'Under Construction?'
 

"there is now an Under Construction banner on the toolbar and a 15 day expiration period. We want to make sure everyone is running the current sneaky peek version and know that they're running something that is not an official release"

There goes using the sneaky peeks for day to day usage :(

Surely if people have gone to the extent of registering on the forum and downloading a sneaky peek, they KNOW that they are running a beta without some stripey banner.

Shame, these were stable, extremely usable builds.

The Under Construction banner, which is actually just on the title bar, is actually pretty subtle... I'm surprised to hear you say that it would inhibit day to day use. Is there any particular reason that would stop you from using the Sneaky Peek?

It is sort of subtle, but not enough. I do find it irritating. I just don't want that thing pulling my eye away from a site, which it does at the moment.

It's as much the fact that it doesn't seem necessary to me. However, I'm aware that I'm not the one that has to answer support emails about sneaky peek releases!

Ugh, I have to second Jon on this one. What's up with the 15 day limit? If we have a valid license, shouldn't we be able to use what we paid for? Only thing I can think of is that this is close to RC status, and that OG expects to have another SP out really soon.

We will make sure you have a release available that isn't expired, this is just to ensure that you're running the latest build available.

I was a bit wary of what 'under construction' meant, but when I (giddily) loaded up the sneaky peek I was quite pleased seeing the subtle stripes. Then again, I can see how someone in a business environment, for example, might not want them.

I think it might be because it reminds me of 90's websites that had the yellow & black stripes with an animated construction worker sign!

Thank goodness good taste prevailed.

Edit: and I can't get the image to display inline.

2: At least what I thought was good taste.

*gags*

Okay, now I see what you guys are upset about.

[IMG]http://home.comcast.net/~filehost/og/underconstruction.jpg[/IMG]

Just to clarify, what I posted (the bottom one) is a Photoshopped; just a joke.

Photoshopped, but sort of demonstrative of how obtrusive it can feel to the eye.

Jon, I totally agree.

Omnidudes, I love you guys, but there are seriously *much* better ways of indicating that an application is a beta / unstable / bleeding edge without sullying the UI like that. Just put a "construction" icon in the splash like everyone else does instead of changing the actual UI... please?

Just to be blunt: it's ugly and distracting as hell.

At first I thought this was a joke thread. How can you complain about the graphic? It is BARELY noticeable and there is nothing obtrusive or distracting about it. You are making something out of a non-issue.

[QUOTE=ChadCN]At first I thought this was a joke thread. How can you complain about the graphic? It is BARELY noticeable and there is nothing obtrusive or distracting about it. You are making something out of a non-issue.[/QUOTE]

Although it doesn't bother me very much, I personally refrain from blanket statements as they don't take into account personal preferences. Having seen some of Jon's work, I know he likes a refined touch.

[QUOTE=ChadCN]At first I thought this was a joke thread. How can you complain about the graphic? It is BARELY noticeable and there is nothing obtrusive or distracting about it. You are making something out of a non-issue.[/QUOTE]
Having the visual distraction of the graphic in the title bar every time I look up to a) enter an address into the address bar, or b) read the page title just to remind me that I should have lowered expectations because it's a beta is kind of silly. It's like taking a car out for a test drive and having "YOU ARE ON A TEST DRIVE" in translucent letters in your rear-view mirror.

Changing the UI in this way changes the experience of using the application. Beta testing isn't just to make sure there are no bugs and that features work correctly - it's testing the overall experience of using the application.

I hold Omnigroup to a higher level of user experience. Hell, that's one of the main reasons why I use their products: they feel [b]right[/b]. This doesn't.

after looking at this for half a day, I think it would even be less obtrusive if the colors were more vibrant. At least then ones eyes would get used to it. As it is now, I keep forgetting its there, and my eyes keep darting up to see what's going on with the menu bar.

OK, so nobody else thinks it's cute.

I feel sorry for the OmniGroup designer who thought of this neat way to make the (semi-private) beta stand out from normal versions.

I second Jon.

Fact: People use safari. Geeky people use omniweb. Geeky geek people use Omniweb Sneak preview. I am sure they all know what a sneaky preview is.

I'd love to see no strips too. And yes this build is real good.

yeah, this build rawks. (see, we're not all complaints!)

[QUOTE=afb]OK, so nobody else thinks it's cute.

I feel sorry for the OmniGroup designer who thought of this neat way to make the (semi-private) beta stand out from normal versions.[/QUOTE]

You're cute though. lol :D

[QUOTE=nt10]Fact: People use safari. Geeky people use omniweb. Geeky geek people use Omniweb Sneak preview. I am sure they all know what a sneaky preview is.[/QUOTE]

That's far from a fact ;)

I remember back in the 4.5 days when all the SP's were publicly available. The OG got a ton of bad press whenever there was a bug in one.

Even judging by the posts in this board since the SP's have been made public, there is a strong need to remind people it's beta software. With the 5.0 beta, IIRC, they put a hardhat or some other construction motif for the startup screen.

Another reason to put the stripes on are to make screen shots of the sneaky peeks distiguishable from the official release. I suppose we could consider changing the window title to "[SNEAKY PEAK] Page Title" or some other way to differentiate.

Just to let you know, we really toned this down for the OmniWeb sneaky peaks, other Omni applications previously had a much stronger stripe:
[IMG]http://homepage.mac.com/lencase/Picture%208.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://homepage.mac.com/lencase/Picture%2010.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Len Case]Another reason to put the stripes on are to make screen shots of the sneaky peeks distiguishable from the official release. I suppose we could consider changing the window title to "[SNEAKY PEAK] Page Title" or some other way to differentiate.[/QUOTE]

Ah, yeah I can see your reasoning now, and I guess you can't rely on the presence of unified toolbars as users might have a theme installed (or altered it in Interface builder like I used to do).

In sp7, we've added a new hidden "HideConstructionWarning" default which does what it sounds like it does.

Ahh! Beauty! Thanks Ken - worked a treat!

I'd just like to add that I do think the achtung stripes are a good idea. They're just the right opacity, judging from the other screenshot, and I'll proudly be keeping it.

Thank you very much, Ken (and other OmniFolks)!

How do I got about enabling this? Thanks.

Quit OmniWeb and into Terminal, type or paste the following:

defaults write com.omnigroup.OmniWeb5 HideConstructionWarning -bool true

Then start up OmniWeb and feel much better about your favourite browser.

Ahhh.

thank you very much!!! That's indeed so much better. :D

It's probably just me, but i'd love to have the stripes in the final version as an option. :)

I like the stripes too. So I remember that all my OW betas in the past (4.x, 5.x) were more stable than the final versions of other browsers, really :-))

[QUOTE=Josue Salazar]It's probably just me, but i'd love to have the stripes in the final version as an option. :)[/QUOTE]
I think it might be just you ;)...

I'd like to get back the the pure title bar eventually

Much ado about nothing
 

I dunno if I should get too far into this 'controversy', other than saying this really is a storm in a teacup; we are dealing with pre-release software and the stripes are an appropriate measure, particularly in defence against 'bad' press.

...but anyway, it's basically resolved, those a little too sensitive about it can turn it off (and you'd [b][u]hope[/u][/b] would be responsible enough not to spread negative feedback, or non-final screenshots...)

In the light of day, I would think that the designer's in this forum (graphic, interface or otherwise) would be familiar with protecting their own work-in-progress, so perhaps we should respect the OG guys doing the same. :)

Just my 2c

[QUOTE=Len Case]Another reason to put the stripes on are to make screen shots of the sneaky peeks distiguishable from the official release. I suppose we could consider changing the window title to "[SNEAKY PEAK] Page Title" or some other way to differentiate.

Just to let you know, we really toned this down for the OmniWeb sneaky peaks, other Omni applications previously had a much stronger stripe:
[IMG]http://homepage.mac.com/lencase/Picture%208.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://homepage.mac.com/lencase/Picture%2010.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]

That's funny ... this is the first time I've ever noticed the stripes and I've used other Omni sneaky peaks on a number of occasions. I guess because they are more subtle, I immediately wondered why they were there.

And reading this forum with them really confused me for a moment, as the title bar said "Under construction - Omni Group Forums ..." Made me think the "Under construction" was part of the sneaky peak warning!:o

I'll think about turning the stripes off, but they're not that distracting to me.

Mark

Woah, there are some strong words being used here - 'Controversy', 'Upset', 'Sensitive'. These don't describe my feelings at all

These design things matter to me, but don't call me upset just because I don't like my Omniweb looking like a bad Shapeshifter theme! ;)

sp7 is nearly perfect. So we have to discuss the stripes since the rest is working find :)

:D Good point! So about those stripes...

[QUOTE=teorema67]sp7 is nearly perfect. So we have to discuss the stripes since the rest is working find :)[/QUOTE]

:eek:
*fine* sorry

I (unfortunately for me) found a reason to get rid of the stripes: it seems that the modification keeps the window from minimizing on a double-click.

[QUOTE=Jon Hicks]Woah, there are some strong words being used here - 'Controversy', 'Upset', 'Sensitive'. These don't describe my feelings at all[/QUOTE]
Ooops, OK... I didn't think I came on that strongly (didn't say 'upset' at all), maybe I should have spelt out those were air-quotes, instead of just using the apostrophes to show I wasn't being entirely serious. Obviously not enough smilies! :)

[QUOTE=Jon Hicks]These design things matter to me, but don't call me upset just because I don't like my Omniweb looking like a bad Shapeshifter theme![/quote]

But hey, I wasn't aiming at just you, several people seemed to be 'upset' (i.e. moved enough to talk about it!), and it was enough to prompt a blog entry. :)

...oh well, now Josue and I can start lobbying in the background for an option to keep the stripes in the released version! :p ;)

I wasn't just aiming at you either Marc! Sorry if you thought I was.

Yeah, I was suprised to see it as a blog entry! I kinda feel like I started all this, but its got a bit out of control. Controversy indeed!

Personally, I didn't like the stripes - but now that you can turn it off it's a non-issue.

However, the 15 day limit is ass-y. I stopped using OW all together because it was just too slow, and not nearly as good as Camino IMO. With the improvements in 5.5 I can finally use the software that I loved enough to pay for in a field of free browsers.

The 15 day limit though is a total drag. I was just getting used to the idea that OW was my default browser again too....

[QUOTE=gofast]The 15 day limit though is a total drag. I was just getting used to the idea that OW was my default browser again too....[/QUOTE]
It's not a problem because they won't keep you from using it; you're just forced to upgrade, which is certainly a good thing:
[QUOTE=troyb]We will make sure you have a release available that isn't expired, this is just to ensure that you're running the latest build available.[/QUOTE]

Personally, I like to use old, buggy software when there's a newer version which fixes the bugs. OmniWeb makes web surfing too easy as it is.

Sparkle for auto-update
 

[QUOTE=gofast]...The 15 day limit though is a total drag. I was just getting used to the idea that OW was my default browser again too....[/QUOTE]
Weeell, it [B]is[/B] still in testing... but anyway, the issue of updates has come up a few times, so auto-update may be a welcome addition? ...esp. when the time limit is imposed to ensure old versions are replaced! :)

I've been pretty impressed with Andy Matuschak's [B][URL="http://andymatuschak.org/pages/sparkle"]Sparkle[/URL][/B] framework for auto-updates; it's RSS-based, and handles everything for the user (release notes, download, install, relaunch) and is worth [URL="http://andymatuschak.org/pages/sparkle"]checking out[/URL], even if just to bug your fav developers! ;)

...and of all of their apps, OmniWeb would be the most obvious to have auto-updating -- clearly you're online (yes, yes, [I]most[/I] of the time!)

The 15 day limit just means that we're assured a new sp within that time! Thats a good thing!

[QUOTE=Jon Hicks]The 15 day limit just means that we're assured a new sp within that time! Thats a good thing![/QUOTE]
+1. I agree ;).

[QUOTE=Jon Hicks]The 15 day limit just means that we're assured a new sp within that time! Thats a good thing![/QUOTE]

Actually, I think it is a good thing that we'll always have a current one. But I'd agree with the previous poster that an auto update would be nice. It's not a HUGE deal, but stopping to go grab the latest, dl and install it every 2 weeks....I dunno. It's really not a big deal I suppose - but something about it makes me feel like I'm all of a sudden NOT going to have a working version for a while. And OW is finally back to being my fave browser...

As Marc said, something like Sparkle would be great. I love the way that Textmate updates and relaunches itself.

Auto-updates would be cool, but there would have to be some way to make people read the release notes before it updates (or at least make the user scroll past them.)

[QUOTE=Forrest]Auto-updates would be cool, but there would have to be some way to make people read the release notes before it updates (or at least make the user scroll past them.)[/QUOTE]
Not to mention make a backup of all their settings before running it for the first time - you do all do that, don't you?

;)

I don't know how often they intend on updating OW after the sp phase (and a more open beta phase?), but this (admittedly rather cool) feature seems most useful for apps that are updated very frequently. If they'd keep up with biweekly or monthly updates, I suppose it'd be nice then, otherwise probably not worth the effort on their part.

Now, an auto-backup feature would be very nice, particularly for the workspaces (I hate it when I lose my tabs), but on a daily (or so) basis, not just on updates.

[QUOTE=JKT]Not to mention make a backup of all their settings before running it for the first time - you do all do that, don't you?

;)[/QUOTE]

I do it if I've made major changes to my workspaces.

The quickest way to make a backup of them is to select the OW application support folder, right-click and choose "create archive."

I must agree with the auto-backup of some items. I know that even with Version 5.1.3 (563.66), I would get the occasional crash (for which I do dutifully send in the CrashCatcher reports).

When a crash occurs, it would definitely be extremely useful if the state at the time of the crash were saved in some way (or at least more obvious in the history, etc. in case I opened and minimized a window long before the crash that is no longer among the most recent in the history list).

That (and another bone-headed post on my part which was already covered by the release notes) aside:

I also look forward to the zoomed-editing rewrite

I really like the construction bars on the title bars!

It still feels generally solid, just a short time using it and I felt comfortable quitting 5.1.3 and moving to SP7 for primary usage.

Thank you, OmniGroup!

OK, this is a minor thing, but I have to respond-to/correct my own post...particularly since I'm not seeing it in the release notes:

I still have yet to have a crash since starting to use the sneekypeeks, but, I have had a general system hang and a manual reboot and I think it is decidedly spiffy that I no longer have to either finish reading all of my pending open OmniWeb windows or manually save them as bookmarks for returning to later as OmniWeb will re-load new pages on startup to any sites that were open on shutdown, even in the case of the complete system hang and power cycle.

[And thank you for defaulting internal PDF display back to off in sp10.]