OmniOutliner's niche?
 

I don't know if I'm wasting my time, it's been almost 3 years since the last major update, maybe OO is considered feature-complete. But I'm just trying to keep the discussion alive.

But as I was looking at other information organizer apps, it occurs to me that few if any are able to combine the nice meta-data features of a database with a writing environment on par with OO. Most are great at organizing at the file level (or at the level of a title for a block of text), but OO lets you take notes with a structure that allows you to reorganize at the text level much easier. Unfortunately, I've got a lot of stuff in my outlines that are just not easy to organize at a higher level, particularly if you're not using columns (I should probably try to use columns more, but that is just not a natural part of my note-taking workflow).

Anyway, if we had some of the meta-data features of apps like Scrivener, Journler, etc. combined with the capability of a real outliner, you've got my dream app (not that anyone cares!)

Looked at another way...
 

This is also an argument for removing these features from the DB/metadata apps and making them very good at just that, with very easy editing, creation and display of file links. This would allow you to use whatever note-taking apps you wanted.

I've held that OmniFocus should have very smooth OO integration and file linking rather than its own note-taking features, but that hasn't gone much anywhere.

Omnioutliner vs Scrivener
 

[QUOTE=FredH;29243]
Anyway, if we had some of the meta-data features of apps like Scrivener, Journler, etc. combined with the capability of a real outliner, you've got my dream app (not that anyone cares!)[/QUOTE]

I'm interested to understand more about the differences between Omnioutliner and Scrivener. I've got the former, but not the latter. I see that you can import and export between them. Where would you see their strengths and weaknesses? Why would you use one rather than the other?

[QUOTE=fustbariclation;29664]I'm interested to understand more about the differences between Omnioutliner and Scrivener. I've got the former, but not the latter. I see that you can import and export between them. Where would you see their strengths and weaknesses? Why would you use one rather than the other?[/QUOTE]

I've tried Scrivener briefly, as I said it's not a direct competitor to OO, it's really designed to organize a single writing project that is split up into a number of sections. To the extent it could be used more for general note-taking (which is how I use OO), I'm not really sure yet.

But what I'm particularly interested in is its ability to use and create metadata for each entry, attaching keywords (basically tags), assigning values to other categories ("label" and "status"), modification dates (although I'm not sure if you can use these dates for sorting), etc. Such metadata allows you to organize your entries in ways that are not possible in OO. Of course this is not unique to Scrivener and most organizer apps have moved in this direction in some way.

In short, please give us tags and smart folders!

Scrivener is a wonderful application for writers. From my own perspective as a freelance journalist, OmniOutliner and Scrivener complement each other beautifully in my workflow.

I sketch down rough ideas in OO, organising, re-arranging, hammering, bending into a shape that seems about right - i then export the outline into scrivener. Scrivener takes an outline and allows you to flesh it out into much bigger documents. It's a tool for writers - of any kind - school assignments to nobel literature prize winner wannabes. the full screen/typewriter scroll thing is a joy. Would anyone want to write a novel for example, in OO? You can in Scrivener. I love the simplicity and flexibility of OO. It's the first piece of software i turn to when i've got something new to do and when (or if... ) it gets upgraded to 4.0 i dread to think what kind of bloat-ridden monster it could become if all the suggestions on the 'suggestions for 4.0' thread are taken up. I'm desperate to see a zoom view option tho'.

How do you export your OO outline into Scrivener? I use Nisus to write my most of my papers since OO is just not setup for this even though Omni claims you [i]can[/i] write your next book in OO. It would be a bit of a pain without a lot of work towards BookEnds support, more exporting options for work in NWP/Mellel etc.

I have owned Scrivener for some time, well over a year I believe, and I have just started using it for my larger - involved projects. This is very intriguing to me that you exort your outline. I wish there was a ay to expor the outline into mini-documents in Scrivener but so far I can just import it as a RTF file and go from there.

I do want to say that OO is [b]the[/b] note taking software I use, period. But there is room for improvement and I feel that Omni as of late has been more interested in developing new lines of programs that fill needed gaps and bring in money, but have let OO and OG slide a bit on new innovations.



[QUOTE=kened;31127]Scrivener is a wonderful application for writers. From my own perspective as a freelance journalist, OmniOutliner and Scrivener complement each other beautifully in my workflow.

I sketch down rough ideas in OO, organising, re-arranging, hammering, bending into a shape that seems about right - i then export the outline into scrivener. Scrivener takes an outline and allows you to flesh it out into much bigger documents. It's a tool for writers - of any kind - school assignments to nobel literature prize winner wannabes. the full screen/typewriter scroll thing is a joy. Would anyone want to write a novel for example, in OO? You can in Scrivener. I love the simplicity and flexibility of OO. It's the first piece of software i turn to when i've got something new to do and when (or if... ) it gets upgraded to 4.0 i dread to think what kind of bloat-ridden monster it could become if all the suggestions on the 'suggestions for 4.0' thread are taken up. I'm desperate to see a zoom view option tho'.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=dude;34884]How do you export your OO outline into Scrivener[/QUOTE]

One approach is accessible from Fletcher Penney's [URL="http://fletcherpenney.net/MultiMarkdown_and_OmniOutliner"]MultiMarkdown[/URL] site.

Scrivener imports MultiMarkdown formatted outlines, and you can export from Omnioutliner to MultiMarkdown format if you:[LIST=1][*]copy Fletcher's [B]Markdown.ooxsl[/B] to
[B]~/Library/Application Support/OmniOutliner 3/Plug-In[/B][*]restart 003[*]choose the [B]MultiMarkdown (text)[/B] format from File>Export[/LIST]
Once you have created a Markdown text file version of your outline, you can import it into Scrivener through [B]File>Import>MultiMarkdown file ...[/B]

i just saw your post dude. what you say is quite correct. all i meant was that i export my outline as a rich text file as a single document.

i've done some rooting around and found this: it's a plugin for OO that will export an outline as MMD, and scrivener will import it, keeping the outline structure intact.

i haven't tried it yet, but here's the link: [URL="http://fletcherpenney.net/MultiMarkdown_and_OmniOutliner"]http://fletcherpenney.net/MultiMarkdown_and_OmniOutliner[/URL]

oops,

somebody got there before me ...

just installed the plugins - they work perfectly - it would be great if we could just open outliner files in scrivener or do a direct export, but to be honest this works so well, that i can't see it being a problem. kudos to fletcher penny