[Smithcraft]

I bought my OW license at the old price and I thought it was a bargain!

SC

[Juddbert]

Originally Posted by Tacitus

On this side of the pond $14.95 (Say £7.50 UK) equates to a couple of bottles of Stella - 3 if you're very lucky. OK you could get more if you were buying Bud or similar urine de Cheval.

However, given OW is something I use everyday, it is hardly overpriced.

Yo! We have no disagreement here. My points are not issues based upon value for money. My argument derives from issues of quality and performance.

In truth, I'm irritated that OmniGroup feel justified in seeking pecuniary recompense for what is, by their standards, a mediocre program. If other software houses have deemed that an internet browser is (a) worth developing, and (b) worth disseminating gratis for the greater good, then why is OmniGroup, a leading-edge software developer, so out of step on this issue? To be sure, OmniWeb has it’s devotees, but let’s be frank here; it’s just a web browser. This is not cutting edge development. I’ll grant you that it does sport a few unique features, and I do take on board the fact that Omni developers are rightly proud of their achievements, and expect to be receive something more than an editor’s ‘pick of the week’ for their efforts. But I’ll continue to maintain that this particular program is not super-class; it simply does not deserve the same accolades as OmniOutliner, OmniGraffle, OmniPlan and, even though it’s still in alpha, OmniFocus. To my mind, Camino is a better performer in virtually all the elements that define a world class browser, and it’s free to anyone who takes the trouble to download it. OmniWeb has failed, both in its breadth of features, and its performance, to persuade me otherwise. It's good enough to be a loss leader, an introduction to the OmniWay... but as for payment? Nah, in its current version, I don't think so.

I guess what I’m trying to say here is simply that I’ll not "oohh and aahh” over a program that doesn’t hit the sweet spot, even if it does herald from a company that, in general, I hold in very high regard. If I consider that it could, and should, be better, then I’m doing a disservice to OmniGroup by not voicing my concerns. I’ve nothing against purchasing good software. But OmniWeb is not good software - it’s mediocre software competing against very good free software. Am I wrong in demanding it should be better?

Best

Roy

[Smithcraft]

You aren't wrong in demanding that it should be better, but the rest is your opinion, and honestly I can't agree that any browser is better. I get frustrated with FireFox with it's constant annoyance popups, and Safari which in general bites it from the total lack of features standpoint.

Camino, I tried it once, and never felt the need to try it again.

Also any browser that doubles as an email client, loses my vote from the get go.

So, like I said above, 'to each their own.' For you OmniWeb isn't it, but for me, I don't like using anything else.*

I would hope that you continue to try OW and provide your critiques to the dev team to make it the best though.

SC

*I do use Safari when I wanna check a link or two, as my default workspace in OW has about 20 tabs, and I use FF for banking as it is accepted by more financial institutions than WebKit browsers.

[Juddbert]

Okay SC. Seems like we'll have to agree to disagree on this one :)

Of course I'll continue to try OW. I'll probably bitch and moan about it too, until the gods at OG either start parcelling it out as a freebie, or re-establish it as a browser actually worth buying.

Perhaps you'll permit me to suggest that you adopt a similar strategy, and re-visit Camino again from time to time. It is continually evolving and, you never know, one day you might actually find that you like it.

[Smithcraft]

Will do!

SC

[daiyi666@yahoo.com]

Originally Posted by Juddbert

Yo! We have no disagreement here. My points are not issues based upon value for money. My argument derives from issues of quality and performance.

.... But I’ll continue to maintain that this particular program is not super-class; it simply does not deserve the same accolades as OmniOutliner, OmniGraffle, OmniPlan and, even though it’s still in alpha, OmniFocus. To my mind, Camino is a better performer in virtually all the elements that define a world class browser, and it’s free to anyone who takes the trouble to download it. OmniWeb has failed, both in its breadth of features, and its performance, to persuade me otherwise. It's good enough to be a loss leader, an introduction to the OmniWay... but as for payment? Nah, in its current version, I don't think so.

... But OmniWeb is not good software - it’s mediocre software competing against very good free software. Am I wrong in demanding it should be better?

Best

Roy

We should always demand better of any product. Nothing wrong there. But are "mediocre" and "very good" purely objective terms as you understand or use them?

To my mind, much of our evaluation of software is based on personal needs and preferences, not some absolute, objective standard. That's not to deny qualitative differences either. Some software is rather lacking, to be sure.

For me personally, I need site preferences for work perusing sites in different languages. No other browser that offers some form of site preferences (ie SafariStand and FF plugins) matches what I like about OW's implementation of it. The other aspect which was, until the recent release of Safari 3B, unique and useful for me was zoomed text editing. Even though Safari 3 will offer this, I still prefer OW's implementation since the text field can expand beyond the size of the original browser window (especially useful for discussion forums, I've found, especially lengthy exchanges).

You probably do not need the features that for me make OW my browser of choice--despite some imperfections. But until you offer compelling arguments to the contrary, I don't think that OW can simply be categorized as "mediocre" when compared to other browsers.

[Juddbert]

Originally Posted by daiyi666@yahoo.com

We should always demand better of any product. Nothing wrong there. But are "mediocre" and "very good" purely objective terms as you understand or use them?

I did, or so I thought, make it clear that I was offering a personal perspective:

But I’ll continue to maintain that this particular program is not super-class; it simply does not deserve the same accolades as OmniOutliner, OmniGraffle, OmniPlan and, even though it’s still in alpha, OmniFocus. To my mind, Camino is a better performer in virtually all the elements that define a world class browser, and it’s free to anyone who takes the trouble to download it. OmniWeb has failed, both in its breadth of features, and its performance, to persuade me otherwise.

If this isn't a subjective appraisal, then I don't know what is. I'm expressing opinions; questions, opinions, answers, perspectives, persuasion, these are the fundamentals of this and any other forum. We are all at liberty to evaluate according to our personal needs and preferences. I'm not looking to cause offense - I'm looking to be persuaded! To that end I'll call it as I see it, and quite accept that others are entitled, and indeed likely, to do the same.

Best

Roy

[daiyi666@yahoo.com]

Originally Posted by Juddbert

I did, or so I thought, make it clear that I was offering a personal perspective:

If this isn't a subjective appraisal, then I don't know what is. I'm expressing opinions; questions, opinions, answers, perspectives, persuasion, these are the fundamentals of this and any other forum. We are all at liberty to evaluate according to our personal needs and preferences. I'm not looking to cause offence - I'm looking to be persuaded! To that end I'll call it as I see it, and quite accept that others are entitled, and indeed likely, to do the same.

Best

Roy

You're certainly not causing any offence, and should continue to offer your opinions here. Since you find Camino (which I have used and like) better suited to your needs, however, I'm not sure what the point of persuading you would be at this juncture.

[FredH]

Originally Posted by Juddbert

Okay SC. Seems like we'll have to agree to disagree on this one :)

Of course I'll continue to try OW. I'll probably bitch and moan about it too, until the gods at OG either start parcelling it out as a freebie, or re-establish it as a browser actually worth buying.

Perhaps you'll permit me to suggest that you adopt a similar strategy, and re-visit Camino again from time to time. It is continually evolving and, you never know, one day you might actually find that you like it.

I've gone over to Camino for the time being, it's a relatively simple and solid browser. OmniWeb stability problems were just getting too much for me, both in 5.5.4 and in the last alphas that I tried (haven't tried the latest). But I check back here and will try OW again later because I really like many of its features, particularly the per site preferences.

[JKT]

If you are satisfied using Camino, then it is already apparent that OmniWeb might not be the browser for you at the moment. Personally, I find Camino (much like Safari) to be far too "browser-lite". In other words, it is overly simplistic (and, therefore, very frustrating to use) for my needs. However, comparing Camino and OmniWeb is the equivalent of comparing Camino and Firefox - in both comparisons, they are two browsers aimed at very different audiences.