Quote:
Originally Posted by frankly
1) I love how you question me about how many releases have been bug free, completely ignoring the subsequent paragraph (which you later quote) that states the approach I took when bugs presented themselves. Don't cherry-pick my posts. It doesn't help to further the conversation.
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Actually, if you go back and reread
your post, you'll see the relevant text was all in a single paragraph. I didn't quote anything from your second paragraph.
Your first paragraph implies that you expect
no bugs in a 1.0 release.
You said:
"Also, is the bar so low that we expect bugs in a 1.0 release? What are alpha and beta releases for if not to get rid of these things before releasing into production?"
You then go on to write:
"I know that you can't get it perfect on the first try but when I developed software if a bug were found...".
Here you now acknowledge that it's difficult to have a bug-free first release, which is in seeming contradiction to your earlier implication. And then you also qualify your own experience with "...
if a bug were found...".
These implications, seeming contradictions, and qualifications left me unclear as to your meaning. So I think my original quesiton was legitimate: "Have you ever shipped bug-free software?"
From your more recent post, I take it now that you haven't ever shipped a release without bugs, which was my point all along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankly
2) "but at some point you just have to ship the product." ????? Really??? They weren't delivering this to an outside client. They are under NO OBLIGATION to ever ship this product. The only obligation they have is to themselves. If this is your attitude toward software development then you WILL release buggy code.
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Of course they were delivering OmniFocus to an outside client: us!
And Omni certainly made an obligation to ship the product when they set the official release date and started accepting payments ahead of time! Even before that, there was an implicit obligation made by Omni Group by simply announcing that they were working on the application, discussing it openly, and inviting people to participate in the alpha and beta programs. Thousands of customers were sincerely *expecting* a release in the not-too-distant future!
But if we follow your reasoning, does any software company really have an obligation to anyone other than themselves? No matter who your customers are, corporate clients or home computer enthusiasts, if you let them down, they will eventually stop buying your products and the company will go out of business. The obligation, in its simplest form, is to stay in business and make money. Omni Group is no different from any other software development house in that respect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankly
3) Again, it helps if you actually read what I wrote. I did NOT say that we didn't follow a planned release schedule. What I DID say is if a bug were found that was affecting the use of the application we didn't add it to a list of bugs and plan to release all the fixes at once. We fixed it, tested the fix, and deployed it.
Let me repeat, if a bug were found that was affecting the use of the application we didn't add it to a list of bugs and plan to release all the fixes at once. We fixed it, tested the fix, and deployed it.
There are different levels of bugs to be sure but the one I mentioned about the sorting order is NOT one that I would let wait to be grouped with other fixes.
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OK, no need to get snarky. You didn't say that you didn't follow a planned release schedule. You also didn't say that you did. Let me clarify my question:
So, you fix it, test it, and deploy it. What does "deploy" mean in this case? Ship to a customer? If so, are you shipping each fix individually? Or do you accumulate multiple fixes into a point release and ship that to customers at planned intervals? I think most software shops do the latter, including Omni Group. But it sounded like you were advocating the former, no?
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankly
4) You may not be aware of any examples of exemplary customer service but that does not mean they don't exist. I deal with many companies that provide fast responses and they DO NOT require extra money in order to do this. Heck, Jet Brains (makers of IntelliJ IDEA) actually respond to queries in less than 30 minutes on EVERY occasion that I have asked them a question. Yes, less than 30 minutes.
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That's great, Jet Brains sounds like they have good customer service. I hadn't heard of them before and I've never used any of their products. But I can't think of any other companies that guarantee 24 hour response time (without additional service contracts). Sometimes you might get a response in 24 hours, but it's not guaranteed.
But that's not to say I haven't had exemplary customer service on many occasions from lots of software companies, some even within 30 minutes of my original request. Heck, I bet even Omni Group has at times responded to a customer in under 30 minutes.
But I still think expecting a guaranteed 24 hour response *all* the time without a special service contract in expecting too much and unrealistic. If you can find it, great. Enjoy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankly
5) So let me get this straight, the INTENDED function is that actions should not be sorted inside of projects? I suppose if that is how they INTENDED for it to work then it isn't a bug. It doesn't make any sense to me that it would work that way but I didn't create the specification for this product.
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Did you participate in any of the discussions of this very topic in the alpha or beta programs? If not, I strongly urge you to do a search of the forum.
Ultimately, it was decided that Planning Mode should be project-oriented and Context mode should be action-oriented. So each mode sorts its items accordingly. Sorting actions independently in Planning Mode is troublesome when everything is presented inside projects.
Note that you can also right-click a selection of actions inside a project and choose a manual sort order, but Due Date is not currently among the options.
Again, if you have strong feelings about this or good ideas on how things can be improved, I urge you to start a thread and state your case. And be sure to send your ideas to Omni Group via the Help->Send Feedback... menu item.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankly
6) It is a waste of time, no matter who you are, to work through bugs just to be able to use a piece of software. Unless you are a paid tester then it is by definition a waste of your time. I'm not sure why you would have a problem with that statement.
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I don't have a problem with that statement. I don't want to have to sort through serious bugs anymore than any other paying customer.
But didn't you just acknowledge that this sorting issue was
not a bug? And your only other bug report was non-reproducible, wasn't it?
So what other bugs are you wasting your time on? I'm not trying to be facetious. I'd really like to know, because I've not encountered any real problems. I do have a list of small issues, but nothing that really wastes my time. I make a note of it, send feedback to Omni, and occasionally discuss it here.
It was almost fun, seeing Omni listening to the feedback and fixing issues all throughout the alpha and beta phases. This has maybe slowed down a bit since the final release, but there's still regular activity in the sneaky peak builds.