZ

Best:
- How easily OmniFu (the pre-alpha name) adapts to various users.

- the interface lets one get stuff into OF quickly, without going through a lot of steps. In a rush, I can just pick a project, enter a task, pop-up a context and type "today" -- all done. Other GTD programs I've tried make me go through two steps 1) type the task name into an Inbox; B) go back and fill out a complex form. I almost never use Quick Entry, and rarely use the InBox -- see the item above.

Worst:
- Review process seems half-implemented

- Human interface isn't finished

- Lack of internal documentation. Yes, I know this is an alpha, and it lacks help files, but that's not quite what I mean. KGTD had sections where the user could set up trigger lists, templates, review processes (daily, weekly, monthly, on out). Ethan had populated these with some stuff to get us started. I'd like to see something like this in OF — I need those trigger lists to clear my mind. Yeah, I could set up my own, but I need the seed ideas.

--Liz

Best Thing: Just downloaded OF SneakyPeak - Oh My! Thanks Ken.
Worst Thing: No notes/metadata capability (or rather, none that I've found yet) for folders. Just a discipline thing really, but it would help clarify the what, where, when and why...

Liz, the GTD incompletion triggers are on the 43folders wiki (down for maintenance at the moment, unfortunately): why not copy from there into wherever you find them useful (Yojimbo, text file, whatever)?

[QUOTE=al_f]Liz, the GTD incompletion triggers are on the 43folders wiki (down for maintenance at the moment, unfortunately): why not copy from there into wherever you find them useful (Yojimbo, text file, whatever)?[/QUOTE]

They're available from the [URL="http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:CrIvazSPyPIJ:wiki.43folders.com/index.php/Trigger_list+GTD+incompletion+triggers+site:wiki.43folders.com&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1"]Google cache[/URL] of the 43folders wiki.

These are few of my favorite (and unfavorite things).

-------Best Features:
• Keyboard navigation! It's is so easy to create items in OF!
• Multiple selection - Being able to select multiple items and change attributes
• Groupings - I love the way OF groups items. Very simple and effective.
• Focus - The focus aspect is very handy.
• Quick Key Inbox - Yes.. I know you can use QS or LB. But I love using the OF quick key inbox addition. Then I don't have to remember the order of things for the QS entry.
• Clean interface
• Cool icons in the application
• Full Applescript support! - to the hilt!
• The Inbox Section - I love having an inbox in the application!
• Review dates - this is such a cool feature that I never thought of. By using review dates, I can review projects throughout the week, which almost eliminates the weekly review.

-------Worse Bugs -
• The view action item in project / context view is probably one of the most used commands for me. But it's a bit broken right now.

• Not storing completed Date when an project is completed. Without this... I have no reporting. If the completed date was stored, then I could at least group items by completed date.

• Completed decay time: I like having the item crossed out. But then I need to hit the clean up button. Would be cool to have them slowly disappear, so I can see the actions die a slow painful death... mumuthehahahahahah... ahem.

------- Things I really want:
I small repeating icon next to the completed checkbox. This would let me know that an item is repeating, so I don't have to double check to make sure it will come back. It would also allow me to create tasks like:
spend 30 min researching blahblah on the internet

When I get to the end of the 30 min, I click on the check box, and the item repeats tomorrow.

When I have completed this item... and don't need to research. Then I can click on the repeating icon next to the completed checkbox, which changes to item to non-repeating, and I can complete the item.

This solves the problem of spending 2 hours on an item researching it, still not having an answer, and not being able to complete anything for the day. :o

-------Things I haven't tested out enough yet:
iCal syncronization
eMail integration using Curt's applescripts

Praise: I love having the simple ability to see only the next action on each project, quickly and easily, if I want to. A couple of months ago I downloaded every GTD app I could find, and I was appalled to find that only Thinking Rock seemed to have the ability to do this (and not nearly as simply as in OF) (and in that heinous TR interface).

Gripe: The default time in the date picker is noon. When I set dates for actions, 99 percent of the time, I want that to take effect first thing in the morning.

A fork off the question's path, but the best thing about OF so far has been that I've let go of a long battle I had deciding on Palm Desktop (+ Palm PDA) or FileMaker (+ FileMaker Mobile) for task managment (I'd been using both in schizoprenic parallel for years). Both had their pro's and con's, but OF's simplicity caused me to move to it exclusively for tasks, and am now having fun effectively reviewing and GTD'ing my actions. I hope 10.5 brings notes round trip to the iPhone, then I can be fully computer<-->mobile with tasks/notes/contacts/calendar.

Bob

[QUOTE=omnibob]A fork off the question's path, but the best thing about OF so far has been that I've let go of a long battle I had deciding on Palm Desktop (+ Palm PDA) or FileMaker (+ FileMaker Mobile) for task managment (I'd been using both in schizoprenic parallel for years). Both had their pro's and con's, but OF's simplicity caused me to move to it exclusively for tasks, and am now having fun effectively reviewing and GTD'ing my actions. I hope 10.5 brings notes round trip to the iPhone, then I can be fully computer<-->mobile with tasks/notes/contacts/calendar.

Bob[/QUOTE]

I'll drink to most of that!

[QUOTE=al_f]Liz, the GTD incompletion triggers are on the 43folders wiki (down for maintenance at the moment, unfortunately): why not copy from there into wherever you find them useful (Yojimbo, text file, whatever)?[/QUOTE]

Oh, I have them, in Outliner format from Kinkless.

But it would be nice to, say during Weekly Review, open a text page within OF itself with the trigger list on it. [My laptop needs more RAM, the fewer programs I open, the happier it is.]

Likewise, it would be nice for OF to have a sample Weekly Review project built-in — one we could easily customize or delete, but ready for use.

In the Great Scheme of Things, this is a nit, and I know some enterprising AppleScript author could set these up easily, but GeekLady did ask for what we didn't like about the current OmniFu ...

--Liz

The View-bar
 

[QUOTE=dduff617]i don't like how (for many configurations that i use) the filter selections [I]look[/I] like they are column headers for the data in the project/task window (on the right) but aren't. the reason for this is obvious: these drop-down buttons show their current selected value, and for most of them, the allowed values are the same as the field names of the data being displayed.

on a related note, i also don't like how the project/task window (on the right) is tabular data, but does not display any column headers and does not provide the intuitive tabular data management features (like click on the top of a column to sort by the column, resize columns, drag columns around to reorder, etc.)

proposed solutions: a) put some more distinct visual "break" between the filter buttons and the project/task list window or move the filter buttons to their own inspector pane or something. b) make the task/project list look/act more like a normal list (with a header row).[/QUOTE]

I second this.
[B]Forget about the View-bar at the top of the window.
[/B]
Case:
The visual association to the columns underneath is too strong and as the items of the view-bar
have nothing to do with the contents of the columns this is most irritating.
(Through our visual experience with tables we are led to look for a contextual connection which doesn't exist in this case - irritating - cognitional dischord!)

Possible solution:
Upon clicking on "View" open a new inspector window (or sidebar).
Arrange the filter popups vertically and include a button to quickly change between: "show all" for all filter items and "return to selection" to undo "show all".
Change the View-icon slightly if any filtering is currently active to give a visual clue.

Possible additional opportunity:
Now you are free to insert a bar at the top of the columns for sorting each column (ascending and descending). You could have this sorting-bar toggle between visible/invisible just as the proposed View-Inspector.

[QUOTE=Leonardo]cognitional dischord[/QUOTE]

Do you mean [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance"]cognitive dissonance[/URL]?

[QUOTE=Leonardo]
Case:
The visual association to the columns underneath is too strong and as the items of the view-bar have nothing to do with the contents of the columns this is most irritating.[/QUOTE]

A different solution might be to move them down to the bottom of the window. No more column-header-association.

See, I don't get this type of problem because the filter bar items are different widths than the columns of task data. I like having them up top, but I think they need to be more distinctive, and highlight which filters are active better.

I've had my mitts on OmniFu for 24 hours now, having previously used iGTD for as my management tool. I must admit that I did have some initial misgivings as I had got used to iGTD's very handy drop dock interface as well as the equally good menu bar access link. I found this great from the point of view of being able to move emails into my inbox without even thinking about it (and so out of my mind).

I do like the OmniFu quick entry box but it just requires that extra bit of work (usually copy and pasting) to get tasks in to my view but as extra development takes place, I'm sure this operation will get much more seamless. For the time being I'll reserve judgement on 'Clean Up'.

Hitting return twice when throwing together a list, can be a pain and I probably haven't yet configured my folders, projects and sub projects in the best way as yet (including the best way to name them so I get something meaningful in Context view), but other than this, it really is a gorgeous looking and intuitive product.

The 'Focus' and 'Inspect' options really are winners. Just using the former for one day whilst I did some web development just enabled me to feel that much more, well, focussed!! I also like the options available to me in inspect and I'm sure the Review tool will prove a boon in the weeks to come.

Despite the wait to test, I didn't think I'd be so easily swayed but I'll certainly be sticking with it from now on.

I am apparently the only person here who thinks the view bar doesn't look even remotely like column headers (they look like buttons and they don't even line up with the columns of data below them and they're a different color with a different type style) and I am apparently the only one who thought the name "filter bar" was just fine especially since everyone keeps calling them filters anyway.

[QUOTE=MEP]I am apparently the only person here who thinks the view bar doesn't look even remotely like column headers (they look like buttons and they don't even line up with the columns of data below them and they're a different color with a different type style) and I am apparently the only one who thought the name "filter bar" was just fine especially since everyone keeps calling them filters anyway.[/QUOTE]

Nope. I'm with you too. But I was using OmniFocus when the only columns were action, project/context (depending on view), and estimated time (I think it was there...); it might be more confusing for more recent arrivals. Still, it seems that a quick look would convey that the filters and columns are not directly related.

[QUOTE=brianogilvie]Still, it seems that a quick look would convey that the filters and columns are not directly related.[/QUOTE]

Well, it seems to me part of the problem here is (a) the lack of actual column headers and (b) the presence of the "Unsorted" drop-down on the filter bar.

In fact, the mixing of filtering with sorting/grouping seems ill-advised in general.

While Spotlight does mix the two in its show-all-hits window (Group by/Sort Within Group by/When/Where -- when & where are filters, group/sort are not), there's a specific reason for that: different groups have different layouts. In particular, images aren't shown in columns, so sorting by column header doesn't really work.

On the other hand, I can't really think where else you would put a grouping option, other than with the filtering options -- you probably don't want to hide the grouping functionality behind a modified click of a column header.

But the Spotlight window does provide an alternative UI for this kind of filtering, one that doesn't look like a column header, and one that doesn't require as many clicks. (I shudder to hear myself pointing to Spotlight for any sort of UI recommendation, but there you are.)

One possible problem with having column headers comes to mind though: the group (and project) headers span the columns, potentially making it a bit harder to follow the columns. But I don't think it would be so bad, especially in light of the advantages of column headers.

So two alternative ideas:

1) Keep the view bar, but remove the sorting button and add column headers below the view bar.

2) Get rid of the view bar and add an inspector/drawer/Spotlight-like-side-panel for filtering. And add column headers.

[QUOTE=Weasel]I dislike:
...
• difference between folders-projects-tasks
[/QUOTE]

I have to second this, largely because it seems at odds with GTD, and I'm having trouble wrapping my head around how OF intends this to work.

Strictly speaking (according to GTD), if it's more than one step, it should be a project. So what's the idea behind tasks/subtasks? Why a different abstraction?

(I also miss the color-coding of overdue tasks.)

I'd post some bests, but I'm still wrestling with some disorientation trying to move my tasks from iGTD. The UI in OF is certainly prettier!

[QUOTE=pjc]
So two alternative ideas:

1) Keep the view bar, but remove the sorting button and add column headers below the view bar.

2) Get rid of the view bar and add an inspector/drawer/Spotlight-like-side-panel for filtering. And add column headers.[/QUOTE]

I'm not clear on your objection to the Sorting button in the view bar. Is the problem not being able to do multi-column or reversed sorting?

I could live with column headers, but have no need for them--seems like wasted screen space and noise to me. But please don't take away the view bar. It's a beautifully dense and feature packed UI element. I'm tweaking the view settings all the time. The spotlight sidebar wastes a ridiculous amount of screen real estate. Well over half the spotlight sidebar is unused whitespace.

Personally, I really like column headings. I would like to see a column heading for context, project, start, due, estimated time, etc. While I can remember what each column stands for, I would rather not have to actively think about it. It would be easier for me if the headings were there all the time and not simply when I hover over the line with my mouse.

However, I certainly understand the viewpoint of those that dont like it.

I propose that at interface option be added to the preferences pane. 'Display column headers.' Nice, simple checkbox should do the trick.

.Mac
 

A very important feature for me is syncing with my .mac account. I want to use it at home and work. This is huge and iGTD does it.

[QUOTE=bepmail]A very important feature for me is syncing with my .mac account. I want to use it at home and work. This is huge and iGTD does it.[/QUOTE]


Seconded. I've not actually got my hands on OF yet but this would be essential for me moving from desktop to laptop frequently.

Likes:
Easy to get into and easy to shuffle tasks and projects around. Very intuitive.

Dislikes:
1) I agree that the Filter/View ribbon at the top of the page doesn't have the right UI, it feels like it should be column headings.
2) There are a lot of little behaviors that make it appear as if OmniFocus is losing tasks or projects, or can cause a user to have to enter things twice; with a program that is devoted to capturing, I need to have faith that it's getting everything. Examples include:
* The search bar should clear itself when you change focus or switch views, so people don't end up unintentionally hiding stuff.
* Using the Add Action (Ctrl-Cmd-N) function in Project View doesn't do anything when you do not have a Project selected.
* If you hit the Delete key one time too many in the Quick Entry box, it deletes the new task and there's no way to get it back without closing and reopening the Quick Entry box.
3) The more I think about it, the more I dislike the new Quick Entry function that allows you to skip the Inbox and drop Tasks directly into a Context or Project, and hope the original behavior is the default. The capturing stage and the processing stage are not the same thing, and you can bog yourself down if you find yourself wrestling with what context or project a quick entry needs to be in.

I sent this in via the feedback link, but figured I might as well post it here too in case it helps to spur some discussion. Note: I did make some changes to this body of text since sending it in.

------------------------------------------------

I would really appreciate an option in the preferences to enable column headings to stay visible. I understand that there has been some debate about this in the past on the OmniFocus forums. To me, having a checkbox to enable visibility at all times vs. visibility when hovering would be an optimal solution.

It would be nice to have column headings for 'context' when in project view and 'project' when in context view. Naturally, I am able to remember what the entries are, just as I am able to remember that the due date is a due date and the start date is a start date. However, it is easier for my mind to have the visual indicator of a column heading. It is one less step to think about since when I am thinking 'what is this?' the answer is right in front of me. It is more than a mere aesthetic change in my eyes.

Other features I would like to see include:

-More iCal sync options. i.e. sync every X minutes. sync when iCal is brought into focus, etc

-Adjust the quick entry panel to allow for multiple quick entries. Sometimes I think through tasks as I type and it would be helpful to have the quick entry panel allow for multiple entries. Granted, this may be somewhat against the 'quick' part of the quick entry, but it certainly is 'easy entry.' This would be an awesome feature.

-A new view button to show tasks to complete 'Today, This Week, Next Week'. Basically, you could select the scope of your calendar to view in OmniFocus. I can sort of achieve this with the filters or by using iCal, but then I’d have to go back and forth from iCal to OmniFocus and that is a nuisance. A quick 'calendar button' next to the project and content views would be priceless.

-Is there a way to get rid of that save box so that it doesn’t pop up every time I make a change in OmniFocus? Or just make it less obtrusive. It is nice to know when it the document is being saved, but if we put it at the bottom of the left hand panel as the classic blue os x progress bar or something similar, it wouldn’t be so (to quote Futurama) ‘In your face interface.’

I'll try to send more feedback as I continue using your product. Law school starts soon and OmniFocus will make the perfect companion for my Franklin planner. Also, in future posts I will try not to ramble so much.

[QUOTE=strongmace]-Adjust the quick entry panel to allow for multiple quick entries. Sometimes I think through tasks as I type and it would be helpful to have the quick entry panel allow for multiple entries. Granted, this may be somewhat against the 'quick' part of the quick entry, but it certainly is 'easy entry.' This would be an awesome feature.[/QUOTE]

I think shift-return will allow you to enter a second (third, etc) quick entry.

[QUOTE=bepmail]A very important feature for me is syncing with my .mac account. I want to use it at home and work.[/QUOTE]

Of course! I want to use OmniFocus at home and at work as well, so I synchronize my OmniFocus document between my computers right now (using the same techniques as I use to synchronize other documents between my computers).

I agree that it would be great to add automatic synchronization (and even more interesting, automatic merging when you've made changes on multiple computers without synchronizing between each change), but I'm not convinced that .Mac is the best way to do that. (It's easy to implement simple synchronization with .Mac, but it's not easy to make sure that the synchronizing process won't ever lose or corrupt any data, especially when you have as complicated a schema as OmniFocus does.)

Our file format is designed with this goal in mind (it's one of the reasons we write changes as individual XML transactions), but our first goal is to get OmniFocus working as a reliable single-document system (before trying to make it a reliable distributed-document system, which is a research problem of its own).

(It's probably also worth pointing out that we currently do synchronize with your .Mac task list as well as providing a web interface for remote access. But I know that's not the same thing as running OmniFocus on multiple computers, which is why I started off noting that I do exactly that right now.)

[QUOTE=jelmore]1) I agree that the Filter/View ribbon at the top of the page doesn't have the right UI, it feels like it should be column headings.[/QUOTE]

We don't have column headings because the columns vary from row to row. (Inbox items have an extra "project" column; projects don't have a "context" column.)

[QUOTE]* The search bar should clear itself when you change focus or switch views, so people don't end up unintentionally hiding stuff.[/QUOTE]

I don't think we should clear it automatically (forcing you to reenter your search string each time you look somewhere else for the same thing), but it should be more obvious that it's happening. We have some ideas about drawing more attention to the search field when it's active which should help this.

[QUOTE]* Using the Add Action (Ctrl-Cmd-N) function in Project View doesn't do anything when you do not have a Project selected.[/QUOTE]

We'll fix this.

[QUOTE]* If you hit the Delete key one time too many in the Quick Entry box, it deletes the new task and there's no way to get it back without closing and reopening the Quick Entry box.[/QUOTE]

We're considering making the Delete key stick within the current focused field, but I thought I should also point out that Undo (Command-Z) works everywhere, including in Quick Entry.

[QUOTE]3) The more I think about it, the more I dislike the new Quick Entry function that allows you to skip the Inbox and drop Tasks directly into a Context or Project, and hope the original behavior is the default. The capturing stage and the processing stage are not the same thing, and you can bog yourself down if you find yourself wrestling with what context or project a quick entry needs to be in.[/QUOTE]

Even with the new default behavior, items still go to your inbox by default; they only go straight to a project or context if you stop and assign one to them. If you don't want to think about that yet (and I often don't), you can just skip those fields.

Hope this helps!

[QUOTE=Ken Case]We don't have column headings because the columns vary from row to row. (Inbox items have an extra "project" column; projects don't have a "context" column.)[/QUOTE]

I should have been more clear; I was saying that the ribbon looks like it should be column headings at first glance, not that I wanted column headings (for the reasons you cite).

[QUOTE=Ken Case][QUOTE=jelmore]* The search bar should clear itself when you change focus or switch views, so people don't end up unintentionally hiding stuff.[/QUOTE]

I don't think we should clear it automatically (forcing you to reenter your search string each time you look somewhere else for the same thing), but it should be more obvious that it's happening. We have some ideas about drawing more attention to the search field when it's active which should help this.[/QUOTE]

I'll be interested to see what you come up with.

[QUOTE=Ken Case]We're considering making the Delete key stick within the current focused field, but I thought I should also point out that Undo (Command-Z) works everywhere, including in Quick Entry.[/QUOTE]

I think, as a psuedo-dialog box, that Delete should not kill that field, but it didn't occur to me to try Undo. Awesome!

[QUOTE=Ken Case]Even with the new default behavior, items still go to your inbox by default; they only go straight to a project or context if you stop and assign one to them. If you don't want to think about that yet (and I often don't), you can just skip those fields.[/QUOTE]

As long as I can set the behavior to always go to Inbox, I'll be happy.

[QUOTE=Ken Case]Hope this helps![/QUOTE]

It does! Now if you guys can fix the bug where tasks with no project do not show up in Context View that I mentioned elsewhere, I'll be happy.

[QUOTE=curt.clifton]I'm not clear on your objection to the Sorting button in the view bar. Is the problem not being able to do multi-column or reversed sorting?[/QUOTE]

That's part of the problem. But the other part is that the current view bar overloads non-column-header functionality (i.e. filtering) with column-header functionality (i.e. sorting), which contributes to the visual and cognitive similarity to column headers -- which is what most people (that are complaining about the view bar) are complaining about.

[QUOTE=curt.clifton]I could live with column headers, but have no need for them--seems like wasted screen space and noise to me.[/QUOTE]

They're usually the proper place to put sorting, as that's the standard UI place to put it. They also allow for reverse sorting, sorting by multiple columns (primary/secondary), etc.

Ken Case mentioned that the reason they haven't used column headers so far is that OF doesn't "the columns vary from row to row. (Inbox items have an extra "project" column; projects don't have a "context" column.)".

This does present an interesting challenge. The Inbox only needs the "Project" column so that you can directly enter the project of an item in the box. The projects obviously don't need a project column. So what column header would you draw? Also, the current sorting drop-down lists criteria that aren't among the visible columns. So relegating sorting to column headers loses some functionality -- so I may concede that column headers aren't really practical. (And it's hard to change from sorted to unsorted using column headers.)

[QUOTE]But please don't take away the view bar. It's a beautifully dense and feature packed UI element.[/QUOTE]

And that's really its greatest flaw (aside from its overwhelming resemblance to column headers). While density can wonderful for conveying information, it should generally be avoided for pointer-based (i.e. mouse, trackpad) manipulation. In a densely-packed clickable UI, your targets are too small, it's too easy to miss and hit another element, etc. It also shares the negative of menus -- namely that you can't see the available options (or their target boxes) until you click. Combine that with the small target size, and tweaking a number of the filter settings requires a startling amount of dexterity.

Time how long it takes you to tweak your filter settings. Now compare that to the direct manipulation UI that Spotlight provides. I can adjust all four settings with 4 fast clicks -- made faster because I can see my next target and start moving again as soon as I click. With the menus, your mind has to pause after the first click, find the target, then you can start moving to the target. You can look ahead for the next drop-down, but again, you'll have to wait for it to draw before you can look for and move toward your next target. That's a lot of latency.

Again, I apologize for pointing to Spotlight for any discussion of good UI, but it does at least get this aspect right. (On the other hand, it puts the scrollbar in the wrong place -- the content scrolls, but the sidebar doesn't. But for fun, try making your Spotlight window very short -- then the scrollbar does control the sidebar, but at a different rate than the results pane!)

Yes, the sidebar "wastes" a lot of screen real estate, but it conveys all the filtering you information you need at once, and very cleanly. But that's why I'd suggest making it a hidable UI element. And besides, there's more horizontal screen real estate than there is vertical -- you can more readily spare the pixels on the side than you can above or below.

The major obstacles I see to using a Spotlight-like sidebar are:

1) If you simply need to see what the current state of filtering is, it takes up a lot of space -- in contrast, the view bar is very succinct. And if you're going to have a view bar, it's generally a good idea to allow direct manipulation of it, as the current scheme does.

2) The sheer number of options in each drop-down could cause information overload in a sidebar.


So here's my new suggestion, partly based on what dduff617 and Leonardo said previously:

[B]Add a "View" inspector,[/B] somewhat modeled after the Spotlight sidebar. Here are the benefits:

1) This leaves you your ultra-compact UI.

2) It also allows those who want to to get rid of the View bar (and all the confusion it creates due to its similarity to column headers) and still be able to view/adjust the filtering/sorting settings. Given what Ken said about column headers, hiding the View bar is the only resolution I can see to this issue. Although, I'm pondering dduff617's suggestion to put more of a break between the view bar and the projects/context/tasks below it -- that may help as well.

3) It also allows for fast selection of sort/filtering criteria, by showing all available options for a category when you expand the category. (This is the part that's modeled after Spotlight's UI: show all the options in that category, with the currently selected setting highlighted.)

4) Using Omni's usual collapsible Inspector panes, you can reduce the information overload by expanding only the categories you want to manipulate.

I was originally thinking of using a hideable sidebar or drawer for this, but the collapsible UI in the Inspector panes makes them more appealing.

Thoughts? It still feels like this isn't the ideal solution -- it feels like there's a big unsolved UI problem with filtering generally -- even aside from the view bar, people have mentioned confusion due to the search field filtering their tasks without their noticing. And it still seems inelegant to splat sorting in with filtering.

[QUOTE=Craig;18503]I think shift-return will allow you to enter a second (third, etc) quick entry.[/QUOTE]

You are correct. Thanks!

[QUOTE=pjc;18513]
[B]Add a "View" inspector,[/B] somewhat modeled after the Spotlight sidebar. Here are the benefits:
[/quote]

Please don't take this advice.

[quote]
1) This leaves you your ultra-compact UI.
[/quote]

Our definitions of "compact" are apparently incompatible. For some reason I don't consider extra windows and dialogs cluttering up the landscape compact. And speaking of extra windows, if I have two OF windows open, how are my view bar settings in each window reflected? The title bar is nice, but the view bar is nicer. Inspectors would suck for this.

[quote]
2) It also allows those who want to to get rid of the View bar (and all the confusion it creates due to its similarity to column headers) and still be able to view/adjust the filtering/sorting settings.
[/quote]

I am not confused by the view bar in the slightest (as has already been stated). I do not associate it with column headers because it does not look anything at all like a header. The only thing it has in common with column headers is it's location.

[quote]
3) It also allows for fast selection of sort/filtering criteria, by showing all available options for a category when you expand the category. (This is the part that's modeled after Spotlight's UI: show all the options in that category, with the currently selected setting highlighted.)
[/quote]

There is nothing really simpler than having the filter/sort criteria right next to the thing you are filtering. It's also great how I can glance right at the same spot (directly above my data) to see how it is filtered.

[quote]
4) Using Omni's usual collapsible Inspector panes, you can reduce the information overload by expanding only the categories you want to manipulate.
[/quote]

Sounds like the interface for MS Office. This has inconvenience and confusion written all over it.


[quote]Thoughts? It still feels like this isn't the ideal solution -- it feels like there's a big unsolved UI problem with filtering generally -- even aside from the view bar, people have mentioned confusion due to the search field filtering their tasks without their noticing. And it still seems inelegant to splat sorting in with filtering.[/QUOTE]

I disagree with everything in this paragraph. The current solution is fine. And putting sorting and filtering in the same spot makes perfect sense as they both directly impact what you're looking at right now (and people frequently use them both at the same time so putting them in different places is just annoying).

For Ken Case:

My vote is for leaving the view bar exactly as it is and making the name "filter bar" again like it used to be. I also take issue with the statements that "most people" are confused by or are complaining about the filter bar. Perhaps a poll is in order.

I have to agree with Curt and MEP: I find that the current view bar works just fine. I'm not at all bothered by the density of information in it.

Just to back Brian up, I also don't have a problem with the view bar or it's UI. I've never confused them with column headings or found it difficult to use.

[QUOTE=MEP;18515]My vote is for leaving the view bar exactly as it is and making the name "filter bar" again like it used to be. I also take issue with the statements that "most people" are confused by or are complaining about the filter bar. Perhaps a poll is in order.[/QUOTE]

If we're voting, you can take MEPs comment and duplicate it for me.

I like the [B]filter[/B] bar. I never have confused it with column headers.

--Liz

MEP, I don't know why you felt it necessary to **** all over my idea with such venom. I'll see if I can extract useful feedback from your criticism:

[QUOTE=MEP]I ... take issue with the statements that "most people" are confused by or are complaining about the filter bar.[/QUOTE]

I apologize for not being precise -- I didn't intend to imply that most users of OF are complaining about the filter bar, but rather that most of the people who are complaining about the filter bar are complaining about its resemblance to column headers. I've edited my post to clarify.

[QUOTE]Our definitions of "compact" are apparently incompatible. (Further sarcasm omitted.)[/QUOTE]

Our definitions of "add" are apparently incompatible. I wasn't suggesting the removal of the filter bar. I was suggesting ADDING another way to adjust the adjust the view/filters, a way the resolves the (few) problems the filter bar has, while introducing a few problems that the filter bar doesn't have.

[QUOTE]And speaking of extra windows, if I have two OF windows open, how are my view bar settings in each window reflected?[/QUOTE]

This is a good point -- perhaps this argues more for a drawer than an a floating inspector window.

[QUOTE]I am not confused by the view bar in the slightest[/QUOTE]

I never said you were. I don't think anybody has said they were profoundly "confused" by it. But more than one person has expressed some frustration at its resemblance to column headers.

[QUOTE]The only thing it has in common with column headers is it's location.[/QUOTE]

And part of its function: sorting.

[QUOTE]There is nothing really simpler than having the filter/sort criteria right next to the thing you are filtering.[/QUOTE]

I agree that proximity is a good trait of the filter/view bar. Again, this would argue toward a drawer over a floating inspector window. (And no, I'm still not suggesting the removal of the bar.)

[QUOTE]Sounds like the interface for MS Office.[/QUOTE]

No, MS office decides on its own what you don't need to see, and completely hides it. This would allow the user to expand/collapse the criteria they wanted to work with. Collapsing a criterion wouldn't remove it from the list of criteria (unlike Office's dynamic menus, which will completely remove items from the menu). I wasn't suggesting hiding individual, less-used options under an expanded criterion.

[QUOTE]I disagree with everything in this paragraph.[/QUOTE]

You disagree that I feel a certain way? You disagree with the factual statement that "people have mentioned confusion due to the search field filtering their tasks without their noticing"? Ken Case has even commented on this latter issue.

If you're going to jump on me for (inadvertently) speaking for others, you might want to avoid intentionally doing the same.

[QUOTE]Perhaps a poll is in order.[/QUOTE]

This is probably a good idea. I'm not the only one who finds the view/filter bar UI a little odd, but maybe I'm in a tiny minority and it's not worth Omni's time to develop an additional UI. On the other hand, maybe there's a better solution.

I fully concur with this criticism of Omnifocus. In fact, it's why I'm not purchasing it yet. There is no way to review all that you have accomplished. To me, that is one of the payoffs of doing this stuff in the first place is to look back on your week and at that moment when you feel like you've accomplished nothing, you can turn on the completion review and be rewarded with a look at what you HAVE gotten done. This is, IMO, a huge oversight in your design.

JC

[QUOTE=schmomni;39023]There is no way to review all that you have accomplished.[/QUOTE]

Doesn't some variation of these view bar settings not satisfy your requirement?

[ATTACH]551[/ATTACH]

Or am I misunderstanding you?

-Dennis

[QUOTE=Toadling;39028]Doesn't some variation of these view bar settings not satisfy your requirement?[/QUOTE]

The only catch with those settings is that, since Context mode shows only active projects they don't show actions if the entire project has been completed, put on hold, or dropped. You need to complement them with Planning mode (showing completed projects, grouped and sorted by completion date).

[QUOTE=brianogilvie;39082]The only catch with those settings is that, since Context mode shows only active projects they don't show actions if the entire project has been completed, put on hold, or dropped.[/QUOTE]

Actually, when you're showing completed items in Context mode it shows items from all projects (including those which have been completed, put on hold, or dropped).

[QUOTE=Ken Case;39088]Actually, when you're showing completed items in Context mode it shows items from all projects (including those which have been completed, put on hold, or dropped).[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the correction! Since I rarely view completed actions, I had not noticed that. Was it added at some point in alpha testing? I seem to recall that it used to work as I described in my previous post.

[QUOTE=brianogilvie;39160]Thanks for the correction! Since I rarely view completed actions, I had not noticed that. Was it added at some point in alpha testing? I seem to recall that it used to work as I described in my previous post.[/QUOTE]

You recall correctly; here is an excerpt from the release notes for October 25:

[QUOTE]Restored the 'Completed' filter to Context mode. It was removed previously since it didn't show all the completed actions (only those from active projects) and this was confusing people. Now, it's back and it shows all completed actions from all projects within the current focus (all On Hold, Dropped and especially Completed projects). This allows the user to have a better view of what they've done over the last week, for example.[/QUOTE]

What I love about OF:

1. How organic it is in allowing stuff to bubble up and and get caught in the inbox. then process and developed into projects and actions. It's an awesome tool for the creative that has trouble getting things done.

2. Potential of Context mode: I think that this is the most powerful aspect of OF. However, I'm still learning/tweaking the system. Also wondering if some tweaks may come in future versions of the software. So I'm holding out for this one to full pay off in time when I am fully integrated with it's potential.

What I hate about OF:

1. Would want folders and action groups to behave more like projects at times and be able to go on hold, check off folders. Would like action groups to be able to act more like projects.

All-in-all I am very pleased with OF. I'm stilll learning how to use the system, so I am not so sure my other complaints are of merit yet, as there may be fixes for them.