[vocaro]

There must be over a dozen Mac apps that claim to be GTD-centric, and I've tried at least half of them. This morning it struck me that despite all the bells and whistles I've seen in these apps, I've yet to encounter a single one that implements David Allen's 43 folders concept (a.k.a. tickler file).

With all the folder metaphors we see on today's desktops, I'd have thought that the simple 43 folders concept could be very naturally and elegantly implemented in software. Having 43 folders in software would also alleviate the only complaint I've seen people make about having to maintain so many folders: too much paper shuffling.

Has anyone ever seen such a feature in a GTD app? And does anyone know whether OmniFocus will have such a feature?

[SpiralOcean]

The concept of having 43 folders is not about having folders... it's about mailing yourself something in the future. In the book, Allen mentions that some people use a calendar for the folders. The calendar, or a with the task management software, a due date or appearing date can often function as the 43 folders.

The main principle for the 43 folders is how do you deal with physical items that you want to be reminded of in the future.

In the electronic world, I don't get that many emails of something that I need to look at in the future that I can't just add to my task management software to be reminded of in the future. It's the beauty of digital.

If you want a tickler file for mac mail:
http://www.hawkwings.net/2005/12/01/...-tickler-file/

[SpiralOcean]

I nice feature to have would be for OmniFocus to link to files/emails on my computer. Then I could schedule to look at a certain file on a certain day. The task comes up, click on a link, the file comes up...

[vocaro]

Originally Posted by SpiralOcean

The concept of having 43 folders is not about having folders... it's about mailing yourself something in the future.

I understand what it's about. I just haven't seen any faithful implementations of the concept in GTD software.

Originally Posted by SpiralOcean

The calendar, or a with the task management software, a due date or appearing date can often function as the 43 folders.

Using a calendar for 43 folders breaks the GTD philosophy. David Allen is very specific that calendars shouldn't be used for reminders, only for "hard" events like a meeting schedule. The point of 43 folders is to keep your calendar clean and keep those "ticklers" out of sight until you can actually act on them.

As for a due date in GTD software, there are two problems with this. First, lots of GTD software doesn't allow you to attach files to an action or event, so you can't mail yourself something, you can only mail yourself short reminders. So it's not the same thing as having 43 folders of "physical" ticklers.

And second, even if you can attach a file to a reminder and give it a "tickle" date, the GTD software I've seen doesn't do a good job of hiding that reminder until it's time to act on it. Having actual 43 folders does this better because you can pull out only today's folder and leave the others in a drawer, out of sight.

[SpiralOcean]

Originally Posted by vocaro

Using a calendar for 43 folders breaks the GTD philosophy. David Allen is very specific that calendars shouldn't be used for reminders, only for "hard" events like a meeting schedule. The point of 43 folders is to keep your calendar clean and keep those "ticklers" out of sight until you can actually act on them.

refresher...

page 173
"One elegant way to manage nonactionable items that may need an action in the future is the "tickler" file. A three-dimensional version of a CALENDAR, it allows you to hold PHYSICAL reminders of things that you want to see or remember--not now, but in the future.
...
Essentially the tickler is a simple file-folder system that allows you to distribute paper and other physical reminders in such a way that whatever you want to see on a particular date in the future "automatically" shows up that day in your in-basket"
----------------------

page 171
"Your calendar can be a very handy place to park reminders of things you MIGHT want to consider doing in the future. Most of the people I've coached were not nearly as comfortable with their calendars as they could have been; otherwise they probably would have found many more things to put in there.
...
If you have a project that you don't really need to think about now but that deserves a flag at some point in the future, you can pick an appropriate date and put a reminder about the project in your calendar for that day.
...
...when the day arrives, you see the reminder and insert the item as an active project on your "Projects" list.


The tickler file is for physical items.
I understand your point about the metaphor, and it can be nice to have a folder to drop an email into that you need to be reminded of at a certain date. And there are no electronic task management systems that use an inbox metaphor to place tasks into.

Also, when David Allen wrote the book, computers were at a different technological place. Which is why he stayed away from specific device examples. This is unfortunate, and the largest thing I see lacking in the book... some real world examples.

If the system you are using is water tight, you should be able to put a reminder into it and have it pop up in your electronic inbox that you need to respond to this email.

The main problem with electronic task management is the task is separate from the email or file. So I see the task or calendar reminder, I have to go find the email to respond to, or the file I need to update and send.

Thus... if there was a link to the email or file inside the task, the task reminds me, I click on the link, and do the action.

[BwanaZulia]

43 Folders is one of the few things that I have not been able to figure out how to do on the Mac, electronically. Sure, I could create folders on my desktop, or something like that but like Spiral is saying, it should be VERY easy to drop ideas into month, day or even year buckets and have those pop up or "move to the front" when you hit that month.

BZ

[yucca]

For those of you who use DEVONthink with one of the GTD templates, you already have this functionality. If you get the pro office version (DTPO), you recycle your 43 folders, and your paper filing system turns into an archive (stuff where orginal paperwork is required for legal or sentimental purposes). Also, your stuff in your DTPO 43 folders is fully searchable and integrated with your entire reference system.

However, DTPO does not offer the functionality to efficiently process stuff and maintain lists. It is superb as a reference system, but that is it. I copy stuff from my electronic 43 folders (usually just a subject heading) into kGTD when they need to be scheduled or when they become NAs.

DTPO has some scripts that automate getting stuff into DTPO, and similar scripts could be used to feed stuff into OF. It would be cool if I could then get an attachment in OF into DTPO when I close the project or task. Of course, I am assuming that Omni doesn't want to add electronic reference system functionality to OF! ;)

[tacartwright]

Originally Posted by vocaro

With all the folder metaphors we see on today's desktops, I'd have thought that the simple 43 folders concept could be very naturally and elegantly implemented in software.

I totally agree. I’ve implemented a simple system in kGTD, but it still requires a fair amount of manual maintenance.

What I want is a system that just dumps items from the 43 folders into my Inbox, just as described in the GTD book. Except I want it to be smart enough to do this for every day and month folder that has come due since the last time I used the application. This is simple stuff, easy for a program to do.

Omni, what sayest thou?

— Tim

[Ken Case]

Does this differ from setting an item's start date to some point in the future?

[vocaro]

Originally Posted by Ken Case

Does this differ from setting an item's start date to some point in the future?

It's not quite the same thing. Yes, it's an approximation, especially if the software allows files to be attached to an item. But what I'd expect to find in a "true" GTD app is actual 43 folders: Somewhere in the user interface, there'd be 43 folders that actually hold my tickler files. I could click around the folders to see their contents, but by default the app would just show the ticklers for the current day, keeping the others out of the way until I need them.

One of the nice things about this approach is that there are folders corresponding to the months of the year. For example, I might download a Disneyland brochure and think, "Maybe I should go there this summer," not knowing the exact date I want to go. Well, with the item approach, I'd have to create the item, choose a specific date, and type up a description. But with 43 folders, I could just drag-and-drop the PDF into July's folder! Very simple.

Another nice benefit is that if there are actual folders in the interface, I can change the tickler date just by dragging a file and dropping it into a different folder. That seems very Mac-like and GTDish to me.

Anyway, I'm surprised no GTD app has implemented something like that, given that 43 folders is a basic tenet of David Allen's approach.