OmniFocus for iPad interface feedback
 

Pretty short, but I hate to say it: the interface looks kind of odd to me from what I can see. I'm not sure about the way you show the nested folders/projects. I hope you have enough testers who have confirmed that this works for them. Personally, I'd rather have the structure separated from the items list...

Thank you Ken, for posting this sneak peek, and I definitely want to see more screenshots before I formulate a real opinion, but I have to agree with bnz. My first thought upon seeing the sneak peek was that it looked really blocky, and I thought it was just a test UI.

However, I'm the first to admit that a 4 second video isn't enough time to pass judgement, so like I said, I'm eager for more!

Thanks Ken for this sneak peek. I've been waiting for Omnifocus for iPad for a while now. I must admit that the contrast between the background and the nested folders is rather too strong for me at the moment, but it was only a short video. It will be good to have the ability to use all the added screen estate of the iPad.

iPad UI
 

I have to say I was expecting something more along the lines of OF for the Mac. What was shown was sort of confusing. Perhaps that will be cleaned up before release?

[QUOTE=mhedstrom;77892]I have to agree with bnz. My first thought upon seeing the sneak peek was that it looked really blocky, and I thought it was just a test UI.

However, I'm the first to admit that a 4 second video isn't enough time to pass judgement, so like I said, I'm eager for more![/QUOTE]

yes I am with you lets see more but from what I see it is looking disappointing. Ken will you be posting more videos?

I agree with others. I hope this comes across as constructive criticism.

It must be something about being a Mac user, but I crave good looking UIs. Evernote over Devonthink, Chrome over Firefox, and frankly, Things (Mac) over Omnifocus (Mac) with regards to UI.

Thanks to everyone that's posting here - we're seeing a number of [URL="http://twitter.com/naoise_g/statuses/15203582582"]positive[/URL] [URL="http://twitter.com/eggrollstan/statuses/15195873963"]responses[/URL] [URL="http://twitter.com/Dbzm4n/statuses/15193948195"]too[/URL], but we'd love to get a better idea what isn't working for folks.

We can't promise that each suggestion will go into the app, but if there are common threads running through the feedback, we'd love to take that into account. FWIW, the most common reaction seems to be relief that the app is actually on the way. :-)

If I may offer a suggestion about interface feedback - by itself, "I don't like it" doesn't give us much to go on. Any additional info folks can provide here or at [email]omnifocus-ipad@omnigroup.com[/email], would help the team quite a lot as they finish their work.

Is it the darker color scheme vs. the Mac/iPhone apps? If it doesn't look like what you expected, what were you hoping for? Feedback like that will help the team quite a lot.

I'll separate this out into a dedicated thread, but wanted to post here before doing so. Thanks very much, everyone - we really appreciate the help and your passion for OmniFocus.

[QUOTE=emck;77903]Ken will you be posting more videos?[/QUOTE]

Yep, more video is on the way. :-)

[QUOTE=Brian;77905]If I may offer a suggestion about interface feedback - by itself, "I don't like it" doesn't give us much to go on.[/QUOTE]

Good point, but Im no designer. I know it when I see it :)

I'll post some thoughts that jump out for discussion here as well.

-The Folder list when the video starts looks confusing. Maybe move them closer together?
-The icons at the top look like they are different sizes and are not positioned correctly.
-"Inbox 0" seems kinda bland. Add slick looking icon here?
-I look at this next to Things for iPad and there's no comparison.

I say these mean things with the utmost respect. :cool:

[QUOTE=Cameron;77908]Good point, but Im no designer. I know it when I see it :)

[/QUOTE]

Same here, but I'll try to verbalize my "it looks blocky" statement.

I guess it's like Cameron said, where as Mac users we crave good looking UIs. The entire projects list on the right side looks like something that I, with no design experience, would do because I don't know any better. The left sidebar looks awesome, and I really like that, but the projects list just looks...boring. I'm not sure what I expect because I'm definitely in the same "know it when I see it" area, but I just expected something better looking.

It does look like someone took a cardboard physical mock-up and just moved it wholesale over to the iPad.

I wish I could offer something constructive, but design skills are not my strength. I can only say when I don't like something as-is, and that's the case here, with the (very) short preview.

Hopefully constructive
 

First, let me say that I'm a fan of your products and am really excited about OF. I know that it's going to be great and appreciate the chance to see a rough draft. I also reserve the right to rescind any comment I make based on future screenshots/previews.

For myself, the biggest shortcoming of the iPhone version is the awkward way in which one has to conduct weekly reviews. On the other hand, I love the desktop interface for reviews. I review exclusively on the desktop and that's no problem. I do, however, feel that being able to leave the laptop at home and conduct a desktop-style review on my iPad sitting on the patio at my local coffee shop would be dreamy.

It seems like you've simply "unstacked" the first couple of screens from the iPhone version meaning it feels much closer to that than the desktop. I'd love to see an interface where the items that are currently situated in the left frame appear as icons across the top or maybe in keeping with the developing iPad design aesthetic, along the bottom. The left and right frames could then function more like the desktop version.

The other interface quality I love about the desktop is drag and drop processing of inbox items. I still struggle to remember how to turn an inbox item into a new project in the iPhone edition.

Perhaps there are programing reasons these aren't possible and I defer to you all on this.

In terms of aesthetics, I'd like a little color in the icons. Subtle and muted, not really popping and loud.

Side note: I can't proof read this because the text entry box doesn't scroll on my iPad.

Someone here just pointed out that I hadn't made it clear that what's in the video is the [I]current[/I] state of the iPad app, not necessarily the [I]finished[/I] state of the app.

I am not promising that every change folks ask for will be incorporated into the application, of course. Just making clear that sending your feedback is not a waste of time. :-)

Wow!
 

That looks awesome! Nice clean, distraction free interface.

Thanks for sharing that with us! Worth waiting a few more days for?

Perhaps in a couple of weeks time I will stop playing with this thing and finally start Getting some Things Done!

I'm in agreement with a previous poster, it looks to "blocky" for me (if that's a word...) I like the UI that is on my Mac, a single line to denote an action and a grey bar to identify the project. That way there can be many projects and actions listed on a page instead of a half dozen or so blocks to identify both projects and actions. I would prefer the iPad version to look more like the Mac version instead of the iPhone version. There should be enough space on the iPad display to offer a single line for each action, color coded the way they are on the Mac, but I don't know if the OS could handle whatever code would be needed.

The only downside to my suggestion is the touch screen interface. Putting actions in small lines may make it difficult for those of us (myself included) with large fingers. Even so, if you were to make each line the size of what is on the iPhone version now there would be room for many, many projects/actions on the iPad with plenty of space between. I just don't care for the "block" look, looks too much like Things.

Let's be blunt. It is ugly. It is off-putting in its ugliness. It's disappointing when you should be wowing customers. Both Things and that other ToDo app that is selling well are beautiful to look at, but this strikes me as a quick port of the iphone app and I wonder why on Earth it took so long. There certainly is no reimagination of GTD on the iPad.

Someone once said of a well designed bridge that it must have both function *and* form, i.e., it must support weight, of course, but that it must also be beautiful if only so people form an emotional bond to it and want to maintain it. There is no question that you guys do function very well but you don't seem to respect form as much as the other guys. Customers intuit quality from good form design and the visual cluckiness of your iPad app as represented in the video does not project quality. There are going to be customers buying based on screenshots who will choose the other apps because of the attention to form detail both in layout and at the pixel level, which is lacking here. Watch how much Steve Jobs points out all the little visual design details when he introduced OS X for the first time (it's on YouTube); he told his team he wanted the user to want to lick the screen - is your current design that emotionally engaging? No, it's pedestrian - it looks like a Windows XP app, like Windows Explorer. You haven't even reworked the icons.

As for reimaging GTD say for example some projects are more important to me than others. Is there a visual cue for this so I will zero in on these projects? Maybe these icons could be larger than less important projects. Maybe if there is a lot of actions, the project icon can take on a stack appearance like the iPhoto stack icons in iPad vary depending how many pictures are inside. I've always wanted a better visual cue for an action that I've allotted a lot of time to as oppose to a little time - even with the hr, min designations, it doesn't convey visually the way say fonts metacommunicate more than the written word can. Wow in a wow-like font says wow better than wow in helvetica. Finding ways to visually metacommunicate an idea like "important project" or "day consuming action" aids your user in ways that yet another line in an outline do not.

I understand that Omnifocus came out of the outliner app, but I think that metaphor is hampering real, constuctive reimagining. Are you in the outlining business or the GTD business?

I agree with most people here, it really doesn´t look good, and it certainly doesn´t feel like much love or care was put into the UI.

If we start with the left region:
When you have this HUUUGE box showing the number of stuff in the inbox, why is the text "Inbox" put so close to the top of the edge? you have plenty of space and it seems really weird that you didn´t put it a bit lower so that it would have 5-7 px of space above it.
Why is it necessary to show day and date here? It looks like an extra element, that just adds to the clunky look.
The labels for the sections here really ought to be in bold here and possibly 1 or 2 px bigger, they look too weak here as they are.
The giant "add" button and the inbox field is sooo huge and really looks like the designer here had a lot of space to fill out.

Top bar:
Why you decided to separate the black top bar I really don´t understand, it´s a very strange design decision.
The buttons are in different sizes, just compare the "move to" button and the "plus" button. It is so basic to at least make sure that they should be the same size.
You ought to move the search field 1 px down so that it´s in the center.

Now the main section:
You waste so much space here with those boxes.
On top of that it makes it look very "blocky"
I really don´t get your arrows, the one pointing downwards probably shows that it´s open, but what does the one pointing upwards mean? That it´s closed? In the case it should be pointing to the right.
Why are those icons placed so close to the left edge? Why is the font used here so huge?
Why not use the space to show people how many items there are within each folder or project?
As far as I can see, you have added a note to the task "Lay out sidebar items" and then you actually try to show the first words there. that looks completly odd as it really clutters up the way it looks, why not add a note icon to the actions that have notes attached?
I would suggest to make the action title bold and a bit smaller.
---------------------

Those are the things I can say about the 4 sec. preview.

I must say I´m very dissappointed with the way you decided to do the iPad app. This was an opportunity to do an app that is as beautiful as it is functional, but truth to be told it looks like something designed by an engineer on a lunch break.
It is clear that no one has paid any attention to details here, and this layout simply isn´t good enough for a stellar product like OmniFocus.
It lacks elegance, balance, polish and an understanding of how to utilize the iPad screen in the best way.

I love the program and appreciate the work you put into it. I'll take the functionality in any form you package it. That being said, the UI looks bland. I think its the dull color scheme and square corners. Maybe a black background, brighter foreground images, and rounded edges would spice things up.

To be fair the video did show the graphic design project open so it looks like that's what they are working on next.

I did a quick Photoshop of two screen grabs of the sneak peek and lightened the background. The lessening of contrast reduced the blockiness, perhaps at the expense of differentiation, but the desktop program is legible without the dark background.

I compared your interface with Things and the problem that you have is that you need to show nested folders, which they don't have to, so your arrangement has to be more intricate. But many of the comparisons between you are focussed on their more Mac-like appearance. My preference too is for clean, simple lines. Instapaper uses a slight graduation to draw the eye in rather than harsh lines and colour.

I am wondering if you need to keep the traditional stepped arrangement of the full version, but will think through alternatives before posting suggestions.

Thanks to everyone for your feedback so far. I assure you, this is just a peek into OmniFocus's dressing room. The app that emerges will be much more charming than what you see here. :D

I rarely use the project mode -- if you could give us a video that shows the more common context mode or selects one of the contexts so we can see what tasks look like that would be great. My ideal interface would be this for the context view (see attached below1)

With the option to close the sidebar to this:

[see attached below2]

As you can see, I wasn't very productive yesterday!

Looking forward to seeing more, but regardless of the interface I will be thrilled to just get my hands on it. Thanks for giving the users an opportunity to give some UI feedback *before* everything is set in stone.

interface - more functional?
 

First of all, thanks for the interface preview guys, I just can not wait for the OF on the iPad.
The design is not stunning, however I can feel from your posts we are commenting on some prototype ... so, I will concentrate my feedback on the functional area.

Just a few considerations about the target use cases for iPad [may be subjective, my case]:

1/ I have been using OF since the first release, consider myself an addict, organizing all my activities using OF. The main competitive advantage I see against Things is the ability to work through a lot of data quickly. Having 644 actions in 34 projects as of today, I tried Things twice - some features are compelling [such as the areas of responsibility for hard core GTDers], but it can not compete in the speed - just a simple example: creating new action by pressing <enter> is must have while shooting thoughts out of my head. PLEASE TRY TO KEEP THESE ADVANTAGES OF OMNIFOCUS, think about the users with keyboard dock or BT keyboards

2/ After week of iPad life, I found myself leaving the macbook air home most of the time. I believe the iPad version has to enable also tasks, which are not critical for the iPhone - such as the weekly review

The interface:

3/ While the iPhone is sort of ''tell me what to do now'' application, the iPad screen has the real estate to provide overview [which the iPhone lacks]. My real concern after having a look at the video is wasting the left pane for options I select and do not need to see until I want to see my data ''the other way round'' [switch from contexts to projects, to due view, or review]. This is a case for the pop-up menu I have seen you make use in OmniGraffle. I would love to see projects/contexts in the left pane, hiding the view selectors somewhere else.

4/ ''Dashboard'' would be highly appreciated. Quick overview of number of due actions in projects and contexts for today, overdue, inbox, someday/maybe. A simple graph showing the number of scheduled actions in the next few days would be cool.

5/ would it be possible to show number of due AND overdue in two bubbles, istead of showing the overdue and no due as soon as there is one overdue item in the context/project?

Hope the feedback from the community will help you
Should you consider a beta programme, I am in - OF is the app worth the testing time

Greetings from Prague
Ondrej

[QUOTE=TripleM;77925]
For myself, the biggest shortcoming of the iPhone version is the awkward way in which one has to conduct weekly reviews. On the other hand, I love the desktop interface for reviews. I review exclusively on the desktop and that's no problem. I do, however, feel that being able to leave the laptop at home and conduct a desktop-style review on my iPad sitting on the patio at my local coffee shop would be dreamy.
[/quote]
Even worse, there's no way on the iPhone to actually mark the project as reviewed, which makes the otherwise wonderful support for variable review cycles useless unless you are at a Mac. Having the ability to mark a project as reviewed is near the top of my iPod/iPhone/iPad wish list, as there are countless otherwise wasted moments where I could whip out OF and review a project or two while waiting for someone to answer the phone, standing in line, etc. Without being able to see which projects next need reviewing and to track what I reviewed, I might as well let my kid play Labyrinth instead.
[quote]
The other interface quality I love about the desktop is drag and drop processing of inbox items. I still struggle to remember how to turn an inbox item into a new project in the iPhone edition.
[/quote]
Tap the item (to select it), tap the refile button (looks like a file folder), tap Convert to Project. Within the confines of the available screen real estate on the iPhone/iPod, what would be more natural?
[quote]
Side note: I can't proof read this because the text entry box doesn't scroll on my iPad.[/QUOTE]
Sure, it does. The trick is that you tap near the bottom of the text entry box as if changing the insertion point. Hold and drag your finger down beyond the bottom of the box and it will scroll, slowly.

for me I think what is the issue is the indentation, I think if a user has 3 or 4 level of indentation it might look really bad vs on the iphone and mac version all projects are on the same level, not sure if that make sense?

also if you compare OmniFocus to things to me things is a lot nicer but that is just my opinion. the tools are all separated in the left pane and the list is in the right pane.

the right pane is brighter and the left pane darker. The Icons in things are brighter

It's so hard to give constructive criticism based on a four-second video. I feel like this is the Zapruder film, with the frame-by-frame dissections!

Here's mine:

* First reaction: that doesn't look right. It looks nothing like either the mac or the iphone version.

* Everything looks big, oversized, with a lot of wasted space.

* The disclosure triangles are all wrong. Disclosure triangles don't point up.

* The indentations will be quite troublesome with long project names and multiple indentations.

* It's unclear how notes will be handled. The one thing that appears to be a note is short, and no obvious way for seeing longer ones.

* It's unclear if I can tap a context to switch to it, or if I have to switch to Context mode and then find the item again.

* I like the idea of animating open the project, but that first jump to the left is disconcerting. It should animate out smoothly.


Overall, I'm disappointed by the 4-second preview. At this moment, I feel a blown-up iPhone version would continue to be a better solution, though not long-term.

Based on the preview, it doesn't feel like the interface has been rethought for use on an iPad. Instead it feels like it's been "skinned" to be "flashier".

At a basic level, I think you could have taken the Mac interface and made it work better on iPad.

Here's how I'd like to see it work:

- when in horizontal mode, the various "modes" (project, context, etc. maybe select perspectives too) would be on the left pane (as now).

- If I tapped (say) "Projects", that left pane would slide left, and the left sidebar would be the list of projects and folders. (Tapping a folder would progressively slide left to expose items)

- When I tap on a project name, the right pane would contain the list of actions for that project.

- The toolbars would contain the same items (or many of them) that the Mac version does (filtering, sorting, etc.)

- If I tap an action, an editing window would slide up from the bottom, allowing me to edit the contents, and see any notes attached (you can indicate a note is attached with a small icon somewhere; tapping that can also bring up a notes-only window).

etc.

I could probably spend hours writing something up, but you get my drift, I hope.

Summarizing:

* 4-second clip: underwhelming
* There's work that can be done to make this more iPad-friendly

I'm looking forward to the next iteration, whenever and whatever that might be.

so, only 4 seconds to go on...
 

FWIW...

1. the new action and Inbox boxes are too big
2. I'd prefer to see the project hierarchy in the sidebar
3. I'd prefer the sidebar column to be narrower
4. visually, the right column looks/feels clunky, I don't care for the nested look either, but I understand why it's there...I think
5. I'm hoping there is some control over font size, and column resizing would be swell
6. I like the view bar look in the Mac version, don't know if that will make the cut

That's 4 seconds worth. I'm just not excited about the look, but I appreciate you putting it up. I honestly expected something similar to the iPhone version that made better use of the real estate.

As with the Mac version, I'm less concerned with how it looks than how it works. I want to be able to leave my MacBook at home and feel like I can get most of my organizing done with the iPad version. The iPhone version for me is strictly for capture and light organizing.

Anyway, thanks. I'll buy it when it comes out and we'll work on improving it together as a community.

Dave

Link to Video?
 

How about posting a LINK to the video!

I came straight to the Forum and cannot find a reference to it.

[QUOTE=Mr. Reeee;78008]How about posting a LINK to the video!

I came straight to the Forum and cannot find a reference to it.[/QUOTE]
The problem is that this thread was broken off from the original, without taking the movie link along for the ride. Here it is:

[url]http://people.omnigroup.com/kc/videos/OmniFocus-for-iPad-sneak-peek/[/url]

Positive and Constructive
 

I too shared a "ouch" moment on the new UI, but here's what's positive, and what I would dearly want to be there...

The links to key views on the left look OK.
The facility to expand and contract folders and navigate through looks great.
The listing of actions is clear and nicely uncluttered.

And moving forward?

The controls on the left could be taken right down in size, and maybe placed across the top like in the desktop app - we don't need them often compared with the other features.

The nested folders could then sit on the left like in the desktop app.

The tasks could then be presented more like in the desktop app too.

I guess the theme is emerging here, and having connected up the iPad as an additional monitor to my mac and dragged the desktop app over to it, I've got to say that the desktop interface works just fine on the iPad's screen resolution. The overall scaling will have to come up a bit to accommodate my fat fingers, but that's all it needs.

I guess the overwhelming feeling is that the UI on the desktop app is right. The iPhone has a great subset of that UI. We don't need another one!

And what's all this about $20? You can certainly set your sights higher than that for the value that this thing will deliver!

I thought that the video was just an early mock up working design, so I didn't get too crazed about it, but if that is more like the final design than mock up, ouch.

A few thoughts...

- Why such a departure from the design on the Mac? Different icons? Colors? I don't get it. Consistency in UI is sometimes better than newness.

- Agree that the "New task" and "Inbox" icons are way too big. No need for that.

- The Folder background color (dark gray) and indented design is just pretty bad. Why have not have projects in a folder, actually attached to the folder, (like OSX UI).

Again, the biggest surprise is why make this like "new", just make it work "new" on the iPad, don't reinvent the wheel with every new platform.

BZ

Ugh.

OmniFocus at its best should empower and energize customers to get their stuff done. Looking at this version gives me indigestion.

I understand that you want specific comments, not just "it looks like a port instead of a re-imagination of what OmniFocus could be on an interactive touch screen."

But IMHO the huge list of indented banners with triangles - plus the sidebar with text that takes up about 30% of width of the screen - shows either a severe conservatism, or a critical lack of UI expertise, on the current OmniFocus team.

The name is OmniFOCUS. I need the iPad app to magically allow me to FOCUS on the things I need to do. I don't want to spend my time scrolling through collapsed banners and clicking triangles like I did 15 years ago on my mac.

Give me the ability to pop up my list of projects or contexts, choose one, and then get the UI and the other stuff I have not chosen OUT OF MY WAY and let me FOCUS on that project or context.

Location? I should just need to tap the bulls-eye that we are all familiar with, and THAT should be the signal to the iPad that I want everything nearby.

It's only a 4 second video, and I am waiting impatiently as much as anyone for the iPad version of OmniFocus, but I have seen enough to vote that you go back to the drawing board on the UI front, shake up the team to get some fresh blood in there with some real UI vision, allow some of the perceived sacred cows to be slain.

Come back at us with a program that is refreshing to use, to look at, and which helps us really cut through all the clutter to GTD.

I'll wait for that.

[QUOTE=BK0001;78034]Give me the ability to pop up my list of projects or contexts, choose one, and then get the UI and the other stuff I have not chosen OUT OF MY WAY and let me FOCUS on that project or context.[/QUOTE]

Isn't that what perspectives are for?

Anyway, I like the new interface, it looks like a simple way to organize and I'm looking forward to the release.

Thanks for giving us a sneak peak. I understand this is a work in progress but have a couple observations.

There are a couple comments about a note attached to an action. I really like being able to see the note without having to open the action in the desktop version. As I'm reviewing available actions, there may be details in the notes that provide information which help me focus in on the appropriate next action. Please don't change the note to an icon without the ability to see it inline with the action. The text as a different color and/or size like the desktop version is ideal.

Also, as previously pointed out I think a lot of people will use the iPad version for review and planning; not just for doing. It is not apparent to me in the sneak peek video that we could easily plan and review. I feel this ability on the iPad is essential.

I agree with ckstuart -- the ability to plan and review HAVE to be in the iPad version or there's no reason for me to switch from the blown-up iPhone version (which I actually don't think is as egregious as some here seem to).

Please, let us do a real review on the iPad! (How about a video showing that, since the perspective is clearly seen in the current video?)

And regarding focus: once we've selected a project, should turning the iPad to portrait do that? Like the Mail app does?

I took a tip from "martinfbcampbell" in post #29 (this thread) and using the "AirDisplay" app I connected my iPad to my MacBook Pro as a shared screen, dragged the full Mac version of OF over to the iPad and it looked GREAT in my opinion. I understand that OF was being run on the MacBook and only being displayed on the iPad, so that being said - the actual functionality may be different due to a more limited processor/OS/memory/whatever, BUT - using the desktop version (UI) of OF combined with the touchscreen of the iPad was...is amazing.

I may be in a minority here, but I really like the looks of the present desktop version of OF. It isn't a "pretty" UI with all the colors, shapes, graphics, and so on - but it presents what you need to see in a direct, clear, distinctive way. And having the touch screen capabilities - try it, go ahead... take a look at your present desktop on your Mac and touch it like you would if you wanted to open a task to change the name/context/start date/etc.

Try hooking up with Open Air Display like I did and give it a try. Actaully using the desktop UI and making changes through the touch screen is a whole new experience. Yes, if you have fat fingers you will probably need to have a little more space between the tasks, etc. But that should be user configurable. I'm willing to have to be a little more careful in where I touch the screen to be able to keep all the functionality that the iPad may be capable of (within it's limitations) being displayed on the screen. (i.e.: be able to have the toolbar on the top, the Projects/Contexts listed in the pane on the left, and the details in the center) And I understand, it's just my opinion. As long as OmniGroup doesn't change the functionality of OF, I'm going to use it no matter how it ends up looking on the iPad. It didn't take long, but my iPad has become attached to me and I don't see that changing.

We few, we happy few / Things UI
 

[QUOTE=atreinke;78055]I may be in a minority here, but I really like the looks of the present desktop version of OF. It isn't a "pretty" UI with all the colors, shapes, graphics, and so on - but it presents what you need to see in a direct, clear, distinctive way. [/QUOTE]

atreinke - I'm with you in that minority, but I think we will carry the argument, because I work in a company where I run the ONLY mac for office use and all my PC tooting compatriots who are doing GTD on Outlook, various plugins, and tasktask glaze over and start drooling at the sight of the OF interface. It's right for the job and it works on the iPad resolution. Sorry OF, but I'd rather wait an extra month or two and get the right UI.

BTW, has anyone else noticed the striking resemblance to the desktop interface on "things"? - Particularly in the right hand task list it is spooky. Just a word of warning though to the Omni team, if you're going to force us into a things UI, things does it better!

Anyway, enough whining, you guys always do a great job and always leave us smiling, so I know you'll take what you need from this feedback and get the job done. That's what the forum is for right?

Revelation!
 

[QUOTE=atreinke;78055]BUT - using the desktop version (UI) of OF combined with the touchscreen of the iPad was...is amazing. [/QUOTE]

OH MY GOD.

I have just realised, having read your post carefully, that AirDisplay gives you mouse control via the touch screen (I've only been using my pad a few days here in Blighty and haven't played with all the Apps yet).

I have reached Nirvana.

Even with fat fingers, it works beautifully. On my office wireless network I can wander around with Desktop Omnifocus running on my pad.

You have GOT to try this!

My initial reaction to the video (such as can be gained in four seconds) is a feeling of being rather underwhelmed, especially after having high expectations. My understanding of how Apple views the UI process for iPad is that applications should mirror real-world objects as much as possible. Examples of this are the Calendar, Notes and Contacts apps that come preinstalled.

Some GTD apps that follow this process are Things (which let's face it, is sadly underwhelming in the functionality department) and Appigo's ToDo. ToDo, in my opinion is absolutely beautiful and makes up in functionality what Things lacks. It does however lack some of the functionality that I like in OmniFocus, namely the ability to shift contexts easily, have sequential projects, perspectives and the ability to review items easily.

But the interface is gorgeous. It doesn't get in the way of anything.

The UI I saw in the 4-second video that you were so kind to share left me wondering what exactly it was I just saw. I saw a lot of blocky objects with empty screen real-estate. It didn't look polished at all... it reminded me of a wire frame or concept.

I'm certainly not trying to be harsh, but merely offer some constructive criticism to hopefully help you guys create an extremely polished and fantastic app for the iPad. It is well known (at least from my perspective) that OmniFocus is unparalleled in the functionality and feature department. I would be more than willing to wait a bit extra to see if you guys could match your robust functionality with a polished and attractive user interface.

Hope this helps,
Pat

???
 

Well, a nymber of things to point out here.

The UI, if it stays like this, does not look good from a starting point of view. And I say this as 4 secs and just 1 action (project expanding) does not say much. We would need to see MUCH more to understand what is really happening and if thereis some thouhgt on this or not.

On the other hand, really you do not need to be a designer or artist today to build something basically good and beautiful. Just look at best practises of other apps. Additionally I would like to give some credit to the Omni guys.
Example : Omnigraffle and OmniGS. They look and work very good on the ipad.

Maybe the focus should be to get the basics right, as it is not easy to change later, rather than provide a super wide set of the desktop capabilities on the expense of lets say the UI.

What I wonder is why there aren't more videos or news.
Based on Ken, next week is pretty dead due to the whole team going to WWDC and the week after they will release the app. So why cannot we have more to feed our curiosity and provide feedback at the same time ?

BTW, seen today an app called Midnight Inbox. See their implementation. looks interesting.

[IMG]http://home.fuse.net/wlow/OmnifocusMockup.png[/IMG]

This was done in a little over a half hour in KEYNOTE for goodness sakes. Although it's really rough and the color scheme is a bit gaudy, it still looks a bit more like what I think you guys could do.

Note texture; it makes the blank areas not so boring.

Try a better color scheme than all that gray.

Why you are not using your Add Action icon is beyond me.

Rounded corners whenever you can -- this is a Mac app after all. And recess areas to draw people to where their fingers should go.

And for Perspectives, why not a pop over menu instead of a drop down list.

PLEASE, PLEASE have the final Omnifocus visually engaging and make use in creative ways all that OS 3.2 has to offer. I noticed that Things has Pinch to Peak inside of projects like you can with Photo stacks - that's creative - but Things is lacking in basic functionality -- they don't yet have repeating tasks enabled on either the iPad or the iPhone app yet. Midnight Inbox tries to adhere to GTD even more closely than Omnifocus (they use all the terms -- collect, etc) but the code is a bugfest (lost data reported).

That's very pretty, wlow (and I like the corkboard background).

It's a lot of lost space though, and I don't think Omnifocus needs go the Things-inspired direction.

I'd be more than happy with an iPad Mail-inspired interface instead. I don't need flourishes, and need functionality. (Otherwise I'd be using Things or To Do for ipad (which looks wonderful but seems to have major usability issues, from the reviews; read the "Most Critical" reviews to see what's wrong with apps; read the rest to feel good about buying an app.))

The most disappointing thing for me with the 4 second clip is that it's such a drastic departure from OmniFocus as we know it.

Not only do I like the direction you're taking with the iPad UI, I hope you go in that direction with the Mac UI. I can't wait to have this on my iPad.

[QUOTE=jasong;78138]That's very pretty, wlow (and I like the corkboard background).

It's a lot of lost space though, and I don't think Omnifocus needs go the Things-inspired direction.

I'd be more than happy with an iPad Mail-inspired interface instead. I don't need flourishes, and need functionality. (Otherwise I'd be using Things or To Do for ipad (which looks wonderful but seems to have major usability issues, from the reviews; read the "Most Critical" reviews to see what's wrong with apps; read the rest to feel good about buying an app.))

The most disappointing thing for me with the 4 second clip is that it's such a drastic departure from OmniFocus as we know it.[/QUOTE]

Yep.
For business, function before form please.
One of the convincing factors of OmniFocus were the efforts to make the iPhone QuickEntry button indeed quickly accessible.
Although Things etc might be looking stylisher, they loose time.
And Time is still money (and quick responsiveness avoids frustration, keeps our minds clear and our hearts cool)

My 2 Cents on the topic
 

Hello,

First I have to say I am looking forward to OmniFocus for iPad.

But there are a few things I am worried about. I already bought the desktop and the iPhone version. It was the most expensive iphone app I ever bought, and because it boosts my productivity. It is great In meetings or while shopping to tip off items, review things to talk about etc. But I don't see me spending an equal or higher amount on an iPad version.

Maybe you could help iPhone early adopters by making the iPad version an upgrade to the iPhone version, and bring out the iPhone only version as new one.

From an iPad version, I expect the same usefulness. To be slick, just showing information, no funny graphics of how somebody's desk might look like. And to support me in tipping off items, capture todos and ideally help me even review my todos regularly.

I know you need some time to polish everything, but please don't release something which is not perfect for you!

OH MY GOSH.

Wow. Ughhhhhh..

I realized when I bought OF for my Mac that you guys really don't get aesthetics, but the program works well... whereas the current version of Things falls short due to data being stored in an XML file... yet aesthetically, it's quite pleasing to the eye.

Seriously guys. The design is VERRRRRY poor. As many have said, it is blocky. It's not neat and clean. It looks cluttered and confusing. I'm DYING to get this app on my iPad but looking at the current version is making me very skeptical and ready to move to a different app. The whole idea of GTD is centered in the concept of organized/clean. This preview is cluttered, confusing and just plain ugly.

Look at the attachment? The mock some other guy did in another thread. This is BEAUTIFUL. Organized. Clean. Not cluttered. It ties into the iphone/ipad theme.

[IMG]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1727151/Apporacle/apporacle_omnifocus_big.png[/IMG]

Pleeeeeeeeeeease take this aesthetic and incorporate it. I want to believe in you guys - but you need some serious help on the design side.

Agh. I'm sure this is discouraging as I'm sure you've put a lot of work into this. But please hear this.

[B]WE WANT YOU TO SUCCEED!!![/B] I'm HAPPY to pay you money for OF on the iPad. But it's GOT to have a total revamp on the design side.

For what it's worth. I'm a designer. Let me know if you would like more personal feedback.... or gosh, even assistance in the design. But I think the attached image does it GREAT justice. If the iPad version looked like that - I'd buy 5 copies! If it looks like it currently does in the preview, I'll sadly be going with another todo.

SinCERELY,
Josh - joshperk AT mac DOT com

[QUOTE=jpfour23;78414]whereas the current version of Things falls short due to data being stored in an XML file...

[/QUOTE]

Don't look now, but so does OmniFocus, and OmniOutliner, and OmniGraffle, and OmniPlan, and OmniGraphSketcher...

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;78418]Don't look now, but so does OmniFocus, and OmniOutliner, and OmniGraffle, and OmniPlan, and OmniGraphSketcher...[/QUOTE]

So will it be possible in (near) future to interchange data more easily between them?

Having one file that can be viewed & edited by different apps, where each one adds it's flavor?
OF let you focus on the tasks
OO on the hierarchy in-between
OG on the flow..

I may have other ideas later, but this is just for now:

1. I really like the fact that the sidebar icons are monochrome and 'stamped' as they are. Lack of color = lack of distraction when looking at the main view.

2. If I'm correct in assuming, I like the idea of 'flagged' being the same action box, just orange. I don't need a separate flag icon, like in the desktop version of OF (in other words, not a fan of it in desktop OF)

3. I do really hope you shrink those action boxes. The hit mark for the finger could be around that size, but the actual icon needn't be so large. Same goes for iPhone version.

4. Frankly I don't have much of a problem with the indenting interface, although it does look a little strange once there is a lot of nesting at once. I think it has to do with the proportion of the space between rows to the indenting from the previous parent folder/project. That said, I REALLY enjoy the parent folder locking up top when you scroll down. It's an extremely natural way to focus! And very quick to refocus.

5. Does it really need to say 'Graphic Design' under each action, if I'm in the project 'Graphic Design'? Redundant, no?

6. I agree with others that the disclosure triangles (if we are going to use this type of interface) should be down or right, not down and up. Right usually has pointed to the row of the folder itself when it is collapsed. Also, please put it next to the folder/project, to the left of it, just like OS X and your desktop version.

7. I dig dark color schemes. No problem there. Although, no need for the high contrast gradient in the bg. A simple solid color with a slight drop shadow from the left side would be fine, or if you must use a gradient, have the brighter color be closer to the darker color for less contrast.

8. Yes, icons are a little skewed in size/position, but that's polish. Again, thanks for monochrome.

9. 'Projects' sidebar icon could be a little simpler. Don't need the top and bottom black bumpers, or that top folder tab thing.

10. 'Due' icon clock hands could be thicker.

11. I REALLY like that you incorporated the current date into the app.

12. Lastly, please devote polish time to seeing where you can save pixels for greater use. We're back to 1024x768, from our fancy HD displays.

13. Thank you for doing a great job with fonts!

14. Maybe new task button doesn't need to be [that] big, but I would like it large like that. Same goes for inbox.

Thanks!!! Can't wait!

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xml"]XML[/URL] is merely a data storage and transmission format. Its benefit is that it is both easily readable by machines and reasonably readable by humans. The fact that multiple programs use XML for storing their data says (almost) nothing about the ease of interchanging data between them.

I saw "almost", because XML does give a common shape to the information, just not common content. There are tools, like [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xslt"]XSLT[/URL], that rely on the common shape of the information to simplify the task of converting the content. That means that Omni is well positioned to add greater interchange of data, but it still is a significant undertaking that they'll have to prioritize amongst all the other things they could be working on.

I have just bought Reeder for iPad and the developer's implementation of nested folders is brilliant, very good to look at but still very functional. I could really see a similar arrangement working for projects and contexts in Omnifocus. It moves away from the outliner approach which works on the desktop but I think your mockup shows that it is not really suited to the iPad display.
Focusing down into complex projects or contexts could be handled by this type of "pinch to open" gesture. A pop-over, such as in Mail, could work if wanting to move actions into other contexts or projects. Obviously the interface could not be used without adjusting for Omnifocus particular requirements but there are ideas here that could be usefully employed.
And such a radical approach to task management would raise the bar for any competing apps.

Interface NEEDS work!
 

I've got to agree with Josh, in general.

The mock up wastes WAY too much space. It needs to be clean, simple and compact. Simply because there's more screen real estate does NOT mean you should waste 1 pixel of it!

Left column needs to be narrower, the right, a bit wider. Lose those dreadful grey trenches on both sides and all the space around separate list items ALL need to go away.
A simple thick divider/resize separator line between both sides would be sufficient.

It's also dull and nearly monochromatic. It desperately needs More Color!
Icons are too large. In Box counter and New buttons are awful.
I loathe the huge check boxes taken from the iPhone/iPod touch version.

As others have mentioned, using the desktop version of OF makes much more sense as a jump-off point rather than "borrowing" too heavily from the iPhone/iPod touch version or Things.

As far as a good design goes, check out the ill-fated The Hit List, which I find preferable to Things or OmniFocus. The tabbed interface is quite nice and their subtle use of color works well. I would have purchased THL instead of OF, had the developer had the time and resources to fully support it. AND a real timetable for releases and full iOS support. It's a shame.

Hire their interface designer!
[url]http://www.potionfactory.com/thehitlist/[/url]

I think a few people are forgetting something very important here.

Lots of these suggestions to have an app more like the desktop version, or indeed *any* desktop app are forgetting that the iPad is based on the iOS SDK and not the full desktop version of OSX and hence the features available in the UI are largely going to be governed by the capabilities of the platform which are nothing like as flexible as the full mac os..

[QUOTE=RiK;78560]I think a few people are forgetting something very important here.

Lots of these suggestions to have an app more like the desktop version, or indeed *any* desktop app are forgetting that the iPad is based on the iOS SDK and not the full desktop version of OSX and hence the features available in the UI are largely going to be governed by the capabilities of the platform which are nothing like as flexible as the full mac os..[/QUOTE]

Sorry, but that's just flat out wrong.

You may not build the same UI, but you can certainly build the same functionality.

The iOS is just as powerful as Mac OS X, you just have to be willing to spend the time to rethink things a bit.

Someone earlier referenced the problem of "too many indented lines" consuming too much screen real estate. I have run into this problem using OmniFocus on my MacBook air. What does anyone think of the concept of the option for some type of "automatic window pan to the right," based on either touching a level of the outline, or based on your location in the vertical scroll of the outline?

I'm sure there's a good reason why something like this isn't done, but it was just a quick idea I had based on my constant "scrolling the outline window to the right" when dealing with too much hierarchical indentation when using OmniFocus for Mac on a smaller screen.

I haven't fully considered what kind of rules would cause the focus of the current window to pan to the right, but it would obviously have something to do with the majority of the on-screen outline items being mostly off the screen to the right.

I like the 4 second demo UI
 

I like the UI on the 4 second demo, love the tree hierarchy and how the parent project shows up at the top once you expand the tab, and how the tab reclaims the space lost to the left.

I think you guys are on the right track, and that the iPad version doesn't have to look exactly the same as the OSX version, it should take advantage of the design elements of the iPad.

There's no doubt this is going to be the most important app for me on the iPad, and I can't wait to get it!

[QUOTE=steven;78592]Someone earlier referenced the problem of "too many indented lines" consuming too much screen real estate. I have run into this problem using OmniFocus on my MacBook air.

I'm sure there's a good reason why something like this isn't done, but it was just a quick idea I had based on my constant "scrolling the outline window to the right" when dealing with too much hierarchical indentation when using OmniFocus for Mac on a smaller screen.
[/QUOTE]
How deeply nested do your projects get? How long are your project and action names?

You can control the amount of indentation given to child rows in the Styles pane of the OmniFocus Preferences. If you like deep nesting, you might want to dial that Child Indent setting down a bit. It is also possible to put newlines in project and action names by holding down the option key when pressing return, so you could wrap particularly lengthy items to multiple lines and a more reasonable width.

Not intended as a critique of your suggestion, just tossing out some things you can do right now.

[QUOTE=jasong;78563]Sorry, but that's just flat out wrong.

You may not build the same UI, but you can certainly build the same functionality.

The iOS is just as powerful as Mac OS X, you just have to be willing to spend the time to rethink things a bit.[/QUOTE]

Read my post again..

I didn't mention functionality. I have no doubt at all that all the required functionality will be there. I simply pointed out that people shouldn't expect to emulate the ui of a desktop app on a device based on a mobile touchscreen OS.

How is that "flat out wrong"?

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;78598]How deeply nested do your projects get? How long are your project and action names?

You can control the amount of indentation given to child rows in the Styles pane of the OmniFocus Preferences. If you like deep nesting, you might want to dial that Child Indent setting down a bit. It is also possible to put newlines in project and action names by holding down the option key when pressing return, so you could wrap particularly lengthy items to multiple lines and a more reasonable width.

Not intended as a critique of your suggestion, just tossing out some things you can do right now.[/QUOTE]

Thanks, good tip on the opt-return to control where the linefeed happens. Titles auto-wrap anyway, though, right? I have a bigger proj/folder name truncation problem in the (left) sidebar though; too bad opt-rtn doesn't work there (I know that's not what I first ref'd, but I'm a new dad and rather punchy from lack of sleep ;-)

Nested folder count: I can get from my highest level custom folder (not "library" or "projects") to a basic project by 6 levels of outline, and add another level for the odd action list. (& no I don't have any projects comprised of "step 1, find pen, step 2, grasp pen, lol; these are legit efforts)

The 4sec sneaky vid peek showed 4 nested folders taking up about a quarter of the main outline pane width, so even with indent tweaking (& I'm doubtful (but hopeful) that feature will exist on the iPad), my three more levels of hierarchy had me concerned about iPad real estate being half gone.

I guess I don't even know if the iPad version will truncate or wrap too-long titles.

Just an idea to solve a problem that I don't know will actually exist, lol.

Thanks for the reply, though, whp.

[QUOTE=RiK;78617]Read my post again..

I didn't mention functionality. I have no doubt at all that all the required functionality will be there. I simply pointed out that people shouldn't expect to emulate the ui of a desktop app on a device based on a mobile touchscreen OS.

How is that "flat out wrong"?[/QUOTE]

Sorry, maybe I shouldn't have quoted your entire message. Let's try again....

[QUOTE=RiK] the features available in the UI are largely going to be governed by the capabilities of the [iOS] platform which are nothing like as flexible as the full mac os[/QUOTE]

That's flat out wrong <grin>... iOS can be just as flexible (and powerful) as the "full mac os"... and on top of that, iOS offers behaviors that make doing some things *easier* than on Mac OS X.

I can't think of anything OF on Mac does that couldn't be done on OF for iPad.

OK, one thing: there's no "quick entry" on iPad....

[QUOTE=jasong;78636]I can't think of anything OF on Mac does that couldn't be done on OF for iPad.[/QUOTE]

We're not disagreeing on that point from a functionality POV, iOS is extremely well featured and I never ceased to be amazed by the apps people are releasing.

The point I was (still am!) trying to make is that it needs to be handled somewhat differently from the UI perspective and therefore when people are quoting example UI's from desktop apps they need to be aware that those apps are designed for primarily keyboard/mouse interface rather than a (fat-fingers) touch screen.

Hey, I know, let's try talking in swahili or something and see if we can get in more of a pickle that way :D

[QUOTE=jasong;78636]

I can't think of anything OF on Mac does that couldn't be done on OF for iPad.

OK, one thing: there's no "quick entry" on iPad....[/QUOTE]
Clipping would seem like a difficult nut to crack. Acting as the master in a Bonjour syncing setup would be another. Allowing you to use Applescript to extend the app's functionality. I suppose the second one goes away if you were only talking UI.

[QUOTE=RiK;78641]
The point I was (still am!) trying to make is that it needs to be handled somewhat differently from the UI perspective and therefore when people are quoting example UI's from desktop apps they need to be aware that those apps are designed for primarily keyboard/mouse interface rather than a (fat-fingers) touch screen.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. Certainly not a literal translation from Mac to iPad.

Many good interaction modes already exist on iPad to replace what would be natural on Mac, and that don't require a yet another mode. For example, the Mail app on iPad demonstrates how to do drill-down navigation on a sidebar, so disclosure triangles become less necessary.

Same thing with popovers, which provide in-line content disclosure without taking up a lot of (permanent) space.

Of the basic interactions and UI that OF for Mac provides, the iPad version should be able to provide all of that, and more, with a well-considered application, and without trying to either mimic the Mac version, or take a page from Things, et. al.

I would have preferred to see a more conservative approach on OF for iPad, one that was closer in style to OF for Mac, and Mail for iPad (perhaps with a few nice touches of UI elegance and thoughtfulness).

The Best iPad Interface for Omnifocus
 

Simply port the existing iPhone interface to the iPad. There is nothing wrong with OmniFocus for the iPhone except the distortion that occurs when you hit the 2x button on the iPad.

One (anxious) man's opinion.

[QUOTE=jasong;78649]For example, the Mail app on iPad demonstrates how to do drill-down navigation on a sidebar, so disclosure triangles become less necessary.[/QUOTE]

While the Mail interface is fine for navigating a hierarchy and isn't sufficient for either manipulating the structure of the hierarchy or for selecting multiple parts of the hierarchy to view at once. Both of those are necessary for a fully functional implementation of OF on the iPad.

I've yet to see a decent, full-featured outliner on the iPad. As they did with OmniGraffle for iPad, I think Omni is exploring brand new design space here.

I can live with the flow in the video but one thing that is key is to use the screen realestate. We have an Ipad so we should be able to have space to hold ..

Notes.
Next Review Dates
Documents.

If the fonts are too large, the value of the Ipad decreases as we dont get to use use for what we need.

One thing that may not be obvious when watching the video is that the iPad screen has more pixels per inch than most desktop screens, so everything you see in that video will actually be smaller. On an actual iPad, the height of each row is currently about half the width of my thumb. (And that's about as small as we want to get, since we often tap items with our thumbs while holding onto the iPad by its sides.)

By the way, the reason we chose to represent collapsed rows using arrows pointing upwards rather than pointing to the right is that arrows pointing to the right generally indicate "take me to a detail screen".

I think many of you will be happy to hear that current builds use some of those right-pointing arrows in the sidebar to access your project and context lists in the sidebar. Tapping on a sidebar project or context will focus on that item in the main view, much like the Mac app does. (In the build from the sneak peek video you could also focus on specific projects and contexts, but you had to get there by pressing on an item and selecting "Focus" from its pop up menu.)

Any chance of another quick peek then Ken?

[QUOTE=RiK;78716]Any chance of another quick peek then Ken?[/QUOTE]

yes a new video would be nice.

[QUOTE=curt.clifton;78668]While the Mail interface is fine for navigating a hierarchy and isn't sufficient for either manipulating the structure of the hierarchy or for selecting multiple parts of the hierarchy to view at once. Both of those are necessary for a fully functional implementation of OF on the iPad[/QUOTE]

Mail on iPad lets you select multiple items and act on them by tapping Edit. In Mail, those actions are Delete and Move. OF for iPad could have similar actions plus a few more.

Alternatively, Keynote for iPad introduces tap-and-hold to select items; you tap-and-hold one item, then tap other items to select them. A hierarchy makes this harder to implement perfectly, but it's doable I believe (Keynote handles this by using indentation to indicate hierarchy, and making each slide progressively smaller, and then limiting the number of levels you can have (four).

Wow. A little late to the party here, I know, and I don't want to be too critical as I know you will have put a lot of work into this, but I have to say that interface looks pretty horrible. I'm not a UI designer by any stretch of the imagination, but first impressions would be:
[LIST][*]Wasted space. Lots of it. (I understand that this might have changed now)[*]Boxing the list items in the right pane waste space and IMHO is ugly, why not make it more like the Mac or iPhone UIs?[*]The Inbox and new task icons look far too big.[*]The upward-pointing disclosure arrows are a confusing departure from the way the Mac UI works. Why not have a right-pointing arrow at the right side of items that have things to disclose and no arrow if they don't, like on the iPhone?[/LIST]
Like others earlier in the thread I don't really understand why it is so different to the Mac and iPhone UIs. Surely starting with the Mac UI and blending it with the iPhone one to take the touch UI and screen size into account would have been a reasonable approach, as would taking some cues from how the built-in iPad apps plus other Apple apps like Keynote etc. do things?

Sorry!

[QUOTE=Ken Case;78707]By the way, the reason we chose to represent collapsed rows using arrows pointing upwards rather than pointing to the right is that arrows pointing to the right generally indicate "take me to a detail screen".

I think many of you will be happy to hear that current builds use some of those right-pointing arrows in the sidebar to access your project and context lists in the sidebar. Tapping on a sidebar project or context will focus on that item in the main view, much like the Mac app does. (In the build from the sneak peek video you could also focus on specific projects and contexts, but you had to get there by pressing on an item and selecting "Focus" from its pop up menu.)[/QUOTE]


I'd like to clarify my feedback regarding the arrows. I can't speak for others.

In Finder, there is list view. In list view, disclosure triangles are positioned to the [B]left[/B] of the icon, pointing right, or into the row it is associated with. Clicking the triangle points it down, into the contents of that row/folder. This is the behavior you use in your Omni apps as well.

Ken, I understand that you want to avoid confusing users with the traditional iOS 'detail' or 'contents' arrow that points right (off the screen). However, the purpose of the triangles you're using are as disclosure triangles, and to maintain certain UI paradigms, I'd highly recommend placing them left of the project/folder icon, and acting in the same way as they do in Finder and OmniOutliner.

Upon watching the video again, I've noticed you even use the UI pattern I've described in the Perspectives list. Please consider making these icons behave consistently.

I'm a designer myself, so watching this platform grow is very exciting from a design standpoint, and I want to thank Omni for hearing its users and being so transparent. I'd be happy to discuss this further.

I'm also a bit late to commenting. My apologies as I just now saw the video.

Generally, I'd also point to the Mac version as a better example of the UI layout.

I resonate with some comments from others. I'd like to see a better use of space; there's a lot of whitespace (grey) on the video. I'd also like to see a way to see the projects/folders/groups listed on the left. I'd like to be able to drag items from the right pane to the appropriate box on the left when processing the inbox. This could also allow multiple drag/delete as in the iPad mail application.

I'm looking forward to the iPad version. Thanks for all your work!

[QUOTE=mytreeoutside;78812]I'd highly recommend placing them left of the project/folder icon, and acting in the same way as they do in Finder and OmniOutliner.[/QUOTE]

Consider use cases where you're standing up and have nothing to rest your iPad on. Controls near the edge of the screen can be tapped while still holding the device with both hands, steering-wheel style.

A finder-like location works well in portrait, but not as well in landscape. You'd have to reach all the way over the sidebar, or let go with one hand.

Letting go with one hand is easily done.

Mail has almost all of its controls on the left side. I find it easy to hold in my left and tap with my right, or vice versa.

Two handed usage is likely but not the only model, and optimizing for two-handed usage would be a mistake.

Another example of an interface I like is the RSS app Reeder for iPad. It puts several main controls on the left (under your thumb), but also includes additional controls on the top right. I find it works remarkably well.

Good point Brian, and I appreciate the thought put into this. However, FWIW, controls are already (and inevitably) placed outside of 'steering wheel' reach; ie: action check boxes, the gear icon and a few other upper toolbar buttons.
I'm OK with it being on the right side if that's final, and I would keep my suggestion then that the arrow should point into the row that it's disclosing. But overall it's lovely :)

I suggest hiring a quality UI designer or consultant. OF in all of it's platforms is functional but somewhat awkward and asthetically bland and unappealing. I understand that at heart GTD is about GTDing, but it sure helps me to GTD when I love the app I'm working with.

[QUOTE=Yata-Hey;79083]I suggest hiring a quality UI designer or consultant. OF in all of it's platforms is functional but somewhat awkward and asthetically bland and unappealing. I understand that at heart GTD is about GTDing, but it sure helps me to GTD when I love the app I'm working with.[/QUOTE]

I second that, it´s clear that far too many of the design decisions are done by engineers

4 second reply ....

.... Make it look like Things

[QUOTE=Dogsbreath;79136]4 second reply ....

.... Make it look like Things[/QUOTE]


Please don't.

[QUOTE=jasong;79144]Please don't.[/QUOTE]

Pretty Please Don't......

Pretty please give version 2 ????
I want Tags and Priorities !

Big-time seconded for tags. Not against priorities, but don't have a use for them myself.

I would use tags as a substitute for flagging. Do now, do tonight, Thursday... Short-term timing of when I'm ready to actually get stuff accomplished. Flagging is too limiting.

Haha, I laughed when I saw that 4 second video!
 

I just watched that 4 second video, and I can't believe my eyes. I'll admit, Omnifocus was never known as being the prettiest GTD tool. But this iPad mockup has to be a joke! Everything about it is wrong, so much so that I can't even criticise. It's like asking "hey, take a look at this piece of [crap], what's so ugly about it?" Umm..IDK, it's brown? should be blue? No..it would still look like [crap]!

No offense Brian, but this is subpar work. If the released app looks like this, I will not only NOT buy it, I will move over to Things. Maybe that's where the party is at these days?

You want constructive criticism? Take the night off. Heck, take the weekend off. Have a nice 4th of July, drink some beers, enjoy the fireworks, Don't think about Omnifocus for iPad. And on Tuesday, delete the entire app and start from square one. I'm dead serious, SQUARE ONE.

My advice, get rid of these new UI elements, port the iphone app, add a few photorealistic graphics like binder rings, or torn pages, and shovel this app out the door already.

Sorry to be harsh, but I've been anxiously awaiting this app for my ipad, and I'm shocked that this is what I'm waiting for!

[QUOTE=doodiebrad;79555]I just watched that 4 second video, and I can't believe my eyes. I'll admit, Omnifocus was never known as being the prettiest GTD tool. But this iPad mockup has to be a joke! Everything about it is wrong, so much so that I can't even criticise. It's like asking "hey, take a look at this piece of $hit, what's so ugly about it?" Umm..IDK, it's brown? should be blue? No..it would still look like $hit!

No offense Brian, but this is subpar work. If the released app looks like this, I will not only NOT buy it, I will move over to Things. Maybe that's where the party is at these days?

You want constructive criticism? Take the night off. Heck, take the weekend off. Have a nice 4th of July, drink some beers, enjoy the fireworks, Don't think about Omnifocus for iPad. And on Tuesday, delete the entire app and start from square one. I'm dead serious, SQUARE ONE.

My advice, get rid of these new UI elements, port the iphone app, add a few photorealistic graphics like binder rings, or torn pages, and shovel this app out the door already.

Sorry to be harsh, but I've been anxiously awaiting this app for my ipad, and I'm shocked that this is what I'm waiting for![/QUOTE]

Keep taking the meds won't you...

Doodiebrad, you'll have to judge for yourself when the final app is released, but Ken's intention in showing that video was to give folks a peek into the functionality the app will have. The UI work there was very rough and early.

The basic concepts on display there haven't (and almost certainly won't) change - the color scheme is darker than the iphone app, and there are still grouped scrolling rows for your actions. We've refined and iterated and polished the details a ton since then, though. The app in that video doesn't look much like the one I'm testing every day.

I can't predict whether the final product will be to your taste. I do know it's some of the best work we've done and that I'm extremely proud of it. In the end, I think making stuff that way is a better choice than making stuff we don't believe in just to try and win some kudos on the Internet.

The biggest thing we learned from that video was that in the absence of context, tiny bits of information don't inform; they confuse and distract. We'll make a lot more information available when the app launches. I'm sure we'll get plenty of feedback at that point, and I look forward to yours along with everyone else's. :-)

[QUOTE=RiK;79561]Keep taking the meds won't you...[/QUOTE]

RiK, thank you for defending us, but it would be a huge favor if you could refrain from doing so by resorting to ad hominem attacks. I do agree that Doodiebrad's tone wasn't particularly mature, but I'm hoping that we can reduce that kind of thing over time by setting a good example.

Honestly, I have been buying OmniGroup software since 2002 (January 28th, 2002 - OmniGraffle & OmniWeb if you must know $89.90) and they have NEVER put out a unusable or ugly application.

The have always been well designed, trending towards function over form, simplicity and usability instead of eye candy (Maybe Sparkle?).

To that end, for over 8.5 years, I trust OmniGroup, its leadership and their software development skills.

BZ

[QUOTE=BwanaZulia;79574]Honestly, I have been buying OmniGroup software since 2002 (January 28th, 2002 - OmniGraffle & OmniWeb if you must know $89.90) and they have NEVER put out a unusable or ugly application.

The have always been well designed, trending towards function over form, simplicity and usability instead of eye candy (Maybe Sparkle?).

BZ[/QUOTE]

I couldn't agree with you more. I agree that OF may not be the most visually sparkling task application, but it's highly functional, efficient, and flexible.

This reminds me of my earlier days as audiophile. I used to buy equipments that might not have great visual appeal but sounded superb, and some of my friends always gravitated toward looks over sound. Guess, who had a better listening experience with their equipments?

You have to look at the substance sometimes to see the true quality of engineering.

Poor Ken must regret posting that 4-second video clip :) I for one am just looking forward to seeing the new product. I love the new iPhone app and am confident that the iPad app will be great.

Not sure if this would ever be a possibility, but the idea of assigning a task to more than one context would be a nice feature - it might not work without some significant changes to OF database structure, but would be a great feature.

I think a lot of people would love to see a nice looking UI like in Things - it is pretty cute and useful and would be 'wow' with the power of OF in background :D

[QUOTE=Brian;79573]RiK, thank you for defending us, but it would be a huge favor if you could refrain from doing so by resorting to ad hominem attacks. I do agree that Doodiebrad's tone wasn't particularly mature, but I'm hoping that we can reduce that kind of thing over time by setting a good example.[/QUOTE]

Yes of course, sorry about that, bit of a knee-jerk reaction to a post that I though was totally out of order.

I'm both a former s/w developer myself and a big Omni fan. I'm also very firmly in the camp of trusting you guys to do a great job, and I'm happy to wait as long as it takes to get the best app.

[QUOTE=BwanaZulia;79574]Honestly, I have been buying OmniGroup software since 2002 (January 28th, 2002 - OmniGraffle & OmniWeb if you must know $89.90) and they have NEVER put out a unusable or ugly application.

The have always been well designed, trending towards function over form, simplicity and usability instead of eye candy (Maybe Sparkle?).

To that end, for over 8.5 years, I trust OmniGroup, its leadership and their software development skills.

BZ[/QUOTE]

Sitting in a plane with people starting to ask about professional usability
Of the iPad, OmniGraffle is making the deal for all of them.
Keep on riding..

[QUOTE=Brian;79572]The UI work there was very rough and early.[/QUOTE]

I was not aware of this. I thought the whole "4 second video" was being presented as a beta or even gm product. You guys said it would launch in June 2010, and it is now July 3, so i think that was a safe assumption to make.

Going forward, I highly advise not releasing anything to the public that isn't polished from a graphic design perspective. In this age of iOS, the public not only demands functionality but a slick UI for their $20 or $40 or whatever.

If i worked at Omnifocus, i would quickly release a still mockup of what the finished product might look like. We don't care so much about videos, we know how the iPad works. We want to see nice mockup, with graphics, and icons, not some 4 second mess of a video (no offense, but that video was a mess).

Well, I'll reserve judgement, and give you guys the benefit of the doubt, because i love your iPhone and iMac versions.

Agreed!

Mockup! Mockup! Mockup! Mockup!
(sorry for being impatient)

I'm sure that a lot of people will leave Things (because of their slow development and the missing cloudsync), if the new UI is 'sexy' like the one of Things ;)

I want it to be "beautiful", too (actually, I don't have that much of a problem with the current UI). More importantly, in terms of function, I want it to be the best it can possibly be. All that still doesn't keep me from wanting to "pester".....and ask "When?....approximately when?" Please, please, please!.....even the tiniest of 'hints' will do for me! I'll even take a 'vague' answer ( although not quite as vague as Ken's last post on the blog- ;) ). Maybe you can't do that....but it doesn't keep me from wishing!! Sorry to bother so...but...this IS the age of "instant gratification"....and I fall victim to that much more than I like to say.:o

Sure, the functions are more important :D

And I think it will be in 1,5-2 weeks in the AppStore ;)

Omnifocus for iPad
 

All this talk about things for iPad looking good. I can say because I own the crappy app. That is all it has going for it. You can't even make a recurring to do in the damn thing. A pretty UI does not make a useful app. I found this out the hard way by going with Things for the Mac, iPhone, iPad. Then listening to David Sparks on Mac Power Users talk about Omnifocus and realizing it was exactly what I needed.

I have Things on my Mac, iPhone, and iPad. I also have OmniFocus on my Mac, iPhone, and iPad. Having the opportunity to use all of them I prefer to use OF hands down for the functionality.

As for the UI - I like the looks of OF on my Mac the most. I don't know why everyone says the Things looks so great, just doesn't do it for me.