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I'm a big fan of the open and free exchange of ideas on these forums. However, I need to say that several of the latest posts, from several posters, are dangerously close to the redline on my "don't let visitors ad-hominem each other" meter.

I find a perverse humor in the fact that folk that want to flame us are on much more solid ground than folks that want to flame each other on our forums. Omni does business on the internet, which means possessing the ability to take negative feedback on board. We can take it; visitors shouldn't have to.

It's my opinion that you can't really debate someone out of an opinion that they hold. If folks want to try to do that, they're welcome to give it a shot. Treating each other with respect as you try is non-negotiable, though.
 
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Originally Posted by endoftheQ View Post
OK, so how do you explain:

Tags: (2009-06-11)

Document Interchange: (2010-07-27)

Text Expander (2010-12-08)

Look at the dates, whpalmer4, these are from years-and-years ago. Where are they?
I think Doug Hofstadter hit the nail on the head:

Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.

Note also that all of the quotes you provided were expressions of interest in doing it, not promises to ship by any particular date. Indeed, I'm not sure that anything has changed to make them any less enthusiastic about those projects. I would certainly still be interested in doing them, were I an engineer there.
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How about some basic import/export functions? Add a contact to an action? The ability to search in the notes field? Email out from iPhone? Move sans desktop? etc. etc. ad nauseum
There are two import routes available without resort to scripting, and at least three export routes. While it hasn't always been convenient to get arbitrary data in or out, I've yet to throw up my hands and say "I can't do it." If your beef is that you can't do this on the iOS software, well, okay. To me, exporting data for report generation seems like a power-user operation likely better done on the desktop. Multi-line import would be nice, and it seems to me more likely to be useful in an "away from the desk" scenario.

I don't know why the search doesn't handle notes, although perhaps there's a performance issue there. Most people I know with an iPad use it instead of the iPhone. No comfort if you don't have an iPad or don't have it with you, of course, but at least the functionality is there on one platform, unlike some of your wish list items. I don't know what "move sans desktop" is supposed to mean. I don't recall bumping into any scenarios where I couldn't move something where it needed to go.

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OG can't even be bothered to integrate StOF into their own apps!
True enough, but admit it — at that point, you'd be complaining that you couldn't invoke StOF on multiple items :-)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian View Post
I'm a big fan of the open and free exchange of ideas on these forums. However, I need to say that several of the latest posts, from several posters, are dangerously close to the redline on my "don't let visitors ad-hominem each other" meter.

I find a perverse humor in the fact that folk that want to flame us are on much more solid ground than folks that want to flame each other on our forums. Omni does business on the internet, which means possessing the ability to take negative feedback on board. We can take it; visitors shouldn't have to.

It's my opinion that you can't really debate someone out of an opinion that they hold. If folks want to try to do that, they're welcome to give it a shot. Treating each other with respect as you try is non-negotiable, though.
Sincere apologies, Brian, my fault entirely. This, however, doesn't get you out of field testing intl. nearby contexts the next time you're in Brighton!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by whpalmer4 View Post
I think Doug Hofstadter hit the nail on the head:

Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.

Note also that all of the quotes you provided were expressions of interest in doing it, not promises to ship by any particular date. Indeed, I'm not sure that anything has changed to make them any less enthusiastic about those projects. I would certainly still be interested in doing them, were I an engineer there.

There are two import routes available without resort to scripting, and at least three export routes. While it hasn't always been convenient to get arbitrary data in or out, I've yet to throw up my hands and say "I can't do it." If your beef is that you can't do this on the iOS software, well, okay. To me, exporting data for report generation seems like a power-user operation likely better done on the desktop. Multi-line import would be nice, and it seems to me more likely to be useful in an "away from the desk" scenario.

I don't know why the search doesn't handle notes, although perhaps there's a performance issue there. Most people I know with an iPad use it instead of the iPhone. No comfort if you don't have an iPad or don't have it with you, of course, but at least the functionality is there on one platform, unlike some of your wish list items. I don't know what "move sans desktop" is supposed to mean. I don't recall bumping into any scenarios where I couldn't move something where it needed to go.

True enough, but admit it — at that point, you'd be complaining that you couldn't invoke StOF on multiple items :-)
The OmniFolk were eager enough to find resources to leap on the beta-Siri minority bandwagon but 'fixing' contacts which has been discussed since the release of OF for iPhone and was I believe at one time (correct me if I'm wrong!) the most requested item on the Ninjas' lists has never happened, despite waiting year-after-year-after... it's something that would have benefited all iDevice and desktop users and one example (amongst many) why I have such a downer on 'voting'!

I accept that there may be good reasons that OG aren't capable of better integrating the suite or coding in basic OS functions, I wish they'd just say so, then I wouldn't bang on about how shoddy it is that you can email out or cut-and-paste from an iPad but not from an iPhone or that contacts on the desktop translate into gobbledegook on an iDevice. You might recall (way back) that I ended up volunteering to sync a Member's iPhone to my desktop because he'd jammed stuff in it with no way out and there's still no way out.

The same goes for import/export on iOS. Document Interchange is a core iOS function, enabling it would mean there is some point in attaching files to actions. Hundreds of apps (if not many thousands) support OPML, if I draw a mind-map on my iPad, I then have to export the OPML, import it into OO on the desktop, then into OF. Why? All this is GTDVVS, getting things done very very slowly. For these reasons, and many others, I still hold to the belief that it's completely misleading for OF (on iOS) to be flogged as a 'standalone' product.

Yes, you can copy-and-paste actions about on an iPad but it's a chore and you quickly realise what a kludge that is when other apps let you drag-and-drop. Wait!!! You're saying you can search in notes fields on your iPad? You can move actions between projects on the iPhone? OK, help please, what am I doing wrong? :(

Perhaps the proposed complete revamp of desktop OF will simplify it sufficiently to enable better synergy between the suite? I can but live in hope!

Oh, and yes, what's wrong with wanting multiple StOF?!! :)

Last edited by endoftheQ; 2012-05-25 at 06:44 AM..
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian View Post
.. It's my opinion that you can't really debate someone out of an opinion that they hold. If folks want to try to do that, they're welcome to give it a shot. Treating each other with respect as you try is non-negotiable, though.
Duly noted ... and my apologies all around.

Last edited by DrJJWMac; 2012-05-25 at 06:24 AM..
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJJWMac View Post
Duly noted ... and my apologies all around.
I think Brian's comments were really aimed at that miscreant Bill (whpalmer4). :P
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by endoftheQ View Post
I think Brian's comments were really aimed at that miscreant Bill (whpalmer4). :P
Brian regularly takes me to the woodshed. It's the price I pay for always being right :-)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by endoftheQ View Post
The OmniFolk were eager enough to find resources to leap on the beta-Siri minority bandwagon but 'fixing' contacts which has been discussed since the release of OF for iPhone and was I believe at one time (correct me if I'm wrong!) the most requested item on the Ninjas' lists has never happened, despite waiting year-after-year-after... it's something that would have benefited all iDevice and desktop users and one example (amongst many) why I have such a downer on 'voting'!
They don't actually say that the items on the list will be worked in order of popularity, just that it is a factor in their decision-making. If they are working on a particular area of the app in a release, I would expect that they would go take a look at related requests further down the list. If something is a very popular request, but implementing it would be too destabilizing for a minor release, I would expect it to be pushed off into the next major release. That's certainly what happened with OmniPlan.

As for attaching contacts to actions being a universally desired addition, I know of one person who has never jumped on that bandwagon. My view is that either I expect to call this person repeatedly, in which case I'll put them in the address book and the phone will have it, or it's someone I'm going to call once, in which case address book integration is irrelevant, because the contact won't be in there. Now, I hear you saying "but you'll have to get the phone to look up the number in the address book when you go to make the call" — and my answer is that I would also have to do that same operation to attach the contact to the action. From my vantage point, Omni has allocated the proper amount of resources to this feature :-)
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You might recall (way back) that I ended up volunteering to sync a Member's iPhone to my desktop because he'd jammed stuff in it with no way out and there's still no way out.
I'm pretty sure I described how you can do this, but it does require tools not found in the app. I'd characterize it as tedious, but not impossible — the sort of thing I would do once for a friend, but with the understanding that they would watch and take careful notes, because the surgeon's mantra would apply: "see one, do one, teach one" :-)
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The same goes for import/export on iOS. Document Interchange is a core iOS function, enabling it would mean there is some point in attaching files to actions. Hundreds of apps (if not many thousands) support OPML, if I draw a mind-map on my iPad, I then have to export the OPML, import it into OO on the desktop, then into OF. Why? All this is GTDVVS, getting things done very very slowly. For these reasons, and many others, I still hold to the belief that it's completely misleading for OF (on iOS) to be flogged as a 'standalone' product.
I share some of your unhappiness here. I think there is a substantial set of users for which OmniFocus on iPad is a very reasonable standalone tool. There are others who could be quickly migrated into that set with a small number of changes, with many of those changes being small-scaled compared to enhancements like supporting creating perspectives or possibly the Document Interchange work. There are also people who will find it frustrating not to have all of the power of the desktop version, but that is impossible to provide, and I hope you agree that can't be the only metric for whether or not it is a standalone product. Personally, I do manage to use the iPad for most of my OmniFocus work, even when I'm sitting at the Mac, and I think a few more changes like the Forecast view sort option recently given to the iPhone could cover quite a bit of ground for the Mac-less without having to build a UI for constructing perspectives, for example. Maybe the changes don't even have to be made in the app itself; imagine an Omni web page you could visit from a browser, give it your Omni sync or WebDAV credentials, and it builds a perspective and stuffs it into your database. I'm tempted to try building something like that, because I've got a lot of more important stuff I should be doing instead :-)
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Yes, you can copy-and-paste actions about on an iPad but it's a chore and you quickly realise what a kludge that is when other apps let you drag-and-drop. Wait!!! You're saying you can search in notes fields on your iPad? You can move actions between projects on the iPhone? OK, help please, what am I doing wrong? :(
I use drag and drop in the iPad OF pretty much every time I edit a project. Perhaps we have different ideas about what that means. I'm reshuffling actions in a project, not trying to assign actions to projects. I don't think the latter would work well with more than a dozen or so projects; I don't think it works particularly well on the Mac, either.

No, I didn't say I could search the notes field on the iOS devices. I speculated that performance issues might be the reason that wasn't initially provided. Perspectives don't search it either (I rechecked that).

Moving actions between projects on the iPhone is possible. For details, send $19.95 plus $5.95 s/h to me at my paypal account :-)

Here's the trick: you edit the project containing the errant action. Select the action, tap on the project field, and assign the new project.

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Oh, and yes, what's wrong with wanting multiple StOF?!! :)
Oh, nothing, of course, just an illustration that some people are never satisfied, no matter how much you give them (I'm a proud member of this club!)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by endoftheQ View Post
Sincere apologies, Brian, my fault entirely. This, however, doesn't get you out of field testing intl. nearby contexts the next time you're in Brighton!
I was actually in London around Christmas and did some testing in the Stepney Green area but couldn't get the problem to reproduce for me. OmniFocus and the Maps app were both able to locate the building I was staying in based on the post code.

Frustrating, and doubly so because I'll have fewer opportunities to visit your fair country in the future, I'm afraid.

Last edited by Brian; 2012-05-25 at 11:59 AM.. Reason: removed unnecessary hyphen
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by endoftheQ View Post
you can [...] cut-and-paste from an iPad but not from an iPhone
In OmniFocus for iPhone, tap and hold on an items' checkbox to bring up the cut/copy popover. My non-engineer's understanding is that the behavior we use on the iPad wasn't available on the iPhone when we coded that up.

I'll file a feature request just in case later versions of iOS make the iPad behavior possible via the iPhone APIs. That may or may not be the case.
 
 




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