[applecrate]

Is the data saved to my Mac when I sync and can it be synced back to my iPhone? In other words, if my iPhone crashes or OmniFocus is deleted off of my iPhone, will a restore place the app and its previously synced data back onto my iPhone?

For now I want to evaluate the iPhone app before committing to the desktop version. But I want to know that have a way to secure my entries from my iPhone in the meantime.

[Lizard]

1) I'm pretty sure that an iTunes backup would backup your OmniFocus database, but it's not convenient for me to try that out at the moment to be sure.

2) You can download the desktop OmniFocus and use it for a trial period (14 days if I remember right) before purchasing it. Then if you set up syncing with MobileMe (or another well-behaved WebDAV server), desktop OmniFocus will create periodic backups and you won't have to worry about whether iTunes is also storing your data or not.

[PsychLik]

Originally Posted by Lizard

1) I'm pretty sure that an iTunes backup would backup your OmniFocus database, but it's not convenient for me to try that out at the moment to be sure.

Lizard, with all due respect, this is not an appropriate answer to such a serious question, especially from an Omni employee. This is what I would expect from a fellow forum user with no vested interest in customer support.

The question of whether iPhone's backup to iTunes protects OmniFocus for iPhone data is a crucial one, as it effectively determines whether the iPhone app is truly "stand-alone", as Omni Group claims that it is. As such, kindly address this in a more rigorous manner, or find someone at Omni who will.

Again, with all due respect (a lot of it, I may add), and sincere hopes that this issue can be cleared up, for all of us who use your product in good faith.

Omar Canosa, M.D.

[LawDaddy]

Easy on the Lizard, who has provided many great fixes on this forum, including the now famous Lizard Tweak for hopelessly bloated databases!

The reason the answers are a little unclear is that it appears the iTunes DOES in fact back up iPhone apps and their associated data (we all see those slowwwww backups now), however there is no way for developers to access the backups from within the sandboxes that Apple puts them in. Thus, to recover your OF data, you would have to do a full restore of the phone OS to revert to the backed up database on your desktop. OF on the phone is a stand-alone product, but I think the only way to recover iPhone app data for any iTunes app is a full nuke-and-pave restore.

What Lizard is suggesting sounds like a good work around if you have a Mac: download a trail copy of OF for your desktop and set up syncing to MobileME or a WebDAV server. Once you are synced, you can restore the db at any time by reverting to the server version of your db directly from the phone app without a full restore. Until Apple gives developers a little more latitude, that may be the best option for those with a Mac.

Otherwise, a hard restore of the phone from iTunes will place your phone back in the condition it was at the time of your last sync. The advantage of the syncing option is that you can revert to the last synced state from anywhere at any time, in case you mess up your db while out and about.

Hope this helps...

[PsychLik]

Didn't mean to blast the Lizard! I'm new to the forum, but in just a quick kicking around I can see that our reptilian compadre is a valuable member of the Omni team.

I realize Apple considers transparency a four-letter word, and that developers are hindered by this. HOWEVER, if a company is marketing a product as a stand-alone application meant to handle all of a user's mission-critical data (that IS what GTD system is for, right--empty your brain, free your mind?), then I believe that company has a duty to TEST the databases' integrity, in case of catastrophic failure.

So, a way to do this would be for OmniGroup to buy an iPhone, load it with a test OmniFocus database, sync and backup the phone to iTunes, hard-reset the phone and attempt a restore. If OmniFocus comes back clean and pristine, then **hooray!!!**: It's a stand-alone app that can be relied upon. If not, then a solution should be actively sought OR it should be clearly stated, to buyers, that the iPhone's OmniFocus database is vulnerable unless synced with the desktop app.

We rely on our GTD systems to be the home-away-from-home for all of our most valuable ideas. If there is any doubt about the reliability of the database, then our ability to trust the system evaporates, and the system fails.

Cheers,
Omar

[Lizard]

I'm filling in on the forums to help the Support Ninjas keep their heads above water. I only had my personal phone available and didn't want to sync it to my work machine, because I normally sync it to my laptop (which was at home). So I went ahead and answered the questions as best I could, hoping another forum user (such as LawDaddy kindly did) or another Omni person with more information could fill in later. As you noted, we're dealing with possible data loss if I give you a wrong answer and I can't double-check my response.

By the way, these forums are not our formal support channel. These are primarily for users to collaborate with each other. We chime in when we have the time. The best way to get our professional Support Ninjas to answer your question is to email omnifocus-iphone@omnigroup.com

[PsychLik]

Much obliged, Lizard. No hard feelings, I hope. I will bring this matter up in an email to support, and post with any useful replies. In the meantime, if anyone has had the misfortune of having to restore an OF database from an iTunes backup(i.e., doing a full restore on a crashed phone) I would love to hear how it went.
Cheers,
Omar
Omar

[LawDaddy]

Omar, I've restored both ways, once through a hard restore, and once through a reset from the server. I had to restore because I downloaded the 'sneaky-peek' iPhone 2.0 for my 1st gen iPhone, and had to manually restore to get the 'legit' OS on launch day. When you restore, the process first wipes your phone and installs the new OS. You then sync with iTunes, and everything (music, apps, etc.) is restored to the previous state, minus some local preference settings that are reset to default. All of my apps, including OF, were restored with no problems.

I'm probably not the best case for your question as 1) I have not experienced any crashes with iOF (other than it is a little slow with my 7MB db), and 2) I sync to MobileMe and I can't remember whether I had to re-sync or not. I'm sure someone at OG has tested the restore process with a stand-alone setup like yours.

An interesting question would be if your phone was damaged and you had to get a replacement, would it replicate the contents on the new phone? (I poured water on one, not recommended.)

One thing that is frustrating is that Apple is adamant on making all iPhone apps stand-alone, i.e., they should not depend on, or merely be an extension of, a desktop app. If this is the case, why don't developers have any access to the wired sync process (Ken says the wire is off limits), and why don't we have a 'restore' or 'backup' button in iTunes for each app? I keep a lot of client data in my OF db, and am concerned about data integrity like you. Is my data fully backed up or not? After all, it is MY data! Where does it go?

But as you said, transparency is a four-letter word at Apple... So for now I just hit sync 300 times/day ;)

I've had a different experience.

I've been using Omnifocus as a standalone app on my iPhone, and I don't have MobileMe. This morning, after syncing with iTunes to freshen several other apps that had updates, a few of the them would crash. So I did what all firmware 2.0 users have gotten into the habit of doing: resetting my phone. It looked like it was resetting, but it never came back from the apple screen.

I took my (old 2G) phone to the local mac store and they were unable to help me, so they sent me home with a replacement phone and the reassurance that *everything* is backed up into iTunes when you sync. Now the possible twist: being a replacement 2G phone, it only had 1.1.4 firmware on it, so I was to first update to 2.0.0, *then* restore.

After I'd done all that, I was depressed to see that not a single thing had been restored in my Omnifocus app. It even came up as it does the first time, asking if I want to sync with a mac or start a new database.

I guess I'm lucky that I've only had 1 week to brain dump into it. :$ I've just set up a WebDAV site in case something like this ever happens again.

On a positive note, among all my apps, OmniFocus is one of the few that has never crashed, so I'm pretty happy about that.

[LawDaddy]

Wow, the plot thickens...

I wish I remembered whether or not I opened up iOF and poked around after I restored, but I think I synced to MobileMe out of habit right away.