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Quote:
Originally Posted by blewis View Post
Where did you get that idea? Again, I'm being sincere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by whpalmer4 View Post
if anything I posted led to your impression of what was going to happen, I apologize. I had somehow gotten the same idea, but looking back at what was actually posted by Omni folk, I don't see why.
It was actually this post here that I mentioned it, over in the 1.8 Sneaky Peek thread.

The key point of confusion came from this interview with MacNN at Macworld, where they said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacNN
"Case expects OmniFocus for the iPhone to be ported to the iPad at launch, though initially just as a resized iPhone app."
Perhaps they misunderstood the meaning of "resized iPhone app" and Ken was actually just indicating that the existing OmniFocus would work with the iPad's native screen-doubling capabilities, but it sure didn't sound like that from the article. It's also equally possible that their plans changed after Macworld and they realized that OmniGraffle and OmniGraphSketcher would consume all of their available developer resources.

(For the record, Omni has done a fantastic job with both of those apps, and if they're any indication of what we can expect in OmniFocus 2.0 for iPad, I can hardly wait to see it :) ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by whpalmer4 View Post
I'm not as bothered by unrefined text when running pixel-doubled, as the original isn't exactly something I use to demonstrate the graphics possibilities of the iPod, either. I mostly just use the pixel-doubling to get a bigger keyboard footprint.
It's something I'm willing to live with as well, although the fact that it uses the iPhone-style keyboard layout rather than the iPad keyboard is an additional annoyance with a non-native iPad app; I'm starting to get quite used to touch-typing on the iPad already, and the iPhone layout is just different enough to throw me off :)

Quote:
It would be nice to be able to use that extra screen real estate to get more items on the screen, though. If they could provide us with a version of the current app that just used all the real estate without sidetracking the project to make a "real" iPad app, I'd be happy to run it, and it wouldn't reduce the likelihood of collecting some revenue from me for the real deal.
The full screen real estate and a slightly smaller font would both be good. As it stands right now, the text is large to the point of looking a bit silly, and it would be nice to not have longer tasks names or notes needlessly truncated.

Last edited by jdh; 2010-04-06 at 08:52 AM..
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdh View Post
The full screen real estate and a slightly smaller font would both be good. As it stands right now, the text is large to the point of looking a bit silly, and it would be nice to not have longer tasks names or notes needlessly truncated.
Just to be clear, are you saying the text is large to the point of looking a bit silly when pixel-doubled, or running in the "life-sized" iPhone-in-the-middle mode? The life-sized version is a little bit bigger, but the emulated iPhone screen is a little bit bigger than the original, and it is showing the same text in both places when I compare...
 
Yes, I mean when it's pixel-doubled. Running in normal size is decent enough, but I don't really see the point of that unless I don't have my iPhone with me (which I pretty much always do).

Leaving aside possible future UI changes, the main advantage for me of running OF on the iPad would be the larger keyboard for data entry and the ability to see more information on a given screen.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blewis View Post
I don't understand why this is a "tough nut to crack". Can you enlighten us? I'm being sincere.
Craig Hockenberry did a great blog post back in 2008 called "Ringtone Apps" that points out some factors at play in the App Store. Extrapolate that blog post to the market for iPhone/iPad productivity applications - more complex than games, ongoing development required, ongoing tech support needs.

Several of those features of the App Store marketplace haven't changed since then - no timed trials, no support for discounts based on purchase history.

We've been successful in the App Store, and we love what we do; we consider ourselves very lucky to be able to do this. But there are several things that we can do in the Mac market which would make things easier on the App Store.

Last edited by Brian; 2010-04-06 at 04:44 PM.. Reason: add first sentence to last paragraph for more clarity
 
Thanks Brian. I gave it a read. Sounds like a very competitive environment.

I have a couple of thoughts:

1) package deals: most of the comments here talk about getting a discount on the iPhone/iPad apps if the user bought the desktop version. That's stated to be impossible without the current app store structure.

What about the other way around? Example, the PCalc app I bought on the iPhone came with a coupon for the desktop version. Essentially moving the package discount back into the developer's court.

I can't tell if the code is unique however.

2) I expect to pay for OF 2.0 Desktop. I expect to pay for OF 2.0. I expect that both will have new features that merit an upgrade.

2.5) I don't know if I expect that OF iPhone/iPad 2.0 and OF Desktop 2.0 will be linked or perceived to be linked. But I don't want to pay for OF 1.x iPad now and then have to pay for OF 2.0 iPad again at the end of the year.

3) I want OF iPhone to be converted to a universal app on my iPad via free App update. I want the Projects, Contexts, Perspectives to be in the left hand pane and I want the Ipad keyboard. Those are my wants, but not my entitled demands of course. I honestly don't know how much work that is for you guys.

4) I think it would be great if my purchase of OF iPad 2.0 got me a discount/package deal on OF 2.0 Desktop. Not sure if I feel that I should be able to combine my OF 1.0 licenses as an additional discount along with the OF 2.0 iPad discount

Those are some thoughts to add to the discussion. I'm pretty reasonable, but my feelings won't be hurt if someone calls me an entitled brat. I mainly am throwing thoughts out for discussion. I'm a hardware designer and I believe in paying people for good tools.

Oh and I think you probably need to call OF 2.0 iPad/iPhone universal app something like "OF Mobile" cause typing "iPhone/iPad universal "is a pain. :-)

Brandon

Last edited by blewis; 2010-04-08 at 06:38 AM..
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tedhogan View Post
These debates make me laugh. Thanks for the info Omni. I'm downloading Things.
That makes two of us. I just made the switch, I now have Things for my Mac, iPhone and iPad, Bye Omni. Maybe when you get OmniFocus for the iPad I'll give it a look.
 
Well, Apple has changed their app policies a lot since the beginning. Now there are in-app sales. Maybe eventually they'll add the capability to upgrade your app at the upgrade price instead of having to create a new separate app.

The PCalc code does not appear to be unique. I don't think the PCalc creator has found a way to tie the discount to individuals since Apple doesn't release that kind of information.

MarketCircle has found a roundabout way of going about it. They offer Daylite Touch as a free app but to tie it to your calendar/contact database, you have to buy one license for every device. It supposedly authorizes one device (iPhone, iPod touch, or iPad) for each license. Then you pay $50/year for the authorization license.

Or at least that's my understanding of Daylite Touch.
 
[I posted this as its own thread, but it was 'born' here, so here we go... and @tedhogan: yes, these debates make me laugh too... Maybe this will be my last contribution to a debate on these forums - takes up so much time, PLUS I just tried out The Hit List! WOW If they only had an iPhone app...]

Omnifocus 2.0 for Mac or bust!

The iPad launch really seems to have shaken up the marketplace. Good software developers are hard to come by and hiring more manpower is expensive. Resource allocation is key. Tradeoffs have to be made, but the right ones!

If you dissect the competitive environment and analyse the situation, you can see where Omnigroup should place its focus. The main key is: listen to your customers. After all, retaining existing customers is, in Marketing circles, the highest priority to be sustainable in the future. And acquiring new ones is costly.

Omni's flagship product seems to be Omnifocus (correct me if I'm wrong, but it is positioned so on the beautifully redesigned website). With the launch of the iPhone App many people (including myself) bought the Mac and iPhone app for efficient organisation and mobility. The amount of apps sold because of mass iPhone AND iPod touch sales were presumably an amazing cash cow for Omnigroup.

Along comes Things... The German based company recognized the high demand and saw room for improvement and went out there to compete. The greatest shortcoming of Omnifocus they saw was the steep learning curve and the fairly unspectacular design, as well as a slowly evolved infrastructure based on Outliners and Kinked (?!) – a bit like Microsoft’s OS evolution - if you ask me – still being backward compatible to DOS. Most Mac users are design conscious and appreciate simplicity, so making an optically appealing, simple to-do-list software with tagging would be enough for Things to get an initial foothold in the market. Underlined by an Apple design award their strategic entry into the marketplace was a full success. The two products now go head to head for dominance in the marketplace.

These two value propositions opposing each other gave consumers a choice, however a poor one. Things looks good, is easy to learn and has great flexibility with tagging. However, for anyone with more than a handful of tasks, you would soon reach your limits. Omnifocus would be the only real alternative, due to simple limitations in the Things for Mac software such as the inability to make ‘child & parent’ tasks. Also the lack of wireless sync on iPhone Things and no multiple tag selection as well as Omnifocus for iPhone’s innovative location aware services and of course the brilliant Perspectives. Last but not least, OF managed to acquire a more sophisticated image by partnering with the David Allen Company and getting Merlin Mann on board, which I fully endorse.

Nevertheless, the Omni forums started to get filled with endless discussions about frustrating shortcomings including priorities, putting items on hold, multiple contexts – mainly features that were given with Things’ new tagging infrastructure. And the management of these forum complaints required time. Time that could have been spent elsewhere actually getting useful things done.

Omni’s light on the horizon were the subtle hints by both Omni employees as well as loyal forum visitors like whpalmer and the likes (you ought to pay them for their loyal duties by the way if you don’t already) that Omnifocus 2.0 would cover all these missing and desired features. 'Early 2010' were the vague promises – and I understand that the future is uncertain, but still no sign of it…

Then came the iPad… Yes, I am a believer in tablet devices changing the face of mobile computing. And yes, Omni needs to be a part of it. But the question is, when and how?

Things, in many ways has it easy. They are focused. They only have one family of products to take care of. And with the iPad they are starting to up their game. Their app and ad is amazing and beyond that they are continuously upgrading their Mac and iPhone app. Mobile synchronization is on the horizon! In the meantime Omnigroup had to rally their efforts to keep all their customers of all their product groups satisfied. You have the professional graphers whose ‘livelihoods’ depend on your software… Yes. But the all-encompassing GTD system dictates many lives too. And what does Omnigroup’s livelihood depend on?

To the average user Omnifocus on the iPad does not add that much value. It is mobile just like an iPhone/iTouch and the critical masses will not need another mobile device. Most people will enter this new computing environment when Apple adds the features that still deter the critical masses (i.e. camera, multitasking, maybe flash). Omni doesn’t need the first mover advantage in this field with their GTD app. So in the short term, a doubled pixel Omnifocus iPhone app is more than enough for the iPad.

To fend off Things’ threat, Omni has to fight back – soon. I believe that if the Omnifocus 2.0 for Mac with a rewritten underlying infrastructure (like Apple always does it with their OSes) and the accompanying features aren’t made highest priority soon, Things will be able to catch up with their missing feature sets and there will be little place for Omnifocus out there at 40,000ft. Yes, you’ll still have your ‘loyals’, but your cashcow will have turned into a dog. And beware, Things just hired Bartek, the Polish software developer, who ran iGTD2 in his own SPARE time!

Pricing seems to be a great issue for customers in the forums now. On both Things' and Omnigroups forums people are calling for group product discounts for all 3 Apps. But until Apple extends its payment infrastructure (and this can take a while), this will be difficult to implement for both. This is not going to sway a consumer in either direction, and once Apple updates its payment policies there is no competitive edge to be gained here. Don't worry about it!

Let me be clear: In this battle I’m with Omni. I am a loyal follower. But my first place is as a consumer. If Things continue with their aggressive advancement strategy and Omnifocus for Mac lets me hanging for too long, they may convince me to switch down the line, unless Omni can up their game sufficiently. After all, as a consumer it costs me to switch – not only in monetary terms, but also a lot of time will be needed to import all the tasks and understand the subtle workings of Things. Like me and presumably many opportunistic customers out there, you still have my attention. Turn us into loyal customers by adding these features. We are after all the largest part of your customer base. Please just don’t make the same mistake as Microsoft did and exceed the number of markets you can feasibly compete in.

This is the tipping point…

Last edited by Robbie1702; 2010-04-07 at 01:07 PM..
 
I just had to break down and buy Things, and I'm mad about it. I couldn't go any longer without quasi-functional task management, but I'm five minutes in, and Things is already disappointing me. It's like a task management with a condom. Please hurry, Omni. My iPad just isn't living up to it's potential without you. :)
 
I have both Things and Omnifocus. On both the iPhone and the Mac. IPad arrived over the weekend. After three days, I would be totally comfortable giving up my notebook and paper, if I had a decent organizational tool. Things is elegant but too simplistic. Omnifocus iPad would be the answer, if it were available.

Omnifocus for the Mac would be nice, but I am doing less and less on the MBP, and spending more time on the iPad. Especially during the day when I am on the road or moving from meeting to meeting.

So let me be clear, for my evolving use of the iPad, Omnifocus on the iPad is critical. Deliver that and I can leave Things behind on all three platforms!
 
 




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