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-   -   Will Omniplan output to pdf or print [now available in v1.1] (http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=24453)

rrkpl 2012-06-07 05:42 AM

Will Omniplan output to pdf or print [now available in v1.1]
 
Was about to buy Omniplan for iPad and wanted to know if it would output PDF files or print.

Thanks,

Richard

HappyCatMachine 2012-06-07 06:35 AM

Apparently not, that's 35 quid I'll be asking for a refund for. It only exports as OmniPlan. Like other Omni apps it also uses a cumbersome document browser as well. It looks beautiful, and isolated from anything but Omni's own apps.

CVN 2012-06-07 06:43 AM

That is a showstopper for me as well.

I wanted to try the iPad version out to se if i would use it enough to buy the Mac version. Without export features it is a no go for me.

HappyCatMachine 2012-06-07 07:23 AM

It does export to Mac OmniPlan so that might change your mind. Now that I've spent about an hour in it I have to say that it's pretty intuitive even though project management isn't a primary activity of mine.

It is painful to see Omni tout its collaborative nature when the only thing it can collaborate with is itself and its Mac's bigger brother. No DropBox support is also tragic but I've pretty much given up hope for any Omni app to talk to DropBox. There would be little point as well since nobody I work with deals in Mac.

Still, a well designed yet cross platform ignorant app. Let's hope for a version 2.

rrkpl 2012-06-07 07:31 AM

My goal was to sit down with a client an plan a project on my iPad and not have to hope the client had a Mac and OmniPlan or that I had to wait till I returned to my office (sometimes on the other coast) till I could give the client a copy of 'the plan'. That being said HappyCaTMachine, is it at least possible to take screen grabs of the reports or Gantt chart or is it a scroll thing that wouldn't fit on one page?

HappyCatMachine 2012-06-07 07:49 AM

You can scale the chart beautifully and of course take screen grabs. If that suffices for you then it would definitely be worth checking out. I've been using SG Project Pro and I can already say that OmniPlan is way more fun.

badmanj 2012-06-07 07:50 AM

Ah ok. Crying shame, rendering this entirely pointless since I don't have Omniplan on the Mac :-(

Glad I found this out before I made the mistake of purchasing.

Jamie

badmanj 2012-06-07 07:51 AM

[QUOTE=HappyCatMachine;111210]You can scale the chart beautifully and of course take screen grabs. If that suffices for you then it would definitely be worth checking out. I've been using SG Project Pro and I can already say that OmniPlan is way more fun.[/QUOTE]

But SG Project Pro produces decent reports and output as is therefore the standalone leader for project management on the iPad in my opinion...

Damn this is so disappointing.

DCaptura 2012-06-07 02:13 PM

Too Many Major Gaps
 
Like most, I sure love beautifully sexy UI elements. However, as a professional project manager, I cannot get much use out of OmniPlan for iPad. It has way too many gaps:

1. No WBS/Network features (essential steps BEFORE developing a Gantt).
2. As mentioned above in other posts, no export capability to standard formats like PDF. Silly, it's built right into iOS.
3. No export functions to popular services, like Dropbox, iCloud, etc. Also unforgivable for a tool that's supposed to be used by mobile workers, and the data shared with stakeholders.
4. No importing/Exporting of MS Project files. This is a sick joke, right? Surely a new build with this feature will be in the App Store tomorrow, right?

I could go on, and on. But why bother.

Let's hope Omnigroup (or someone else) puts out a real PM tool on iPad for a fair price before we all retire.


Cheers,

Deon Robinson, PMP
Author of: 'So You Got A New iPad. Now What?'

damorrison 2012-06-08 12:21 AM

No Export?!
 
As others have mentioned in another post, I wanted to question why there is no export functionality, and when this will be added? If the answer is no, then I'd appreciate a refund as without this, the app is utterly useless to me.

I bought this as a simple tool to help visualise to my customers what the project plan would look like in a proposal, together with resources and cost estimates. It seemed perfect, and certainly the app covers most of what I need to do, but short of capturing the gantt screen (Home Button + Power Button) - I can't use export any of the other information.

Now, I'll hold off on being disappointed or annoyed that this was a conscious (poor) design decision to get new users to upgrade to the full product until I've had a response, but I'd encourage this feature to be added or the negative feedback will undoubtedly outweigh the positive for what appears to be a good app.

glasside 2012-06-08 01:31 AM

Will there be export to pdf?
 
I was reading through a number of posts here this morning and saw that the overwhelming response to the new app is - "what no export to pdf".

Before I abandon the app I thought it might be wise to ask if indeed the intention was to add this export functionality at some point?

So - good folk from omni - will there be export to .pdf?

If there will be - when might we expect it?

I have always noticed how good omnigroup have been at listening to and responding to its users, so I'm sure we will know soon!

David

jsruzicka 2012-06-08 06:34 AM

I've been evaluating PM apps for our group and it was down to SG Project Pro and OmniPlan. We've loved OmniFocus and OmniOutline, but I agree with the others that OmniPlan's inability to create a PDF file or SOME type of printable report is really a showstopper.

We have some PC users and they'd be out in the cold. It's too bad, because the look and feel, and ease of use, of OmniPlan is, IMO, superior to SG Project Pro, but SG has a very nice output and e-mail function so in this case we're probably going to have to go with form over function.

HappyCatMachine 2012-06-08 09:56 AM

I do love Omni and their products but when so many clamour for the same thing (Dropbox) my ability to be a fan wanes. That and their anti-productive file browsers and export capabilities (Visio for OmniGraffle, a usable outline format with OmniOutliner, and now PDF for OmniPlan) coupled with their high prices feels very ugly. I used to be a Mac elitist but am not any longer. It seems that after having OG for years without Visio support that Omni just doesn't care about people who want to use their software in a cross platform environment. I hold out hope that I'm dreadfully wrong!

omniperson 2012-06-08 09:57 AM

Omni should respond on export to PDF
 
I see Omni guys on here responding to other questions yet they are silent on this simple question. Not cool.

Omni software is expensive enough that we deserve better.

I have always recommended Omni to others. But know this Omni, tides can turn rather quickly.

I know that is rather melodramatic but the point is that we pay a lot of money to shop in your store. As such, the risk is higher that user opinion sways to something negative.

Though it may not be true, it's easy to interpret the lack of pdf export as a means to force users to buy the desktop version. And that smacks of greed.

Hard to imagine a legitimate reason to leave such basic functionality out of this application.

Why be silent on this when it's clearly an issue ???

derekr 2012-06-08 10:04 AM

Thanks all! I've just added upvotes to our "Export to PDF (and more)" feature request to reflect the responses here.

I'd encourage you to send email for other feature requests, too. As always, it's appreciated.

Leif 2012-06-08 11:10 AM

There is a thread regarding this, where Omnigroup has responded [url]http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=24453[/url]

skwirl 2012-06-08 12:18 PM

Sorry that the lack of export options is a show stopper for some of you at the moment.

For 1.0, we really wanted to get the Gantt chart touch interactions and syncing with OmniPlan for the Mac working well because after talking to a lot of folks, those two were by far the most important requests. Not to worry though, Now that 1.0 has been released we don't plan on stopping! We'll definitely be working on adding import/export options as well as other features that have been requested.

As derekr mentioned above, if you have any feature requests that you'd like to see in OmniPlan for iPad, please email us. We really appreciate it!

skwirl 2012-06-08 12:22 PM

For 1.0, we really wanted to get the Gantt chart touch interactions and syncing with OmniPlan for the Mac working well because after talking to a lot of folks, those two were by far the most important requests. It was never our intention to force OmniPlan for iPad users to purchase the Mac version.

Not to worry though, Now that 1.0 has been released we don't plan on stopping! We'll definitely be working on adding import/export options as well as other features that have been requested.

If you have any feature requests that you'd like to see in OmniPlan for iPad, please email us. We really appreciate it!

DCaptura 2012-06-08 01:14 PM

Roadmap/Intro Price?
 
Why not publish your short or medium term roadmap so potential buyers know where the app is heading; in what timeframe. This helps them make a more informed choice.

Also, if Omni agrees the first release is lacking some basic much needed features like MS Project import/export and Adobe PDF export or print, why not price the app accordingly until it's fully baked?


Cheers,
Deon

[QUOTE=skwirl;111317]Sorry that the lack of export options is a show stopper for some of you at the moment.

For 1.0, we really wanted to get the Gantt chart touch interactions and syncing with OmniPlan for the Mac working well because after talking to a lot of folks, those two were by far the most important requests. Not to worry though, Now that 1.0 has been released we don't plan on stopping! We'll definitely be working on adding import/export options as well as other features that have been requested.

As derekr mentioned above, if you have any feature requests that you'd like to see in OmniPlan for iPad, please email us. We really appreciate it![/QUOTE]

Ken Case 2012-06-08 02:20 PM

[QUOTE=DCaptura;111321]Why not publish your short or medium term roadmap so potential buyers know where the app is heading; in what timeframe. This helps them make a more informed choice.[/QUOTE]

Your feedback is helping us make informed choices about our roadmap: we shipped the core functionality we knew everyone needed, and now we're listening carefully to see which things people want next.

If OmniPlan for iPad doesn't meet your needs today, we don't want to sell it to you based on future promises of what we plan for tomorrow. Our advice is for you to wait until it does what you need, then start using it.

[QUOTE]Also, if Omni agrees the first release is lacking some basic much needed features like MS Project import/export and Adobe PDF export or print, why not price the app accordingly until it's fully baked?[/QUOTE]

OmniPlan doesn't do everything it could do or will do, but we feel its essential core functionality is in place, letting people collaboratively edit and update project plans. (Not everyone needs compatibility with Microsoft Project, or to be able to send plans to people who don't have OmniPlan. You can share plans live using the device, either on its screen or by projecting to a large screen.)

OmniPlan for iPad is a bargain at its current $50 price. We’re not looking for impulse buys; we’re selling to serious customers who are willing to invest in their own productivity (and we charge them less than an hour of professional consulting time would cost). Note that on the Mac, OmniPlan sells quite well at $200—which is far less than similar software costs on other platforms.

Brian 2012-06-08 02:31 PM

Merged several duplicate threads into this one.

omniperson 2012-06-08 05:50 PM

[QUOTE]OmniPlan for iPad is a bargain at its current $50 price.[/QUOTE]

Seriously! $50 dollars is a bargain. I respect what they do and there is no doubt great value but calling this software a bargain at this price is a seriously flawed assessment of the current and likely future prices of mobile software. I hope for your sake Omni, you're have a backup plan if the market does not end up where you expect it will.


[QUOTE](and we charge them less than an hour of professional consulting time would cost). [/QUOTE]

I think this comment provides great insight into your value proposition. Whilst it may be an accurate comparison of values, I doubt that many of your customers rationalize their purchases the same way.

I am a very big fan of great UI and thoughtful functionality without bloat so I hope that Omni has many successful years ahead but I fear for your governance based upon these comments.

omniperson 2012-06-08 05:55 PM

[QUOTE]Not everyone needs compatibility with Microsoft Project, or to be able to send plans to people who don't have OmniPlan[/QUOTE]

One more comment... are you saying that more of your customers work in groups where everyone can afford a copy of this software than those working in groups where one person (likely the project manager) has a copy?

To say nothing about the pervasion of Windows/Linux in pretty much every industry I know off...

nick101 2012-06-09 12:22 AM

[QUOTE=Ken Case;111324]Not everyone needs compatibility with Microsoft Project, or to be able to send plans to people who don't have OmniPlan. You can share plans live using the device, either on its screen or by projecting to a large screen.)[/QUOTE]

That is, of course, absolutely true - but there *is* a substantial community of project managers out there who want both iPad project management tools *and* an ability to share their work with MS Project users. It *is* important to know whether you're intending to implement the ability to deal with MS Project files, even if you can't deliver it right now. It's not just about collaboration with non-iPad or Mac users - it's about being able to work in corporate environments that are Windows-based. For the most part, project management involves working with others, and that's what makes it such an issue.

It may be that your business model allows you to be successful without this kind of feature, in which case you're entitled to go for it. But, and I know I'm repeating myself, it *is* important to know if that's the case.

[QUOTE=Ken Case;111324]OmniPlan for iPad is a bargain at its current $50 price. We’re not looking for impulse buys; we’re selling to serious customers who are willing to invest in their own productivity (and we charge them less than an hour of professional consulting time would cost). Note that on the Mac, OmniPlan sells quite well at $200—which is far less than similar software costs on other platforms.[/QUOTE]

If you're aiming at professional users, then you have to acknowledge that they don't work in isolation, recognise the corporate landscape in which many of them work, and support it. Yes, you charge less than an hour of consulting tie, but if they have to invest significant extra time to find ways to get their data to other people, that's a significant cost.

But, as I said earlier you know your business, and I'm not about to tell you how to run it - I would simply ask that you tell us whether some ability to interact with MSP data is coming or not. Please.

vaucluse 2012-06-09 12:56 AM

[QUOTE=nick101;111348]
It may be that your business model allows you to be successful without this kind of feature, in which case you're entitled to go for it. But, and I know I'm repeating myself, it *is* important to know if that's the case.


...- I would simply ask that you tell us whether some ability to interact with MSP data is coming or not. Please.[/QUOTE]


+1

I like to underline this fact!

Bob 2012-06-09 03:26 AM

The only thing more important then a good timeline is the ability to communicate it to the masses...
 
Must just be a simple oversight. What's the point of a timeline if you can't communicate it to the people that are supposed to execute it? As a program manager working in a Windows based fortun 500 company my job is coordinating global teams of people to harmoniously achieve the desired goals. We have weekly meetings, statuses are updated, contingency plans are implemented adjusted, then readjusted. All this coordination happens through weekly project plan updates and task list going to individuals. The communication mechanism is the beloved PDF document hosted on a SharePoint site.

No PDF export, suggesting the desktop version be used, that's got to be an oversight. PDF is such a fundamental and generic mechanism for business communications these days. That would be like Apple forgetting to provide a charger with the new iPad then telling people just bring it back to the store and we'll charge it for you. I guess that would work... no wait, that totally doesn't work. Guess I'll stick with SG Project Pro for a while. Great app but missing any notion of resource leveling. It does allow you to export some awsume reports to PDF in Dropbox. That's exactly what I need. Then I move from dropbox to SharePoint. Perfect.

Another thought, does OmniPlan have the ability to Airprint to a printer? Then another third party app could be used to redirect to PDF.

MacBerry 2012-06-11 05:50 PM

[QUOTE=Ken Case;111324]OmniPlan doesn't do everything it could do or will do, but we feel its essential core functionality is in place, letting people collaboratively edit and update project plans. (Not everyone needs compatibility with Microsoft Project, or to be able to send plans to people who don't have OmniPlan. You can share plans live using the device, either on its screen or by projecting to a large screen.)[/QUOTE]

Ken, I can't believe you said this! I'm not sure if it's arrogance or ignorance, so until I know for sure ill assume the latter and try to correct you.

How many serious project managers (your declared target market), do you know who work in an environment where they either don't need to share their plans at all, or if they do, only need to share them with Omniplan users?

If you happen to work for a corporation which had adopted Omniplan exclusively (and by implication have also adopted Macs exclusively; unheard of in my industry), AND only ever have to share internally, then your statement will apply, but I'd suggest you'll struggle to find many people in that situation, and will bet that the moment you find a PM who needs to share outside his own organisation, which I'd think would be 99.9% of all PM's, there'll be not one who can manage properly without pdf, and almost as few who can get away with not sending/receiving MS Project files.

Sharing on screen is no solution; that's not sharing, it's presenting, which is a much smaller need. The fact that you mention it at all makes it look as if you are on the defensive regarding this issue.

Sharing via Omniplan for Mac is no solution; if I'm able to get to my Mac to share (i.e read, edit or create files useable by my clients), why would I need Omniplan on my iPad?

That's why I think import/export is core functionality that it was a mistake to release without. It wouldn't be so bad if I knew it was coming, but you refuse to say it is (I don't need to know when), and worse still, suggest in your FAQs that I may have to buy the app again if you do add it, as undoubtedly you'll concider it a major new feature.

Saying "if it doesn't do what you need, don't buy it" is logical enough in itself, and is exactly what I'm doing, but sidesteps your responsibility to deliver software that satisfies the core needs of your target market. It's the bit that smacks of arrogance, as it can be read as "you may be right, and the majority of our target market may agree with you (if we bothered to ask), but we're doing OK without you thanks.". Better to say "yes, we know it's essential, and it'll come, but we misinterpreted the needs of the market this time; sorry".

damorrison 2012-06-12 01:12 AM

[QUOTE=MacBerry;111458]That's why I think import/export is core functionality that it was a mistake to release without. It wouldn't be so bad if I knew it was coming, but you refuse to say it is (I don't need to know when), and worse still, suggest in your FAQs that I may have to buy the app again if you do add it, as undoubtedly you'll concider it a major new feature.[/QUOTE]

I agree with much of what you've written here, but just to clarify they have stated export is coming (re-read the new thread title), "Will Omniplan output to pdf or print [B][not in 1.0, but coming][/B]" which was updated by an OmniGroup forum admin when they merged these threads.

MacBerry 2012-06-12 04:23 AM

[QUOTE=damorrison;111465]I agree with much of what you've written here, but just to clarify they have stated export is coming (re-read the new thread title), "Will Omniplan output to pdf or print [B][not in 1.0, but coming][/B]" which was updated by an OmniGroup forum admin when they merged these threads.[/QUOTE]

OK, but there's no way for anyone reading the thread to know that's an Omni statement, and it tells us nothing about MS Project support or whether we'll be charged for this "major upgrade". If that's concidered adequate communication, then they have something seriously wrong in their culture.

I know they don't want to promise stuff they may not be able to deliver, which is perfectly reasonable, but PDF support at least can't be in doubt as possible or even possible quickly, and surely can't be in doubt as a required core feature either. Sometimes when you make mistakes, you have to promise to put them right, no matter how nervous that makes you.

damorrison 2012-06-12 11:12 PM

[QUOTE=skwirl;111317]Now that 1.0 has been released we don't plan on stopping! We'll definitely be working on adding import/export options as well as other features that have been requested.[/QUOTE]

Go back a page, and the above is a quote from an Omni employee saying import/export are being worked on.

I suggest you email them your requirements so they are considered. For me, PDF is useless, I need an image export of Gantt charts and RTF/Doc export of the resource plans and costs.

Brian 2012-06-13 03:29 PM

[QUOTE=MacBerry;111468]Sometimes when you make mistakes, you have to promise to put them right, no matter how nervous that makes you.[/QUOTE]

I understand why folks might think we made a mistake here - and folks are certainly entitled to that opinion.

However, when we do a new release - whether it's a new product or a point release to an existing one - our goal isn't to ship something that's useful to everyone we think might conceivably be interested. Instead, our goal is to ship something that's useful to a lot of people as early as we can manage to ship it.

Once you do that, you let customer feedback direct the later development efforts. That way, people get the app they [I]actually[/I] want rather than the app we [I]imagine[/I] they want.

The upside of that approach is that it appears to work well; we've been doing it the entire 10+ I've been here, and we'd be fools to complain about the success our products have had in that time. So if we're doing it wrong, we've been doing it wrong (and failing upwards, I guess) for a long time. ;-)

That said, I would love to do better. This approach is undeniably confusing for the folks whose expectations don't line up with ours, and it tends to produce forum threads like this one. I've spent a lot of time thinking about those factors, and short of giant pre-release blog posts along the lines of "Product X: here are all the things we aren't putting in it yet", I'm honestly not sure what to do about it.

Even if we did try something like that, I'm concerned it would do more harm (by dampening the spirits of folks who would otherwise be happy) than it would do to reduce any post-release confusion or disappointment.

(We avoid the "when do you think you will do <x>?" game as much as possible for similar reasons. It simply doesn't help that much.)

So, until we figure out something better, we'll do what we've always done. Ship products, keep making them better, and keep listening. Like we're doing now.

Bob 2012-06-13 04:45 PM

Omniplan is a great product
 
I agree Brian, Omniplan is a great product and you guys are doing a great job! So much so that I can't wait to use it, just really need PDF output which will happen so I am a happy camper. Simply can't develope everything first but I like the way it's developing! Really really love the resource planning capabilities! Frankly if the other capabilities wheren't so well thought out I wouldn't even care about PDF.

MacBerry 2012-06-15 05:01 AM

[QUOTE=Brian;111519]
However, when we do a new release - whether it's a new product or a point release to an existing one - our goal isn't to ship something that's useful to everyone we think might conceivably be interested. Instead, our goal is to ship something that's useful to a lot of people as early as we can manage to ship it.[/QUOTE]

Hi Brian. I agree with everything you say on a "policy" level, but the reply above illustrates my point perfectly I think.

The mistake I think you've made this time around is [B]not[/B] in leaving out feature X, Y or Z; there will always be features that some people want but that don't make it into version 1, and your policy is the only sensible way to deal with that. The mistake is in leaving out ANY way for people who need to share projects outside of their own organisation, or inside it if Omniplan isn't 100% adopted, and thinking that that leaves you with a product that is useful.

This is the point you haven't answered. The remark I've quoted above suggests that you think export/sharing is a nice to have that will only be useful to a (small?) subset of your users. Yet I'd suggest that thinking that is a massive mistake, unless your target market is people planning a house move rather than serious PM's; i.e. the people who will never buy Omniplan for Mac anyway. As I said before, I can't think of any way for a serious PM to use PM software that won't let him share his plans, because sharing is core to project planning, and the chances of those he needs to share with also using Omniplan are, sadly, almost nil.

So agreed, you can't ship something that will be useful to all users, but I don't believe you've met your own goal of shipping something that's useful to a lot of them.

If I've got that wrong, can you please explain the workflow you had in mind when you released an app that will ONLY share with Omniplan (and Omniplan 2 at that), into a market that unfortunately has not adopted Omniplan as it's de-facto file format?

HappyCatMachine 2012-06-15 06:22 AM

OmniOutliner, a year in and we still don't have a good way to get outlines into Word without buying the Mac version of OO.

OmniGraffle, even longer and we have no way to export as Visio without buying the PRO version of OG for Mac.

It's clearly not Omni's priority to communicate with a world outside of Mac and even their products if one doesn't own a Mac and their products. And believe it or not, I do, and I'm still miffed at this.

And yes, iThoughts to OO and back is pretty good. But it's an outliner...users want it to work with word processors.

Brian 2012-06-15 03:32 PM

[QUOTE=MacBerry;111585]If I've got that wrong, can you please explain the workflow you had in mind when you released an app that will ONLY share with Omniplan (and Omniplan 2 at that), into a market that unfortunately has not adopted Omniplan as it's de-facto file format?[/QUOTE]

Our approach here is very similar to Apple's approach when they first shipped the iPod without any Windows support.

Get something out to the folks who are waiting most anxiously for an iPad edition, make them happy, then build from there. We don't need to try and get every possible customer right out of the gate. :-)

mat_rhein 2012-06-16 12:45 AM

Value for money...
 
as always it is genuinely fascinating to guess at the predispositions and implications / emotions with which some people must have read Kens reply-

and as always the omni group is maybe not serving everyone, but is considering what is working best- which until now has worked out quite well and is building a trust system on the most valuable models of it all: integrity...

So let me just add a reason to invest in OmniPlan: trusting that what we currently have is actively reflected upon and modified to the best of options You can support the efforts by buying a version that might not fully match your requirements but most likely will in the future :-)

nick101 2012-06-16 10:21 AM

[QUOTE=mat_rhein;111619]as always it is genuinely fascinating to guess at the predispositions and implications / emotions with which some people must have read Kens reply-

and as always the omni group is maybe not serving everyone, but is considering what is working best- which until now has worked out quite well and is building a trust system on the most valuable models of it all: integrity...

So let me just add a reason to invest in OmniPlan: trusting that what we currently have is actively reflected upon and modified to the best of options You can support the efforts by buying a version that might not fully match your requirements but most likely will in the future :-)[/QUOTE]

In essence, this says: "Buy it now, even though it doesn't do the job for you, and trust in Omnigroup's integrity to deliver what's needed for your job in the future"

I see why you say that, but:

1. Money and time are tight - those of us using professional project management tools to do professional project management haven't necessarily got the time or money to buy something that doesn't work in the hope that it may someday. My clients, bless them, want to see my plans now, and want to be able to edit them, or summarise them or whatever - that's one of the things they pay me for. They aren't interested in my telling them that Omnigroup will deliver later, maybe. Most of my project take between 6 months and 2 years. On past experience, most of my current ones will be finished before I get proper export/import from iPad Omniplan. And that's not to diss Omnigroup - as I said in an earlier post, they have priorities and constraints, like everyone else - if they haven't delivered what I need, it's not because they're lazy or dishonest or incompetent - it's because they just can't do it all at once.

2. But that doesn't mean I should apologise for them. This is a commercial relationship - I pay money to get something in return. Don't ask me to pay the money without the return on the basis that these are good guts and I should support the. It's not a charity, and I'm not a philanthropist.

3. I said in an earlier post that I can't tell Omnigroup how to run its business. But if they offer me a product that doesn't do the job, I'm sure as whatever going to say so. They then decide whether and when to address the problem. They might choose not too (unlikely, but possible) and they have the right to do that. But don't tell me that I should still pay up and shut up because they're good guts with integrity - that, to y=use your term, would be an emotional, not commercial view.

Or, in short, I think Omniplan made a mistake on this one, and I'm going to keep saying so until they fix it, or tell us that they won't fix it. In either case, I'll then shut up about it, either because I'm happy, or because I'll have stopped using the product.

Tom Bunch 2012-06-25 02:58 PM

[QUOTE=nick101;111625]In essence, this says: "Buy it now, even though it doesn't do the job for you, and trust in Omnigroup's integrity to deliver what's needed for your job in the future"[/QUOTE]

Honestly, I don't think any of us want to sell you something that doesn't make you more productive in the near term. We try to honestly represent the software we sell, and have a generous return policy in case we somehow fail. While we'd love to have you as a customer today, you are quite welcome to wait and see if version 1.1 fulfills your needs. In the meantime we obviously want to consider feedback from customers and non customers alike. If you buy now, we're going to work to improve the product and retain you as a satisfied customer. If you don't, maybe we can get you next time.

It may sound trite, but for me the thing that most confirms our success is hearing that our software has contributed to yours.

-Tom

nick101 2012-06-28 12:18 AM

[QUOTE=Tom Bunch;111953]Honestly, I don't think any of us want to sell you something that doesn't make you more productive in the near term. [/QUOTE]

Of course you don't - and to the extent that OP/iPad works, it can make people (including me) more productive - even the opportunity to review a plan on the go is worth something. But the inability to share any changes I make is obviously a major limitation.

[QUOTE=Tom Bunch;111953]We try to honestly represent the software we sell, and have a generous return policy in case we somehow fail.[/QUOTE]

Indeed, your return policy is an exmaple to much of the rest of the software industry - credit where it's due. And I'm not accusing you of misrepresentation, nor expecting you to fly a banner over the top saying "Warning! Does not export!" What I'm saying is that I think you've made a mistake - an honest one, but a mistake nonetheless.

Projects that need project management software are, by definition, cooperative efforts. and that's why the sharing issue is major. Omnifocus is essentially personal; OminGraffle and OmniOutliner have enough sharing options to make them useful (albeit not enough to satisfy everyone). Ans although OP/iPad can be used by a single person for their personal stuff, it's clearly designed to deal with multi-person work. That's my reasoning for calling it a mistake.

[QUOTE=Tom Bunch;111953]While we'd love to have you as a customer today, you are quite welcome to wait and see if version 1.1 fulfills your needs. In the meantime we obviously want to consider feedback from customers and non customers alike. If you buy now, we're going to work to improve the product and retain you as a satisfied customer. If you don't, maybe we can get you next time.

It may sound trite, but for me the thing that most confirms our success is hearing that our software has contributed to yours.[/QUOTE]

Point taken, and I think I've said what I needed to say. All I want to do is to be clear that this is a major need. You've got me for the time being, because OP/iPad is better than nothing and (in some respects) better than SG Project Pro.

whpalmer4 2012-06-28 08:14 AM

Nick, note that there's a population that should find OmniPlan 1.0 ready to roll out of the box — that crowd at WWDC. Small groups, building iPad apps, everyone on the team has an iPad, probably not report generating fiends, in other words, Omni built an app they would find useful in house. It seems like a pretty obvious stepping stone on the way to a more widely useful app, allowing them to grab some mind and market share, get some useful feedback and direction, etc. If you aren't in that target population, and can't imagine that an app might rationally be (initially) targeted at a group that doesn't include you, then sure, it might look like a mistake.

nick101 2012-06-28 11:41 AM

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;112091]Nick, note that there's a population that should find OmniPlan 1.0 ready to roll out of the box — that crowd at WWDC. Small groups, building iPad apps, everyone on the team has an iPad, probably not report generating fiends, in other words, Omni built an app they would find useful in house. It seems like a pretty obvious stepping stone on the way to a more widely useful app, allowing them to grab some mind and market share, get some useful feedback and direction, etc. If you aren't in that target population, and can't imagine that an app might rationally be (initially) targeted at a group that doesn't include you, then sure, it might look like a mistake.[/QUOTE]

Those are fair points, and I'm not suggesting that there's no market for OP in its current form. I'd have been content had Omni said that the app is targeted at the group you described.

But that's not what professional project management means to me, and I've seen what Omni have invested in OP/Mac to make it serve something much more like my view of PM than what you've described - especially the work to coexist with Microsoft Project, the standard many of us have to work with.

whpalmer4 2012-06-28 03:01 PM

Remember, all Omni products do quite a bit of growing between 1.0 and whatever they are now. OP for iPad 1.0 is just a starting point. I think that will become clear soon enough. By itself, without the Mac app and without every participant having an iPad and a copy of the app, there are definitely constraints on what you can do. But coming at it from the opposite direction, as someone who has always had the Mac version, having the ability to view and edit plans on my iPad has been a big boon, because the iPad is what I carry with me, not the 27" iMac. It's also handy for doing "back of the envelope" plans for assessing the feasibility of an idea.

I'm confident that Omni's vision for the future of the iPad app includes making it usable in many of the roles currently only shouldered by the Mac app. Each revision should expand the audience for which it is a useful app. As with the other apps, there will likely always be some features not found in the iPad edition (AppleScript being one obvious and important example).

MacBerry 2012-06-29 07:02 AM

[QUOTE=whpalmer4;112104]Remember, all Omni products do quite a bit of growing between 1.0 and whatever they are now. OP for iPad 1.0 is just a starting point. I think that will become clear soon enough. By itself, without the Mac app and without every participant having an iPad and a copy of the app, there are definitely constraints on what you can do. But coming at it from the opposite direction, as someone who has always had the Mac version, having the ability to view and edit plans on my iPad has been a big boon, because the iPad is what I carry with me, not the 27" iMac. It's also handy for doing "back of the envelope" plans for assessing the feasibility of an idea.

I'm confident that Omni's vision for the future of the iPad app includes making it usable in many of the roles currently only shouldered by the Mac app. Each revision should expand the audience for which it is a useful app. As with the other apps, there will likely always be some features not found in the iPad edition (AppleScript being one obvious and important example).[/QUOTE]

The problem though is that Omni Group insist that they'll charge for major upgrades (unlike many many iPad apps), yet refuse to tell us whether or not they see pdf and MSP support as upgrades, or just steps toward getting the app up to scratch.

OP iPad may well be very useful to me in the ways you describe, but in fact their policy makes it no use at all, because I can't buy it for fear of having to pay over again when it has these fundamental features added.

They've told us these features are coming. Why can't they tell us whether or not we'll have to pay for them? I get the "don't buy it until it's what you want" idea, but the reality is not as clear cut as that; it's [I]some[/I] use now, but not ready for full use, so I'd like to buy it yet am unable to because they refuse to tell me what I'll get for my money.

That's the major frustration. With most apps/developers you know that these kinds of issues (issues where a large number of users see a glaring omission), will be cleared before they even begin to think about charging for an upgrade, so you feel safe to give them your money then work with them to get the app you need. Unfortunately that's not the Omni way :(.

whpalmer4 2012-06-29 09:08 AM

Omni has been shipping iOS apps for several years. They have yet to ship a paid upgrade for any of them. I think you have a better chance of seeing a press release about their new Android app than a post telling you that print and export support will be an additional charge for OmniPlan for iPad 1.0 owners.

Brian 2012-06-29 02:08 PM

[QUOTE=MacBerry;112119]The problem though is that Omni Group insist that they'll charge for major upgrades[/QUOTE]

Either we posted something confusing someplace (absolutely possible, and I'd love to fix it if you can point me at it) or there's been a misunderstanding.

I have had many, many conversations with folks about how we might handle this some day; I'd summarize every one of those conversations (including the ones with the CEO) as "we don't know; we'll figure it out later".

The iTunes app store doesn't currently offer any real support for paid upgrades. Your best option (note that "best" does not equate to "good") is to pull the old version of the app and put a completely new app out that everyone must purchase at full price. The effect this would have on existing customer satisfaction is pretty easy to anticipate, and it's not good.

Might we do a paid upgrade at some point in the future? It's within the realm of possibility, sure. But there's a big difference between "maybe, if Apple makes it possible someday" and "insist".

nick101 2012-07-01 03:34 AM

[QUOTE=MacBerry;112119]The problem though is that Omni Group insist that they'll charge for major upgrades (unlike many many iPad apps), yet refuse to tell us whether or not they see pdf and MSP support as upgrades, or just steps toward getting the app up to scratch.
[/QUOTE]

For all my concerns about OP/iPad, this isn't one of them. Omni don't charge for this kind of upgrade even on the Mac, where they don't have Mac app store restrictions. I think this complaint is unfair.

MacBerry 2012-07-02 04:34 PM

[QUOTE=nick101;112200]For all my concerns about OP/iPad, this isn't one of them. Omni don't charge for this kind of upgrade even on the Mac, where they don't have Mac app store restrictions. I think this complaint is unfair.[/QUOTE]

Really?

[QUOTE=Omniplan FAQs for iPad]
Will future updates cost anything?

The App Store policy and the longstanding Omni Group policy agree: minor updates should be free. Of course, if there is a major overhaul of the application with lots of shiny new features, we may release it as a new product, and that would cost money. But bug fixes, minor features, and miscellaneous polishing come at no cost.[/QUOTE]

The things we're discussing here are NOT "bug fixes", "minor features", or "miscellaneous polishing" (if they were, there would not be so many people up in arms about their omission), so the implication of that answer is that they may be charged for.

If, as you suggest, its not the Omni Groups normal behaviour, why do they say that?

With most apps it's not a big deal; if I have to pay £2.99 twice, so be it, but while I think Omniplan is probably worth the premium price they ask for it, it is NOT worth double, so it's perfectly "fair" to ask for clarrification; when these features come, will they be concidered "shiny new features" that we'll have to pay for?

MacBerry 2012-07-02 04:43 PM

[QUOTE=Brian;112141]Either we posted something confusing someplace (absolutely possible, and I'd love to fix it if you can point me at it) or there's been a misunderstanding.[/QUOTE]

Your own FAQs, combined with the (not unreasonable) fact that users have no way of knowing how many other new features will come alongside/ahead of pdf and MSP support; enough to constitute "lots of shiny new features"?

The fact that you seam to view these import/export features as nice to have, non-essential functions, makes me worry that you'll concider them chargeable.

HappyCatMachine 2012-07-02 07:11 PM

[QUOTE=MacBerry;112232]Your own FAQs, combined with the (not unreasonable) fact that users have no way of knowing how many other new features will come alongside/ahead of pdf and MSP support; enough to constitute "lots of shiny new features"?

The fact that you seam to view these import/export features as nice to have, non-essential functions, makes me worry that you'll concider them chargeable.[/QUOTE]

I have read what you are referring to but it is my belief that this was written before Apple introduced in-app purchases. While Omni has not to date charged for any updates to iOS apps I imagine that if it came down to it that they would implement it as an in-app purchase rather than a replacement app. The stigma of pulling an app and replacing it with a new one is surely something a company conscientious as Omni would want to avoid.

Your speculation is moot, in my humble opinion, and distracts from more realistic and pressing concerns. Given Omni's track record, we will not be charged for PDF export. Of course, this is no guarantee, but it's certainly more conceivable than the speculation that Omni would replace the app simply for PDF support.

MacBerry 2012-07-02 11:30 PM

Firstly, you assume I or any other user knows Omni's history; I don't, so I can only judge them by what they say.

Secondly, I'm not speculating, you are, both about what their plans are and about when/why they wrote their FAQ's (given that OP iPad has only just been released, I suspect you're wrong about the latter point anyway). You're assuming, with no evidence, that PDF/MSP support would come on its own. How do I (or you), know that it won't wait until a version 2 along with a load of other stuff that they don't regard as core functionality?

I agree that it wouldn't look good for Omni to pull the app and replace it completely, but they wouldn't be the first, and it's what they've declared they'll do, so I'd like them to answer my question; assuming that it proves possible at all, is PDF/MSP support going to be part of V1.x, or is it more likely that it'll come in a later version?

In other words, do they recognise that to a significant proportion of their users, these are core functions, or not?

Ken Case 2012-07-03 12:15 AM

OmniPlan for iPad v1.1 adds PDF export, as well as task and resource HTML reports. (We submitted it to the App Store last week, where it's currently waiting for Apple's review.)

If there are other reports you'd like to see, please let us know!

l33bert 2012-07-03 03:50 AM

[QUOTE=Ken Case;112240]OmniPlan for iPad v1.1 adds PDF export, as well as task and resource HTML reports. (We submitted it to the App Store last week, where it's currently waiting for Apple's review.)

If there are other reports you'd like to see, please let us know![/QUOTE]

Lol that'll quieten down this thread somewhat!

Good call OmniGuys! Looking forward to it.

damorrison 2012-07-03 11:15 PM

That sounds like good news indeed
 
[QUOTE=Ken Case;112240]OmniPlan for iPad v1.1 adds PDF export, as well as task and resource HTML reports. (We submitted it to the App Store last week, where it's currently waiting for Apple's review.)

If there are other reports you'd like to see, please let us know![/QUOTE]

Excellent news Ken. If I can get get what I need from the HTML reports then I'll be a happy camper.

MacBerry 2012-07-04 12:59 AM

[QUOTE=Ken Case;112240]OmniPlan for iPad v1.1 adds PDF export, as well as task and resource HTML reports. (We submitted it to the App Store last week, where it's currently waiting for Apple's review.)

If there are other reports you'd like to see, please let us know![/QUOTE]

That's brilliant Ken, thanks. Begs the question why you couldn't just tell people it was that imminent, but it's good news anyway.

So that just leaves being able to see 99.9% of the plans that my customers send me by email, which are in MSP format of course. [I]If[/I] it proves to be technically possible, is that planned for V1.X, or is it more likely to be a paid V2 feature?

I don't need to know when it's coming, just whether or not I'm likely to have to pay again.

Ken Case 2012-07-04 07:33 AM

[QUOTE=MacBerry;112264]That's brilliant Ken, thanks. Begs the question why you couldn't just tell people it was that imminent, but it's good news anyway.[/QUOTE]

I did try to indicate it was coming soon (putting that in the title of this thread, even!), but I also try to avoid getting too concrete about things until we've actually finished them: it's hard to know what roadblocks we might encounter, and in any case actions speak louder than words.

[QUOTE]So that just leaves being able to see 99.9% of the plans that my customers send me by email, which are in MSP format of course. [I]If[/I] it proves to be technically possible, is that planned for V1.X, or is it more likely to be a paid V2 feature?

I don't need to know when it's coming, just whether or not I'm likely to have to pay again.[/QUOTE]

We feel that it is important to protect customers' investments in our software, which is why our paid upgrades are spaced years apart and give customers credit for their existing investment (with an upgrade discount which gives 50% or more of the app's previous purchase price).

We've had an independent team working on adding Microsoft Project import support to the iPad app for many months now, and we hope that it will be ready to ship soon. Customers who want that import functionality won't have to pay for a completely new v2 version of OmniPlan; we'll be adding it as an in-app purchase option so that existing investments in OmniPlan will be preserved. (We're planning a try-before-you-buy option, so you'll be able to test whether it works with your projects before you pay to import them.)

MacBerry 2012-07-04 11:17 AM

OK that helps, thanks Ken.

nick101 2012-07-06 02:17 AM

[QUOTE=Ken Case;112272]We've had an independent team working on adding Microsoft Project import support to the iPad app for many months now, and we hope that it will be ready to ship soon. Customers who want that import functionality won't have to pay for a completely new v2 version of OmniPlan; we'll be adding it as an in-app purchase option so that existing investments in OmniPlan will be preserved. (We're planning a try-before-you-buy option, so you'll be able to test whether it works with your projects before you pay to import them.)[/QUOTE]

Now *that* is excellent news, for which many thanks (and an acknowledgement that you can't be specific about delivery dates with software).

It would be nice to know whether you have in mind some kind of "export to Microsoft Project" function.

Thanks again

skwirl 2012-07-12 02:17 PM

PDF Exports, HTML Report Exports, and AirPrinting support are now available on the App Store in OmniPlan for iPad v1.1. Happy updating! :-)

[URL="http://www.omnigroup.com/download/appstore/omniplan-ipad/"]http://www.omnigroup.com/download/appstore/omniplan-ipad/[/URL]

badmanj 2012-07-22 02:47 PM

Well I just read about this - and purchased Omniplan for iPad because of this functionality being added. Must say you did a great job of it... Gantt to HTML would be cool - is that likely at some point?

And the import from MS Project sounds great too... Please consider adding the ability to export to Project also - since a lot of my colleagues use that exclusively and it would be great to be able to share my plans with them.

Happy to pay IAP for this kind of functionality to be honest - its great you guys support your products so well.

Thanks to all of you - appreciated.

Cheers

Jamie

butnooneshome 2012-08-27 02:44 AM

So all we now is sync between Omniplan for iPad and Omnifocus for iPad ...

Omni plan for planning and scheduling, Omnifocus for checking todos and capturing actions.

mdcroft 2013-04-25 01:51 AM

Omniplan not exporting or printing from iPad
 
[QUOTE=Ken Case;112240]OmniPlan for iPad v1.1 adds PDF export, as well as task and resource HTML reports. (We submitted it to the App Store last week, where it's currently waiting for Apple's review.)

If there are other reports you'd like to see, please let us know![/QUOTE]

Purchased software - my dearest app yet! - wrote up project and then searched for output tab. Mmmmmmmm does not exist, or is so well hidden I can't find it. Not happy Ken.

Ken Case 2013-04-25 05:34 AM

[QUOTE=mdcroft;123083]Purchased software - my dearest app yet! - wrote up project and then searched for output tab. Mmmmmmmm does not exist, or is so well hidden I can't find it. Not happy Ken.[/QUOTE]

In the project list, tap on the Edit button (top right corner), then select a document by tapping on it, and tap the "Send To" button (top left corner). Choose how you'd like to send the document (by email, to another app, or to a printer), then choose exactly what you'd like to send:
[LIST][*]OmniPlan — a copy of the original document[*]Canvas Gantt — a one-page PDF of the Gantt chart[*]Paginated Gantt — a multi-page PDF of the Gantt chart[*]Task Report — an HTML report with details about every task[*]Resource Report — an HTML report of each resource and their task assignments[/LIST]
I hope this helps, and I'm sorry the export options weren't easier to find!


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