[endoftheQ]

Hi Brian

I've just been reading the This App is K_R_A_P thread posted by smalltownboy. I tried to help him previously (I failed) but I'd really like to comment on his post. However, if you feel that I'm fanning the flames, then please remove this.

Brian, I applaud your stance in not deleting his thread and offering him a refund. I hope he accepts it, which should make it well and truly clear that the Omni Group is not trying to rip off anyone.

However, my reason for posting this is that I would like to take issue with other Members' responses to his post.

If I stand in smalltownboy's shoes, I 'get' his perception of being 'ripped off'. He bought the OmniFocus App, a premium-priced product (for the App store anyway), recorded audio and took photographs and then got told the only way he could use them was if he now bought the desktop program. Oh, and he had to buy a Mac too, because he 'only' had a PC. If that had happened to me, under the same circumstances, I would certainly feel more than a little aggrieved.

OK, he then found another App that better met his needs and decided to vent his anger about his issues regarding OmniFocus on this forum. I believe, in my hopelessly naive idealistic world, Members would focus on the issues he raised, not the individual posting them.

It has been my experience (perhaps I'm overly sensitive!) that if I make any kind of critical or negative comment on this board, I receive replies attacking me on a personal level. If Members re-read their posts to smalltownboy, it appears to come across that unless you are educated to degree level or beyond you shouldn't be allowed access to Omni's forums.

Like smalltownboy, I've had a replies to my threads commenting that I lack basic punctuation (ouch!) so that the Member responding couldn't be bothered to help me with my problem but felt that it was vitally important to criticise that I had a missed out a comma somewhere. I've been told, paraphrasing, to "chill out", "get lost" and that I'm "always dissatisfied". I guess I'm fortunate in having broad shoulders and find these pot-calling-kettle-black responses amusing. However, I think about new users like smalltownboy with with little or no experience of Omni's products and I would hate them to feel intimidated about posting here because they don't have perfect prose. I genuinely feel I have a responsibility to try to help Members posting on this board, even with my hopelessly limited technical knowledge, without indulging my unwarranted sense of literary superiority. I am always deeply impressed by Members who take the time and trouble to help me out or comment constructively on, what they probably perceive as, my self-indulgent rants.

OK, I guess it's time to put my money where my mouth is. If you're reading this smalltownboy, and your photos and audio are still 'stuck' in OmniFocus, then send me a private message. I'll clear out my projects and let you sync to my desktop. I'll then email the pics and recordings back to you. If any other Member reading this has a better solution, please post a response, I will be more than happy to step aside.

[gopi]

I apparently didn't read his ranting carefully enough. He started out with enough false claims combined with terrible spelling and grammar that I had difficulty figuring out the real meat of his complaint.

I can definitely understand that those would be some very, very irritating discoveries to make. I started with OF on the Mac, and I have never actually used (beyond a quick test) the photo and audio attachment features. It had never occurred to me to expect OF/iPhone to email attachments.

OF/iPhone is in a difficult position, because it is an app that can exist on its own. In fact, it's quite possible that people would find it more useful than many alternatives that way. But it really is designed with synced usage in mind.

[JohnJ80]

Rudeness, Insults (i.e. "U Stupid or what") and punctuation and spelling so bad that it is almost unreadable complete with *wildly* inaccurate statements deserve to be called out for what they are.

That said, I think Omni handled it very well. Besides that, it's got to be a competitive advantage to send customers like that to your competition and let them deal with them while you move on to more productive things. ;)

The offer to get his data out for him is very nice (good luck with that).

J.

[Brian]

I'm very proud of our forums. Far more civil than most. High signal to noise ratio. An amazing amount of help gets dished out here. I'm really grateful for all those things and would hate to see any of that change. I particularly fear discouraging the generosity and kindness that I see so much of here. *

The forums aren't perfect, though. No concerns with your post, EndoftheQ; you raise valid points. To be honest, you can find similar comments elsewhere on the net about our forums. It's something I've been thinking about for a while, trying to figure out how to handle. I have a forum-management book on my to-read pile, in case it has any useful ideas.

I have no qualms holding myself and the support ninjas to a standard of conduct, because we're employees. There are a lot of folks here that aren't, though. Maybe responses sometimes get a little snarkier than I'd let an employee send, but who am I to tell visitors what to do unless it's absolutely necessary? I don't want to discourage participation.

Except it's my job to make the forums as inclusive as possible, just like it's my job to fix problems before they result in unhappy posts like yesterday morning's. While STB did make an inflammatory post, the underlying issue was a legitimate concern that didn't get handled.

Essentially, I cleaned up a mess that Omni could have prevented; I don't regard that as success, but we'll do better in the future.

In the meantime, please help us out by pointing folks with unsolved problems at our support addresses and if you do see a post you feel is unreasonable, please don't respond in kind. PM me and I'll figure out what to do about it.

Great export idea, by the way; wish I'd come up with it. STB could also use our sync server to get his database off the phone, then unzip the transaction files to get at his attachments. I'll talk to a coworker and see if we can automate that process for folks in the account interface, but in the meantime, we can do it manually for people.

Originally Posted by endoftheQ

If Members re-read their posts to smalltownboy, it appears to come across that unless you are educated to degree level or beyond you shouldn't be allowed access to Omni's forums.

I wonder if that's true ?

My impression, on re-reading those posts, is not that the real concern was about the particular dialect or spelling system that was being used. There are plenty of posts on this forum that do use second-language (or nth-language) English grammar and spellings but don't provoke uncooperative responses ...

Not much help was given at first, but was there actually any request for help ?

I think the problem was really that the posts appeared to be giving high priority to doing damage, and low priority to everything else, including the truth. The forum was simply declining to accept or encourage that approach ...

Had any kind of solution or clarification been sought (in that very same style of spelling and grammar) would it have been ignored or mocked ? Would there have been any references to spelling at all ? I personally don't think so ...

Understanding the motivation and history of aggression or destruction is certainly very helpful, but its value can be overstated - there are moments when the first priority is simply to draw a line. Understanding can come afterwards ...

[endoftheQ]

smalltownboy's original threads and responses were, in my humble opinion, both literate and polite.

Originally Posted by smalltownboy

i just got omnifocus and I want to get stuff out of actions. I scanned youre board and it seems difficult. Any quick ways? :confused:

Originally Posted by smalltownboy

Sori I stored lots of audio and taken pics how do I get to save them not delet e them.

Originally Posted by smalltownboy

thanxs. looked in he manual and on the board but I have a pc running windows 7 and the answers seem to me be apple only. i want to get the the pics and audio out. i tried to find a a wifi answer but cant.

Originally Posted by smalltownboy

thanks for help gents. I did screenshotting but image is crap. Ive got lots of jammed pics/audio in omni so info on webdav servers if n e one can tell me how to do this be great. I got omni thinking $$$$$$price=more features. Ill look at task managers above.

I'm guessing that because I was aware of these posts, my take on smalltownboy's later K_R_A_P post was markedly different to other Members who hadn't had the opportunity to read them.

Taking a look at his post that caused the furore:

Originally Posted by smalltownboy

Omni is rubbish app+rip off £££££. NO export / NO tags / NO cNp / NO Sync / NO email / NO tweets / NO Uk search / NO share / all the ***** reviews are m8s of dev. I checkd 2do lite for free n paid for full. its' 100x better n a LOT less cash. check it out n see what you dont get with omnis rip off app.

OK, from my non-existent technical perspective, I'll try to address his issues:

No export / if from within the App that is a fact.
No tags / I think tags are the same as contexts? Happy to be told I'm wrong!
No CNP / Copy and Paste? In regard to pictures and audio that's also a fact.
No sync / not completely true, but available only with MobileMe and a Mac.
No email / that's a fact.
No tweets / another fact.
No UK search / if I understand, it's the same as my Navigon SatNav, only the first part of a UK postcode is recognised.
No share / I think this means no social networking. If so, also a fact.

Any long-term Omni user would know that the five star reviews of OmniFocus are not 'friends of the developer' but anyone who uses the App Store on a regular basis will recognise that 'shilling' happens, and happens a lot. smalltownboy was wrong in this assumption, but understandably wrong.

Let me hold my hand up. I probably wound up smalltownboy with some of my responses, an example of which, in regard to getting audio out of the App, was:

Originally Posted by endoftheQ

The only way I know of is to borrow another iPhone, hit Voice Memo on that, play the audio stored in OmniFocus and hold them top-to-tail

and again

Originally Posted by endoftheQ

I'm pretty sure you'll understand that I originally got the idea from a comedy sketch!

whpalmer4 (whom I have the utmost respect for) may have added some fuel to the fire (unintentionally) by adding:

Originally Posted by whpalmer4

Yes, there is no Twitter support. However, for the 3 people worldwide who get their assignments from or report their work progress to the boss via Twitter, the app does support standard iOS copy/paste functionality, allowing use of the Twitter client of one's own choice and not bloating the app for everyone else.

OK, whpalmer4, I'm one of those three! I don't have any problem being labelled 'a boring old fart' with no interest in social networking because unless there's anyone else on this board that can program in Fortran, Cobal and Pascal then I'm the resident dinosaur! However, I do have a client who insists on "tweet completed". OmniFocus not supporting Twitter is really not an issue for me but I have to accept that, for many individuals younger than myself, Twitter, FaceBook et al, is the be-all-and-end-all of life!

In response to Members replies to my post:

gopi: Thank you for taking, what I consider, a balanced point of view, especially as I'm guessing you hadn't read smalltownboy's previous threads. I'm afraid that I no longer recommend OmniFocus as a standalone App to iPhone-only users simply because of the lack of import/export, although I recognise that other Members disagree with me.

JohnJ80: I'm guessing you're addressing the issue from smalltownboy's 'negative' post, not from his original requests for help. I'm not trying to be holier-than-thou by offering to sync for him, just trying to ensure my karmic debt has a little more good than bad! Unless your final (bracketed) comment was meant sarcastically (only joking!).

Brian: I hope the CEO of Omni is as proud of you as you are of this forum. Your posting made me feel that my efforts to think about and post on this subject were worthwhile. Thank you.

RobTrew: As I'm a user of other boards, which often have hideously inflammatory comments designed to provoke, I have a lot of sympathy with your position. I'm again guessing that you didn't have a chance to read smalltownboy's original posts.

I wanted this thread to be about a plea for tolerance. Why? Because as a long term Omni user, I object to (only my perception!) other Member's condescension, name calling and racist remarks to those posting on this forum.

Before you think I'm trying to be whiter than white (as Mae West once said: I was snow, but drifted!), I once stood up in a meeting and trashed a remote co-worker, who regularly came up with great ideas and concepts. I laughed about her inability to write coherently and her total lack of written communication skills. In the pin-drop silence, a colleague asked me whether I knew that she was severely disabled. There wasn't a small enough rock on this planet that I wouldn't have tried to hide under.

[hypotyposis]

EndoftheQ,

I guess I read his postings differently: the first post was essentially an insulting one (this app is ... Doesn't sound like a request for help to me), and the direct reference, in his first post, to a competing (?) app sounded to me like it was either a not-very-subtle attempt at publicity from a rival company or something not worth my time in any case.

I objected to the rudeness by asking for the post to be "kicked", and because I understand Brian's position and thought that if there was a consensus from users, this would justify the removal of the thread that Brian so gracefully didn't want to delete of his own accord.

Now, I hadn't looked at some of the follow-up posts on this thread... But I'm personally offended by the direct attack on whpalmer, whose first response was rather contained, and whose subsequent ones seem to be as helpful as in his ordinary fashion.

Finally, assuming STB is a "real" user with legitimate complaints... It still seems a bit strange to me that someone would a) assume that "more $$$ = more features" and assume that those features that had to be present would be exactly those this particular user needed without any further research.

While some of those concerns might have to be addressed by a more "thorough" search (I.e. Visiting the developer's website before buying the app, oh dreadful effort!), it seems to me that a lot of the social media/tagging stuff (or absence thereof) looks pretty clearly absent from the app description on the App Store, without even bothering to look at the reviews...: "Keep track of tasks by project, place, person, or date" (all true, no mention of other "tags"); "Attachements: Attach pictures, audio, or other reference documents to your task notes, and synchronize them with other copies of OmniFocus" (my emphasis); "For more information...".
And there's an email and phone number for "feedback and questions."

Originally Posted by endoftheQ

smalltownboy's original threads and responses were, in my humble opinion, both literate and polite.









I'm guessing that because I was aware of these posts, my take on smalltownboy's later K_R_A_P post was markedly different to other Members who hadn't had the opportunity to read them.

Taking a look at his post that caused the furore:



OK, from my non-existent technical perspective, I'll try to address his issues:

No export / if from within the App that is a fact.
No tags / I think tags are the same as contexts? Happy to be told I'm wrong!
No CNP / Copy and Paste? In regard to pictures and audio that's also a fact.
No sync / not completely true, but available only with MobileMe and a Mac.
No email / that's a fact.
No tweets / another fact.
No UK search / if I understand, it's the same as my Navigon SatNav, only the first part of a UK postcode is recognised.
No share / I think this means no social networking. If so, also a fact.

Any long-term Omni user would know that the five star reviews of OmniFocus are not 'friends of the developer' but anyone who uses the App Store on a regular basis will recognise that 'shilling' happens, and happens a lot. smalltownboy was wrong in this assumption, but understandably wrong.

Let me hold my hand up. I probably wound up smalltownboy with some of my responses, an example of which, in regard to getting audio out of the App, was:



and again



whpalmer4 (whom I have the utmost respect for) may have added some fuel to the fire (unintentionally) by adding:



OK, whpalmer4, I'm one of those three! I don't have any problem being labelled 'a boring old fart' with no interest in social networking because unless there's anyone else on this board that can program in Fortran, Cobal and Pascal then I'm the resident dinosaur! However, I do have a client who insists on "tweet completed". OmniFocus not supporting Twitter is really not an issue for me but I have to accept that, for many individuals younger than myself, Twitter, FaceBook et al, is the be-all-and-end-all of life!

In response to Members replies to my post:

gopi: Thank you for taking, what I consider, a balanced point of view, especially as I'm guessing you hadn't read smalltownboy's previous threads. I'm afraid that I no longer recommend OmniFocus as a standalone App to iPhone-only users simply because of the lack of import/export, although I recognise that other Members disagree with me.

JohnJ80: I'm guessing you're addressing the issue from smalltownboy's 'negative' post, not from his original requests for help. I'm not trying to be holier-than-thou by offering to sync for him, just trying to ensure my karmic debt has a little more good than bad! Unless your final (bracketed) comment was meant sarcastically (only joking!).

Brian: I hope the CEO of Omni is as proud of you as you are of this forum. Your posting made me feel that my efforts to think about and post on this subject were worthwhile. Thank you.

RobTrew: As I'm a user of other boards, which often have hideously inflammatory comments designed to provoke, I have a lot of sympathy with your position. I'm again guessing that you didn't have a chance to read smalltownboy's original posts.

I wanted this thread to be about a plea for tolerance. Why? Because as a long term Omni user, I object to (only my perception!) other Member's condescension, name calling and racist remarks to those posting on this forum.

Before you think I'm trying to be whiter than white (as Mae West once said: I was snow, but drifted!), I once stood up in a meeting and trashed a remote co-worker, who regularly came up with great ideas and concepts. I laughed about her inability to write coherently and her total lack of written communication skills. In the pin-drop silence, a colleague asked me whether I knew that she was severely disabled. There wasn't a small enough rock on this planet that I wouldn't have tried to hide under.

[endoftheQ]

Originally Posted by hypotyposis

EndoftheQ,

I guess I read his postings differently: the first post was essentially an insulting one (this app is ... Doesn't sound like a request for help to me), and the direct reference, in his first post, to a competing (?) app sounded to me like it was either a not-very-subtle attempt at publicity from a rival company or something not worth my time in any case.

I agree, hypotyposis. If you didn't have a chance to peruse smalltimeboy's previous 'polite' requests for help, then his later posts, would undoubtedly appear to the users on this board, insulting or a deliberate attempt to promote a rival product.

Originally Posted by hypotyposis

While some of those concerns might have to be addressed by a more "thorough" search (I.e. Visiting the developer's website before buying the app, oh dreadful effort!)

Again, I appreciate what you're saying, all of us should research an App before buying it. However, the honest truth is, I don't! I read the developer's blurb and check a few reviews. I've certainly come unstuck a few times. My fury at Navigon for selling me a SatNav that didn't recognise full UK postcodes knew no bounds! Until the release-before-last, OmniFocus showed in its' screen shots on the App Store that you could Pick Photo, this only applied to the iPod Touch and I was really annoyed about this, as I have an iPhone. I ranted aggressively about this on the board and noticed that instead of attacking my issue, I got attacked on personal level. I wasn't bothered because I'm thick-skinned! However, I did feel a lot of anger about the name calling, racist remarks, etc. aimed at smalltownboy.

If there is anyone on this board that thinks whpalmer4's generous help, intuition, advice, knowledge etc. isn't precious, I'll be the first up with a drawn sword. Taking that as a given, I'm sure that whpalmer4 doesn't need me to defend his position. I am truly grateful for the time and effort he has spent helping me with my problems. That doesn't mean that on occasion I haven't challenged him on a few issues, sometimes resulting in me changing my mind, sometimes not. I'm paraphrasing (again!) but if any man cannot change his mind, he's in danger of losing it!