OmniOutliner 4 - Release Date?
 

Hi,


I know the team is most probably working hard on OmniOutliner 4, but I would like to point out why some people are really hoping to get a new version soon.

Right now, there is no note taking app for Mac with a mobile client that fulfils the requirements of knowledge based notetaking as an outliner app would solve the problem.

Of course, there is Evernote. Evernote is nice. There is an app for mobile clients and you can sync your notes. But there is no real structure in Evernote. Evernote is working nice, if you have a journal, but you can't really use it for knowledgebased notes. (See also [url]http://www.onenotereview.com/evernote-vs-onenote[/url]).

On a Mac, an outliner solves this problem of knowledge based notes. But with OmniOutliner 3, you miss the sync. That's why OmniOutliner 3 is no real solution, if you want to sync your documents to your mobile client.

Most other notetaking apps are lacking a good app for mobile clients too by the way.

If you want to use knowledge based notetaking apps right now, you probably have to install MS OneNote. This means getting the OneNote iPhone Client and to install Parallels, Windows and Office on your Mac. This will cost you around 400 Euros and I think it is a little bit complicated for just a notetaking app.

With the emerging marked of cloud applications, many people are really waiting for a good notetaking apps to emerge that could replace OneNote and they would be willing also to pay for it. OmniOutliner 4 could be exactly the product we all are waiting for. Now more than ever!

So why do I think a lot of people would trust OmniGroup. My answer is simple: Just have a look on the existing apps. If a company can create apps such as OmniFocus with such a brilliant iPad app then this company can create a sophisticated solution for notetaking with mobile sync too.

My question to the team is: As someone who loves OmniGroup products, when does OmniOutliner 4 will be released. We all are waiting for this product to come :)

Stefan

Stefan, a question:

if Omni knew when they were going to release it, but had for some reason chosen not to share this information (and don't you think they would like to be able to say when it is going to be?), why do you think they would then reveal that information to you, simply because you asked nicely? As I look at it, the lack of an answer means either a) we just don't know, or b) we have business reasons for not making a prediction, or c) all of the above. Note the absence of d) we're just waiting for someone to ask :-)

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;102937]Stefan, a question:

if Omni knew when they were going to release it, but had for some reason chosen not to share this information (and don't you think they would like to be able to say when it is going to be?), why do you think they would then reveal that information to you, simply because you asked nicely? As I look at it, the lack of an answer means either a) we just don't know, or b) we have business reasons for not making a prediction, or c) all of the above. Note the absence of d) we're just waiting for someone to ask :-)[/QUOTE]

Sometimes it is worth trying ;)

The worst thing that can happen is to get no answer or just an answer that they can't comment on this question. :)

Stefan

We don't yet know how long the remaining work on OmniOutliner 4 will take to complete. Once we know that, we'll be able to tell folks when the app will ship. :-)

I am really looking forward to this release (whenever it is). OO is probably 80% of my computer use (I am in law school). Hopefully the the underlining "feature" is changed or changeable.

Also looking forward to this release. OO was one of the deciding factors when I moved from Windows to OS X. It's nice to have it running on my iPad, but sometimes it's hard for me to believe that I'm still using the same basic Mac version as that I used seven years ago....

[QUOTE=Malcolm;103266]Also looking forward to this release. OO was one of the deciding factors when I moved from Windows to OS X. It's nice to have it running on my iPad, but sometimes it's hard for me to believe that I'm still using the same basic Mac version as that I used seven years ago....[/QUOTE]

omni has a growing reputation as a slow developer. it's quite amazing following the various management comments - sometimes going back 2, 3 or more years - about how work is already completed, or well into development on the various product version upgrades...

i wonder if they use their own products for workflow management. could explain a few things - they're not the most integrated set of tools on the planet. and still... here we are, omnifans. i despair sometimes. welcome to the omnivoid.

[QUOTE=elektroglide;104473]...

i wonder if they use their own products for workflow management. could explain a few things - they're not the most integrated set of tools on the planet. and still... here we are, omnifans. i despair sometimes. welcome to the omnivoid.[/QUOTE]

Well, it is not Omnis fault that we are sometimes just hyped by any new fancy stuff that gets released before anybody ever imagined what and how this stuff could be used.
Sometimes at work you don't have time to play around with glitzy software, but you just have to use the right tool - the one you know, you trust, and you are efficient with. That's a secret of productivity.
Take your time.

[QUOTE=tbo;104496]Well, it is not Omnis fault that we are sometimes just hyped by any new fancy stuff that gets released before anybody ever imagined what and how this stuff could be used.
Sometimes at work you don't have time to play around with glitzy software, but you just have to use the right tool - the one you know, you trust, and you are efficient with. That's a secret of productivity.
Take your time.[/QUOTE]

Sometimes there is an application, however, that you know, you trust, and that you are efficient with but it lacks features you [B]know[/B] could be used effectively. That is exactly the OP's situation (and I imagine quite a few other people's). And when this is the case, the sooner the feature is released, the sooner the user can be more efficient. In other words: Omni take your time to make it right but the sooner you finish, the sooner your user's can be more productive (and not waste time on forums looking for a hope that the product they have grown to love is making meaningful progress).

[QUOTE=elektroglide;104473]omni has a growing reputation as a slow developer. it's quite amazing following the various management comments - sometimes going back 2, 3 or more years - about how work is already completed, or well into development on the various product version upgrades...

i wonder if they use their own products for workflow management. could explain a few things - they're not the most integrated set of tools on the planet. and still... here we are, omnifans. i despair sometimes. welcome to the omnivoid.[/QUOTE]

You may have a point here—some of the Omni software may feel overdue for an update—but I very much appreciate the company's commitment to quality. I wish Apple itself had a similar kind of commitment, for example, considering how half-baked and beta-ish so much of their released software is. A very large percentage of MacOS users wait until version x.4 or x.5 before upgrading (and much as an OS is immensely more complex a project that a task manager or an outliner, the comparison is valid in terms of priorities). From widespread WiFi issues in Lion to battery issues with iOS 5—not to mention the MobileMe blunder when it was first released—they all too often seem to release things even if they are blatantly immature. Not so with Omni. Maybe it is a matter of competitive pressures—Omni does not have Google or Microsoft to compete against—but at any rate I appreciate the emphasis on rock-solid stability, much as I am eagerly looking to OmniOutliner 4 myself.

I understand that it's been a long time since we charged our customers for an upgrade, and that some people are still waiting for specific features that we don't have planned for a 3.x update. But OmniOutliner 3 certainly hasn't sat still over the last 7 years, or even for the last year—for example, OmniOutliner 3 introduced support for Auto Save and Versions and full screen mode on the day Lion shipped.

We've been constantly making major improvements to OmniOutliner 3 for its entire life cycle—starting with adding Intel support on the day Intel processors shipped. (If you remember back to that transition, can you think of another third-party developer that added Intel support for free—rather than charging for it in a major upgrade—and that had Intel support available on day one? Or even within the first few months?)

Between that early Intel update and our most recent Lion updates, we've also added support for Spotlight (on the day Spotlight shipped), dictionary lookups, LinkBack (for editable embedded content from OmniGraffle and other apps), Automator workflows, Quick Look (both for outlines themselves, and for their embedded attachments), custom toolbars on specific documents, Word 2008 export, saving unsaved documents even when the system crashes, revamped inspectors and unified window toolbars—and quite a few AppleScript features. (And that's not counting all the work that has happened underneath the hood: bug fixes, performance improvements, security updates, operating system compatibility updates, exporter updates, and so on.)

I'm glad that folks are looking forward to OmniOutliner 4—we are too!—and I know that it's been such a long wait for people wanting some of the features we've implemented for it. But please appreciate that a big reason that OmniOutliner 3 has continued to be so useful for as long as it has is because we've been giving it a lot of attention the whole time: it hasn't just been sitting still.

[QUOTE=Ken Case;104773]If you remember back to that transition, can you think of another third-party developer that added Intel support for free—rather than charging for it in a major upgrade—and that had Intel support available on day one? Or even within the first few months?[/QUOTE]
I'm not shy about voicing criticism (see my previous post!) but I have to say that in this regard you are #1 in my book, and there are some other third-party software vendors out there who may not be getting more money from me any time soon! I'm especially thinking of a certain vendor which for years tried to obfuscate the fact that they were not shipping Intel-based software by making a Universal version of their launcher application, but leaving the software that did all the work PowerPC only. Naturally, Intel support could only be provided in a new major release (read: major upgrade price), and not available until the Lion timeframe!

[QUOTE=Ken Case;104773]... a big reason that OmniOutliner 3 has continued to be so useful for as long ...[/QUOTE]

It continues to be [B]the[/B] most useful single piece of software on my machine, not least because it has a really excellent Applescript library, through which it can be reshaped to do more or less anything ...

(FWIW, on price elasticity and upgrade intervals – I would personally have been quite happy to pay higher levels of rent on it over the last few years – I hope that a generous approach to these things hasn't made it sub-economic, or limited the number of hires that could be afforded).

I admire the patience that you all seem to have. I have made it a habit to look every 3 or 4 months on the status of OO for Mac. It's hard for me to understand how is it possible that it takes so long. I am now confused but I have the sense that's been more than a year late than the original date?

I wish we had a better outliner for mac. I have grown accustomed to Evernote for most of my work, but do miss the outliner functionality.

Maybe some day...

Waiting for zoom
 

I too have been waiting for the OO4 update for over 4 years, ever since I first switched from PC to Mac. I was hoping to use OO back then, but the lack of a zoom feature made it unusable for me. I check back on these forums often and have even bought OO for iPad, as well as all versions of OF. There was inference made on these forums that OO4 would have zoom implemented, but the development pace of OO4 seems to be glacial, even though I am aware that OG has bettered OO3. I hope we are getting close to the finish line, but I wonder...

[QUOTE=Yata-Hey;105108]I too have been waiting for the OO4 update for over 4 years, ever since I first switched from PC to Mac. I was hoping to use OO back then, but the lack of a zoom feature made it unusable for me.[/QUOTE]

I would also find oo3 unusable without a simple zooming script which toggles between screen size and print size, but with such a script I find that the issue of display font size simply doesn't arise for me in practice ...

[CODE]property pScreenSize : 16
property pPrintSize : 12
property pBackColor : {65535, 65535, 65535} -- {64928, 63055, 60274}


-- OmniOutliner Professional
on run
ToggleSize(pScreenSize, false)
end run

-- Optionally apply a variant screen size directly through LaunchBar
on handle_string(strSize)
try
set lngSize to strSize as integer
on error
return
end try

ToggleSize(lngSize, true)
end handle_string

on ToggleSize(lngSize, blnScreen)
tell application id "OOut"
if (count of documents) < 1 then return
tell style of front document

-- temporarily increase the font size in screen mode
tell attribute "font-size"
if blnScreen then
set pScreenSize to lngSize
set value to pScreenSize
else
set blnScreen to (value is pPrintSize)
if blnScreen then
set value to pScreenSize
else
set value to pPrintSize
end if
end if
end tell

-- temporarily lower the the background contrast in screen mode
tell attribute "text-background-color"
if blnScreen then
set value to pBackColor
else
set value to default value
end if
end tell
end tell
end tell
end ToggleSize
[/CODE]

Thanks
 

Thanks - I'll give it a try!

[QUOTE=Yata-Hey;105206]Thanks - I'll give it a try![/QUOTE]

I just added the script. It should solve your problem.

Thanks, RobTrew.

Is there a list somewhere of the current changes that will appear in OO4? I really, really like OO. It's what I build and maintain my talks and lectures in, which as an university professor is a good chunk of what I get paid to do. At the same time, things like View Zoom seem increasingly weird not to have. I have recently consolidated a whole host of my workflow in DevonThink, and while it's not my ideal app for writing, I am wondering if I wouldn't be better off trying to use it in some fashion. If I had a sense that OO4 was going to offer some of the features I have been looking for, mostly having to do with better view and print options, then I could more easily plan to take advantage of those features. If they remain off the table, well, then, I would know it's time to move.

I still depend on OmniGraffle and OmniFocus, so it's not like I'm leaving OmniGroup behind, but simply letting a venerable application go its way while I go mine.

[QUOTE=StefanPapp;102935]Hi,

Right now, there is no note taking app for Mac with a mobile client that fulfils the requirements of knowledge based notetaking as an outliner app would solve the problem.

Stefan[/QUOTE]

Stefan,

Would you mind elaborating on what you mean by a knowledge based notetaking app? I'm very curious! Thanks

[QUOTE=Tinchohs;105086] I have made it a habit to look every 3 or 4 months on the status of OO for Mac. [/QUOTE]

Yes, me too - in fact, I have a task in OmniFocus that triggers every three months, reminding me to check on OminOutliner 4!

So, uh, 2012 has got to be the year, right? Dare we say, first half of 2012?

Adding an AppleScript to OmniOutliner
 

I'm using the standard version of OmniOutliner. How can I add the AppleScript below to OmniOutliner? I've searched the manual and couldn't find that information.

Thanks,
Howard

[QUOTE=RobTrew;105114]I would also find oo3 unusable without a simple zooming script which toggles between screen size and print size, but with such a script I find that the issue of display font size simply doesn't arise for me in practice ...

[CODE]property pScreenSize : 16
property pPrintSize : 12
property pBackColor : {65535, 65535, 65535} -- {64928, 63055, 60274}


-- OmniOutliner Professional
on run
ToggleSize(pScreenSize, false)
end run

-- Optionally apply a variant screen size directly through LaunchBar
on handle_string(strSize)
try
set lngSize to strSize as integer
on error
return
end try

ToggleSize(lngSize, true)
end handle_string

on ToggleSize(lngSize, blnScreen)
tell application id "OOut"
if (count of documents) < 1 then return
tell style of front document

-- temporarily increase the font size in screen mode
tell attribute "font-size"
if blnScreen then
set pScreenSize to lngSize
set value to pScreenSize
else
set blnScreen to (value is pPrintSize)
if blnScreen then
set value to pScreenSize
else
set value to pPrintSize
end if
end if
end tell

-- temporarily lower the the background contrast in screen mode
tell attribute "text-background-color"
if blnScreen then
set value to pBackColor
else
set value to default value
end if
end tell
end tell
end tell
end ToggleSize
[/CODE][/QUOTE]

See this post and substitute OmniOutliner wherever you see OmniFocus:

[url]http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=7453[/url]

I too am seriously frustrated with the delays in getting OO4, as some of the features they've suggested would be in it are things I could really use.

I'm wondering if the delay has to do with the fact that the outlining engine for OO is also at the foundation of other OmniGroup apps, such as OmniFocus and OmniPlan. So it's not just a question of getting a new OmniOutliner out the door ... every change they make, every feature they add also has to work in their other apps. If that's the case, the complexity involved is a lot greater than simply creating OO4.

It's the only thing I can think of to explain the fact that Omni has been talking about OO4 for (I think) four years now, and we still don't have it. If it were easy, or even moderately difficult, it'd be out by now.

[QUOTE=pvonk;105613]Yes, me too - in fact, I have a task in OmniFocus that triggers every three months, reminding me to check on OminOutliner 4![/QUOTE]

Haha, me too. It's seriously overdue. The iPad app really doesn't do much without a proper desktop sync. Hoping OmniGroup goes iCloud++ in OO4.

Oh my, [URL="http://www.omnigroup.com/blog/entry/the_challenge_of_syncing_omnioutliner"]an update[/URL] I haven't read.

Upgrading to OmniOutliner 4.0
 

I know it has been a long wait for OmniOutliner 4, but at least the upgrade is free for anyone who purchased OmniOutliner 3 after May 13, 2011.

[url]http://forums.omnigroup.com/showpost.php?p=97278&postcount=3[/url]

[Text from the link below]

[COLOR="DimGray"][INDENT]Ken Case
Omni

2011-05-13, 05:29 AM

Quote:[INDENT]Originally Posted by psidnell
[COLOR="Gray"]My question is: if I buy OO3.X now (cos I'm impatient) and OO4 comes out in a month, will it likely be a free or paid upgrade.[/COLOR][/INDENT]
We typically don't pre-announce anything about pricing (because we don't decide on it until we know what we've built!), but I will say that [COLOR="Red"]anyone purchasing OmniOutliner 3 at this point will receive a free upgrade to OmniOutliner 4 (whether they purchase through our online store or the App Store).[/COLOR]
Last edited by Ken Case; 2011-05-13 at 06:19 AM.. Reason: added a missing pronoun[/INDENT][/COLOR]

Another 5-6 months since my last check in. Second half of 2012?

OmniOutliner 4? Does the 4 stand for 2014?

[QUOTE=pvonk;111237]OmniOutliner 4? Does the 4 stand for 2014?[/QUOTE]

i think it means 4ever

OO4 has been "in development" for 5 years now. I'm about to give up on Omni. Dear OmniGroup, please say something about plans for OO4, or at least assure us that you are still there.

It's in public beta.

[url]http://www.omnigroup.com/blog/entry/omnioutliner-4-test-is-ready[/url]