[Greg Jones]

Features and benefits are easy to describe-the Omni Group does a good job of communicating that. Value on the other hand is very subjective. The features that one user might find value in, another user might find totally worthless. What I believe sets the Omni products apart from the rest of the pack is there is no risk in seeing if they offer value to you. Don't find value in OmniGraphSketcher or OmniGraffle for the iPad? Still think that OmniFocus on the iPad is 'meh'? Then ask for a refund in the first 30 days and you've risked nothing. I can't imagine a better way to communicate the value of a product than letting the user decide for his or her self.

[steve]

If I could afford an ipad, then I wouldn't even blink about dropping $40 for the ipad version of omnifocus. I borrowed an ipad for a week and OF on the ipad was awesome!

[davidogren]

I too am having problems reconciling the $40 price. The bottom line is that my original workflow was to plan on the Mac version and then execute on the iPhone. When I got my iPad, I started doing a little of that execution on the iPad instead.

And although I don't like using apps designed for the iPhone on my iPad (it's just a waste of screen space and design), it's more than good enough for that simple task. I always assumed that I'd upgrade when the iPad version of OmniFocus came out, but I have a hard time spending $40 when the current system works just fine.

If I didn't have the iPhone version, I don't think I'd have a problem. I do understand Omni's desire to keep their software prices sustainable. But with a working version already, it's hard to justify the price.

Maybe if I could convince myself that I'd do reviews or project management on the iPad if I got the newest version. But the Mac version still seems the best version for planning.

Sigh.

[gopi]

Originally Posted by davidogren

Maybe if I could convince myself that I'd do reviews or project management on the iPad if I got the newest version. But the Mac version still seems the best version for planning.

I've been using OF since the beta. I kept telling myself I would do reviews. I never ended up doing them.

I've been doing reviews very frequently since the iPad version came out.

I was using the iPhone version "modified" to be full screen on my iPad. Much better than screen doubling. The genuine iPad version was so much of an improvement that I can't live without it.

[zoom]

It's a free country....

I love OF and would pay much more. You may feel that it's too expensive and there are a number of other cheaper applications for you to consider.

Personally, I consider it a no-brainer in that it is very inexpensive relative to the value provided. It's my trusted system and is the most powerful GTD app that I've found.

[Todd412]

Agree with zoom... for me, the value provided by omnifocus is almost immeasurable. It may well be the only reason I can juggle as many projects as I do without going crazy.

Also the way it allows me to offload all the myriad of ideas and plans from my brain into a system where I know nothing will slip through the cracks is an incredible stress reducer. I got my wife hooked on it as well and while she's not as fanatical about it, her experience is similar.

[endoftheQ]

Originally Posted by ksrhee

Would someone who paid $$$$ for Audi R8 would perceive value for money versus someone who paid $$ for Toyota would for their Corolla.

I'm genuinely trying to understand your point ksrhee, but if you bought a Bentley and discovered that a Mini had a better build quality, would you feel the same way?

As previously stated, I'm not price sensitive but I've learnt a lot about myself from this and similar threads. I am, along with some others, value sensitive.

Back in the 1970's I bought a Rank Xerox word processor that cost more than a house. It was value for money then because there wasn't anything else out there that did anything like it. OK, the years went by and IBM and Olivetti came onto the WP pitch, and prices plummeted. Few people younger than myself even remember that these companies existed in computing, let alone at one time dominated the WP market at such a price point.

If Omni had priced, at say, three or four hundred bucks, or (God-forbid!) three or four thousand, at what point what would even the most loyal users have said "just not worth it"?

I have felt, and maybe I'm alone in this, that Omni has sold premium-priced iDevice Apps and then expected me to be a beta tester! If anyone wants to evaluate a comparison, and can afford it, take a look at iThoughts, TaskPaper or Carbon Fin's Outliner if you want to see what I was hoping Omni would exceed at 2x, 5x, 10x the price, not fail to match.

Originally Posted by dave_m

We're definitely going to get import into OmniGraphSketcher for iPad as soon as possible. For 1.0 we were faced with a short timeframe...

Originally Posted by dave_m

We haven't prioritized the data inspector because it's a tough UI question

Really? Sorry, Dave_M, I don't understand who demanded a short time frame that justified releasing an expensive but inferior product? If anyone wants to download VVI's Graph App (it's free!), you'll see that they managed to implement data import and the ability to edit the underlying data of graph, not blithely say that it's "a tough UI question".

Originally Posted by Brian

Sorry about that! Documentation update is on our radar screen; just didn't want to hold the iPhone/iOS 4 release until after we completed the docs for OmniFocus for iPad.

So... many... projects... at... same... time! :-)

Originally Posted by dave_m

I talked to our Documentation Author about this and we should have PDF Manuals for OmniGraffle for iPad and OmniGraphSketcher for iPad available soon. In the meantime sorry for any inconvenience!

Am I alone in expecting a premium-priced product to be released with up-to-date user info. not the response that equates, in my mind, to "haven't got around to it because we're too busy releasing another expensive App"? I don't believe a current up-to-date user manual at the point-of-sale of a $50 App is too much to expect.

Originally Posted by Greg Jones

Then ask for a refund in the first 30 days and you've risked nothing.

You're right Greg. I could have done that. I didn't in the same way I've spent more on bad lunches and not bothered to ask for my money back! However, it does mean that I'm going to be pretty reluctant to give that business any more of my dosh.

It may be that Ken is sitting on a cash mountain and is flitting between the Hamptons, a chateau in France and a yacht moored somewhere in the South Pacific. Hopefully, in that case, for Member's who stick around, he'll maintain Omni as a hobby, even if the revenue stream dries up, which could be due to a significant number of us not being concerned about what Omni charges as long as it's value-for-money! :eek:

[ksrhee]

Originally Posted by endoftheQ

I'm genuinely trying to understand your point ksrhee, but if you bought a Bentley and discovered that a Mini had a better build quality, would you feel the same way?

As previously stated, I'm not price sensitive but I've learnt a lot about myself from this and similar threads. I am, along with some others, value sensitive.


If Omni had priced, at say, three or four hundred bucks, or (God-forbid!) three or four thousand, at what point what would even the most loyal users have said "just not worth it"?

I have felt, and maybe I'm alone in this, that Omni has sold premium-priced iDevice Apps and then expected me to be a beta tester! If anyone wants to evaluate a comparison, and can afford it, take a look at iThoughts, TaskPaper or Carbon Fin's Outliner if you want to see what I was hoping Omni would exceed at 2x, 3x, 10x the price, not fail to match.

You're right Greg. I could have done that. I didn't because I've spent more on bad lunches and not asked for a refund. However, I am probably not going to repeat the scenario. It may be that Ken is sitting on a cash mountain and is flitting between the Hamptons, a chateau in France and a yacht moored somewhere in the South Pacific. Hopefully, in that case, for Member's who stick around, he'll maintain Omni as a hobby, even if the revenue stream dries up (due to a significant number of us not being concerned about what Omni charges as long as it's value-for-money)! :eek:

I thought I made myself clear, but apparently you still don't get the point. You and I have a different value perspective, and I'm fine with that as my previous post states, but it seems like you are not, and you are trying to preach to everyone yours is the correct one. If not, I apologize in advance, but that's the perception I'm getting from a number of posts you posted.

If Omni had priced OF at $100, then I would have to assess whether it's worth it. I have spent more than $50 on iPad task applications before Omni released theirs; so, I guess I might still feel that way at a higher price point if I thought Omni made something I want to use every day.

Also, as Greg said that you could have asked for a refund within first 30 days. If you bought a Bentley when you could be happy with a Mini, then you should trade it in, or return the Bentley and get a Mini if you thought the Mini offered a better value. Besides, it's not like someone had paid $250,000 for OF, it's $40. Last time I checked, I paid more than that for dinner for 2 at a local restaurant . . .

Let's move on.

[endoftheQ]

Originally Posted by ksrhee

I thought I made myself clear, but apparently you still don't get the point. You and I have a different value perspective, and I'm fine with that as my previous post states, but it seems like you are not, and you are trying to preach to everyone yours is the correct one. If not, I apologize in advance, but that's the perception I'm getting from a number of posts you posted.

Apologies ksrhee, I'm not trying to 'preach to everyone [mine] is the correct [value perspective]'. I'm always grateful and feel privileged when other Member's take the time-and-trouble to attempt to understand what I'm experiencing and give me the benefit of their experience (take a bow, whpalmer4!) helping me appreciate a different point-of-view and get past, what I freely admit, may have become a fixed idea.

Originally Posted by ksrhee

If Omni had priced OF at $100, then I would have to assess whether it's worth it. I have spent more than $50 on iPad task applications before Omni released theirs; so, I guess I might still feel that way at a higher price point if I thought Omni made something I want to use every day.

I completely accept that you've found OmniFocus for iPad valuable enough to warrant the price, however, with all due repect, other users haven't.

Originally Posted by ksrhee

Also, as Greg said that you could have asked for a refund within first 30 days. If you bought a Bentley when you could be happy with a Mini, then you should trade it in, or return the Bentley and get a Mini if you thought the Mini offered a better value.

I didn't say that I'd be happy with a Mini over a Bentley. I said that if the Mini had a better build quality than my Bentley, having paid 10x the price, I wouldn't exactly be delighted.

Originally Posted by ksrhee

Besides, it's not like someone had paid $250,000 for OF, it's $40. Last time I checked, I paid more than that for dinner for 2 at a local restaurant . . .

OK, for some people $250,000 would be the point they would be value sensitive. I have to understand that for others it's $50.

Originally Posted by ksrhee

Let's move on.

OK, anyone who feels this issue is 'over' doesn't need to post to this thread. However, even if you're not interested, ksrhee, I am. If it's over, this thread will naturally fall to the back of the Board. In the interim, sorry, if I'm not willing to be dictated to! :rolleyes:

[Ken Case]

Originally Posted by endoftheQ

Really? Sorry, Dave_M, I don't understand who demanded a short time frame that justified releasing an expensive but inferior product? If anyone wants to download VVI's Graph App (it's free!), you'll see that they managed to implement data import and the ability to edit the underlying data of graph, not blithely say that it's "a tough UI question".

The point of OmniGraphSketcher is in the name: it's a tool for sketching graphs, with a goal of making it as easy to draw a graph on a computer as it is to do on a chalkboard or piece of paper. As far as I know it's the only tool of its kind.

Being able to graph imported data is also useful, but that's not the primary purpose of OmniGraphSketcher—if that's what you're looking for, you'll find Numbers to be a better (and less expensive) tool.

Am I alone in expecting a premium-priced product to be released with up-to-date user info. I don't believe a current up-to-date user manual at the point-of-sale is too much to expect.

Each of our iPad applications comes with its user manual built into the application. In our document-based applications you'll find this in the document picker; in OmniFocus you'll find it in the gear menu next to Settings.

It may be that Ken is sitting on a cash mountain and is flitting between the Hamptons, a chateau in France and a yacht moored somewhere in the South Pacific.

Wow. I'm not sure you realize how inexpensive our apps are compared to typical full-featured productivity applications. You might take a look at the monthly subscription fees for eProductivity or BaseCamp, and compare their limitations on the number of projects or contexts with what you're able to do in OmniFocus.

OmniFocus is just $39.99. Not $39.99/month, but $39.99—for software that will give you value for months and years to come.

Originally Posted by endoftheQ

I completely accept that you've found OmniFocus for iPad valuable enough to warrant the price, however, with all due repect, other users haven't.

If you don't feel that our apps are valuable enough to warrant their prices, please do take advantage of our 30-day money back guarantee! We want all our customers to receive amazing value from the applications we create, but we know that they aren't for everyone—and if you have even the slightest regret about your purchase, we absolutely want to make that right.