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-   -   The "inbox" and "quick entry" buttons really annoy me! (http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=18585)

doodiebrad 2010-10-17 10:38 AM

The "inbox" and "quick entry" buttons really annoy me!
 
Hey Omnigroup,
For the record, I use the Mac, iphone, and iPad versions of Omnifocus, so to preempt any of those who will call me a "whiner" for posting this, I've paid a lot of money to the omnigroup, and simply want them to make their OF for ipad product a little more visually appealing.

This part of the UI annoys me:
[IMG]https://www.me.com/ro/propynyl/Galleries/100088/omnifocuscrop/web.jpg?ver=12873402530001[/IMG]

1) Either use symbols, or text, or both. But keep it consistent! If the right button says Inbox, the left should say "New item" or something.
2) the two icons should be on the same level, the bottom pixels should line up.
3) These icons are so generic and ugly.

IDK, I just wish the OF for iPad version looked nicer, like the app: "A stunning To Do list." I only use this app because it syncs up with my iphone and desktop, but it really isn't very polished looking.

whpalmer4 2010-10-17 10:58 AM

The missing pic in your post annoys me :p

Why don't you upload it to imageshack.us instead of tying up space on your MobileMe disk?

hypotyposis 2010-10-18 11:56 AM

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;87602]The missing pic in your post annoys me :p

Why don't you upload it to imageshack.us instead of tying up space on your MobileMe disk?[/QUOTE]

Bill, you're assuming the little blue icon with a white interrogation mark stands for a missing picture, perhaps it's what doodiebrad is getting at? That would annoy me too! [never mind, just procrastinating instead of studying for the next exam...]

whpalmer4 2010-10-18 11:59 AM

[QUOTE=hypotyposis;87663]Bill, you're assuming the little blue icon with a white interrogation mark stands for a missing picture, perhaps it's what doodiebrad is getting at? That would annoy me too! [never mind, just procrastinating instead of studying for the next exam...][/QUOTE]
Nah, if you look at the page source, there's a link to a MobileMe image gallery there, so I think he did want to show us something, and it probably works fine from his browser, just not anyone else's.

rogbar 2010-10-18 05:51 PM

Unless I read his post wrong, I think he's referring to the two icons you see when you hit the Omnifocus button in the upper left: the New Item icon (a pencil over a square, with no text), and the Inbox icon ( a yellow square with text over it). The bottom of the Inbox icon's square is lower than the New Item icon's square.

Yes, it seems a little odd to have one with text and one without, but I must confess it doesn't bother me a whole lot. And to say that OF's look isn't "polished" has me scratching my head. I think it's one of the slickest-looking apps anywhere.

moons 2010-10-19 05:22 AM

I sort of agree but its not a big deal until you sort out a consistent look & functionality - as much as possible - between all platforms.

OmniFocus looks ok & performs ok on all platforms it just doesnt look or perform as good as a Mac OS or iOS app should do.

Im a recent OmniF convert and i cannot deny the app is good but i would love it if more attention would be paid to the UI - for next release.

iPhone version - looks clean and i only wish the way action details are entered were more polished. Plus want perspectives, forecast and review functions.

iPad - needs alot of refining. Its not ugly but its def not pretty either. It's a borderline dated look.

Mac - very dated! Only on trial at the moment. Even though it works well I wouldnt buy it the way it looks now (+price).

brt 2010-10-19 09:02 AM

I don't want to comment on the subjective comments, as I have no problem with the way it looks, but I am curious about the mention of the icons not lining up. On my interface, the icons do line up, top and bottom. I even eyeballed it with a piece of paper.

Am I missing something on this?

whpalmer4 2010-10-19 09:11 AM

The big icons line up, but the graphics inside them (the check box on the left, and the box containing the inbox action count on the right) do not.

rogbar 2010-10-19 09:12 AM

The icons do line up - it's the yellow squares inside the icons that he has a problem with: the yellow square on the left with the pencil across it, and the yellow square on the right that shows the number of items in the InBox (if there are no items in the In Box, you don't get the square).

doodiebrad 2010-10-19 01:52 PM

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;87602]The missing pic in your post annoys me :p

Why don't you upload it to imageshack.us instead of tying up space on your MobileMe disk?[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/9089/webn.jpg[/IMG]

Sorry, this was the image I originally intended to post. Oh come on, this doesn't look good! And it is constantly in your face.

hypotyposis 2010-10-20 03:10 PM

[QUOTE=doodiebrad;87723][IMG]http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/9089/webn.jpg[/IMG]

Sorry, this was the image I originally intended to post. Oh come on, this doesn't look good! And it is constantly in your face.[/QUOTE]

OK, I see what you mean, and although it's not a huge bother to me, I tend to agree.

RiK 2010-10-20 04:48 PM

To be honest, I really hadn't even thought about it until you raised it in this thread. Now it's practically leaping off the page!

Can't say it really bothers me that much though, plenty of other tweaks which would be much higher priority.

hollywood 2010-10-21 09:38 AM

[QUOTE=doodiebrad;87723][IMG]http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/9089/webn.jpg[/IMG]

Sorry, this was the image I originally intended to post. Oh come on, this doesn't look good! And it is constantly in your face.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the feedback, folks - I did want to point out that you can rotate your iPad to portrait to keep this particular bit of UI out of your way until you need it.

Of course if you feel strongly about this and would like to propose a change, we're happy to receive your feedback - just send it to us [EMAIL="omnifocus-ipad@omnigroup.com"]ninjas[/EMAIL] and we be sure it gets filed where our UI team can see it.

doodiebrad 2010-10-22 07:00 AM

[QUOTE=hollywood;87811]Thanks for the feedback, folks - I did want to point out that you can rotate your iPad to portrait to keep this particular bit of UI out of your way until you need it.

Of course if you feel strongly about this and would like to propose a change, we're happy to receive your feedback - just send it to us [EMAIL="omnifocus-ipad@omnigroup.com"]ninjas[/EMAIL] and we be sure it gets filed where our UI team can see it.[/QUOTE]

Haha, that's some answer. Rotate it into portrait and you won't see it anymore? That's almost like admitting it's ugly. Furthmore, when you need tp input actions, you'll run into it again.

Why doesn't omnigroup just use the iPhone icons? Or hire a developer with some good taste to give OF for iPad a bit of a facelift?

I'm sorry to sound so harsh, but my criticism comes from a place of love. I have higher standards for Omnigroup! This is one of the centralized elements in your GUI, and it's pretty hard to debate that it is anything other than a bit sloppy. Most people will either say they don't like it, or that it doesn't bother them, but I doubt few would say "hey, I like the inconsistent, generic look of these icons "

Look at your competitors Omnigroup. Your app may be the most functional, but theirs are much more visually appealing (a stunning todo). And by adding a few features here or there, theirs will become better looking, cheaper, ad eventually as functional.

I love OF for iPhone and Mac, and I expect better out of OF for iPad! These icons are just sloppy. Please fix them (I'll forward this to your ninja email

whpalmer4 2010-10-22 07:51 AM

[QUOTE=doodiebrad;87854]Haha, that's some answer. Rotate it into portrait and you won't see it anymore? That's almost like admitting it's ugly. Furthmore, when you need tp input actions, you'll run into it again.
[/quote]
It's a practical answer aimed at people who have difficulty overlooking such things. You can stop looking at it immediately. You will not be able to get a new icon in less than two weeks even if they wanted to drop everything and change it, because that is about how long it would take to get the build through the App Store approval process.
[quote]

Why doesn't omnigroup just use the iPhone icons? Or hire a developer with some good taste to give OF for iPad a bit of a facelift?
[/quote]
De gustibus non disputandum est. As far as I know, the same gent designed both sets of icons...
[quote]

Look at your competitors Omnigroup. Your app may be the most functional, but theirs are much more visually appealing (a stunning todo). And by adding a few features here or there, theirs will become better looking, cheaper, ad eventually as functional.

[/QUOTE]

Uh, right, because as we all know, it will be much harder for Omni to tune up the icons than it will be for Things to add cloud sync :)

doodiebrad 2010-10-22 08:20 AM

[QUOTE]Uh, right, because as we all know, it will be much harder for Omni to tune up the icons than it will be for Things to add cloud sync :)[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/9089/webn.jpg[/IMG]

The difference is that Things admits that it is activly working on cloud sync, but Omnigroup seems to be under some sort of delusion that OF for iPad is beautiful and polished.

I'm an OF user, and say what you want about Things, but they don't have big huge icons that are inconsistent and askew. In time, other platforms will add features, and will eventually be on parity with OF for iPad. But if people like me don't point out esthetic flaws, then I'm not sure Omnigroup will recognize that they exist?

IMO, before adding ANY new features, Omnigroup needs to refine the esthetics of the GUI, starting with these two icons

patgallant 2010-10-22 08:22 AM

I personally like the new icons. So fair enough if you don't like them, but there are those that do.

As for Things and cloud sync, well that's just hopeless ;)

doodiebrad 2010-10-22 08:26 AM

[QUOTE=patgallant;87857]I personally like the new icons. So fair enough if you don't like them, but there are those that do.

As for Things and cloud sync, well that's just hopeless ;)[/QUOTE]

Some people liked disco :D ...jk..hehe

Brian 2010-10-22 10:04 AM

[QUOTE=doodiebrad;87854]Most people will either say they don't like it, or that it doesn't bother them, but I doubt few would say "hey, I like the inconsistent, generic look of these icons "[/QUOTE]

I know how irksome the small things can be when you're using a piece of software; I do sympathize.

However, aside from this thread, we've gotten basically zero feedback about this part of the UI. In fact, the vast majority of the feedback is simply "the iPad app is great, please make the other apps more like it". Looking at the emails about suggested changes to the UI, these buttons aren't anywhere on that list.

It appears that, for the vast majority of customers, these buttons are working just fine for them as they are. When that's the case, spending time on something like this would be a disservice to them.

I know this bothers you individually, and I am really sorry about that; sometimes it can be painful to be an outlier. :-)

doodiebrad 2010-10-22 11:50 AM

[QUOTE=Brian;87860]I know how irksome the small things can be when you're using a piece of software; I do sympathize.

However, aside from this thread, we've gotten basically zero feedback about this part of the UI. In fact, the vast majority of the feedback is simply "the iPad app is great, please make the other apps more like it". Looking at the emails about suggested changes to the UI, these buttons aren't anywhere on that list.

It appears that, for the vast majority of customers, these buttons are working just fine for them as they are. When that's the case, spending time on something like this would be a disservice to them.

I know this bothers you individually, and I am really sorry about that; sometimes it can be painful to be an outlier. :-)[/QUOTE]

Sometimes "the masses" aren't always right. When you spend $40 on an app, you tend to want to see past its flaws and like it more to justify your purchase.

If Steve Jobs listened to "the masses," than our macs would still have floppy drives and our iPads would run adobe flash (and have a 2 hour battery life). The masses don't ALWAYS know what's best.

Taste may be subjective, and if you think this looks good, then by all means don't change it! You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink (and my earlier post was about how I think Omnigroup truly believes that OF for iPad is polished and attractive)

I just happen to like This:

[IMG]http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1524/todoforipadscreenshot00.jpg[/IMG]

and this:

[IMG]http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/1524/todoforipadscreenshot00.jpg[/IMG]

more than this:

[IMG]http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/8080/ofipadnewreviewmode.png[/IMG]


But hey, it's your product! You should be wanting to polish it, not me!

RiK 2010-10-22 12:50 PM

[QUOTE=doodiebrad;87865] You should be wanting to polish it, not me![/QUOTE]

Man, I would HATE it if OF looked anything like that. Totally style over substance. I'm using a computer, I have absolutely no need or desire for it to look like a ring binder. How much screen space is wasted on those rings!

rogbar 2010-10-22 12:55 PM

I agree with Rik. Circus Ponies Ponies Notebook, Aquaminds Notetaker, and others are lovely to look at it, but I wound up using OmniOutliner and Devonthink instead, because of their functionality. One of the things I love about OmniFocus is that the emphasis is not on eye candy, but on how it works.

That said, I have to also say that I really LIKE how it looks. It's clean, slick, uncluttered and functional. The disparity between the two small yellow boxes that so troubles doodiebrad is totally insignificant to me. Different strokes for different folks ...

doodiebrad 2010-10-22 01:15 PM

[QUOTE=rogbar;87874]One of the things I love about OmniFocus is that the emphasis is not on eye candy, but on how it works. [/QUOTE]

You can't have both?

Brian 2010-10-22 01:23 PM

I think the "Design Considerations" section of [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeuomorph"]this page[/URL] does a decent job of laying out the pros and cons of the sort of UI design being employed in those examples.

We do want our apps to be functional and attractive, but we don't feel they should attempt to mimic real-world items that closely. As much as possible, we'd like to use the screen real estate to display the customers' content.

doodiebrad 2010-10-22 02:14 PM

[QUOTE=Brian;87879] We'd like to use the screen real estate to display the customers' content.[/QUOTE]

And you think you've accomplished this goal? Take a look at how much space is wasted! Huge fonts, indentations, black space. This is just an excuse.

[IMG]http://images.intomobile.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/omnifocus-ipad.jpg[/IMG]

I mean, I'm not trying to bust your bawls here, I just think you guys can do better. As someone who has paid $140 to your company, I think it is within my right to offer constructive criticism in the face of denial.

atreinke 2010-10-22 02:48 PM

I have to agree with doodiebrad on the looks of the two boxes, I honestly don't think that they match the style of the rest of the app, and at a minimum - they should at least be designed to either look alike or compliment each other (although I am sure that there are many that feel they already do). It is all in personal taste.

As for the look of the other apps, I prefer the look of the iPad OF app over those hands down. BUT, as I stated awhile back when the quick peek video of the iPad app first came out before the actual release, I still like the look of the Mac OF app the best and still wish that they could both look like that.

gopi 2010-10-23 08:35 PM

[QUOTE=doodiebrad;87885]And you think you've accomplished this goal? Take a look at how much space is wasted! Huge fonts, indentations, black space. This is just an excuse.

I mean, I'm not trying to bust your bawls here, I just think you guys can do better. As someone who has paid $140 to your company, I think it is within my right to offer constructive criticism in the face of denial.[/QUOTE]

I'm honestly surprised that I didn't notice the icon alignment issue. I see it now and it looks really obvious.

Regarding wasted space, the example you gave of an app you liked not only wasted far more space, it filled the wasted space with bright, distracting clutter.

Am I right that you are the [REDACTED] who thinks that [OMNIFOCUS IS UGLY]? (Review on the App Store, if anybody is wondering).

I'm just another customer, but, the company is The Omni Group, not Omnifocus. While you have raised some valid criticisms, the direction you want them to take is ugly and wrong, IMHO. If they built their apps to more closely resemble the apps that you say you like, I would be *less likely* to give them money in the future.

You are entitled to your opinion, and I encourage you to express your ideas for the app's future. However, language that implies that your aesthetic sense is objectively superior and that the app is clearly ugly is silly.

endoftheQ 2010-10-24 03:51 AM

I'm sorry, but IMHO, the UI is ugly, not from a taste point-of-view but in that it looks cobbled together by half-a-dozen different people from bits-and-pieces downloaded from [URL="http://www.iconshock.com/"]iconshock[/URL]! It would be understandable if this was a 59p (99˘) App but at $40 a serious bit of polish wouldn't go amiss.

No, OmniFocus doesn't have to start visually imitating a [I]filofax®[/I] although I can certainly appreciate that those who bought it as a task manager or shopping list App rather than a GTD system might be somewhat disappointed observing that much cheaper rivals look so [I]much[/I] better because they do imitate such physical entities. It also undoubtedly makes those Apps much easier to comprehend and use for non-GTD'ers.

I've never designed a UI in my life (step in here, Policarpo!) but just looking at OF on my iPhone (apologies, my iPad isn't to hand) I think a start would certainly be some consistency across all three versions, reverse the foolish decision to box up the icons with a tonally-similar dark grey background (sadly even search has finally suffered the same fate), get rid of the [I]radial[/I] fill in [I]square[/I] check boxes which just makes them look grubby, etc. etc. etc.

Hell, even some consistency in the same App would be great. OK, maybe not, I don't want the perspective icons boxed up too!

The saving grace? The inbox icon on the iPhone looks like the view you get pushing an old fashioned peramulator, [I]that[/I] at least still makes me smile! :)

Yata-Hey 2010-10-25 11:55 AM

My two cents added: The UI is not efficient in its use of screen real estate nor is it especially appealing to me asthetically - though it is functional. I have paid for and use OF in all three renditions because it is presently the best GTD app concerning features and syncing. On the iPad, I would like to see the new item screen shed the multi-tabs and cut down on the steps/time needed to fill in item info (very inefficient). My thinking is that if the OG is going to waste screen real estate, at least make it pretty :).

cpac 2010-10-25 01:02 PM

My own 2 cents
 
I'm a longtime Omni fan (started using Omniweb back in the 10.0 days, when we eagerly downloaded sp after sp).

Anyway, I've read the thread and had a few observations:

(1) I agree the the two icons in question are rather generic and that some consistency would be welcome.

but

(2) I question whether the "Inbox" and the "New Item" should have similar special status at the top of side-bar (or pop-up side-bar). My thinking is as follows:

-The Inbox is yet another way to view tasks. It ought to be down with projects, etc. like it is in OF for iPhone, no?

-The New Item icon is redundant. We already have a new item "plus" in the upper right that's visible from everywhere except the "Map" view. That should be plenty.

I whole heartedly disagree with any of the statements suggesting OF iPad isn't beautiful and polished - I think it is. But fixing (or removing) these icons is something that ought to be on the list of improvements for 1.2 or 1.3

ksrhee 2010-10-26 01:28 AM

[QUOTE=gopi;87929]I'm honestly surprised that I didn't notice the icon alignment issue. I see it now and it looks really obvious.

Regarding wasted space, the example you gave of an app you liked not only wasted far more space, it filled the wasted space with bright, distracting clutter.

Am I right that you are the [REDACTED] who thinks that [OMNIFOCUS IS UGLY]? (Review on the App Store, if anybody is wondering).

I'm just another customer, but, the company is The Omni Group, not Omnifocus. While you have raised some valid criticisms, the direction you want them to take is ugly and wrong, IMHO. If they built their apps to more closely resemble the apps that you say you like, I would be *less likely* to give them money in the future.

You are entitled to your opinion, and I encourage you to express your ideas for the app's future. However, language that implies that your aesthetic sense is objectively superior and that the app is clearly ugly is silly.[/QUOTE]

I agree. I think he had made his point that the current interface doesn't suit his taste nor is desired by him, but to harp on this issue and trying to convince everyone of his points doesn't seem to be helpful nor objective.

I for one likes the interface, and all those empty spaces are what makes it easier to look at the tasks quickly. I don't want to spend a lot of time in OF looking at the tasks - in fact, you want to minimize the time you spend on OF and maximize the time you spend on your tasks! That's how you get things done.

The alignment issue doesn't bother me, and I in fact like having those big buttons for quick entry and inbox (shows me I need to process the items, and it can't be missed).

Just another perspective from another user.

doodiebrad 2010-10-26 10:49 AM

[QUOTE=Yata-Hey;87997]My thinking is that if the OG is going to waste screen real estate, at least make it pretty :).[/QUOTE]

My thinking exactly.

policarpo 2010-10-26 10:58 AM

OmniFocus is a prime example of Function not in harmony with Form.

Things is a prime example of Form and Function in harmony.

gopi 2010-10-26 11:22 AM

[QUOTE=policarpo;88044]OmniFocus is a prime example of Function not in harmony with Form.

Things is a prime example of Form and Function in harmony.[/QUOTE]

I haven't used Things for iPad, I've only looked at screen shots. Do you think it's accurate to say that they're trying for a similar aesthetic? (as opposed to the app that doodiebrad posted, which was trying for lots of visual cues showing real world stuff)

policarpo 2010-10-26 12:34 PM

[QUOTE=gopi;88045]I haven't used Things for iPad, I've only looked at screen shots. Do you think it's accurate to say that they're trying for a similar aesthetic? (as opposed to the app that doodiebrad posted, which was trying for lots of visual cues showing real world stuff)[/QUOTE]

Well, I think Things is the only app which feels like Things on all platforms and devices when I am using them. With OmniFocus I feel like I am in totally different UX spaces when I am using them.

Task Managers are about focus and capturing data, so in the end it's really about the display of information, and striking a balance between the density of presenting this information and eliciting a sense of purpose and enjoyment for the user when they are deep in the processing of these tasks. It's at the core of design principles and I think CC really thought long and hard about how to balance Form & Function within their apps.

Having used enough GTD systems, I've come down to some central needs I look for:

. Have a trusted system which works for me
. Capture my needs
. Enjoy using it daily
. Rinse & Repeat

These are just my opinions of course. :)

ksrhee 2010-10-26 04:13 PM

[QUOTE=policarpo;88044]OmniFocus is a prime example of Function not in harmony with Form.

Things is a prime example of Form and Function in harmony.[/QUOTE]

I couldn't disagree more here!

My experience has been "Things is a prime example of Form over Function." I don't remember how many times I have to work around the system in order for my work flow to work. Also, the system is not as efficient as OF so that I was spending more time in Things than actually getting things done . . .

policarpo 2010-10-26 04:44 PM

[QUOTE=ksrhee;88060]I couldn't disagree more here!

My experience has been "Things is a prime example of Form over Function." I don't remember how many times I have to work around the system in order for my work flow to work. Also, the system is not as efficient as OF so that I was spending more time in Things than actually getting things done . . .[/QUOTE]

I dunno, I think it takes about 3 weeks to get comfortable with either OmniFocus or Things...and after that, it's smooth sailing.

doodiebrad 2010-10-27 02:47 PM

@Brian and @hollywood and @Omnigroup in general:

To bring things back to my original post...with a simple "yes" or "no."

Do you like the way this looks?

[IMG]http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/9089/webn.jpg[/IMG]

Just curious.

Thanks!
-DB

rogbar 2010-10-27 03:13 PM

I don't mind how it looks. But to bring us back to the original title of the thread "GUI element that REALLY annoys me" ...

Does it "REALLY annoy me"? No.

I won't try to convince you it looks good ... why do you seem so intent on convincing the rest of us it looks bad?

Different strokes ...

endoftheQ 2010-10-27 03:26 PM

[QUOTE=rogbar;88149]Different strokes ...[/QUOTE]

I guess it's like a key scratch on a Ferrari, for some it's just "meh!". :rolleyes:

gopi 2010-10-27 06:56 PM

[QUOTE=doodiebrad;88148]Do you like the way this looks?
[/QUOTE]

Not really, but it isn't something that has really bugged me.

How would you make them balanced, since one has text and one doesn't?

gopi 2010-10-27 07:23 PM

2 Attachment(s)
I've attached two quick image versions I did. One of them has the pen icon enlarged to match the size of the Inbox, the other has the Inbox shrunken down to match the original size of the pen icon.

whpalmer4 2010-10-27 09:24 PM

It's funny, the icons don't bother me at all, but have a look at how "Today 10/27" spills out of the edges of the box in the Forecast view — now that really bugs me! The icons were a conscious choice, but it is hard to believe this is, and I bet if OmniFocus for iPad had been a few months later, this wouldn't have made it into the shipping product.

ksrhee 2010-10-27 11:24 PM

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;88161]It's funny, the icons don't bother me at all, but have a look at how "Today 10/27" spills out of the edges of the box in the Forecast view — now that really bugs me! The icons were a conscious choice, but it is hard to believe this is, and I bet if OmniFocus for iPad had been a few months later, this wouldn't have made it into the shipping product.[/QUOTE]

The icons don't bother me at all. However, I did notice the same thing Bill did. It did annoy me at first, but then I started ignoring it, and it doesn't bother me at all now.

As I said, these days I try to spend the least amount of time in OF for planning and reviewing and more time getting things done.

So, I try not to focus on the areas don't contribute to my planning/reviewing. OF allows me to do this with minimal distractions or without "forced" work-arounds due to lack of features or incomplete implementations in other programs.

Ken

Brian 2010-10-28 04:41 PM

Not every element inside every chunk of screen has to line up with some other element in an adjacent part of the screen. Buttons have borders so they can align properly regardless of what the contents do.

Just because the Inbox button has text - to help differentiate it from the other "tap this and show me a list of items" areas on the screen - doesn't mean that the New Item button needs text, too. Tap that button one time and you realize it does something different.

Returning to your original point... As gopi's screenshots illustrate, trying to make the yellow portions of each button "line up" or "match" produces a quick entry button that's crowded by the borders in one case, and an inbox counter that's vertically challenged and looks bad in the other.

We understand you'd prefer something different here doodiebrad, but whatever time we spend making a change here could be used working on the other things which larger groups of customers have told us they want.

We got a small number of passionate emails telling us that the new icons and art we added to the iPhone app a while ago were a huge step backwards. If they shouted the loudest, should we have listened? :-)

doodiebrad 2010-10-28 07:26 PM

[QUOTE=Brian;88203]Not every element inside every chunk of screen has to line up with some other element in an adjacent part of the screen. Buttons have borders so they can align properly regardless of what the contents do.

Just because the Inbox button has text - to help differentiate it from the other "tap this and show me a list of items" areas on the screen - doesn't mean that the New Item button needs text, too. Tap that button one time and you realize it does something different.

Returning to your original point... As gopi's screenshots illustrate, trying to make the yellow portions of each button "line up" or "match" produces a quick entry button that's crowded by the borders in one case, and an inbox counter that's vertically challenged and looks bad in the other.

We understand you'd prefer something different here doodiebrad, but whatever time we spend making a change here could be used working on the other things which larger groups of customers have told us they want.

We got a small number of passionate emails telling us that the new icons and art we added to the iPhone app a while ago were a huge step backwards. If they shouted the loudest, should we have listened? :-)[/QUOTE]

Again, it's your baby. If you think those icons look fine, then by all means keep them. But to sum this up, because I think we're beating a dead horse here, your job should be to "wow and delight" your users, not simply to add features that are "most requested" while ignoring other deficiencies in your application. You're being too easy on yourselves, you can do it ALL, form AND function. One doesn't have to sacrifice the other.

[IMG]http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/9089/webn.jpg[/IMG]

gopi 2010-10-28 07:35 PM

[QUOTE=doodiebrad;88208]Again, it's your baby. If you think those icons look fine, then by all means keep them. But to sum this up, because I think we're beating a dead horse here, your job should be to "wow and delight" your users, not simply to add features that are "most requested" while ignoring other deficiencies in your application. You're being too easy on yourselves, you can do it ALL, form AND function. One doesn't have to sacrifice the other.

[IMG]http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/9089/webn.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

So, do you have any comments on the modifications I posted? I know that the icons as they are now make you unhappy, but you have pointedly refused to comment on what you would do to change things.

GeoffAirey 2010-10-29 12:13 AM

I like having immediate access to the Inbox and to add a new task from anywhere, it means I can do it without losing my flow of where I was.

GeoffAirey 2010-10-29 12:20 AM

[QUOTE=doodiebrad;88208]Again, it's your baby. If you think those icons look fine, then by all means keep them. But to sum this up, because I think we're beating a dead horse here, your job should be to "wow and delight" your users, not simply to add features that are "most requested" while ignoring other deficiencies in your application. You're being too easy on yourselves, you can do it ALL, form AND function. One doesn't have to sacrifice the other.

[IMG]http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/9089/webn.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

No OmniFocus' job is to produce Solid products which do what they say on the tin. Yes Form AND Function is the panacea, but get 10 UI designers in a room and they'll disagree on some things.

Bottom line, does OmniFocus provide a GTD solution which works for me? Yes
Is it uncluttered and easy to use? Yes
Would the UI improvements suggested here make it easier to use? IMHO No

OF is not an impulse buy, if someone spends $40, they're going to take the time to learn how to use the App, and anyone who already does GTD will pick it up easily.

doodiebrad 2010-10-29 06:41 AM

[QUOTE=gopi;88209]So, do you have any comments on the modifications I posted? I know that the icons as they are now make you unhappy, but you have pointedly refused to comment on what you would do to change things.[/QUOTE]

Hey, didn't mean to ignore you. Your modifications are nice, but they only address the difference in pixel height. Not the generic nature of the icons, nor the inconstancy of text + icon in one and only icon in the other. Thanks for trying.

cgriffin 2010-10-29 06:44 AM

TBH, I never noticed the issue of the icons not lining up along the bottom, but now that it's been pointed out, it does seem a bit awkward. It's not something that prevents me from using the app, of course, but it might be nice to address it.

Out of gopi's two mockups, I prefer the one on the left, but actually I would address it a different way. Make the two boxes the same size. The one on the left can be just like it is now, with the pen. As to the one on the right, rather than say 'Inbox' above it, which causes the issue by pushing the box down, just put the word 'Inbox' inside it when the inbox is empty, and have the number of inbox items when it's not empty. I can't draw, but what about something like:

[URL=http://img251.imageshack.us/i/ofinbox.png/][IMG]http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/8940/ofinbox.th.png[/IMG][/URL]

Uploaded with [URL=http://imageshack.us]ImageShack.us[/URL]

cpac 2010-10-29 09:57 AM

I think putting the text inside the box confuses things further, since the one box represents a task and the other a container for tasks. Two things with very different functions shouldn't look the same.

Again, I wonder whether these buttons are necessary at all. Why not just rely on the plus in the upper right for new items, and keep the Inbox, like the other "containers" of tasks an item in the vertical list like it is in the iPhone app?

gopi 2010-10-29 01:17 PM

[QUOTE=doodiebrad;88227]Hey, didn't mean to ignore you. Your modifications are nice, but they only address the difference in pixel height. Not the generic nature of the icons, nor the inconstancy of text + icon in one and only icon in the other. Thanks for trying.[/QUOTE]

I was hoping you might have a preference of some kind :)

ksrhee 2010-10-30 01:46 AM

[QUOTE=cpac;88241]I think putting the text inside the box confuses things further, since the one box represents a task and the other a container for tasks. Two things with very different functions shouldn't look the same.

Again, I wonder whether these buttons are necessary at all. Why not just rely on the plus in the upper right for new items, and keep the Inbox, like the other "containers" of tasks an item in the vertical list like it is in the iPhone app?[/QUOTE]

I for one like having these on the left side when the program is on the landscape since I can quickly enter the new items. Depending on where you are, the "plus" button requires an additional step.

As far as these two boxes are looking different or not aligned, it's a non-issue for me. More I think about it, more I like them to be different since my eyes can zoom it on the box I want right away instead having to differentiate the two boxes. Now you might say it's a mili-second thing, but when you are in a hurry, every little thing helps.


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