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Quote:
Originally Posted by IncisiveOne View Post
You can't. At least in 4.x. Lodge a feature Request. I would like it too.

Yup. They have a different requirements for killing children overseas, they do not even need a court or judge or jury.
That is REALLY a problem while designing. I have to fit a presentation in an A4 size and the browser/search window is way too big for the size. Here is the sample

http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?pi...QfcxPoJFRNQYN0

I cannot get it Omnigraffle miss that very elemental design feature about shrinking objects and texts at the same size. Since i am at the beginning of my work i might as well start all over in InDesign since i am more familiar with it. I thought that was a good change to try Omnigraffle but without this feature it will make my design work very difficult.

By the way, How can I know that i am really working on an A4 size paper? i think i selected at the beginning of the work but now i am not so sure.


ps: thanks whpalmer4 for your info!

Last edited by lang; 2010-05-14 at 09:09 AM..
 
Quote:
That is REALLY a problem while designing.
Er, no.

It is really a problem FOR YOU. Millions have learned the tool, and produced what they want, in the design department, without having your "problem".

With that attitude, you're right, you're better off with a tool that you've already learned, so that you can produce what you want, in the design department, without having your "problem".

But whenever you are tired of the other tools and wish to learn OG, it would be helpful if you learned the tool first and had expctations of it second.
Quote:
By the way, How can I know that i am really working on an A4 size paper? i think i selected at the beginning of the work but now i am not so sure
Unless you are using a program that is not stanard-compliant, in any Apple program: FileMenu/PageSetup. But note, that's the paper size; not the canvas size.

For Canvas Size, use the Canvas:Size Inspector.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by IncisiveOne View Post
Er, no.

It is really a problem FOR YOU. Millions have learned the tool, and produced what they want, in the design department, without having your "problem".

With that attitude, you're right, you're better off with a tool that you've already learned, so that you can produce what you want, in the design department, without having your "problem".

But whenever you are tired of the other tools and wish to learn OG, it would be helpful if you learned the tool first and had expctations of it second.
Unless you are using a program that is not stanard-compliant, in any Apple program: FileMenu/PageSetup. But note, that's the paper size; not the canvas size.

For Canvas Size, use the Canvas:Size Inspector.

Hey man, chill out...there is no point on replying on those terms. Maybe you didn't understand my question or i expressed wrong myself as English is not my language.

Don't you find a "problem" shrink a text and an object to the desired size?

http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?pi...FfCjaT2FEX8RO1

Please let me know how can you do it. As i am new to this tool.


Thanks for any info,
Cheers,

S

Last edited by lang; 2010-05-16 at 11:27 AM..
 
Quote:
That is REALLY a problem while designing.
Pardon me, but I was responding to what you had written. You will have to tolerate my terse communication style, I am not a salesman, I am an engineer, just helping out.
Quote:
Don't you find a "problem" shrink a text and an object to the desired size?
(Again, I do not know how to put this, but let me assure you, I am very chilled, looking forward to a promising day ahead.) I understood your problem exactly from the first example, my previous comments stand.

I do not have that PROBLEM at all. I do not go to the butcher for bread, and get upset because he does not have any. Therefore I do not have your PROBLEM when drawing, there is no obstacle. I draw hundreds of architectural diagrams and wire frames. Three totally separate answers.

1 Feature Request
As I have already stated, if you want that feature, lodge a Feature Request. HelpMenu/SendFeedback. I have no use for that feature, so I will not be lodging such a request, or voting for it.

2 Learn the Tool
With one single additional click (assuming you have the Font Inspector open: Command-t), you get what you want, it is no big deal. Hardly worth a FR for me but maybe worth it for you.

Learn the Toolbar, and how each Tool operates. Learn the distinction between:
a Tool chosen to operate once (one click)
a Tool chosen to operate multiple times (two clicks) until it is cancelled
the little down-arrow on the Tool icon (eg. ClearContents)
If you do not like the Font Inspector, you can use the Style Brush (still only one additional click) to get what you want.

Learn the Style:Summary Inspector. It has a "well" for each possible Style property; you can just select it and then select the object to change it. That's the intuitive approach, it is easier than the non-standard interaction you are used to in other programs.

If you do not like the Manuals (there is a very good overview at the beginning), at least go through the Tutorials. Otherwise you sit there going "I can't" and "it won't" and "problem", while someone who took half an hour to understand the Tool has drawn three Wire Frames perfectly.

3 Learn the Task
You are breaking standards all over the place. Eg. Why in heavens name (taking your wireframe example) are you resizing buttons, text boxes and free text (headings) ? It does not reflect what is intended in the software or web page AT ALL, you do not really want web pages with buttons and text boxes of different sizes on the same page, do you? If I was your developer, I would throw the wireframe back at you and ask you to resize everything to standard, so that the web page loads in less than half an hour. Few, standardised headings, boxes, fonts, font sizes, button shapes and sizes; not some uncontrolled number. Second, you need all the pages on the site to have the same look and feel; not each page to be a different set of heading, text and button sizes.

You need to go about the wireframe thoughtfully, keeping in mind all the requirements for the set of drawings:
one canvas per web page
first set your canvas size to the webpage size (not to A4, that has nothing to do with it, the screen is not A4 or US Letter)
use a good stencil, and draw the entire web page.
Never change the size of objects (such as buttons and text boxes), unless you want to create pages from Hell.
use any magnification that is relevant to the drawing while drawing (but I prefer to use the same magnification across all the frames)
standardise your user interaction across all the webpages on the site: choose a scale, etc. Still no change to the object size from the stencil. Otherwise you have a mess. Each web page does not exist in isolation from the others.
now you have a set of web pages that relate to each other, and are drawn consistently.
Last, for printing the wire frames. This step will also be reduced if you have standardised. Go to the Canvas:Size Inspector and choose a PrintScale that is suitable for each canvas, separately, just for convenience, so that the web page fits nicely on an A4 page or pages. There is a Fit button, so you do not have to figure the scale out.
you might want two renditions (I often do): the entire web page on a single A4 Portrait for overview; and the web page on two A4 Landscape for detail, at the same PrintScale for all web pages.
Note, you did not change any objects in the drawing. As the project progresses, you can keep the set of drawings up to date without wasting time forever changing object and text sizes.
Note the feature of scaling the text label with the shape was not used. It should remain the same size (from the stencil; otherwise fix the stencil).

Last edited by DerekAsirvadem; 2010-05-16 at 05:13 PM..
 
IncisiveOne, thanks for the info and for the time you spend in replying. Nevertheless we certainly disagree in a couple of things regarding design. I am an architect designer not an engineer. We probably look at things for a different perspective. Let's see.

I google this problem of mine and searched in this same forum and a good deal users has asked for this very same feature. So i am not alone in that. Fortunately it seems there is a way to do it that using link back but i haven't tried yet.

Why not use an A4 size papper? Why not? When i use a drawing schematic app i don't feel like i am making an actual web design but rather a presentation for a client. He is used to see thing in paper as many older corporate clients, so why not? I am not in production stage time now.

I do apologize if i did run fast and didn't took a good deal of time learning the application as it should but my presentation is due on Wednesday so it didn't have much time to spend. I friend of mine suggested me Omnigraffle and indeed seems to be a good app but i thought (my mistake) it was closer to Illustrator (which i really know how to use) but have the advantage of a really nice Stencils sets so i decided to give it a try if speed it up my work. Unfortunately it didn't, and Lynda.com Omnigraffle tutorial it is nice but a bit on the Beginners basic side.

Thanks for your support, i will came back to the app in the future and try to learn its tricks for future clients.

Cheers,
S
 
Quote:
we certainly disagree in a couple of things regarding design
Absolutely. We each have our own approach, totally different project, etc.

Quote:
I google this problem of mine and searched in this same forum and a good deal users has asked for this very same feature. So i am not alone in that.
That does not mean the feature is needed in that paricular way; that only means a lot of PC types are crossing over to OG, and they want PC command sequences, and they can't be bothered to learn the intuitive way of doing things (which is, by the way, the way of the future). Pieces of Crap are a poor man's Apple, not the other way around. Illustrator, PhotoSHop and CS may have a huge market share, but they are clunky as hell, and I am not one bit interested in copying clunky command sequences just because a large number of people are used to it.

Quote:
Why not use an A4 size paper? ... I am not in production stage time now.
I did not say "don't use A4 paper". I said, don't use a fixed paper size as your canvas size; do not let it limit your canvas and art. By all means, maintain papersize in your vision as the end product that you print on.

Quote:
... I am not in production stage time now.
Sure. I suppose, for my level of experience, I think the whole vision through, and I have prodcution as an ultimate goal. I do not want one set of diagrams for the early stages; and a new set when I go to development or production; I have one set all the way through.

Quote:
Lynda.com Omnigraffle tutorial it is nice but a bit on the Beginners basic side.
You actually used it ?

The manuals have an excellent walthrough. Download the (separate) walkthrough and sample docs.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by IncisiveOne View Post
there is no such sequence as Command+; it is CommandShift= (and we all realise the + is Shift=).
I'm late to this conversation, but whpalmer4 is actually correct. Some keyboards do behave the way you describe, but not all. There is also a "Numpad plus" keycode that other keyboards will send from the number pad...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian View Post
I'm late to this conversation, but whpalmer4 is actually correct. Some keyboards do behave the way you describe, but not all.
You've quoted me but you're referring to whpalmer4, so I have no idea which f their statements is correct.

As far as my statement that you quote goes, exactly which bit is incorrect ? I read it carefully again, I can't see it. Maybe I am missing something here, help me out.

Of course, OG is more apple-standard and precise than some (including Apple apps!), and equivalent of the intent of Command Plus [which cannot be typed on any qwerty keyboard) is "Command Control =". Just a bit more precise, in line with my post; if Omni were slack they would name the sequence "Command Control +", and (if you accept that depth) contradicting Palmer's post.

I believe the issue of Numpad, etc. obfuscates the issue. That gets into the actual control codes sent by the keyboard to the software, upon the user entering a key sequence. That is quite relevant to the Omni engineer, but quite invisible to the user (they are unaware of the control codes). Likewise, the manuals and Help docs do not publish such codes; they publish the key sequence that the user needs to type in.

Last edited by DerekAsirvadem; 2010-05-19 at 01:01 PM..
 
To clarify, this information is correct:
Quote:
Originally Posted by whpalmer4 View Post
at an Apple keyboard with a numeric keypad you can press cmd-+ without any use of the shift key.
and I'm sorry to say that this information in your response is not:
Quote:
Originally Posted by IncisiveOne View Post
That's incorrect, I have already explained above. There's no such thing as Command+; in order to get Command+, one must type Command-Shift-plus.
That's a bit more correct, but not quite correct; you are arguing without understanding the specific issue. The Menu states Command-+; but the fact is they mean Command-=.
 
Brian

We are on different wavelengths. Before we worry about what you perceive to be "correct" or "not", in order to avoid a lengthy exchange ...

Do me a favour, please. Type "+" on [a standard] keyboard (so that it actually shows up, on say a TextEdit window). Please post back exactly which key or keys you held down in order to get that image.

And just to be clear, I am expecting that you have maintained the context of the thread, not extracted single statements in isolation, devoid of context. All standard keyboards (eg. any laptop or iMac) have no numeric keypad, only the extended keyboards do. When engineering teams write manuals they cater for the generic, they do not write manuals for people with numeric keypads only (and if they did, that limitation would be identified in the from of the manual). When we talk about Command-6 we mean the seventh key in the second row of the keyboard that all Apples have, not the key in the numeric keypad that only some people have, which (you're right) produced a different control code).

I am not interested in conflict. My take on it is that Palmer was balancing his argument on the basis of exceptions, and after I pointed that out, he appears to have conceded (not posted further). You've come in late, and I am not sure which bits you have caught and which bits you have lost. But you have posted a declaration, which has to be dealt with.

Thanks

Last edited by DerekAsirvadem; 2010-05-20 at 06:56 AM.. Reason: [edit in square brackets]
 
 


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