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I second Santra's appraisal of Ecco Pro as the best ever. And of OmniOutliner as the best Mac outliner. Ecco's ability to let you see your information in different ways is not unlike OmniFocus, but was even more powerful.

OO could go a long way if only it would let us filter by multiple criteria. Shouldn't be that hard to implement.
Originally Posted by wpitman View Post

But now I must be honest and say that I am VERY disappointed in Omni because nothing has happened yet for OO and the iPhone. OO for the iPhone appears to be nothing more than a vapor-app. The iPad has become the apple of your eye even though it has a far, far fewer customer base than the iPhone.

By asking the original question and getting an overwhelmingly positive response from long-time users, Omni encouraged and set the expectation of something to come...and so we waited and waited and waited. But by NOT fulfilling the very expectations that you encouraged, you damaged your own reputation (which to this point has been very positive for me) and proven yourselves to be untrustworthy.
I think you need to go read the original post again, and this time read what it actually says instead of what you want it to say! No promise was made to ever deliver OmniOutliner for iPhone. We were asked for input on what features would be needed to make it useful, should it be developed. I personally would love OmniOutliner on my iPod or iPad, even just a minimal version that would let me view documents and check off lists, and have even contemplated investing the effort to write my own application to do so, so I think I can safely be considered an interested party. As much as I would like to see such an app, I don't feel at all that Omni has been stringing me along or promising something they have no plans to deliver, and if you honestly feel they have done so, I would like to know where they did so, so that I can ask them why they haven't delivered yet!
Disclaimer ;-) Resources are always limited - and with so many great Software products and a Hardware playground that grows at Apple's pace, it's sure a difficult task to prioritize. From the forum discussions it is obvious that Omni invests a lot of careful considerations behind all this. (Most of which users like I can't even imagine. I'm not even a programmer - I'm only a product manager in an all different industry.)


That new Apple toy thing is sure great. But although we are all thrilled with the iPad, the vast majority of us still use those good old Macs and iPhones and most likely the rough ratio will remain for a while still.

Hence I'd expect Omni's resource priority to be with Mac/iPhone/iPod. At least to value your installed base (OO sure being one of your best sellers). And at least for basic functionality.

Here's my view of "basic":

1 (multiple columns): NOT in a 1.o Version
2 (formatting): NOT in a 1.o Version
3 (attachments): NOT in a 1.o Version

4 (editing): YES - but only for the level of information it contains (see 1-3)
5 (syncing): YES.

I understand that OO (Mac) 4.o is key to any kind of syncing - so this is clearly where I would like to hear about and see progress first.

In summary I'd suggest to hand out an OO (iPhone) Alpha with the above minimal feature set in parallel to your OO 4.o development as soon as the progress there allows for something that meets Omni's Alpha standards.

Keep up the good work, friends. Please just don't get all distracted by that new shiny, touchy plaything. It's sure the future for some of us (myself included at some point in time, I guess). But there's sheer needs for the present from the rest of us as well. "Present" meaning since the iPhone has been launched...

Cheers, Chris
As an iPad owner for nearly two months at this point, and a heavy user of OmniFocus on the iPod for more than a year, my take on the right course of action is a bit different, I'm afraid. I very much would like the ability to simply view existing OO files on my iPod or iPad, but by comparison to what an iPad version of OO should be like (based on my experience with OmniGraffle on the iPad), an iPhone version that attempts to do much more than be a simple text viewer is going to be nearly as frustrating as an iPhone version of OmniGraffle, and will divert resources away from the OO projects which will bring in substantial revenue, namely OO 4.0 for the desktop and the iPad. I would probably still buy a scaled down OO for iPod/iPhone, even with a real iPad app already in hand, but I think it would be a mistake to not do the iPad app first. The current customers who haven't found anything else yet are still likely to be there, but allowing all-new iPad customers to be snatched up by some other vendor means losing not only the OO iPad app sale, but likely any sale of other Omni products.
my wishes for a first version of OO for iPhone:

1) no

2) the simple outline function is the most important, bold would be great

3) maybe not for the first version, but necessary later

4) editable is very very important for me. Much more than formattings and attachments

5) my idea is similar to the OmniFocus synchronization of saving it on the iDisk. Instead of one file with everything inside, a folder with all documents so that each document can be used independently (e. g. to take a file and send it by mail to anybody else) but inside OO to get a list of all documents inside the folder to have it in one place and open it simple and fast.

Last edited by tobe; 2010-06-22 at 01:12 PM..
I've owned OmniFocus for a few months, and have been playing the OmniOutliner for about a week (trial version). As an iPhone user, I find the ability to have access to certain applications on both the Mac and iPhone to be indispensable, and OmniOutliner is one such application. In other words, if I don't feel confident that I will have OO for the iPhone, I would end up using something else (I found myself making outlines within OmniFocus...).

I absolutely do not expect the Mac and iPhone functionality to be the same (it is not the same with OF, and it's perfectly fine). Especially with the iPhone limited screen real estate, I expect any kind of text editing to be as simple (and useable) as possible.

So, all I would expect from an iPhone version of OO would be:

1. View files I create on the Mac
2. Basic editing - changing text, adding removing columns
3. Basic file creation - adding and removing columns, selecting column types (things like colors and font format change is not necessary)
4. Ability to sync with the files I create on the Mac.
Currently have Omnifocus for Mac and Iphone, also Omnioutliner 3...
I've been using Omnifocus on the iphone as my outliner, because it can sync... :)
A copy paste from omnifocus (Mac) to outliner would do for now as well. Pretty pleeease.

1) nice but not essential.

2) no.

3) no.

4) no. Full editing please.

5) over wi-fi, like docs togo.

Last edited by jrw2k; 2010-06-30 at 06:07 AM..
I'm sure OO for iPhone would outsell OO iPad. I love the iPad, but I don't carry it everywhere with me like I do my iPhone. Same reason I have OF for iPhone but not iPad.
I was the first to post to this thread about my desire and NEED for OO for the iPhone. I completely understand the need of Omni may not be the same as my need AND I have been a long time supporter of Omni -- buying and using every product available. In the past I've found Omni to be a quality company with a quick turnaround time in software development. But after 21 months of teasing us with OO for the iPhone, I now consider this product as vaporware. I have on several occasions emailed my desire for OO in addition to this forum and not once has Omni replied -- even to say they can't comment. Sad to say, but I doubt that OO for the iPhone will ever see the light of day and even if it does, Omni has lost the competitive advantage in the outliner software as others have quickly filled the gap. Most of the high end users have already committed to other software (certainly not as good as OO for the Mac) and now it may be too late to transfer back to our beloved OO. R.I.P. OO for iPhone :(
Originally Posted by wpitman View Post
But after 21 months of teasing us with OO for the iPhone, I now consider this product as vaporware.
What product? I haven't seen anyone from Omni *ever* say that they are doing OO for the iPhone, or even that they are definitely going to do it in the future. Look at Derek's words in the opening post in this thread:

Originally Posted by DerekM
We have been strongly considering developing OmniOutliner for the iPhone and we may very well do so in the future.
They considered it when they started developing for the iPhone (they would have been fools not to), and as best I can tell, decided that their efforts were better spent on OO4 due to the limitations of the small screen. When the iPad came along, they suddenly had a platform not nearly so limiting, and they decided that OO for the iPad was something worth doing (in addition to OO4) and are doing so. OO for the iPhone would be yet another UX design, and Ken posted on the blog the other day that that's the hard part, and they don't have any plans to do OO for iPhone before all the promised iPad applications have shipped (one of which they haven't really started), at which point they may consider it. You can read his post (and comments) here:

I'm no marketing expert, but the usual drill with vaporware marketing seems to be to repeatedly say "we're building X, it's going to be great, should be here real soon", not to repeatedly say "we're too busy with Y and Z to do that now, but maybe later when we are done with Y and Z..." Maybe Omni just doesn't understand how to do vaporware properly :-)

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