[mrglsmrc]

i am glad to see you are interested in what we want.
OO4 is prolly more important to me.
On my ipodtouch2ndgen 32g i use the ten dollar instaviz application to do some of what I do in graffle and outliner.
For simple lists I use bento.
I might switch-up if omni produced something because you're good, but it would have to be something special to be worth the bother.

[cameronad]

Originally Posted by DerekM

1) Do you need multiple columns of data, column types, or the column summary options?

Not really, but it might be nice to have the option, even if not on the same screen.

2) Do you need formatting support? Or just plain text like OmniFocus for the iPhone.

Plain text would be OK, Again a nice to have but not necessary.

3) Do you need attachment support?

How is this different to children? Yes I need hierarchy support (parents and children), and / or attachments.

4) Should it be a viewer only, or have editing capabilities? If just a viewer only, how well does the Quick Look preview/DHTML export meet your needs? (Viewing the export on the iPhone that is)

Needs editing, even it just for notes fields.

5) What kind of syncing expectations do you have? This would be one big reason why OmniOutliner 4 needs to be developed first as OO3 is not designed for merging synced changes.

Sync between iPhone app and desktop app. If either makes changes, the respective version is updated. It would be god to have changes highlighted as an option.

If you have any other specific expectations for the app, please let us know too. Thanks for your feedback and support!

I really would like image support and small video support if possible. Voice notes could be a nice option too.

I would pay aprox. $40 dollars for a full featured syncable iPhone app.

Here are some ways I'd use an iPhone app for OmniOutliner:

1. As a to-do list... so I'd like to be able to check things off, move items around, view multiple columns, have the text wrap around and resized so it fits on one screen. Indenting and unindenting would be important as would sorting.

2. View and edit plans for a project (like my wedding)... in this case, I want an easy way to navigate around the rows and columns (headers should stay visible, potentially locking columns would help)

3. As a place to store ideas, thoughts... here's where hiding and expanding hierarchies would be really useful.

Formatting is not so important, although it would be nice to be able to bold stuff. Attachment support is not critical for me. Having viewing capability without editing capability is not of much use to me. I might as well export as PDF and use a PDF viewer.

Syncing is crucial in that changes I make on the iPhone should automatically make it back to my original document. I would ideally like the syncing to happen when I click the "Sync" button in iTunes without having to go to another app even if I initially have to choose what files get synced.

Good luck!
Chris

[vincentkeunen]

Editing on the iPhone is crucial for me.
Sync with OO on Mac also.
The rest is less necessary, can be done later.
I agree that having the app sooner is better (even if it has less features).
I would also pay 30$.

You can probably reuse pretty much of the code of OmniFocus/iPhone (gui, db, sync...). I use both OF on iPhone and Mac and can't live without them. But an Outliner is still needed.

Thanks for your excellent work.

[scotty321]

I would really love ANY sort of a stripped down version of OmniOutliner for the iPhone, as long as it had syncing ability between the iPhone and the desktop OmniOutliner app.

I've been resisting moving over to OmniFocus because I find OmniFocus way too complex & structured for my needs... even the simpler program Things is STILL too complex & structured for my needs.

But OmniOutliner is perfect for all of my to-do lists! I've got dozens upon dozens of OmniOutliner files on my hard drive... and I would absolutely LOVE LOVE to sync these with my iPhone bidirectionally.

Currently, what I'm doing is emailing myself notes from my iPhone, and then manually copying-and-pasting those notes into OmniOutliner on my Mac. It would be awesome if it all just automatically synced!

[vincentkeunen]

Scotty321: you should really take a serious look at OmniFocus; it is NOT complex. Just give yourself 1 hour to evaluate it, you won't regret it... (provide you know a bit about GTD first). Good luck.

(but we still need OmniOutliner for the iPhone)

[JohnJ80]

I typically take notes in outline form in my customer and business meetings. I'd use OmniOutliner for that but only if it would directly sync with my iPhone. I take notes in meetings on both the iPhone and my MBP.

I also use OmniFocus, but I'd like to be able to take a bullet in OO and designate it as an action item and then have it show up in OmniFocus both on the mac and on the iPhone.

J.

In designing OO for the iPhone, there are some capabilities that are trivial on the desktop platform that will need some thought for the mobile platform:

* OO4 will need some type of library support. This need not be as sophisticated as the iTunes/iPhoto libraries, it can be as simple as a structured set of directories, but I'll need a way to indicate which outlines I want synced to the iPhone, and a way to organize them.
* OO4 will need a way either manage a parent/child relationship between two outlines, or an easy way to make copies of an outline.

Let me explain:

I use OO3 and similar checklist programs for three different purposes:
1. To keep a list of recurring to-do items. For example, a travel checklist, a camping checklist, or a weekly grocery shopping list.
2. To keep an inventory of storage boxes. (although a note pad application is also suitable.)
3. To take notes during meetings, especially of follow-up actions.

All of these uses have tremendous mobile application potential.

Originally Posted by DerekM

1) Do you need multiple columns of data, column types, or the column summary options?

2) Do you need formatting support? Or just plain text like OmniFocus for the iPhone.

3) Do you need attachment support?

1. No - although, for more sophisticated inventory taking this may be invaluable
2. No.
3. No.

4) Should it be a viewer only, or have editing capabilities? If just a viewer only, how well does the Quick Look preview/DHTML export meet your needs? (Viewing the export on the iPhone that is)

I really need to edit, at least I need to be able to move columns around, check off completed items, and insert/delete items as well. For to-do and inventory tracking, I'm only going to make changes to an existing outline. However, for brainstorming, I will be composing an outline directly on the iPhone.

5) What kind of syncing expectations do you have? This would be one big reason why OmniOutliner 4 needs to be developed first as OO3 is not designed for merging synced changes.

If you have any other specific expectations for the app, please let us know too. Thanks for your feedback and support!

I am already an OmniFocus fanatic. The syncing using MobileMe works great for me. Something similar would work great for OO as well.

However, the different uses mentioned above, really have different sync requirements. For note taking and inventory, I need the mobile file and the desktop file to sync with each other: In a formal meeting, I'm likely to have my MacBook Pro with me, but would like to be able to use the iPhone to take notes in ad-hock or informal meetings. Inventory, is especially well suited for mobile use. If I were to add or remove something from a storage container, it would be great to be able to record the changes directly on the iPhone. Along these same lines, it's important to be able to search through the notes so that I may find out which container something is stored in.

For checklists, the sync requirement is a little different for I would like to keep a master parent checklist that is generally applicable, and make ad-hock copies of the list for each time I need to use the checklist. This can be thought of as the electronic equivalent to a pre-printed pad of paper where the pad as a whole is general, but each sheet may be customized for a specific event.

For example, say I am packing for a trip. I want to be able to have the iPhone with me as I am going through my closet and putting things into my suitcase. In doing so, I may find an item that I need just for this trip, so I'd like to be able to add it to the this-trip-only packing list and leave the master list alone. At other times, I may think of something to add to both lists, and would like to be able to do so.

On the desktop, this is trivial. Before packing, I can simply copy the parent outline file and work in the copy. Then as changes need to be made I'd edit the appropriate copy. This action needs to be just as trivial on the iPhone.

I love OmniOutliner, and as a designer/ art-director/ idea generator I love to put my ideas first into OmniOutliner. It's one of my key apps, because it's fast, smooth and let's me think purely.

But the iPhone has it's shortcomings, I really love it, but it works different than a computer or a laptop. It has a more basic way of working and we have different needswith an iPhone. And the point is that everyone needs a smooth workflow. With an iPhone or with a computer. Workflow is key.

I think we need an app just like OmniOutliner on the iPhone, but rather outlining in the broader sence. This because we are always on the go with an iPhone, ... even in our house or in the office. Sometimes we have no time to type in text (while driving? while walking?), so the spoken word, images, or even video can help us a lot. The concept then is rather adapted for a different use on a mobile phone.

So OmniOutliner text module for the iPhone may be much more basic than the computer version, but we must be able to 'outline' our ideas on the go! Because ideas are easily forgotten and sometimes gone for ever, ... and the last thing we want to have with OmniOutliner is a writers' block. When we are at home or at the office, we can finalize our file and type everything neatly.

Regards,
Peter

1) Multiple columns of data - I'd probably need more than just a single column. My current mobile outliner is BrainForest on the Palm, which only supports a single main column, but also has a 'start date' and 'due date' attached to each column, plus 'priority' and, of course, a checkbox (and notes). This allows it to be used as a to-do list or project manager; I'd like to be able to do something similar with OO. This is straying slightly into OF territory, but for managing complex projects an outliner that can make a separate document for each project may be more appropriate than trying to load many hundreds of hierarchically-structured tasks into a single OmniFocus database.

2) Formatting support or plain text - plain text is fine for me.

3) Attachment support - Attachments, no, but notes, yes.

4) Viewer only, or editing capabilities - editing is an absolute must for me.

5) Syncing - it would be nice if syncing could reconcile changes on different platforms, but really I'd be happy if I could edit documents on either platform and have the document readable/editable on the other. If the documents on the iPhone have to be in a 'simplified' format (and OO4 had a 'mobile document mode' where not all features are available), I could live with that too.

As I say, I currently use BrainForest as my mobile outliner. I use it for note-taking and recording ideas in a more or less structured form. I also use it for project planning, as a kind of hierarchical to-do list. I don't feel that I need much more than what BrainForest gives me on a mobile device, but I'd really like to be able to edit the outlines on the desktop in OmniOutliner, instead of the clunky BrainForest desktop client.

Incidentally, one feature that BrainForest has that I'd like to see in a future version of OO is completion percentages. Instead of a simple checkbox on each row to indicate done/not done, you can set a percentage value to indicate how much of the task represented by the row has been done. The completion percentages for parent rows update based on the values of their children. Something similar can be done with a number column and calculated summaries using 'Average Leaves' in OO, but BF displays everything as nice little bars; very easy to interpret.

BrainForest also supports a timeline view that shows start and due dates in a timeline, but that's a frill, whereas the 'completion percentage' is a very useful feature.

Incidentally, to say that I am eagerly awaiting an OmniGroup-made outliner on the iThing is a serious understatement. The absence of a convincing outliner is one of the few things that keeps me wedded to the Palm for the moment.