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I would say stalemate except that my guess is users who drag images are more web-savvy than users who drag links. Because of this, it make sense to have the features less savvy users use be more intuitive.

I should add, I often drag images and never drag links. I also only recently learned the shift-drag option.

Last edited by Forrest; 2006-05-11 at 09:45 AM..
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc
There's real value in being able to drag the link, but IMHO the most 'intuitive' behaviour would be, as Handycam says, the image drag by default.
Yes, please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by forrest
So no one else things it would be confusing for most users by having links that sometimes drag and images that sometimes drag, when using the same action?
No. The intended action of dragging a link to the desktop would be to save that link. The intended action of dragging an image to the desktop would be to save the image. So the action is indeed the same. You're saving what you dragged.

And it could be a preference, as in:

Code:
Dragging a linked image...

() Saves the image

() Saves the link on the image

Hold shift to temporarily toggle this setting.
Why is this so contentious? Every other browser allows this.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forrest
I would say stalemate except that my guess is users who drag images are more web-savvy than users who drag links. Because of this, it make sense to have the features less savvy users use be more intuitive.
I don't mean to harp on it, I'm just not sure... you may be right of course I just think I've observed the reverse (but not a conclusive sample!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forrest
I should add, I often drag images and never drag links. I also only recently learned the shift-drag option.
I don't find myself dragging links a huge amount, I tend to use the site icon of a page I've read (having confirmed interest), rather than dragging a link (anticipating interest.)

You don't find users wanting to 'pinch' a cute image, animation whatever, only to be (sometimes) hampered by js, flash, layers etc.? I ask as I'm genuinely curious if I'm guessing wrongly! :)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc
You don't find users wanting to 'pinch' a cute image, animation whatever, only to be (sometimes) hampered by js, flash, layers etc.? I ask as I'm genuinely curious if I'm guessing wrongly! :)
I work at an ad agency. Often we need to grab an image from a site like fotosearch.com to use in a comp. Or we open local files that are image catalogs. Or we simply see an image (or harvest several) we want to show someone later.

It's very intuitive to drag the desired image to the desktop or to a folder, or even to Photoshop.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Handycam
No. The intended action of dragging a link to the desktop would be to save that link. The intended action of dragging an image to the desktop would be to save the image. So the action is indeed the same. You're saving what you dragged.
Obviously I was referring to images that are linked. :rolleyes:

And, no, not every other browser works the way you describe. Additionally, the fact that most other browsers do shouldn't be a reason why Omni should change. With that logic, none of us should be using Macs.

Quote:
You don't find users wanting to 'pinch' a cute image, animation whatever, only to be (sometimes) hampered by js, flash, layers etc.? I ask as I'm genuinely curious if I'm guessing wrongly!
Very rarely. But I also don't know many people who drag links much.
 
Well, how about the suggestion of making it a preference, so the user can decide?

If you think my behavior is only for advanced users, then I'd settle for it being a "hidden" pref, so only "power" users would muck with it.
 
There is a lot of history in the way OmniWeb drags links and images.

Originally (back in 1994 when we invented link dragging) we had URL icons (zaps) next to links to allow you to drag the URL explicitly. I think the current implementation goes back to when we made grabbing text with a url grab the URL--no one seems to complain (anymore) that you can't just select the text inside a URL, it always grabs the link--why is that any different than grabbing an image that is a link? (Your cursor lets you know right away whether you are going to get a link or an image).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Len Case
There is a lot of history in the way OmniWeb drags links and images.

Originally (back in 1994 when we invented link dragging) we had URL icons (zaps) next to links to allow you to drag the URL explicitly.
I remember the 'zaps', they were very distinctive. :)

Dare I complicate things and throw out the thought that when hovering over an image with a link, that the venerable 'zap' icon could appear 'near' the image, and grabbing that icon would drag the link, whereas just grabbing the image would act like an image without a link?

Perhaps it complicates things, but it might work, in practice, broadly similar to the OW-custom tooltips on tabs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Len Case
I think the current implementation goes back to when we made grabbing text with a url grab the URL--no one seems to complain (anymore) that you can't just select the text inside a URL, it always grabs the link--why is that any different than grabbing an image that is a link? (Your cursor lets you know right away whether you are going to get a link or an image).
Yes, it tells you, but we're 'arguing' over what should be the default behaviour, and the Shift-toggle. :)

IMHO this also links to URL of downloaded file in Spotlight comments? -- for those of us image-draggers the ideal would be the ablity to drag images off a page and have the URL of the image (if not the containing page) included in the file's Spotlight Comments field, to allow you to retrace your steps.

Perhaps this is more oriented to designer-types, I'm always grabbing interesting designs, screenshots, or doing research on something or other, and often amongst this detritus there's a gem that I want to follow up later.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Len Case
Originally (back in 1994 when we invented link dragging) we had URL icons (zaps) next to links to allow you to drag the URL explicitly. I think the current implementation goes back to when we made grabbing text with a url grab the URL--no one seems to complain (anymore) that you can't just select the text inside a URL, it always grabs the link--why is that any different than grabbing an image that is a link? (Your cursor lets you know right away whether you are going to get a link or an image).
Because, unfortunately, many sites add a link to an image that wasn't intended as a link. This is relatively new.

In the earlier days you describe, and image with a link was clearly intended as a way to get to somewhere. It was likely a button or navigational element, and you indeed would prefer to save its link -- who wants the button?

But now, let's say I go to a site like The Superficial (only one that came to mind :o ). You read the first story about Jessica Simpson :o :o and click one of the image links to see a larger picture. You like the larger picture and want to save it to your desktop to show a buddy. Drag it to the desktop... WHOOPS it has a damn link to the home page.

You see? You guys are right that with logically-constructed sites, an image like this one -- which is really pure content -- should not have a link, and dragging it should net you the image. But it DOES have a link, as do most such images these day, and now the old behavior is not in step.

I don't care what the default behavior is -- I want to be able to CHANGE the default behavior to suit the sites I personally surf.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Handycam
I don't care what the default behavior is -- I want to be able to CHANGE the default behavior to suit the sites I personally surf.
You can, hold down shift ;)
 
 


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