[brandall10]

Originally Posted by Ken Case

Wow. I'm not sure you realize how inexpensive our apps are compared to typical full-featured productivity applications.

So Ken, you don't have a yacht?? For shame :o:D

Regardless of people's standards of value, OFiPad is priced at a high premium compared to its competition given the high-volume app-store model. Enough that it clearly sticks out because of it, when in Rome and all that jazz. Compared to traditional software distribution it is rather cheap. So I feel this thread is helpful for those stuck in this quandary, to go through these motions to calibrate their value compass. I find it interesting how a good friend of mine is a millionaire several times over and obsesses about things such as an $8 sandwich not living up to his expectations - that he would have enjoyed it more if it cost $6. Perhaps that's how he got to where he is, who knows.

That said, the fun of a philosophical discussion aside and time being money, most people contributing likely make more per hour than this app costs. The more vocal people perhaps have spent more than the app's cost reading and sharing their thoughts here. Just something to consider in the grand scheme of things.

As a personal note, I've tried a couple other task managers and nothing stuck. OF has been integrated into my workflow for the past couple weeks, and today I forgot my iPad. Going back to pen and paper is downright medieval!

[whpalmer4]

Originally Posted by endoftheQ

I'm genuinely trying to understand your point ksrhee, but if you bought a Bentley and discovered that a Mini had a better build quality, would you feel the same way?

Since you bring up 70s products and live in the UK, how would you feel if you splashed out for a 70s Jaguar, maybe an E-type with that impossibly long hood stretching out in front of you, and discovered that just about everything ever made had a higher-quality electrical system? Might you not still prefer your Jaguar to something more reliable (and considerably less expensive), even if all your friends insisted on giving you those "All the parts falling off this car are of the finest British manufacture" bumper stickers? ;)

Who do you think has more fun at their club meetings, the folks regaling each other with their tales of (mis)adventure, or the ones who report "terribly reliable, no problems with mine, shall we meet again next year?" and adjourn?

[braver]

I've just perused endoftheQ complaints and must say I agree with many of them -- although, still, I did buy the whole lineup. Except, I also bought OmniDazzle for Mac, waiting to ask for that $15 credit when it went free against my next purchase from Omni; I wanted to buy OmniGraffle for Mac, but Brian claimed too much time has passed and they have no mechanism to refund -- lame, I passed on the OG/Mac and will keep passing on principle until the said mechanism is developed.

The marketing strategy of Omni works on the Mac, and it works on the existing customer base. The forums here are amazing -- compare it with Things, for instance, half-clueless, helpless to a point of despair.

Still, despite of the thriving community, Omni does not do much to actually implement the things people are asking for, such as tags. If you don't like tags, don't use them; now tags are what pulling many folks to Things. Sync services is another example. In any case, the premium prices work since the community is here and is able and willing to buy the next thing. There's an inertia which carries over to iPad right now. But the dominance of iPad creates a new reality. So what will happen is, once the core buyers here will complete their lineups, the prices will go down to compete with the all-new iPad crowd.

And my experience with the tight-fistedness over refunding or crediting or in any way acknowledging the fact that a long-paying customer deserves something for an app he bought which went free does not bode well for any refunds or credits when the price does go down. The fact that there're defenders of the high prices here, crying "hit me harder!" -- is admirable, we understand long-term service we get from Omni; yet a lot of it is this very community, and sync and tags still have to materialize! I am one of those folks who does pay every time, hoping for the better, and we do get the products. The question is, what the larger world of iPad will do.

The main value of Omni products is in fact this community. Omni will do better to accommodate it better, including coupons, features, etc.

[curt.clifton]

I sincerely wish there were a way to ignore a thread in the forums, but there isn't and so I keep reading the new posts to this d%#med thing. I guess that's my problem.

My experience is that Omni does an incredible job of adding the features that I'd like to see added to their apps. That may be because I'm a software geek at heart and so am a kindred spirit to Ken and Tim and Rowan and Brian and Derek and the rest of the OG crew. I also recognize that there is a vocal minority that wants certain features and is disappointed when they aren't added. (Clones in OmniOutliner, anyone?) I feel their pain, but don't see a bit of evidence that Omni is ignoring its customers. In fact, I've never encountered a software company that is more customer-focused than Omni.

While the community around Omni products is a wonderful thing, I think there is something even more important in setting Omni apart. When you buy an Omni product, you're buying the best customer support in the business. I suppose even the best make an occasional mistake, but I've never dealt with a support organization that had as high a batting average as Omni's.

Finally, while there has been plenty of complaining on this thread, sales, app store reviews, and nearly every seriously review that I've seen say that Omni absolutely nailed the value proposition with OF iPad. It's too bad that it isn't the perfect app for everyone, but don't take the small number of people complaining here as evidence of a groundswell against Omni. Hell, even in this thread—a thread dedicated to price complaints—I suspect that if you count the number of unique posters pro and con, you'll find that the naysayers are a minority.

I hope I haven't offended anyone with my directness. I'm not one who has to have the last word, so I'll try to avoid that reply button on this thread.

[braver]

Sure, we're all Omni fans, but criticizing or defending the pricing is not the main value of this thread. EndoftheQ raises some very important points. The fact that we are willing to buy is obvious; we made OF/iPad one of the highest grossing apps.

However, pricing strategy for iPad differs overall from what Omni does -- there's no question about it. Many of us are programmers at heart, and in mind, and by trade, too. Heck, there are some computer scientists, too. They don't understand why perspective-based iCal Sync Services are not supported yet, or tags, or such simple things as Sync Flagged to an iCal calendar (as opposed to a context).

What this thread doesn't need is a Soviet-style "yeah, charge my card again." We need to understand where we stand vis-a-vis value. I listed specific cases of features asked for years ago and not even entered into the system properly -- Sync Flagged -- and credits/upgrades not offered where warranted.

This is an Omni choice, but many customers in fact disagree. Instead of some general "but we approve," it would be useful to be very specific of what exactly you approve of, and what not. E.g. I have no need for phone support, and I don't want to pay for it. I'd rather pay whpalmer4. :)

Instead of forever asking for features like Sync Flagged with no use, I got the whole Things lineup and experiment with it for a long time. My chances of sticking with Omni depend on Omni's reactions. So do many others'. Instead of shutting them up or claiming a chorus of approval, it's very important that their voices are heard and understood properly. This thread is not about justifying a high price in a blanket manner; it's gauging the value existing buyers expect to get from what they bought into, and steering things accordingly.

As a programmer, I now clearly see value in an open-source equivalent of the best of breed OmniFocus/Things synthesis, with Spootnik/OPML/etc qualities. Then instead of asking, we could just do it.

[hypotyposis]

Hi all,

I'm pretty much with Curt on all his points, but I'd like to add something.
Lots of people in this thread are discussing requested features whose evidence for "large support" we (users) only get anecdotically through the forums. One of the things I strongly respect about Omni is their use of email requests for tracking feature requests. I don't have access to their database of requests, and therefore I don't know whether there is actually a majority of people requesting, say, tags.
What I do know is that I'm one of those that are not particularly interested in tags. Are we a majority of users? I don't know. Would implementing tags in OF push me away form the app? I'm not sure (depends on the implementation), but it's quite possible. I'm sure OG is considering things like this in their decision-making.
They have been very upfront, however, in their communication on general features of the app and where they're headed. Again regarding tags, I think someone reposted something from Ken saying that they were never part of the original plan.
So this is not to start a flame war or anything, but just to remind folks that the (even numerous) postings on the forums for some feature requests might not actually accurately reflect the thoughts (possibly expressed by emails to Omni) of the larger user base.

And with that, I again second Curt's feature request for an ability to ignore forum threads!

Cheers

[braver]

My point is exactly that ochlocracy, the rule of the mob and mere majority, won't work here. When Alexis de Tocqueville visited the US Senate, which was not elected yet, but rather appointed in a semi-aristocratic manner, he admired such an arrangement, as upholding lofty thoughts and opposing the mob's instinct to level everything.

I submit that the honorable veterans of this forum are in a way the upholders of the lofty thoughts. If we allow Omni to go by the counts in the request database, we'll end up with a nauseatingly bland mashup of half-baked tricks for the naive and the impatient. There's apps galore for such an audience.

A very common request is, "dumb it down, it's too complex." Would you really like it implemented?

The veterans, who over the years had paid repeatedly, deserve their votes counted in a higher tier. Multiply times by money by the number of meaningful discussions with whpalmer4, and make it a vote!

[RiK]

Originally Posted by hypotyposis

What I do know is that I'm one of those that are not particularly interested in tags. Are we a majority of users? I don't know. Would implementing tags in OF push me away form the app? I'm not sure (depends on the implementation), but it's quite possible.

I'm not sure I really get your logic there... If Omni decided to add a feature such as metatags, which it seems quite a few people (myself included) would like to see, then why would the addition of such a feature "push you away" from OF?

I'm quite sure that they wouldn't be forcing you to use it any more than you are forced to use perspectives or flags in the existing version so from your perspective nothing would change so it comes across a little odd that you'd take such a negative stance about it.

[whpalmer4]

Originally Posted by RiK

I'm not sure I really get your logic there... If Omni decided to add a feature such as metatags, which it seems quite a few people (myself included) would like to see, then why would the addition of such a feature "push you away" from OF?

I'm quite sure that they wouldn't be forcing you to use it any more than you are forced to use perspectives or flags in the existing version so from your perspective nothing would change so it comes across a little odd that you'd take such a negative stance about it.

It seems unlikely to me that a tag feature could be put in without some changes to the existing UI if it is going to be well-integrated, agreed? Once you start changing the UI to accommodate the new functionality, whether you use it or not, there's potential to dislike the new additions. There's also the opportunity cost of all that work (not so great, perhaps, if done as part of an overall UI rewrite, but probably not insignificant if done as a standalone change). Perspectives and flags have always been present in released versions, so they don't make quite so compelling an example, in my opinion.

Personally, I'm not too worried that there's going to be a vast effort by the unwashed to stuff the Omni ballot box, or that Omni is going to start pandering to the masses if the expressed desires of the masses conflict with their vision of what they should be building. I don't see evidence that anyone there is just after a quick buck, or content with a quick hack. If they were, they'd still be milking OmniWeb, OmniDazzle, and OmniDiskSweeper, we would have seen OmniOutliner 4 with some sort of crude cloning hack long ago, and there'd be some unsatisfying tag field in OmniFocus already, possibly with some lame "realistic" graphics. One can disagree with individual decisions they make, certainly, but overall, I think they are trying to do right by us and build us a superior product usable both by newcomers and demanding power users.

[tim]

Originally Posted by mhedstrom

I actually do think $40 is a little high, and would've loved to have seen some sort of discount for Desktop and iPhone owners. But whatever, they can price it however they want.

I love Omnifocus, but I'm waiting to see what the reviews are for this one, since if I'm going to spend $40, the app better be absolutely amazing.

I couldn't agree more. I bought the two (Mac and iPhone) because they worked well together but I find it really hard to keep buying software every time you have a new device.

I can accept there should be a cost as the extension to a new device isn't free but to invest in Omni Focus on all your devices gets quite expensive.

Tim