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I bought OW and loved it, but finally I had to go back to my Safari kludges (SafariStand and Saft). Three reasons:
  1. Tabs can’t open next to current tab.
  2. No immediate find-as-you-type.
  3. No “Undo Last Closed Tab” command.
Sure, everyone has pet peeves, and there have to be priorities. But these are common and long-standing requests, and — to my layman’s eyes — none of them seems like it would be a huge task.

I have been very impressed with the responsiveness of the support staff in terms communication — and this makes the lack of practical responsiveness seem especially odd. It’s also made me feel that providing feedback is a waste of time, which is another reason I stopped using OW.

I mean, as a poster just pointed out, that first feature-request has been in the air for three years! I know Omni hasn’t been able to spare much time for OW, but have circumstances actually precluded addressing something so simple in that period?

If the answer’s “yes,” I’d be happy to know it. As it is, I’m having trouble believing it worthwhile to contribute to discussions about more challenging feature-proposals.

Someday, my OW 6 prince will come. I think. It would help if you guys would make the foreshadowing a little more obvious.

Last edited by PhilMac; 2009-09-03 at 04:34 PM..
 
It appears the browser you went back to doesn't do 2 of the 3 things you mentioned, either, unless you insert some 3rd party software.

Contributing to forum discussions is mostly pointless, if you're trying to get Omni to implement or fix something. Sending email to omniweb@omnigroup.com or using the Help->Send Feedback command is not. Getting your ideas into the database where someone might act on them the next time there's a flurry of work is the best way to improve the chances you'll see the features you want.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by whpalmer4 View Post
It appears the browser you went back to doesn't do 2 of the 3 things you mentioned, either, unless you insert some 3rd party software.
Yeah, Saft and SafariStand. (The latter was crucial once I got used to OW, as it adds thumbnail tabs.) I don't like relying on unsupported hacks, but as a practical matter it's been a better overall experience. Regrettably, there are no posted plans for SafariStand SL compatibility in 64-bit mode — but I can live with 32-bit operation if it means having the right features.

Quote:
Contributing to forum discussions is mostly pointless, if you're trying to get Omni to implement or fix something. Sending email … is not
I'm not sure why Omni hosts this subforum if you're correct — but, in any event, I've been careful to do both.

Last edited by PhilMac; 2009-09-04 at 07:09 AM.. Reason: additonal detail
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilMac View Post
I'm not sure why Omni hosts this subforum if you're correct — but, in any event, I've been careful to do both.
The forums are for users to help each other; Omni employees read and respond as time permits, but there's no guarantee a given post will be read or answered. And the "voting" on features (which influences development work) only happens in their database, which gets updated by the support ninja who reads your email.

It's sort of like the Apple discussion forums: you can find answers there, some Apple employees might even respond now and then, and probably there are some more who read but don't respond, but to get an actual bug report into the system where it will be tracked and maybe even fixed you have to go elsewhere.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by whpalmer4 View Post
The forums are for users to help each other; Omni employees read and respond as time permits
Oh — I meant specifically the Feature Requests forum. I mean, I like wholly theoretical, useless debates as much as the next guy on the internet; but I'd been imagining that a regular look over the threads here, at least, was on the agenda for those working on OW.

Anyhow, if something as trivial as "Undo Last Closed Tab" hasn't gotten enough votes to make it in yet, something seems to me to be out of order with whatever system is in use.

I'd be happy to be educated out of that supposition by someone on the team; but as it is I am more than a little frustrated.


As an aside, it would be nice to know what is at the top of the list. I know one can't guarantee road-maps, much less timeframes, but I'd prefer to have some basis for hope (or not) rather than none.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilMac View Post
Oh — I meant specifically the Feature Requests forum. I mean, I like wholly theoretical, useless debates as much as the next guy on the internet; but I'd been imagining that a regular look over the threads here, at least, was on the agenda for those working on OW.
I suspect, though have no way of confirming, that there's an element of "if you can't be bothered to send a request to the ninjas with a 30 second email, how important is this feature to you, really?" I'm not speaking of you in particular, as you do send them in, but in general.

Quote:
Anyhow, if something as trivial as "Undo Last Closed Tab" hasn't gotten enough votes to make it in yet, something seems to me to be out of order with whatever system is in use.

I'd be happy to be educated out of that supposition by someone on the team; but as it is I am more than a little frustrated.
Looking at the release notes briefly, perhaps it was thought that the changes that have been done recently would benefit more users for the amount of work put in, based on what they see in the requests database. You could always call up Omni and ask them directly! Now that they aren't charging for the program, it's probably more important than ever to get votes in for desired changes.
Quote:
As an aside, it would be nice to know what is at the top of the list. I know one can't guarantee road-maps, much less timeframes, but I'd prefer to have some basis for hope (or not) rather than none.
I'd be happy just to know what else is on the list! It's tough knowing which boxes to tick on the voting ballot when they aren't labeled :-)
 
Adding support for some sort of undo closed tab is definitely on the list.

I also want to confirm what was said, sending support mail in IS the best way to reach us and make sure your votes for things are counted. That said, forums do have their weight and we do transfer conversations into our trackers. I know things get missed or overlooked though, it's not intentional it just happens sometimes.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilMac View Post
Anyhow, if something as trivial as "Undo Last Closed Tab" hasn't gotten enough votes to make it in yet, something seems to me to be out of order with whatever system is in use.
We actually tried to implement this for 5.0, but it turned into a bigger architectural/design change than we had time for and we had to shelve it.

The underlying issue is that right now, undo is managed separately for each tab. For the most part, this is great: if you're editing a forum post in this browser window, then need to look up something in another tab and end up typing in a text field there, when you return to this tab window you expect Undo to only undo your local edits here, not in the other tab (which might not even exist anymore).

But now I close this tab, and my focus returns to another tab. Undo is managed by that tab, which doesn't know anything about this tab that I just closed. (And, really, what if I did just want to undo a change I was editing there? Do I really want it to undo closing some unrelated tab?)

OK, so maybe it's just a question of figuring out the appropriate focus. For example, if the focus is the Workspaces window, it seems reasonable that Undo would undo recent changes to that workspace, re-opening tabs, going back in history, etc.

But is that really discoverable? Or convenient? Maybe workspace changes should get their own Undo/Redo menu item in the Workspace menu?

Anyway, that's why it's more complicated than just "remember what you closed last and reopen it when I ask"—it has nothing to do with the feature itself (which is fairly simple), and all to do with figuring out an appropriate way to present that feature through the interface.
 
i don't think "undo closed tab" should be linked to the normal undo chain at all, Ken. It should be separate, like a menu or button. How Opera 10 does it is really nice. Each remembered tab keeps its history too.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Handycam View Post
i don't think "undo closed tab" should be linked to the normal undo chain at all, Ken.
Definitely agree. The Saft and Glims add-ons for Safari do this, and I have found that implementation annoying for the reasons Ken's indicated. Seems to me it would be best as a separate command entirely.

Most basically, it comes down to: “Whoops! Didn't mean to — wait. What was that URL? Damn!” And when that happens enough times in OW (as with, say, the 300th time I try to find a word by just typing), and I’ve got a few other options available, I just have to change tools.

I appreciate very much, by the way, the responses here from Omni. I hope you'll particularly consider whpalmer4's comment about votes and the general desire for more information about what is where on your list. I mean, I have email “on the list” to get answered from when Pluto was still a planet.

Lastly, have you considered implementing some method of literal voting for new features, like WordPress did once and Dell, Second Life, and Moreover do continually?

Last edited by PhilMac; 2009-09-05 at 11:47 AM..
 
 


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