OO Pro 4.0?
 

That has a nice ring to it. Any word on when 4.0 might be on the horizon? I realize that is top secret information of course, and it'll probably be a while, but I'm considering trying to use TAO. Please don't make me do it! The thing is kind of a nightmare, but it does have some impressive power outlining features.

Of course, I'm assuming (and hoping) that Omni will begin to close the gap on features.

I don't want to speak about future plans--but it might be a good idea for you to brainstorm here about what you would like from a theoretical OO 4.0...

Sure, I'm glad you're not too annoyed by my post.

Having experience with several of the outliner/notetaking apps, I'll tell you some of the features that are important for me.

-- Clones: you've heard this before of course. Hopefully self-explanatory. For me, links aren't as important, but I suppose they normally go together.

-- The ability to drag any entry into the sections pane, regardless of level. Important for using clones effectively, I think. Then if you're working on a particular entry and its children, you could have easy access to it.

-- Having "date modified" as accessible metadata, and the ability to sort non-destructively (so I can revert to my own order of entries). Mori does this well, you can just click on the date modified column, and click again to unsort.

-- Smart folders, allowing for collecting entries based on various criteria. Again, Mori does this well. TAO has an equivalent feature, but not as well executed.

With those features, I'd throw all of my other apps in the trash!

Agree on Clones, date modified (but then "what" constitutes a modification? expanding view? content change only?...) and Smart Folders (yes, yes, yes! but not sure how that fits in with current OO data model?)... not sure what you mean by "sections pane"? the level 1 entries you can "hoist" to?

[QUOTE=Ed Renaud]Agree on Clones, date modified (but then "what" constitutes a modification? expanding view? content change only?...) and Smart Folders (yes, yes, yes! but not sure how that fits in with current OO data model?)... not sure what you mean by "sections pane"? the level 1 entries you can "hoist" to?[/QUOTE]

On the Omni site they call it the sections drawer, just the drawer on the left where you can navigate some of your outline.

I think modification would have to be a content change.

I'm basically thinking about some of the advantages that I like in Mori. One of the major features that it's missing compared to OmniOutliner is the ability to wrap text in the main entry area.

[QUOTE=Len Case]I don't want to speak about future plans--but it might be a good idea for you to brainstorm here about what you would like from a theoretical OO 4.0...[/QUOTE]

I second the folders/groups suggestion as well. Cloning would be sweet.

How about tabs and split document windows as well. Split windows is something that I've come to depend on and can't really write without.

cheers

Split topics, create topics from note text
 

When I'm importing text to OO, frequently items are organized so that I'd like to select some part of a topic or note text and then create a new topic from that. Yes ... I can do a copy, create topic, paste ... but that extra step is a pain. If there was some "split topic" or "create topic from text" that took the text selection and created a topic, it would be very, very handy.

If the selection started from the start of the topic, the new topic would be inserted above the current topic with the selected text removed. If the selection ended with the end of the topic, the new topic would be inserted immediately below. Text in the middle ... hmm ... probably below ....

[QUOTE=mikejt]When I'm importing text to OO, frequently items are organized so that I'd like to select some part of a topic or note text and then create a new topic from that. Yes ... I can do a copy, create topic, paste ... but that extra step is a pain. If there was some "split topic" or "create topic from text" that took the text selection and created a topic, it would be very, very handy.

If the selection started from the start of the topic, the new topic would be inserted above the current topic with the selected text removed. If the selection ended with the end of the topic, the new topic would be inserted immediately below. Text in the middle ... hmm ... probably below ....[/QUOTE]


I don't think this does exactly what you want.. but do you know about control-return? It will split the row at the cursor give you two rows, the first row with the text before the cursor, and the 2nd with the text after the cursor.

--
Derek M.
Support Ninja
The Omni Group

Smart Folders. This is something that would be great. Then you could (if your into KTD) add your projects in one section, add a smart folder for all of the next actions with context "Errands" or "Home", etc. You could add a "!Important" category and then add a smart folder which includes all posts that are checked for that, etc.

And when you check the box in a smart folder, the check box in the original section will be checked as well.

This would be ultimate... Really hope you guys read this and implement it in the next version. ;-)

Converting text to rows ...
 

[QUOTE=DerekM]I don't think this does exactly what you want.. but do you know about control-return? It will split the row at the cursor give you two rows, the first row with the text before the cursor, and the 2nd with the text after the cursor.

--
Derek M.
Support Ninja
The Omni Group[/QUOTE]

Yep. Know about that (actually, I have the setting to make that the default), and I use it when importing staight indented text, but I already have all the newlines I need ... I just need to split the text *at the existing newlines* ...

As far as my item above, I was looking for a "Mori-like" capability to take a bunch of text and treat the first line as the top and the rest as either text or a child row.

One thing I would like to see is a zoom view or at least the ability to view at various magnifications.

Tacitus

My Dream OO
 

I am happy to see Len Case ask for what we would like to see in a "theoretical" OO 4.0- it is something I have been thinking about for a long time and this seems like the perfect invitation.

There appears to be two basic user camps for OO- the writers/ researchers and those who use it as a task/ project management system. I fall into the later category, so I can not say what is mssing software-wise for the writers. But, there are a number of things I would love to see in the next major release of OO for task management. Things get further complicated by the fact that I know Omnigroup is developing a Kinkless version and I do not know how the new software will affect/ change the user base of OO (maybe what I am writing should go into that forum).

Anyway, here is my list of features that I would love- no, need to see. This list has been developed through months of using programs such as OO, Mori, DevonThink, Merlin, Journaler, Yojimbo ... the list goes on and on. I have also spent countless hours scouring user forums and blogs (and I keep seeing the same group of people in each) looking for the perfect software solution. My conclusions are the following: 1. there is no perfect off-the-shelf solution (too many different people w/ different needs), 2. everyone is looking for the same basic set of core features (and the various companies are not delivering for whatever reason). For OO, it is smart folders, for Journler it is the lack of custom columns, etc.

All of the software I tested will have everything I need except one thing, and then the other software will have that one thing but will be missing something else that the first one had. It's a never ending cycle of trying to bend the software to do what I want it to do- I eventually give up and just do what the software wants me to do. I guess in that sense it is very similar to marriage, but that is another topic. If the various companies listened to what their users where saying, someone would be making a killing- I think the company that will make a killing is going to be the first company to come out with the software with the full set of core features.

What I envision is this- I would set up a basic outline (w/ custom columns) as my "database". Once the outline is set up, it would become almost secondary to the smart folders. I think that the smart folders should essentially become the program- smart folders, or a version of it, is where things are heading. Think iTunes, but with outlining capabilities.

Core Features:

1. Easy and intuitive outlining capabilities - OO is there and no major improvements are needed, in my opinion.
2. Custom columns- Again, I think OO is already there with the current columnar data types, but here are a couple more things that would further extend the existing capabilities.
- w/ auto-fill capabilities
- w/ non-destructive sorting (see: Mori)
- w/ the ability to add aliases (example: I could have a pop-up column with resources to assign to a task. I could assign a person, click on the name and it would take me to that person's smart folder that has all of the other assigned tasks). See: SailAlong Software ActionItems
- ability to add actions to- an example would be that the specific line would archive itself after it has been checked, or make private (see below)
- Privacy option per line- another checkbox?
3. Robust smart folders
- option to search by any column- this is where I think that strength of a program like I am describing would come from (in combination w/ custom column information).
- ability to edit smart folder contents (and would update info in the main outline)- smart folder would maintain the hierarchal structure and would editable

Secondary Features:

1. A floating palette for column "views"- this is where I think "sets" of user-defined columns should reside. Instead of being able to hide/suppress an individual column I think that you should be able to put together groups of columns (columns could end up in more than one group). I also think that this should be a hierarchal list.
2. Custom column views (similar to iTunes)- every "window" can be customized to show different columns.
3. Different views
- flattened table view- removes structure and allows total sorting by column
- iTunes (genre/ artist/ album)- also see: Merlin. This could replace the existing Utility Drawer?
4. Move to/ Duplicate to/ Clone to- see: DevonThink

Tertiary Features:

1. sync to Address Book- this feature would be great to use with the pop-up column type I described above when assigning tasks.
2. sync to iCal- for obvious reasons
3. able to network with other users on a network- this would be huge for our office
4. Export to OmniPlan

Anyway, there it is in a nutshell (a big one). There are many other little things I would like to see (and i may add ore if I think of any), but these are all of the key features that would make me very happy and productive. If anyone on your end is interested, feel free to contact me via email and I would be more than happy to have someone in our graphics department put together some simulated screenshots for you that would better illustrate what I am talking about.

By the way, I think that there needs to be a separate forum for feature requests. It is too hard to sort through all of the postings of people asking questions vs. those that are asking about features or have feature requests.

Thanks,
Jason

[QUOTE=JasonI] everyone is looking for the same basic set of core features (and the various companies are not delivering for whatever reason). For OO, it is smart folders, for Journler it is the lack of custom columns, etc.[/QUOTE]

Good points, I agree smart folders are a key feature. If they are configurable enough, they could also partially substitute for other needed functions, such as cloning and sorting (for me, non-destructive sorting is also very important). They are a way to get easy access to certain parts of your outline.

Hopefully some of these are coming soon, right now although OO has many virtues, it is severely lacking in the power feature comparison. It has a solid base to add to and potentially become the king of outliners.

My Dream OO II
 

I agree. Although I keep a good majority of my lists, todos and project tasks etc. in OO, I am beginning to feel like it is too static. I can't get to the info I want easily- I have to work for it. I want to be able to set up a system and just have the information I need right at my fingertips.

The combination of smart folders and custom columns would allow for a much simpler outline structure and would also eliminate the need for cloning, if you set up the basic ouline properly. For example, if you have a specific task under a project heading, instead of assigning it to a resource by copying/ cloning to a separate outline (or, separate section of the same outline) for the person you are assigning the task to, you just set up a column where you are able to select the person's name from a list. You then set up a smart folder for that person and all of the tasks that are assigned to him/ her would appear in that smart folder. You could take it a step further by having a column where the project name is on a list (or pops up with auto-fill) and a smart folder that corresponds to all tasks that are marked with that project's name. One step even further would be that all parents in an outline become searchable metadata too- just by the very nature of where a piece of data is in relation to other data, in a hierarchal structure, says a lot about that data. It's a natural progression, we are not losing the outlining, but taking it to the next level of being able to manipulate, organize, and view it in new and meaniful ways.

It's time to make the data more than just a static outline- all of the elements are available to turn the outline into a dynamic informational organizer. So, again, I think that it all comes down to having very powerful and capable smart folders. I think that OG has developed a phenomenal outlining program and I'm sure that it will remain that way. But, I also believe that outlining has matured to the point that most improvements will only be incremental. By combining OO along with the technology of smart folders (not outling w/ smart folder capabilities), you actually develop a new type of program (yes, I know they already exist, but I think that we are only in this software categories' infancy). I guess what I am saying is that now is the time for a very capable and highly regarded software company to come in and do it right. No more of this mom and pop type software in this category- I want the real thing and I think OG can deliver.

- Sorry for the editorializing- just frustrated right now, but optimistic that things are heading in the right direction.

improvements I hope to see on this fine product.
 

-I would like to see the ability to add an auto-updating table of contents that I can add even minor items to without harming the rest of the structure in any way. For example, i might want a ToC to only go 2 or 3 levels into my outline, but at the fifth level there might be one important nugget of info, i'd like to be able to note that on the ToC without the entire ToC shifting to become a five level ToC or suffering any other harm to its structure.

-The ability to assign any key combo I want to the shortcuts.
-A zoom feature with the ability to set and save custom zoom levels (for example, in word, I find that I like working with 140% much more than with 100 or 200.)
-Styles staying static the way I've fixed them in my template even if I paste in text that is styled differently. I dislike it when the next sibling I make is an amalgam of both styles.

Basically, it will hopefully be an outliner that has its default settings set up in such a way that it's not too difficult for a newbie to learn the basics, but that has every (or almost every) single aspect of it customizable for advanced users). Also, better documentation. It would easily become the best outliner on the market if it had all the power users, plus full customisability, along with it's already impressive gui.

and better searching abilities. sorry.

this is the last one. again sorry about not having it all in once post.

-the ability to lock parts of the document.
-the ability to export to ical or entourage (which a lot of mac users use as it has more features).

Links
 

Biggest feature for me is the ability to hyperlink to anchors or other sections of the document.

...that and I wish it played nicer with spellcatcher.

...and I would like to see a range of templates included with the pro version.

Also, fullscreen editing mode would be nice too.

Also, I would like the ability to move the column entries in the style hierarchy (IE, so the style of columns overrides the rows.) and hide the notes column

While I'm dreaming, I'd also like a pony.

My personal wishlist:

- wiki links inside the document and among documents (see DevonThink)
- a progress bar showing the percent of things done at a given level

Stefano from Italy

[QUOTE=jsg]
While I'm dreaming, I'd also like a pony.[/QUOTE]

Smart folders + OmniPony = world peace

Project management tool:

I use Omnioutliner as a project management tool in creating, updating information to and delivering coach tours around Europe (on a preset/ arranged tour completion template I created) .

My biggest gripe is that you cannot in OO3 easily allow other users in the project team to access and manipulate the data either by syncing with it or by placing it in a network/web space for all to access accordingly in real time. Such a simple move, but a radical transformation. It would require a file master/owner to be able to set relevant access features (read, write, delete as a starter).

Jason (?) notes it as a tertiary feature in part 3?:


"Tertiary Features:

1. sync to Address Book- this feature would be great to use with the pop-up column type I described above when assigning tasks.
2. sync to iCal- for obvious reasons
3. able to network with other users on a network- this would be huge for our office
4. Export to OmniPlan"

For me this is a primary function for omnioutliner. If one person can use why can't several people access it?

Hodge1- I listed networking abiltiy as a tertiary feature only because there are the primary features I need right away for my organization. Also, because the feedback I have received from OmniGroup (as well as in the forums) says that it is a difficult feature to implement. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see this feature too, it's just that there are a couple other things I would like to see first.

As a side note, I have been looking at the recent patent applications Apple has made regarding the new finder in Leopard, and I would like to add something else to the list: I think that it would be great if OO could be searchable using Spotlight- the main text of the outline is searchable according to the columns (as the metadata). For instance, I could have a bunch of tasks w/ due dates, and any other piece of information you wanted to attach, assigned to particular people (all assigned through the columns) with smart folders set up in the finder that would accumulate the search results. I hope that this makes sense. This would hopefully put all tasks from Mail and OO together in one folder.

Again, I find it interesting that there are many people looking for the same feature sets in a number of different programs. I love the way OO works and I really hope that OmniGroup is the first ones to make this all-inclusive PM/ task mangagement solution.

Someone at OmniGroup, please give me some hope that you are listening and that you will be able to make all of my wildest dreams (software-wise that is) come true.

Searches and multiple documents
 

[QUOTE=Len Case]I don't want to speak about future plans--but it might be a good idea for you to brainstorm here about what you would like from a theoretical OO 4.0...[/QUOTE]

Two features that IMHO are a must:

1) Search results showing in the main window, so I can compare parts of the entries, e.g. film database with columns for year, director, actor. I could search under Actor and see with which directors he has worked.

2) The table function is a main attraction. But I have to keep a separate documents for every set of columns I create.
So instead of having my data in one document, I have to have a dozen or more ? Not very efficient, I think.

With these two functions added, I wouldn't even try to look for another outliner.

Needed features for 4.0
 

I have a couple (6) of features I'd like to see in OOP 4.0.

1) smart (curly) quotes (option to use or not)

2) have an option for the return key to create a new row and position the cursor in the same column you were just editing. To clarify, I frequently want to enter text into the 3rd column, row after row (creating new rows and leaving the outline column blank) but when I hit return, it puts my cursor into column number one, then I have to manually move it over into the 3rd column. A pain when you have to do it repetitively. I'm not suggesting that you make this the default, because for most purposes, you want it to go to column 1 when you create a row. But the option would be great.

3) ability to hide columns on screen. I frequently use many columns and their number complicates things when I only want to use one or two columns. It's a problem because I'll be entering text into one or two columns, and suddenly hit a wrong arrow key or something and find myself way on the other side of the document and then I have to scroll way back to where I was, which interrupts my flow of thought and makes it have a "I'm lost in my document" feel. Hiding columns would make my life a lot easier.

4) have multiple user-defined presets in the omnioutliner section of the page setup. Sometimes (on that many column document from suggestion 2 above) I need to print either these columns in this format, or these other columns in a different format, and if I had presets, I wouldn't have to try and figure out what settings I used last time.

5) ability to select text from multiple cells within a column, to copy and paste into a word processor (the would be separated into paragraphs).

6) Split-panes (vert. & horiz.) would be excellent too.

If there are current solutions to any of these, and someone's feeling charitable, please let me know,

#2, #3, #5 are necessities to me.

[QUOTE=abh19]6) Split-panes (vert. & horiz.) would be excellent too.
[/QUOTE]
If I think this is what you mean, I personally would prefer the way OmniGraffle does it of having the ability to open two or more windows of the same document at the same time so that you can view and work on different sections at the same time. A split-pane version of this as an option would be useful too. FWIW. the reason why two windows is a good option is because you can put one on one screen and the other on a second screen if you have it.

Stuff I like in the competition...
 

Simple, dumb and hence incredibly well suited to my brain....highlighting.

Smart, useful and fun would be wiki-style links, either to subsections or other docs or actual lines....

Ditto to the column hiding.

Ditto to the search pane (love VoodooPads...)

Smart Folders sounds like it's great, but I don't really use OOP as an Info Gathering type tool. It excels at making documents I think. But it might be a nice option....

Cloning!!!

Also ... get out your ancient copy of More, and look at anything from the outline section that you haven't implemented yet.

OOPro is great -- but More was genius.

And another -- the ability to number items non-contiguously:

1
2
(no number)
3

Current behavior is
1
2
(no number)
4


And I'm still not happy with the print engine, though it's far better than it used to be.

I have an example for Smart Folders (Photoshoped)

Suppose I'm listing years from 1997-2006, and in each year i added rows of bullets in them, i then (tag) some notes in year 2003,2001..etc as a (places i went to) tag, then by adding a "smart row" it automatically looks for the tag (places i went to) and then displays them,

[URL=http://imageshack.us][IMG]http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/6643/unknownsz3.jpg[/IMG][/URL]


after that i see (places i went to) items and each row has the year next to it (trees name) being in a column for instance


[URL=http://imageshack.us][IMG]http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/3659/unknown1xd3.jpg[/IMG][/URL]


I think this feature could make this app really powerful, especially if the tags could be customized the same way as smart folders, so for instance a smart folder could be linked to web bookmarks that are added in the notes, or a smart folder for picture attachments, i think this could make the notes much more organized,

And that would open a lot of possibilities, say for instance a tag could be done for tutorials, or to buy items, top-priority tasks, GTD..etc

Working on a large OmniOutliner file with dozens of notes makes it really difficult to get the info i want

I don't know if thats doable or not, but just an idea

BTW, I've posted this as a reply in another topic, I've decided to post it again to get more attention.

Thanks in advance

Mr.Projects

One feature I'd love to see is database support, perhaps via an ODBC layer or direct support of MySQL.

Practical Example: Using this notional OO4 client to maintain a task list that is otherwise maintained on a web server. If OO pulled its data from a database rather than a local flat file, it would be possible for me to write an online interface that allowed clients to add to the list, approve or reject specific tasks, etc., while keeping everything in sync locally.

This might sound esoteric, but the implications of this are pretty powerful and aren't limited to a task list, although that's the app I would write today if I could.

Cheers,
Steve

In Control 3.5?
 

1.) Can somebody at Omni please make a deal with FileMaker and acquire the best OS9 outliner to date - IN CONTROL 3.5 - and integrate it into OmniOutliner?
[URL="http://www.fluteplayer.net/2007/02/in-control-35-anything-like-it-online.html"]http://www.fluteplayer.net/2007/02/in-control-35-anything-like-it-online.html[/URL]

2.) Please provide an online version of OmniOutliner (Google Docs has the right idea, but they don't have an outliner - yet).

Thanks,

-Bob

IN CONTROL 3.5 (cont.)
 

Here's a screen shot of IN CONTROL 3.5:
[URL="http://bobafifi.com/in_control.html"]http://bobafifi.com/in_control.html[/URL]

Thanks,

-Bob

any news on omnioutliner pro ? why is it taking so long ?

Outliner 4 is definitely on our "we will do this" list, but we have to perfect our engineer-cloning technology before we can start working on any more projects. ;-)

LOL! I wish you all the luck :)

It's worth noting that much of the work that we are doing on OmniFocus will be in OO4 in the future.

-andrew

collaborative outlining
 

Hi all, I used to use some Omni software a *long* time ago on NeXT TurboColor workstations. I recently purchased a Mac and so am looking into OmniGroup software again.

I'll be running a small but intense project this summer and am looking for project management software. OmniPlan seems overkill for group smaller than five people. OmniOutliner looks much more like what I need but a few features would really hit the nail on the head.

1) Collaboration. This is easily the most important feature for me. There's a product called Process which comes close with this. They allow realtime collaboration over the network but not in a very configurable way. My group is spread across the United States so local network discovery doesn't help me very much. The previous post about syncing with a db server would solve my problem very nicely. Ad-hoc collaboration would be nice too, but I'm getting greedy.

2) Revision control. I store everything in svn, and while svn can store binary files, I can't do a meaningful diff on binary files. The easy fix for this would be to store the file as a text file. Yes, this would create bloat, but svn only stores diffs across revisions so no real bloat. An even better solution would be svn integration. This would allow you to "publish to svn" or something like that and you could put features in to view the history of the file. Text files would be unnecessary with this.

Of course the db integration would take care of revision control, but then a nice way to do both would be have a local sqlite file. I've seen db server/sqlite connectivity in some sort of app before. I think they did it that way because then the app can always think its talking to a server and it just makes it somewhat easier to program.

Anyway, sorry for being so long winded.

-Dave

Dave, I have good news and bad news. The bad news is that OO3 doesn't support collaboration. It's not out of the question that OO4 will get it, but certainly not guaranteed (our styling capabilities are one thing that make simultaneous editing difficult, if that's what you're looking for) and OO4 is not imminent in any case. Sorry I don't have better news on that front.

The good news is that while the default is for OO to write documents in compressed form, you can turn that off on a per-document basis via the Document: Advanced inspector (uncheck "Compress on Disk"). You can turn this off on the default document template to have future documents automatically default to uncompressed. (The uncompressed form is XML.) We use this internally so we can store our documents in Subversion with meaningful diffs.

-andrew

4.0: 3 wishes
 

my wish list for 4.0 would be:

1. enhanced attachment tags (image scaling, collapse all tags, print with/ without tags,…)
2. optional "paste text" that treats paragraphs as new rows. a sort of option for auto-ctrl-return.
3. clones

[QUOTE=kristian]2. optional "paste text" that treats paragraphs as new rows[/QUOTE]

Paragraphs will paste into new rows if you paste out of text editing mode.

[QUOTE=DerekM]Paragraphs will paste into new rows if you paste out of text editing mode.[/QUOTE]
To add to that, press escape to exit text editing mode prior to pasting.

4 feature requests
 

[QUOTE=Len Case]I don't want to speak about future plans--but it might be a good idea for you to brainstorm here about what you would like from a theoretical OO 4.0...[/QUOTE]

I'd really like to see the following 4 things for version 4:[LIST][*]The OmniOutliner page inside the Print dialog should remember settings between print jobs.[*]Export to Excel: I know the export plug-in by Omni but it's not the right thing for my needs. It would be nice if every indention could flow in a new row inside the Excel file. For example: Entries of the third level in OmniOutliner would be in the C column in Excel. This would lead to the same tree structure as it is in the OO file. OO notes should get saved in comments in the Excel file (as they are with the current plug-in). Advantage: I could use OmniOutliner as my main tool for outlining structures and quickly hand over an Excel file to a Windows co-worker prior to my holidays.[*]Export as HTML should optionally be possible without notes.[*]Expot (as HTML, Excel, whatever) should also be possible for the selected rows of the document only.[/LIST]

speed
 

Sometimes OO beachballs for reasons I can't figure out, and it is reliably slow when I try to paste in say 1000 rows by 4-5 columns of plain text. So my feature request is: Better handling of large outlines, and no beachballs.

[QUOTE=Len Case]I don't want to speak about future plans--but it might be a good idea for you to brainstorm here about what you would like from a theoretical OO 4.0...[/QUOTE]

The only one I would like to see is a zoom function. Some of us are visually challenged as they say......

In my quest to become the most annoying poster, just a reminder: OmniOutliner 3.0 was released in January 2005. Yes, '05!

My main request for OO 4.0 would be to take advantage of the .mac / dotmac Sync services so I can keep an outline up to date across my two macs.

Yojimbo has this feature and its very handy to be able to work on the laptop when I'm away from the main machine and have those notes combine later on.

Yojimbo can also sync with my Palm TX via Missing Sync. I know your notes for OO mention the "unstable status of the Palm OS" - well a lot of us use it and a lot of other programs seem to be making the effort.

OmniFocus looks promising but its lack of syncing features in 1.0 doesn't inspire.

My vote would be for image resizing capabilities. However rudimentary, any improvement would be helpful (see [URL="http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=3501"]this thread [/URL]and my cumbersome workaround).

Thanks,
Dan Byler

Feature request for OO4: Do *not* implement this one
 

Seeing the folder functionality in OmniFocus I was wondering if this might be a feature in OO4.

Here's the thing: I really like the way I'm able to build a structure in the current OO. I've tested some other Outliners (Windows on the work machine...) -- some of them force the user to put "nodes" inside folders which was really embarrising for me.

OO on the other hand let's me write my thoughts straight from my brain -- no need to think about placing folders. If the mood strikes me, I hit Tab to indent and I'm done (or Shift-Tab to move the item one level up).

Please keep this feature!


Regards,
Stefan

Quicksilver
 

While I have a lot of ideas for what could be added to OmniOutliner or fixed in it, the one thing that pops up in my mind way too often is Quicksilver support.

I use OmniOutliner Pro for a To Do list among many other things.

What I would like to see is the ability to add notes into it through Quicksilver, like you can add lines into .txt files. Possibly even having control on where to put them, such as under specific headers for example.

Of course I don't know if the OmniGroup can even make that since it's not actually part of the application itself, but an addon for Quicksilver, but seeins as how Quicksilver is part of so many people's arsenal of Mac apps, it has clear potential.

MJK: I haven't looked into it, but I think with Outliner's AppleScript support, this is already possible. Someone just needs to write the scripts.

I would like for OOP4 to sport an audio recording feature like that found in Circus Ponies NoteBook 2.1. In NoteBook, one can turn on the recording feature at the beginning of an outlining session (say, at the beginning of a lecture) and record continuous audio, with each entry in the outline establishing a marker in the audio recording. Click on the audio icon next to any outline entry made in the recorded session and the audio will play from a few seconds before the point at which the outline entry was made.

amarcou

I second that. That's a great feature of CircusPonies Notebook. However, their implementation leaves much to be desired. Whenever I start recording on my laptop, it pegs the cpu, ramping up the fans and draining the battery. It's so bad on my MacBook that I can't even use it in class. I switched from OO to CP Notebook for taking notes in class just because of this feature, but since it doesn't work, I'm coming back to OO. I would love it if the Omni folks could add this feature.

Has anyone also mentioned the ability to lock a given row? If I had my way, it would be a feature that is configurable to either lock\unlock a row upon creation and then a toggle button or check-box to change the setting.

I would tend to use this in the enabled mode and then go back to unlock those rows I need to modify.

I would also think the locking mechanism would apply to the notes for a given row.

Hope others find this useful so it makes the list for OO4.

Speaking of v4 - is there any idea - even rough - in terms of timeline? Surely you guys have a roadmap?

Row locking
 

Aleding,

Just out of curiousity, why could you use the ability to lock certain rows? I assume you mean to "lock out" editing on a row.

Rather than .mac syncing, I would rather see a web app version. I hate being at work, thinking of something that I want to add to a file at home and having to wait til I get home to do it since we use PCs at work. Even if the online web app only included some of the editing capabilities of OO, that would be a great addition.

Styles still need a bit of work. Why can't I drag a style from the inspector's top box for the line specific styles down to the row style below and have it added to the style for that row level?

langUtah,

I would use this basically a a safety feature. I have often times deleted rows of content due to mistake of key strokes and having a locked row feature would help prevent this from happening. I store a lot of key information in the OO3 files I have some wiping out several rows in the blink of an eye is not a good thing.

I had read over a year ago that several others had asked for this and another outlining app has it already (TAO) - just need to get it in here...

maybe a sync to Google Notebook feature ...

Omni Use
 

Many of us seem to be using outliner as a database. I personally do:
Everything I write goes into one outliner document, with no columns.
When I write something new I go through copying related work to my new work area.
I then review what I have.
Brainstorm new areas.
I then separate out the bits I want in my new work from the copied leaving the remainder together.
Write the new sections I want.
I then start organising the information.
Editing until I am happy then I copy into word for grammar checking and then my final publishing program.
My dislikes are mainly concerned with it's failings in following areas they include:
The fixed number of columns (single data format)
Lack of permission flexibility (can always read, write, edit, create and delete whole document), perhaps slit panes left and right one for reading copying the other for editing.
Single view method (the order it is in) I would like to be able to store views (parts of the document that are collapsed or expanded).
create other hierarchies. The ability to create a different index often appeals you could have a master document from which different versions are automatically created for different users.
I often what items in multiple places. Perhaps the hyper links are the answer but they come with problems, bidirectional links or hard links would work better.
Lack of revision control.
Limited to single user access.
Lack of search options.
Hard-links, RC, multi-user would likely require a switch to a file-format more closely resembling a database or file system.

Charles

[QUOTE=amarcou;19929]I would like for OOP4 to sport an audio recording feature like that found in Circus Ponies NoteBook 2.1. In NoteBook, one can turn on the recording feature at the beginning of an outlining session (say, at the beginning of a lecture) and record continuous audio, with each entry in the outline establishing a marker in the audio recording. Click on the audio icon next to any outline entry made in the recorded session and the audio will play from a few seconds before the point at which the outline entry was made.

amarcou[/QUOTE]

I'm employed by a university as a Tech TA that helps other students with tech problems and software suggestions. Based on my experience, if OO would track audio recording with text entered, many students would buy it.

Happy to give input from a student perspective if Omni folks are interested.

J

My biggest concern is just being able to see what is on the screen. With screen resolutions becoming finer, and my eyes becoming weaker I really need control over the color of the text and the size the text is displayed as opposed to the size the text is printed at. This is pretty important since I basically can't see the defaults either on Outliner or OmniFocus. Soft grey letters on a white background may give a designer shivers, but they give me fits.

I hope this change makes it above the line for 4.0

outliner feature I want
 

I bought OmniFocus, but haven't yet learned how to use it. I may never use it if I could filter on OO based on the content of any column. That alone would be huge in order to use OO as a task manager: filter by date, filter by context, etc.

[QUOTE=henri;29439]I may never use it if I could filter on OO based on the content of any column. That alone would be huge in order to use OO as a task manager: filter by date, filter by context, etc.[/QUOTE]

I can't make any promises about future versions, but other people have made similar requests, and we definitely have some ideas on filtering-related things we would like to do. (However, a new, major update to OmniOutliner is not imminent.)

-andrew

[quote=Andrew;29447]I can't make any promises about future versions, but other people have made similar requests, and we definitely have some ideas on filtering-related things we would like to do.[/quote]

Just being able to "find" stuff from any column would fantastic.

[quote](However, a new, major update to OmniOutliner is not imminent.)[/quote]:(

[QUOTE=henri;29591]Just being able to "find" stuff from any column would fantastic.

:([/QUOTE]

You could script a find on a column. I have used this. It works on the topic column. Actually creates a popup list of the column and goes to it. Another column would be a little more work but you could get there....

tell front document of application "OmniOutliner Professional"
set theProjectList to {}
set enumcount to count of enumerations of column "Project"
set x to 1
repeat until x = enumcount
--- set item x of theProjectList to name of enumeration x of column "Project"
copy name of enumeration x of column "Project" to end of theProjectList
set x to x + 1
end repeat
set thePopChoice to choose from list theProjectList with title "Project"
if (thePopChoice is false) then return
set thePopChoice to (item 1 of thePopChoice)
set theRow to first row whose topic contains thePopChoice
hoist theRow
select theRow
end tell

You can also script filtering similar to how KGTD does it. By creating the filters as subtopics in the utility drawers.

[quote=gcrump;29609]You could script a find on a column. I have used this. It works on the topic column. Actually creates a popup list of the column and goes to it. Another column would be a little more work but you could get there....[/quote]

I've done some AppleScripting, but this is over my head.

Finding things in the topic column does not require a script: you can do it by typing in the search box in the utility drawer. I'd love to have a way to do the same for other columns! e.g. a date column.

[QUOTE=henri;29721] I'd love to have a way to do the same for other columns! e.g. a date column.[/QUOTE]

This might be better done with a fake filter. I would assume this is something like a due date? So you would have a bunch of them. Finding on a column (in my opinion) typically works better if there is a finite number of matches. If there can be a bunch then the fake filters work better.

I use the term fake filter to describe what is possible today, and apparently for a while based on this thread, in OO. Basically what you can do is find all the rows that have a column that match a certain criteria based on the value of a column of interest and duplicate them as children of a Heading for your filter. So assuming you wanted your find to be based on items due today, you would create a top level row called "Today" and then duplicate all the rows in your document with a due date column set to today as children of that Top level row.

Let me know if that is what your after and I think I can help... (think being a key word)

[quote=gcrump;29859]what you can do is find all the rows that have a column that match a certain criteria based on the value of a column of interest and duplicate them as children of a Heading for your filter. So assuming you wanted your find to be based on items due today, you would create a top level row called "Today" and then duplicate all the rows in your document with a due date column set to today as children of that Top level row.

Let me know if that is what your after[/quote]

Yes, that's exactly what I need! (I would prefer to just type in a search box in the utility drawer, but since that's not an option...)

Any help you can offer is more than welcome.

[QUOTE=henri;29911]Yes, that's exactly what I need! (I would prefer to just type in a search box in the utility drawer, but since that's not an option...)

Any help you can offer is more than welcome.[/QUOTE]

Glad to help. I certainly have received a lot from this board. I have a script that is pretty close to what you want already. Let me work on it during the day tomorrow and see what I can do... Worst case it will be the week end.

Here is what I have so far... This assume you have a section of your document labled overdue...

tell application "OmniOutliner Professional"
tell front document
set TodaysDate to current date
repeat with theRow in every row
set ThisSection to (first row whose topic starts with "Overdue")
set theTopic to value of cell "Topic" of theRow
set theDuedate to value of cell "Due Date" of theRow
if TodaysDate < (current date) then
set theNewRow to make new row at end of rows of (first child whose topic begins with "Overdue") with properties {topic:theTopic}
set value of cell "Due Date" of theNewRow to theDuedate

end if

end repeat
end tell

Thank you!
 

[FONT=Georgia]Thank you, gcrump! This is fantastic.

Here it is, edited to do what I want:

[B][FONT=Courier New]tell application "OmniOutliner Professional"
tell front document
set TodaysDate to current date
repeat with theRow in every row
if (count children of theRow) = 0 then
set ThisSection to (first row whose topic starts with "Today!")
set theTopic to value of cell "Topic" of theRow
set theDate to value of cell "Date" of theRow
if TodaysDate ≥ theDate then
set theNewRow to make new row at end of rows of (first child whose topic begins with "Today!") with properties {topic:theTopic}
set value of cell "Date" of theNewRow to theDate
set value of cell "Priority" of theNewRow to 1
end if
end if
end repeat
end tell
end tell

[/FONT][/B][FONT=Courier New][FONT=Georgia]This copies rows whose "date" is today, pastes them as children of "Today!", sets the date of the pasted copy as today and its "priority" as 1. It only picks up rows with no children. The reason is that I don't want it to get rows that have today's date because of inheriting it from a child. (For example, if the parent is "shopping" and the child is "buy milk", only "buy milk" is picked up.)

Thanks again, gcrump -- I would not have known how to get started, but what you sent me allowed me to get to what I needed with a little trial and error. Whew!
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

Page-specific column customization would be great. I often want to have a single document that has pages with different columns; currently this is not possible in OO.

[QUOTE=henri;30340][FONT=Georgia]Thank you, gcrump! This is fantastic.

Here it is, edited to do what I want:


Thanks again, gcrump -- I would not have known how to get started, but what you sent me allowed me to get to what I needed with a little trial and error. Whew!
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/QUOTE]

Henri,

Glad I could get you pointed in the right direction. I use this to create filters by who the task is assigned to. Now another thing you can do is use the unique ID of the row and create a "switch" script. That way you can go back to the original row if you just need to change the date or something. That would look like this:

set theRow to first selected row
set theID to the value of cell "OrgID" of theRow
if theID > "" then
set theTwinRow to the first row whose id is theID
set thelevel to the level of theTwinRow
if thelevel = 3 then
hoist ancestor -2 of theTwinRow
else
hoist the parent of theTwinRow
end if
select theTwinRow
End if

This assumes that you have stored the ID of the row in a column called OrgID when you create your Today! Filter.

George

Unfortunately, the script I posted does not work in the morning.

:(

I'm pretty sure that the problem is that "current date" yields a date and a time, and in the morning, this is BEFORE the items that show the same date.

Is there a way to get tomorrow's date? You can't add 1 to "current date" because it's not a number.

I need some sort of AppleScript reference.

[quote=henri;30394]Unfortunately, the script I posted does not work in the morning.

:(

I'm pretty sure that the problem is that "current date" yields a date and a time, and in the morning, this is BEFORE the items that show the same date.
[/quote]

I fixed this -- here's the script:

tell application "OmniOutliner Professional"
tell front document
set TodaysDate to current date
set time of TodaysDate to 86399 -- one second before midnight
set sorting postponed to true
repeat with theRow in every row
if (count children of theRow) = 0 then
set ThisSection to (first row whose topic starts with "Today!")
set theTopic to value of cell "Topic" of theRow
set theDate to value of cell "Date" of theRow
if TodaysDate ≥ theDate then
set theNewRow to make new row at end of rows of (first child whose topic begins with "Today!") with properties {topic:theTopic}
set value of cell "Date" of theNewRow to theDate
set value of cell "Priority" of theNewRow to 1
end if
end if
end repeat
set sorting postponed to false
end tell
end tell

Unfortunately, now it is giving me the qualifying rows three times! I have no idea why.

Also the variable ThisSection doesn't seem to do anything.

OK, I finally got it. Here it is:

tell application "OmniOutliner Professional"
tell front document
set TodaysDate to current date
set time of TodaysDate to 86399 -- one second before midnight
set sorting postponed to true
repeat with theRow in every row
if (count children of theRow) = 0 then
set theTopic to value of cell "Topic" of theRow
set theDate to value of cell "Date" of theRow
if TodaysDate > theDate then
set time of theDate to 86399
set theNewRow to make new row at end of rows of (first child whose topic begins with "Today!") with properties {topic:theTopic}
set value of cell "Date" of theNewRow to theDate
end if
end if
end repeat
set sorting postponed to false
end tell
end tell

[QUOTE=henri;30404]OK, I finally got it. Here it is:

[/QUOTE]

Well don Henri. Another way to do it is to convert the date to a string. I do this to color my Today items to a particular style:

if theDuedate is not missing value then

set todays_date_string to date string of (current date)
set theDuedate_string to date string of (theDuedate)
if todays_date_string = theDuedate_string then

set myStyle to named style ("DueToday")
add myStyle to named styles of style of theRow
end if

end if

[quote=gcrump;30474]Another way to do it is to convert the date to a string. [/quote]

Good idea!

Back on the features of 4.0 and the other Outliner's niche thread. I think as is mentioned in one of those is that many of us use OO as a database of sorts. I use it to manage all my projects, essentially a highly customized Omnifocus and I use it to track my budget.

So what I would like to see in 4.0 in not so much more features especially since it seems Omnigroup has to be careful not to tread on Omnifocus now, but broader expansion of Applescript support. For example as far as I can tell you can not script the sorting of a hoisted section of an outline.

Just a thought...

This has already been mentioned. I would like to create actions on one node to take me to another as in Omnigraffle. I'd also like to easily link from my Omnigraffle documents to nodes in OO and vice versa.

OK, Omnifocus 1.0 is out. Remember OmniOutliner? Anyone?

My apologies if either of these have already been suggested but I didn't read through all 8 pages of this thread.

I use OO constantly, aside from Firefox it is probably the most used program on my computer.... Mostly I use OO to take notes for school and there would be two features that would really help me out.

1. More intuitive style controls.
2. The ability to create embedded tables within an OO document. Currently I make tables in OmniGraffle and then just import them into OO but it would be much more useful if I could edit the tables within OO aswell.

Clones and internal links
 

Please, please, please add the [COLOR="Red"]clones[/COLOR] and internal hyperlinks features to OmniOutliner 4! An easier AppleScript reference would be also helpful.
Lots of thanks. I really wait for those features to come.

PS: And *yes*, please, make it Quick Look'able!

Style control in 3.x is a nightmare.

A full screen (WriteRoom style) mode would be useful where your content is centered on the screen.

3.x lets me change the color of my page, but not some of the elements on that page, so if I try and work with white text on dark gray background, my handles are all black and almost invisible - as is the cursor.

My thoughts
 

- Outlines within outlines; i.e. a row can have its own set of columns and anything else which might be document specific at the moment. (I realize you can fake this with scripts like Kinkless GTD, but it should be built in.)

- Links within and between documents.

- Hooks to trigger custom scripts based on various high level events. (Like adding rows.)

- A native XML rendering mode. This requires some of the above.

- Customization of the shape used for a row handle.

- Embedded applescript formulas. (No need to go full-out spreadsheet, with row/column referencing and such.)

- A way to make command-U not cycle through those 3 underline modes, driving me absolutely batty.

- A native iPhone app; at least for read-only outline navigation.

Oh and did I mention I want this all ... tomorrow? ;-) :-D

Here's what I'm talking about...

[IMG]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj285/ideas_omni/example.jpg[/IMG]

Thanks for considering it! :)

smart quotes smart quotes smart…
 

Hello,

I'd like to get smart quotes support in OO and all other Omni-products. Exporting into keynote etc. just looks funny without them!

Greetings,

Rolf

For all of you requesting cloning support, please reply to this thread: [URL="http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=7489"]http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=7489[/URL]

Thanks!

Nested outlines. Period.
 

I have a long list, but nested outlines is number one. It will take OO to a whole new level. I know, it's probably complex to implement and figuring out an intuitive UI is also a major challange. So what? you have the best outliner on the planet, so you must know a thing or two about innovation.

Forgive me for being blunt, but, if you're not going to implement nested outlines, you can call it OmniOutliner 3.7.

What is a "nested outline" - surely all outlines are nested ?

A google search fails to elucidate. It would be a pity if you did not get what you wanted because no one was sure what you were talking about :-)

Outline within outlines
 

You can see and example if you read the previous messages in this thread (there's a nice example about 5 messages ago). The main limitation of the outline in OO is that you're bound to have the same columns in all levels.

If you could have different details in different levels you could actually give a proper representation of an XML. Taking it one step further, OO4 can be the best tool for editing XMLs. Complete with Schema support... but that's probably for OO5.

I second the observation that the major limitation in OO (for me, at least) is that you have to have the same columns everywhere.

I have an OO document with half a dozen sections each of which would benefit from different columns. Right now, I have to split them into six separate documents in order to do this.

@Robin, what your asking for can also be solved by a feature which is much like the concept of sheets in a workbook in a spreadsheet applications (e.g. OpenOffice Calc, Apple Numbers). The sections will be like different individual outlines, each with its' own format.

Look at ECCO Pro !
 

For me not being able to filter the view by column values is a serious limitation. I started by converting all my ECCO Pro data to OO Pro and after a while I switches back (I run it in VMware Fusion). OO Pro is a great product and I like how polished the UI is but for raw power ECCO Pro is still king! Not bad for a product that was abandoned in 1997! If you want OO Pro 4 to be a true brain extender, i.e., to be able to effortlessely slice, dice, filter, and view data in all sorts of ways (kind of like your brain works) look at ECCO Pro!
Cheers

Absolutely agree about Ecco. It's so good that it kept me from switching to Mac for years. Despite having been discontinued and left unsupported for over a decade, Ecco Pro is still the most intriguingly well-designed, powerful, customizable and useful piece of software I've ever had the pleasure to use. And I used it in many different ways.

The Ecco features I'd love to see in OO include the ability to use different outline structures (different columns, different style sets, etc.) for different outlines in the same file ... the ability to filter an outline based on column data ... the ability to see the same data in different configurations (the way OmniFocus does) ... and that's just for starters.

Yes, an OO that provides some of the flexibility of Ecco would be very welcome indeed. There was nothing quite like Ecco, but there should be.

Excel export -- include numbering and indents
 

I second this feature. I spend a lot of my time in Excel, indenting and cleaning up the Excel file before passing it to my clients. This time can easily be saved.

[QUOTE=cents;13935]I'd really like to see the following 4 things for version 4:[LIST][*]The OmniOutliner page inside the Print dialog should remember settings between print jobs.[*]Export to Excel: I know the export plug-in by Omni but it's not the right thing for my needs. It would be nice if every indention could flow in a new row inside the Excel file. For example: Entries of the third level in OmniOutliner would be in the C column in Excel. This would lead to the same tree structure as it is in the OO file. OO notes should get saved in comments in the Excel file (as they are with the current plug-in). Advantage: I could use OmniOutliner as my main tool for outlining structures and quickly hand over an Excel file to a Windows co-worker prior to my holidays.[*]Export as HTML should optionally be possible without notes.[*]Expot (as HTML, Excel, whatever) should also be possible for the selected rows of the document only.[/LIST][/QUOTE]

Integration with Keynote
 

I work as a teacher and use Keynote to create presentations, I also enter notes about what I'm going to say (so I don't forget anything and also remember things for the next time I'm giving the course) etc. So I tend to keep all my notes about the course in the Keynote files.

Unfortunately Keynotes note handling ability isn't that good so I've been looking for something better for note handling for years but haven't found anything I like.

So for me a killer feature would be if OO in some way could tightly interact with Keynote and handle the notes. What I envision is that I would do all the slide stuff in Keynote, then I would be able to use OO to bring up a view where I could see the slides as pictures and then be able to use OOs ordinary outlining capabilities.

When I later do the actual presentation I would see the OO notes in the presenter note view.

I assume this isn't possible to do but it would be really really really nice if it worked.

Why don't you do it the opposite way round like I do. OO will export to a very basic set of keynote slides that you can then change the theme on and sort out.
Write the material for the presentation in OO with your notes, then export to keynote for massaging. Will that not do what you want?

No, simply because I tend to do the graphics first and then add the description + that I edit the presentation after it's "completed". I've tried to create the outline in OO and then export but it didn't work for me. I basically need to edit the same document (and yes, it's really keynote that should be improved)

Ah, OK ... I guess the difference is that I produce any graphics I require in OmniGraffle, which I can import into OO if I need, and which I copy and paste into Keynote (and LinkBack works which is great).

The only other suggestion I have, then, is make your slides in Keynote ... export them to PDF, which you can import to OO and do your outlining. I don't know how that would work in terms of getting it all back into Keynote with the OO text as presentation notes, though ... or rather, whether there would be an easy way of doing it.