[Dave T]

I'm a big fan of Outliner, Graffle, Dictionary and now Plan. I gave out Dazzle last Christmas to my internet friends.

I'm a Mac fanatic so some readers may have to forgive the mention of a Mac-centric product. My early years found me writing with FullWrite Professional from Ashton-Tate. Later it was absorbed by Borland and left on the shelf for a couple of years. Eventually Borland spun it out and let the Akimbo people take it back into the market. They upgraded it and gave FullWrite a new lease on life.

FullWrite was promoted as a document processor instead of a word processor because it offered terrific outlining, notation, citation, indexing, bibliography, sidebar, and layout features. It used a chapter method or organization which automatically generated TOCs, allowed for elements to move around and keep their page references, and it allowed a writer to work from the outline through to the final document. I always loved the feature where I could drag outline points around and the attached paragraphs would move with them. It also allowed a collapsed version of the document to print only the paragraphs and leave out the outline references. I could go on and on but I think those who have ever written any truly long and involved technical documents would appreciate the power FullWrite offered a writer.

Eventually (and it took nearly ten years) MS Word adopted many of the same features and it eventually gave people a reasonable alternative to FullWrite. About this same time Apple moved into their OS X phase and Akimbo Systems went under leaving FullWrite a free and open product.

There are a significant number of writers who were loyal to FullWrite Professional and generated a lot of documents using it. Many of those who have shared their experiences with me have said it was still the best writing environment they have ever used. I echo that sentiment. Even Apple's new Pages program teases me with the potential to replace FullWrite's legendary status in Mac folklore. I find Pages comes up short (and I've been through all the rest of those word processors).

Since I've been so pleased with all of Omni's products I wondered if they would even consider taking up the challenge of developing their own incarnation of FullWrite (perhaps OmniWrite) in which the integration with Outliner, Graffle, and Plan would allow a person to develop the schema with Graffle, generate outlines in Outliner, and begin a layout in OmniWrite to finish the project. I realize the enormous barrier to entry into the writing software market and I can only echo some of the sentiment I've read elsewhere in this forum regarding the kinds of features screenwriters need. As well there are law offices with particular needs and other niche industries which might find a new document processor from Omni a welcome development.

I suppose I could ask readers to both vote and comment on what I'm proposing and let the Omni people know a little more about features you need in OmniWrite and capabilities you think would help distinguish it from the rest of the market. I'm quite encouraged by the OmniPlan product development so I feel somewhat more comfortable stating this need.

Maybe it IS time for a new writing program to emerge in the Mac environment and challenge the hegemony of that company in Redmond.

If something like FullWrite Professional was to re-appear I know quite a few previous happy customers who would jump at the chance to use it. It is always easy to ask other people to make something for you. The mysteries of software development prevent me from making a technical case for the product but I can only hope other forum readers will endorse my proposal. Otherwise I expect to be shot down in flames. :o

Cheers.

[justG]

Originally Posted by Dave T

Maybe it IS time for a new writing program to emerge in the Mac environment and challenge the hegemony of that company in Redmond.

I ask because you didn't mention it, and it's marketed as a writer's tool: Have you tried Scrivener?

[xiamenese]

Originally Posted by justG

I ask because you didn't mention it, and it's marketed as a writer's tool: Have you tried Scrivener?

I was going to suggest you have a look at Scrivener. I love OmniApps, and am sure they could come up with a great writing tool, but as a post says in the OmniWeb forum, they are a bit stretched at the moment anyway. And since someone is pushing hard for Omni to produce a PhotoShop killer which will do everything PhotoShop does, but with a fraction of the code ... :eek:

I am still evaluating Scrivener, but it seems to me to be very good as a tool, beating Ulysses--which I had a look at briefly once, but didn't enthral--Jer's writer and others; and it's available for a very reasonable price.

Mark

[Nyarlathotep]

Well, I did notice that the basic/mini user manual that Omni did for OmniPlan was produced by OmniGraffle, so it looks like it can be used for documents.

Obviously, it's not a word processor or dtp application, but it does have the tools for some things.

You could always try Stone Studio's Create for something more powerful than Pages, though.

[hmurchison]

Perhaps Omni should create a new software app paradigm.

Instead of a dedicated writing tool create the perfect blend of apps.

OmniDeity or OmniPotent

It would do Notepad stuff like Yojimbo/Journler/Notebook
But toss in the excellent outlining of OO and diagramming of OG basic.

Then toss in Webkit support for web handling.

Finally do what most apps don't do in this genre. Offer excellent writing tools.

Omni makes all the building blocks...now they just have to put'em together.

[Smithcraft]

FullWrite was such a great program, only Omni could bring it back from the grave.

SC

[Tacitus]

To be honest I think they would do better pursuing the PhotoShop killer. I've always felt there is room for something like Paintshop Pro (PC only) which manages to combine vector and bitmap editing in the one app. Pitched at the right price it should sell.

[Dave T]

I took a little time one week and gave Scrivener a going over.

I gotta say it's a wonderful program. Totally stable and very intuitive. It's the kind of writing environment many writers I know would enjoy working in. My wife was especially interested in it because she tends to 'build' a project from fragments and scraps of ideas just as Scrivener is designed to handle.

I'm also very impressed with the implementation of the cork-board visualization and the organizational tools surrounding the writing environment. But I gotta say it's not a document processor. In fact the author of the software even states as such. As much as it is a wonderful pure writing tool and would be welcome in most people's work flow concept it lacks a host of capabilities which are unsupportable in an RTF or TXT document format.

What I intended to begin by submitting my proposal for OMNI to take up the development of a document processor was a general discussion around what features would make a better word or document processor tool.

Scrivener brings a couple of really useful and powerful organizational concepts to the table and this moves the discussion forward a little bit. Scrivener has features FullWrite might have wanted to invent. As I spoke of the handling of outlines and sections it is clear Scrivener is based on the same notion of being able to work with the various incomplete, partial, and unfocussed areas of a person's writing project and refine them as the writing proceeds.

If one were to imagine having Scrivener as a module within FullWrite then the program would be a killer app.

Now I don't want to sound like I'm trying to earn a position with Apple Inc. in their iWork division selling Pages through a discussion forum ...but... I'm liking the direction the newest version is going in.

Bringing a two module concept forward is a real improvement and putting contextual buttons on the bar at the top is going to make my working in that environment SO much easier. I already feel comfortable building documents in Pages and with their recent improvements I know I will enjoy it even more. Apple seems focussed on creating a new document making tool. Their addition of flowing text is a welcome improvement. The instant Alpha tool is truly inspired. So, I'm still hopeful Pages will get a glossary function, a bibliography feature set, and some citation power in the future.

I'm really interested in seeing if the parameters for a total document tool could be outlined here and presented as a possible direction for the OMNI group. But if Pages continues to improve and starts doing the kinds of things FullWrite used to do then I will have to say there would be no point in OMNI attempting to chase that car.

Nearly everything I used to be able to do in FullWrite is slowly being built into Pages. It would not take much more in the way of features to match or exceed what FullWrite finished in. A little more outlining power, a little more kerning and layout control, and perhaps a robust glossary and citation capability with the usual bibliography and index automation would mean FullWrite has been reincarnated.

Even now many features in Pages (and Keynote) greatly exceed the capabilities of FullWrite. The text block and tight object wrap capabilities are right up there with FullWrite's. I don't really expect the Styles to come any where near what FullWrite 2.0 started out with (their plug in extensions thing is still a great idea poorly implemented) but it would be interesting to see future versions of Pages adopt many of the same capabilities.

But that's just me.

I'm interested in reading what others have to say about the possibilities of OMNI Group developing an interest in the document segment of the market.

By the way. I do hope all you people who suggested I try Scrivener made your own payments to the author. These people deserve your cash.

Cheers.

[dude]

I have Scrinever and Nisus Writer Pro. Both apps have their place. For my MS Word stuff, I use NWP for everything except mail merges and that feature is coming soon.

I would like to see Omni develop all software to be honest but I think they are understaffed for that. :-)