[Allen Wicks]

Originally Posted by Ken Case

I'm saying outright that we've never indicated that any future version of OmniOutliner will add cloning support, and that we're still not indicating that it will come in any future release. ...it would be a good idea to look for another outlining tool that already supports cloning.

Thank you, that is pretty clear, especially after having been led on regarding cloning "coming soon" since v1. With all due respect I too will be clear: I will not upgrade again unless cloning or something fully equivalent is added.

I believe there are a lot of other capabilities that are much more important to the vast majority of our customer base.

With all due respect that just points out a serious ongoing flaw of primarily looking to existing users to evaluate the need for new features. There are many potential new users IF the feature was available. And, cloning is a hugely powerful tool that staff and users would LOVE once they learned how powerful it is by really using it.

Cloning in a simple outliner is a relatively simple problem. Cloning in OmniOutliner is a much harder problem.

I have yet to find an outliner which supports cloning and also supports multiple columns with calculated column summaries.

Agreed, there are features in OO like some calculations or logic that would be difficult or impossible to integrate with cloning. The solution seems simple: rather than denying the power of cloning to all potential users, instead document certain features as incompatible with each other just like spreadsheets do with an illogical formula.

Different users can then use the same app in different ways, making for a larger potential customer base. E.g. I seldom use OO because of lack of cloning but have never felt the need to use calculated column summaries. Calculations or columns can simply be invalidated and red flagged when cloning is implemented; or conversely an attempt to clone from or into an invalid area can be invalidated and red flagged.

Context-dependent row styles are already one of the most confusing areas of functionality to understand in OmniOutliner, and they're an area we'd like to make simpler. But what happens when you add cloning to the mix? If you make a single word red in a clone, should that word be red in all of the clones?

That is pretty easy. If only the word is red, then the red stays with the word. If the red word became red because it is context-dependent like a style, then the color becomes whatever the style of the new location determines. Look to the way MORE did it 20+ years ago.

...red when negative and green when positive?

Calculations can simply be invalidated and red flagged as previously discussed.

Most requests for cloning tend to have simple examples in which none of these questions matter (e.g., one-column outlines with no formatting), but if cloning is ever going to work in OmniOutliner we feel it's important to come up with satisfactory answers to all these questions and more.

I really, really disagree - - and I have many thousands of cloned-outline pages and decades of real-world experience to support my opinion. (a) Users who want cloning will happily forgo multiple columns and calculations for outline parts cloned as a trade-off and (b) formatting was answered above; a clone simply takes the position-dependent format of the new position.

...we have some ideas about how to solve some of these problems, but we don't know yet whether those solutions will feel right to those of you who are actually requesting the feature. ...And while clones are one way to solve some problems, there are other ways to solve some of the same problems while also introducing totally new capabilities which clones don't support

Some early outliners solved a set of outlining problems by providing a cloning feature, which has made it a familiar solution for those of you who have experience with those outliners. But is cloning really the only solution to that set of problems? (Or even the best solution?)

With all due respect, yes cloning is the best solution to suit the need for a cloning feature. It should have been implemented with v1. Just invalidate cross usage of cloning with calculations and columns, and let clones take the styles of their respective locations. Save the "other ways to solve some of the same problems while also introducing totally new capabilities" for whoopdewhoop new features down the road and implement clear succinct cloning ASAP.

Please and thank you.

-Allen