The Omni Group
These forums are now read-only. Please visit our new forums to participate in discussion. A new account will be required to post in the new forums. For more info on the switch, see this post. Thank you!

Go Back   The Omni Group Forums > OmniOutliner > OmniOutliner 3 for Mac
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

 
column removal frustration Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usable Thought View Post
Hmm, you seem bent on telling me I did not experience a problem worth mentioning. I disagree. I hope that is okay with you.
No, I wasn't trying to tell you anything of the sort. You certainly did experience a problem, and you mentioned it. What would be the point of trying to convince you otherwise?
Quote:
Personally, I like OmniOutliner & use it often - but that does not prevent me from (a) getting frustrated at a defect in the design, and (b) pointing it out.

Since it is unlikely a defect this minor can or will be remedied, adding a line or two to the documentation might be a simple way to ease those users who do in fact encounter this glitch, and turn to the help file to see if it's something they're doing wrong.
Well, it's a matter of opinion as to whether or not it is a defect in the design. No data was lost, the program didn't end unexpectedly, and it didn't behave in a fashion other than that intended by its creators. It sounds like what you want it to be is a spreadsheet instead of an outliner which happens to include some features also found in spreadsheets. I agree that there would be no harm in including a sentence in the documentation that clarifies that you cannot delete the outline column.

Did you want to delete the outline column because you had put what might normally go there in a different column and no longer wanted the outline column? I don't know what your final product was intended to be, but if you eliminate the "Topic" heading and adjust the width of the outline column to its narrowest, you essentially hide the outline column from view. However, if you've already populated the outline column in multiple rows, this won't work so well, and removing the text would be less convenient unless you use something like this Applescript:
Code:
tell application "OmniOutliner Professional" -- use "OmniOutliner" if you have that 
	tell front document
		try
			set rowCount to count of rows
			repeat with i from 1 to rowCount
				set text of cell 2 of row i to ""
			end repeat
		on error errormessage number errornumber
			display dialog errormessage buttons {"OK"} default button 1
		end try
	end tell
end tell
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekM View Post
I'm sorry this caused you confusion. The outline column can not be deleted, nor does it make any sense to be able to delete it because that is your "outline."
This may be true from a coding perspective, but it is false from a GUI perspective. Once the functionality for deleting or inserting columns was added to the app, it created the potential for a user wanting to delete the 1st column - and there is nothing in the GUI to indicate visually that this can't be done. Nor does your "logic" that "this is the outline" hold up - such logic needs visual support from the GUI and doesn't have it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekM View Post
Out of curiosity, what were you expecting to happen if you could delete the outline column?
Here's what I was doing. I sometimes use OmniOutliner as a sort of "super text editor" - which by the way is part of your company's sales pitch for it - the main product page for OO even brags that you can use it to "write screenplays," ha ha ha. Well, anyway, I do sometimes find it useful for a few text editing tasks, just as I have used other folding-outline editors previously (e.g. Emacs). If you have a long text document, you can work visually on just a section at a time - very handy. And being able to print only selected sections is also handy.

So what I did in this case was (a) import an RFT text I was working on, thus forming the first column, and then (b) write comments in a column to the right about this original text. When I was done, I wanted to keep only my comments - i.e. keep only the second column & dispose of the first. This proved (apparently) to be impossible to do in any single operation. I could not find a way to select and thus copy the new column's text as a column. Nor could I find a way to delete the original column, even if I moved columns around.

I tried the Utilities drawer and the Inspector - no apparent help there. I then searched the documentation. Nada. Finally I searched the forum - and found the one old complaint about this, in which hoardingbottles was treated as if he did not have a valid issue. This ticked me off.

hoardingbottles had a good idea: find a way to indicate in the Utilities drawer that the left hand column is different. Or like I say, just put a quick line in the help - not to "fix" this relatively minor issue, but simply to admit of its existence. Had I found such a line, my vexation would quickly have subsided; obviously no app can do everything or be perfect in every way.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by whpalmer4 View Post
However, if you've already populated the outline column in multiple rows, this won't work so well, and removing the text would be less convenient unless you use something like this Applescript
I might give that script a try next time this situation comes up - would be a good workaround. Thanks.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usable Thought View Post
This may be true from a coding perspective, but it is false from a GUI perspective. Once the functionality for deleting or inserting columns was added to the app, it created the potential for a user wanting to delete the 1st column - and there is nothing in the GUI to indicate visually that this can't be done. Nor does your "logic" that "this is the outline" hold up - such logic needs visual support from the GUI and doesn't have it.
Do you have any suggestions for a UI indication? All UI methods of deleting a column are disabled when you select the outline column, these would be the Reorganize -> Remove Column and the Remove Column toolbar button if you add it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Usable Thought View Post
I tried the Utilities drawer and the Inspector - no apparent help there. I then searched the documentation. Nada. Finally I searched the forum - and found the one old complaint about this, in which hoardingbottles was treated as if he did not have a valid issue. This ticked me off.

hoardingbottles had a good idea: find a way to indicate in the Utilities drawer that the left hand column is different. Or like I say, just put a quick line in the help - not to "fix" this relatively minor issue, but simply to admit of its existence. Had I found such a line, my vexation would quickly have subsided; obviously no app can do everything or be perfect in every way.
You can not remove, add, or reorder columns in the utility drawer. The style palette in the utility drawer is for managing styles so it's not necessarily the best place to put such an indicator. But, if you have any specific suggestion I'll be happy to enter a request for this so we consider this for OO4's interface. And if not, I can make a note of it anyways.

I did not mention this last time, but unfortunately it's not as easy as it seems to update the help file. Any change to the help file, the same goes for UI changes, needs to be localized for all the languages we offer. So any change needs to be strongly considered if it's not coming along with a major release that requires localizing. If you think it would help, I can add this to the online FAQ. Just let me know.

Thanks!
 
 


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Top & Bottom Margin Frustration denrael OmniGraffle for iPad 0 2011-07-14 06:49 PM
Frustration: Export Woes steve OmniFocus 1 for Mac 15 2011-05-07 02:23 PM
Removal of Flash Cookies PhilMac OmniWeb Feature Requests 0 2009-09-18 06:29 PM
Displaying image frustration bethkatz17582 OmniWeb Bug Reports 0 2006-04-07 09:07 AM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.