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Can't Open Perspective in New Window? Unbelievable. [Resolved in 1.7.4] Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Well, at first I thought I was doing something wrong after I upgraded to v1.7.

But after browsing the forums, it seems as if OF v1.7 really removed a key piece of my OF workflow.

Selecting a new perspective stomps all over my window positioning by opening the new perspective in the current window.

- There seems to be no way to override this change via a universal preference.

- There seems to be no way to override this change on a per-perspective basis.

Remembering to hold down the option key every time I access the Perspective menu is not a viable alternative.

I've downgraded to v1.6 until/if this is fixed. (I was smart enough to keep a backup.)

I've downloaded Things for the first time ever, and am evaluating it for future use.

It is incomprehensible to me why the OF team couldn't have bothered to implement a simple preference to keep OF working the same way it has since its inception. Obviously, since option selecting still works, all the code necessary is still there.

I've long been an OF evangelist, and I've convinced several folks to purchase the software. But if this is an example of the contempt the development team has for the installed base, I feel like a sucker for being an evangelist in the past, and I certainly won't make the same mistake in the future.
 
I (and others) have already requested this feature be added back. I suggest you email the Support Ninjas.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdiadamo View Post
I (and others) have already requested this feature be added back. I suggest you email the Support Ninjas.
Good luck with that.

I'm frankly too angry to send them a non-abusive email. This decision shows such contempt for their installed base that I have no idea how to reason with them.

The feature is still present in the code, they've just made a decision to not let their users access it. They actually spent effort removing the check-box to give users the ability to have individual perspectives open in a new window. I have no idea what kind of dysfunction is going on with the design group to do something like this, but I do know I want no part of them.

I've been a good customer and evangelist for OmniGroup in the past, and if they don't want future business from me or the folks I recommend Apple stuff to, that's their problem, not mine.

I've downloaded Things today and have started playing with it. It's not half bad.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky23 View Post
It is incomprehensible to me why the OF team couldn't have bothered to implement a simple preference to keep OF working the same way it has since its inception. Obviously, since option selecting still works, all the code necessary is still there.
Calm down, they made a considered decision (which I don't particularly like either) on how to improve the product. There's no evidence they woke up one morning and said "hey, let's really screw up Bill and Chucky's workflows!" Go make a calm, logical case via Help->Send Feedback as to why you think this change has not been an improvement, but rather the opposite, and perhaps they'll accommodate us in some fashion. They make mistakes just like everyone else does, but usually do a pretty good job of recovering from them, and are very open to listening to feedback, positive or negative. I wish I could same the same about the providers of just about every other piece of software I use!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by whpalmer4 View Post
Calm down, they made a considered decision (which I don't particularly like either) on how to improve the product. There's no evidence they woke up one morning and said "hey, let's really screw up Bill and Chucky's workflows!"
They made a "considered" decision to remove core functionality for no good reason. Including a check-box in the Perspectives Window wouldn't have impeded their larger design decisions on how to "improve the product". Including an app-wide default (even a hidden default) wouldn't have impeded their larger design decisions on how to "improve the product".

And, of course, I can't stay with v1.6 once I upgrade to snow leopard, which I was planning on doing this weekend. You'd think they could have released a snow leopard compatible version that doesn't piss all over their established base.

Hell, yes, I'm angry.

-----

The thing that really amazed me is that when I poked through the forums to find the (non-existent) trick to allow normal functionality back, I ran across a post from Ken Case saying that the open window in a new perspective option would be added back in the release version of v1.7. That post is from over a month ago. Four OF releases have happened since that post.

This obviously isn't something that interests the folks at OmniGroup.

It's a known issue that they've said they were going to fix more than a month ago. It's something that would take one or two man-hours of work to fix. But yet they're not fixing it.

I think anger is a more appropriate response than calming down.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky23 View Post
Hell, yes, I'm angry.
But are you angry for a good reason? I'd say "no", because this just isn't as big of a deal as you are trying to make it. If the behavior stays as it is, you merely need to hold down the option key when you want to make a new window instead of changing an old one. This habit should take about a day to learn, if that. They haven't changed or removed some vital aspect of your workflow and left you with no reasonable way to do something equivalent.

Quote:
The thing that really amazed me is that when I poked through the forums to find the (non-existent) trick to allow normal functionality back, I ran across a post from Ken Case saying that the open window in a new perspective option would be added back in the release version of v1.7. That post is from over a month ago. Four OF releases have happened since that post.

This obviously isn't something that interests the folks at OmniGroup.

It's a known issue that they've said they were going to fix more than a month ago. It's something that would take one or two man-hours of work to fix. But yet they're not fixing it.

I think anger is a more appropriate response than calming down.
I went and looked at what the forum software said were all of Ken's posts since early July (well before 1.7 sneaky peeks came out). There was a post by xmas stating that they would likely put such a feature in, but I saw nothing from Ken promising one. And even if he did promise something "in 1.7" that I overlooked, remember that the initial 1.7 release had a hasty delivery due to Snow Leopard's surprise early arrival, and there is all sorts of functionality promised for "1.7" that has yet to be delivered in a release whose identifier starts with "1.7". That doesn't mean it isn't going to happen, just that it hasn't happened yet. Yes, there have been a bunch of subsequent releases, all targeted at bug-fixing for the most part. Customers unable to sync might have some cause for being angry; customers who have to learn to hold down the option key for some operations, not so much.

I've had great success with sending in feedback of the calm, rational sort, and exhibiting a bit of patience. Temper tantrums aren't likely to work. Temper tantrums on the forum are even less likely to get your desired change.
 
From the release notes of 1.7.4 r119660

Quote:
Perspectives once again have the option to always open in a new window.
Hope this helps.

-Dennis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky23 View Post
They made a "considered" decision to remove core functionality for no good reason.
I'm sorry our actions led you to feel this way! It wasn't initially clear to us whether any customers considered "open in a new window by default" to be core functionality, so we decided to experiment with removing it: we knew it was causing confusion for some of our customers, and thought that the simplification might help. We always planned to bring it back if any customers really did miss it—and in the latest 1.7.4 sneaky peek builds, you'll find that the option is back.

(Our apologies to those who have had to wait for this for the last four weeks since the 1.7 release: it's been a very busy month!)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Case View Post
it's been a very busy month!
The (removed) blood on the snow leopard's mouth comes from the installed base screaming in agony as it gets bitten.

-----

I very much appreciate that this issue will be fixed.

I have high expectations for OmniGroup, which is why I've always been eager to recommend your products.
 
I have to agree with whpalmer4 - this isn't an issue to get so angry about. If they had broken your sync or introduced a bug that caused you to lose precious data, maybe. But forcing you to press the option key when you click on a perspective? Not something to get angry about. At most, maybe a little irritated.

I would suggest you go outside, take a walk around the block and get some perspective. Throwing tantrums in forums rarely accomplishes the intended results.

Consider this - very few software companies listen to their installed user base. In my experience, the Omni Group is extremely accommodating of desires & needs from their users.

Ken, thank you for your reasonable and kind response. Thanks also for adding this functionality back into perspectives in the upcoming release.
 
 


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