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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldaron View Post
What an odd omission. Most pads (and certainly mine) seem to be shared (at least on occasion).
mmmhhh... good point Aldaron. I didn't think about password-on-launch until I was planning an 18th birthday bash for one of my grandkids. We have four iPads in a household of seven and we pass them around, so I didn't plan the party in OF because of the risk of someone sneaking a peek in my GTD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian View Post
We've gotten some requests for a password on OmniFocus for iPhone over the years, but other features have consistently been requested more frequently. It seemed a safe bet that the iPad app would play out the same way, and so far, it mostly has. Some folks want it, but it's not a top request yet.

Definitely worth sending the support ninjas email, though - it's not gonna move up that list any other way. :-)
Brian, forgive me if I'm slightly disillusioned about the 'voting' process, but 'contacts' (which has the most votes and has been requested since 2007) still hasn't made it!

I wouldn't have thought that password-on-launch was a huge coding commitment, I see it in numerous free & 99 Apps, often with the additional ability to also separately password protect individual items or folders (ie. GoodReader). As long as it was off-by-default it's not exactly going to have a negative impact on the user-base and would be a positive, easily achievable feature benefitting those like Aldaron who need it, and an advantage to those of us who might want to use it on occasion.

Having to 'vote' on something this logical seems a bit pointless, especially as I remain unconvinced that 'voting' actually achieves anything.

Last edited by endoftheQ; 2010-09-21 at 02:53 PM..
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by endoftheQ View Post
Brian, forgive me if I'm slightly disillusioned about the 'voting' process, but 'contacts' (which has the most votes and has been requested since 2007) still hasn't made it!
Support for contacts actually got the first customer request in 2006, not 2007. :-)

Contacts were at the top of the list when I originally mentioned it, but there are other requests that are more popular now; contacts are in the #10 slot. The current top item has twice the votes that contacts do, and was entered more recently.

Moral here: customer needs change over time.

I understand you're concerned, but I assure you: the fact that we haven't reached the end of our to-do list doesn't mean we're ignoring it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by endoftheQ View Post
I wouldn't have thought that password-on-launch was a huge coding commitment
It's not really about the size of the commitment; in general, taking time away from stuff that a lot of folks want in order to do something that a smaller group wants isn't the best way forward.

If nothing else, opportunity cost: an hour you spend doing X cannot be used doing Y. You cannot give everyone everything they want, so you make choices that give the most people the most things they want. I can't think of any features currently in the app that I would have put off if it meant we could have added this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by endoftheQ View Post
Having to 'vote' on something this logical seems a bit pointless, especially as I remain unconvinced that 'voting' actually achieves anything.
All I can do is describe the way we've been doing business and helping customers. Voting is how to influence the direction our products take; each customers' voice gets attention and consideration along with the other folks using the products. It doesn't guarantee that we'll do it immediately, and it doesn't override our experience building good software, but it is helpful and we do appreciate it.

It's been working pretty well so far, but there's no guarantee that any one customer's most desired feature will line up with the majority's. In the meantime, choosing to opt out seems like it would only make other customers' votes more powerful.
 
Brian,

Apologies if I'm being dumb but I'm with ifonline (no slur intended mate!).

OK, 'contacts' was first raised in 2006, which I guess makes it initially a desktop feature request. In July this year it had the most votes. Suddenly it's now #10. What happened? I'm guessing iPad feature issues are now trumping it, ie. calendar view, etc.

So I go back to asking what is the point of voting? If Apple launches iGizmo next year, is Omni simply going to play catch-up again? Will the desktop programs be left to languish, (ie. OminiOutliner) and feature requests for desktop, iPhone & iPad put on the backburner while a slew of new feature requests for iGizmo overtake current ones but don't actually get implemented because they in turn will be overtaken?

Password-on-Launch isn't high on my agenda, just nice to have, but I can appreciate why others, especially those younger than myself (which is everyone!) would want it. My kids and grandkids share their technology in a way that I wouldn't have dreamt of 20 years ago: "anyone got free minutes?" being a frequent cry in my household leading to the great iPhone swap.

I also understand Grinder's concerns. I've moved my Someday/Maybe out to iMandalArt which does have a multiple password locks, so I'm much more honest in entering items because I know others won't get to see them (divorce wife, evict kids, sell grandkids, etc.), although I have to confess that the folder name 'S/M' and it being secured has raised a few eyebrows and some ribald comments!

I accept that no matter how many votes a feature receives it may not be implemented, ie. tags, but I'm truly trying to understand what the benefits of the voting process actually are. I can't recall any feature requests on this Board being implemented on iDevices, ignoring the bug-fixes which in my book should never need to be voted on in the first place.

I'd be happy to 'opt-in' again if I genuinely understood there was actually a point!

Sorry in advance if this comes across as rude or blunt, it's not intended to be! :)

Last edited by endoftheQ; 2010-09-23 at 08:45 AM..
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by endoftheQ View Post
OK, 'contacts' was first raised in 2006, which I guess makes it initially a desktop feature request. In July this year it had the most votes. Suddenly it's now #10. What happened? I'm guessing iPad feature issues are now trumping it, ie. calendar view, etc.
Don't know if Brian is lumping the different OmniFocus products together in his counts or not. Doesn't really matter, because there is a very plausible way that it could go from #1 to #10: it only had a slight lead when it was #1, and the other features that pushed past it got more in the interim. And if people seeing new features on the iPad app realize that they would be a welcome addition to the desktop app, why is it that Omni shouldn't address that desire first, if it has garnered more requests?
Quote:
So I go back to asking what is the point of voting?

I'd be happy to 'opt-in' again if I genuinely understood there was actually a point!
It is really quite simple. Omni is taking an ongoing poll to see which potential features have the most user interest, to help them prioritize how they utilize their resources. You can vote, and have some influence, or you can do something else (or nothing), which has no influence. Your choice.

Just because you can't see the inner workings of the black box doesn't mean it doesn't work the way its constructor describes!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by whpalmer4 View Post
Doesn't really matter, because there is a very plausible way that it could go from #1 to #10: it only had a slight lead when it was #1, and the other features that pushed past it got more in the interim. And if people seeing new features on the iPad app realize that they would be a welcome addition to the desktop app, why is it that Omni shouldn't address that desire first, if it has garnered more requests?
In that case, whpalmer4, doesn't it mean that the constant shift of votes means either nothing gets implemented or Omni has to choose? If loyal users have been requesting 'contacts' for over 5 years should the johnny-come-lately's be accommodated over them?

I appreciate the logic of 'password-on-launch' in the same way as I do about 'contacts', although neither are something I'd vote for as they are way down my list of priorities. That said, IMHO, this Board, and its' Members (myself included) are unlikely to reflect the wants or needs of the average OF App user.

However, I appreciate that if I have an action 'call Bill' or 'email whpalmer4', I click on the link and OF brings up the relevant contact, well that seems a very logical addition to GTD, instead of me closing OF and then searching through the half-a-dozen Williams in my address book.

OK, we know that Ken is currently working on location-based alerts. That may well be currently #1 in the voting list. My experience of location-based alerts in other Apps is that either they are accurate and use GPS which results in a dead battery after a couple of hours or use wifi/3g and trigger alerts when you get within a couple of miles of the intended target (I'm so hoping that Ken's found a third way!). However, I can't help feeling that feature is a me-too gimmick over 'password-on-launch' or 'contacts'.

Ken also mentioned that he wanted to implement Document Interchange after I raised the issue. Again, that to me is logical (I know, I know, I'm sounding Vulcan!) but I doubt there were many votes for it.

So, sorry, I still feel in the dark about the point of 'voting'. :confused:

Last edited by endoftheQ; 2010-09-23 at 10:36 AM..
 
Come on, you're a smart guy. No one said customer feedback is the only thing they take into consideration! They use their own judgment and vision about what will make a good product, combined with customer feedback. Just like any other successful company does...

Why would you think that someone who likes the Forecast view on the iPad and wants to see it on the Mac is a Johnny-come-lately? At the OmniFocus for iPad price point, I'll bet that the majority of the buyers to date are existing OmniFocus users. The number of customers who discover OmniFocus on the iPad, then buy the desktop app and start clamoring for the Forecast view is undoubtedly small in comparison. You would have Omni first clear out the existing queue of requests before bringing anything new from the iPad to the other apps? And how to reconcile that with the complaints that the UI isn't identical on each platform? No new features for anything (or heaven forbid, new platforms) until the development database is emptied of existing requests?

As for your points about not seeing features requested on the forum being implemented, or the forum not being a true cross-section of the user base, that is one of the reasons they ask you to contact the support ninjas, because they are the ones who have interaction with the larger customer base. This time last year, they were handing out ticket numbers in the 483XXX range, and I got one this morning that was 568XXX. That's well over 1,000 customer interactions per week, whereas the forums usually average 25-40 per day, not even 1/3 of that volume (and very few tickets are issued as a result of a forum post). Note that I am also not accounting for the many customer interactions that do not generate a ticket (probably a fairly sizeable number of cases), but you better believe that if the support people are grumbling at lunch or dinner about all the calls they are getting about XYZ, Ken and Tim are listening, whether or not there was a ticket.

On the other hand, if you don't vote, I won't have to worry about you voting on the wrong side of some issue I care about. Forget I said anything ;)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by whpalmer4 View Post
Come on, you're a smart guy. No one said customer feedback is the only thing they take into consideration!
Ahh, of course, you're based in the USA. In Great Britain, the customer is always right!

Quote:
Originally Posted by whpalmer4 View Post
Why would you think that someone who likes the Forecast view on the iPad and wants to see it on the Mac is a Johnny-come-lately?
Umm... maybe because someone else voiced their logical 'contact' request FIVE years earlier and during July of this year it was the #1 feature request?

Quote:
Originally Posted by whpalmer4 View Post
At the OmniFocus for iPad price point, I'll bet that the majority of the buyers to date are existing OmniFocus users. The number of customers who discover OmniFocus on the iPad, then buy the desktop app and start clamoring for the Forecast view is undoubtedly small in comparison.
Oh... good to know that you doubted Ken when he said "iPad or Bust"!

Quote:
Originally Posted by whpalmer4 View Post
You would have Omni first clear out the existing queue of requests before bringing anything new from the iPad to the other apps?
Yes... wouldn't you? Unless you believe in being endoftheQ!

Quote:
Originally Posted by whpalmer4 View Post
And how to reconcile that with the complaints that the UI isn't identical on each platform?
Stupidity? Incompetence? Couldn't care less? Let's spin some straw into gold? You tell me?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by whpalmer4 View Post
As for your points about not seeing features requested on the forum being implemented, or the forum not being a true cross-section of the user base, that is one of the reasons they ask you to contact the support ninjas, because they are the ones who have interaction with the larger customer base. This time last year, they were handing out ticket numbers in the 483XXX range, and I got one this morning that was 568XXX. That's well over 1,000 customer interactions per week
Could 999 of those 1,000 possibly be... requests for bug fixes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by whpalmer4 View Post
And rightly so it is full of bugs!
Quote:
Originally Posted by whpalmer4 View Post
On the other hand, if you don't vote, I won't have to worry about you voting on the wrong side of some issue I care about. Forget I said anything ;)
I wouldn't worry Bill, nothing has convinced me so far that 'voting' counts!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by endoftheQ View Post
Umm... maybe because someone else voiced their logical 'contact' request FIVE years earlier and during July of this year it was the #1 feature request?
Really? Five years earlier? I've got an email in my inbox from June 2007 with the Apple Store San Francisco highlights, featuring "The Omni Group Presents OmniFocus", "don't miss this first look at OmniFocus, the newest product from The Omni Group"... Didn't realize it's already 2012!

Now, why would someone has used OmniFocus on the Mac for years be a Johnny-come-lately in asking for an iPad feature to be duplicated on the Mac?
Quote:
Oh... good to know that you doubted Ken when he said "iPad or Bust"!
Doubted him about what? The schedule? Of course! I'll take the other side of that bet just about any time :) I just stumbled across a post of mine in a thread that was active earlier today where I opined that I thought it unlikely we'd see OmniFocus 2.0 prior to March. It was March 2010 that I was referring to there, but I think I may be safe even if I'd said March 2011!
Quote:
Could 999 of those 1,000 possibly be... requests for bug fixes?
Dunno. I doubt it, unless everyone is reporting the same handful of bugs.
Quote:
I wouldn't worry Bill, nothing has convinced me so far that 'voting' counts!
So how is 'not voting' working out for you?

Do you vote in your elections? Do you have any evidence that it makes a difference? If you vote, but don't have any evidence of efficacy, why do you do it? Isn't that the same situation you claim here?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by whpalmer4 View Post
Really? Five years earlier? I've got an email in my inbox from June 2007 with the Apple Store San Francisco highlights, featuring "The Omni Group Presents OmniFocus", "don't miss this first look at OmniFocus, the newest product from The Omni Group"... Didn't realize it's already 2012!
I apologise profusely for my inability to count!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian View Post
Support for contacts actually got the first customer request in 2006, not 2007. :-)
OK, thanks-a-bunch Brian, now we're both in the wrong!

Quote:
Originally Posted by whpalmer4 View Post
Now, why would someone has used OmniFocus on the Mac for years be a Johnny-come-lately in asking for an iPad feature to be duplicated on the Mac?
C'mon, I didn't mean the individual, I meant the feature request, but I'm devastated for causing you any confusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whpalmer4 View Post
Doubted him about what? The schedule? Of course! I'll take the other side of that bet just about any time :)
No takers here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Case View Post
Integration between OmniFocus and OmniPlan is one of the big features we're working on for OmniFocus 2 and OmniPlan 2. We expect to release both OmniPlan 2 and OmniFocus 2 sometime in 2010.
You so know I've got my fingers crossed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by whpalmer4 View Post
Dunno. I doubt it, unless everyone is reporting the same handful of bugs.
Likely they are, but isn't it a worthwhile chore, as we have to 'vote' to prioritise the ones that get fixed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by whpalmer4 View Post
Do you vote in your elections? Do you have any evidence that it makes a difference? If you vote, but don't have any evidence of efficacy, why do you do it? Isn't that the same situation you claim here?
Yup, I do... but not the same thing at all. I vote. I hear the results. The one with the most votes gets in.

OK, whpalmer4, joshing aside, I doubt it would take Ken more than an hour to add password-on-launch to the code. It just seems such an easy win for Omni, add a feature that some users have requested and most might need on occasion. Why on earth make it a voting issue?

Oh, and I still don't get the point of voting anyway... ! :p

Last edited by endoftheQ; 2010-09-23 at 02:45 PM..
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by endoftheQ View Post
OK, whpalmer4, joshing aside, I doubt it would take Ken more than an hour to add password-on-launch to the code. It just seems such an easy win for Omni, add a feature that some users have requested and most might need on occasion.
Really seems like security theater to me. It doesn't protect your data from accidental deletion. Without encryption, it doesn't stop anyone from stealing your database and having a look at their leisure, so it does very little to protect you if the device is lost or stolen, or even handled out of your immediate presence. That's even less security than my suggestion of not having it on one of the screens, which at least protects against accidentally deleting the app, and someone who wants to snoop without a computer would have to know or guess that you had the app installed. You don't need passwords with people you trust (asking them to not look at your personal stuff should be sufficient), so that leaves nosy people you don't trust but are nonetheless willing to lend your iPad. If your life is full of such people, I can see how a password might be attractive, as they'll be forced to read your email, snoop in your Dropbox account, read your text messages, etc. instead of looking at your to do list, but maybe you should be finding new friends instead! I'm truly sorry if that last category also covers your family members :-)
 
 


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