[SpiralOcean]

Originally Posted by whpalmer4

The OF implementation of "stalled" seems to match what I see in the dictionary -- a project on which you cannot currently do anything to advance it toward completion.

Where did you find the definition?
According to this definition, if you have a project with one action, and the action is an agenda to speak to Frank about something, and you were nowhere near Frank, then the project should be listed as stalled because you cannot currently do anything to advance it toward completion.

I think a better definition of a stalled project is something like:
a project on which there are no actions defined to advance it toward completion.

Originally Posted by whpalmer4

Are you using the stalled filter in context mode or project mode? I only use it in project mode, when reviewing, and there it seems appropriate to show actions where I can do nothing. For actual execution of actions, it seems rather irrelevant!

Agreed. I use it in project mode.

[SpiralOcean]

Originally Posted by whpalmer4

But you've got good scripting skills, and it seems like a script that fixed your project start dates to match the start date of the first action wouldn't be too much of a challenge, and would allow you to use the rest of the tools the way you want, no?

Thank you for the compliment.
I could create a script. Currently, I use Curt's script for stalled projects, and then search for all projects tagged Missing NA. It's a terrific workaround.

Just checking back in with the forum to see if anything has changed with OF that I wasn't aware of. :)

Thank you for the help and assistance.

[whpalmer4]

Originally Posted by SpiralOcean

Where did you find the definition?

From the dictionary included with Leopard:

According to this definition, if you have a project with one action, and the action is an agenda to speak to Frank about something, and you were nowhere near Frank, then the project should be listed as stalled because you cannot currently do anything to advance it toward completion.

Well, no. The project isn't stalled, because you can go speak to Frank and move it forward. However, if that action was to install a widget that won't be manufactured until next week, there isn't anything you can do to move it forward.

I think a better definition of a stalled project is something like:
a project on which there are no actions defined to advance it toward completion.

We might have to agree to disagree here. I don't see how defining an action that I can't do until next week makes the project any less stalled than if I hadn't defined any actions. If the engine quits, your car is stalled whether or not you know where you want to drive next :-) However, maybe you can drum up enough enthusiasm to get Omni to provide an option for your definition.

[SpiralOcean]

Originally Posted by whpalmer4

We might have to agree to disagree here. I don't see how defining an action that I can't do until next week makes the project any less stalled than if I hadn't defined any actions. If the engine quits, your car is stalled whether or not you know where you want to drive next :-) However, maybe you can drum up enough enthusiasm to get Omni to provide an option for your definition.

Agreed. :)

To use your car example:
if the engine quits, the car is stalled because you need to fix it.
If the engine is not running, it may be waiting for you to start it.

To further this example. When on a road trip, there are times when you stop the car for breaks and the car is not moving forward, but the road trip is not stalled.

As opposed to the car breaking down and the road trip cannot continue until the car is fixed.

If I have one action in a project, and the next action is to meet frank to brainstorm ideas for the project and the action starts next week. Then the project is not stalled. I'm moving forward with the project at some point in the future.

However, if there are no actions for the project, then I'm not going to do anything to move the project toward completion.

It's odd that something like this:

(project) fix squeaking belt in car
-(action) take car in to repair shop (next week)

looks the same to you as this
(project) fix squeaking belt in car

You are saying that both of those projects are stalled? Interesting. Agreed to disagree. It's interesting to see how clear each of our opinions in our own heads are, and how baffling they are to the other person. Wars have been fought over for less than this. :)

[whpalmer4]

Originally Posted by SpiralOcean

Agreed. :)

To use your car example:
if the engine quits, the car is stalled because you need to fix it.
If the engine is not running, it may be waiting for you to start it.

The engine quits while I'm crossing some train tracks. The warning bell for the crossing starts clanging, and I see the express train down the tracks, rapidly approaching. I've got an appointment to take my car in for service next already on the calendar. Is my car stalled or not, answer quickly, please? :-)

To further this example. When on a road trip, there are times when you stop the car for breaks and the car is not moving forward, but the road trip is not stalled.

And the difference is that the road trip could continue if I chose to get in the car and drive (or work on that next action). When the car breaks down, that isn't an option.

It's odd that something like this:

(project) fix squeaking belt in car
-(action) take car in to repair shop (next week)

looks the same to you as this
(project) fix squeaking belt in car

You are saying that both of those projects are stalled? Interesting. Agreed to disagree. It's interesting to see how clear each of our opinions in our own heads are, and how baffling they are to the other person. Wars have been fought over for less than this. :)

I'm not the only one saying it, OmniFocus and by implication, its creators are saying it also.

To be honest, I think a reasonable case could be made for either choice were we sitting in a meeting doing a design review for a proposed "add Stalled filter to OmniFocus" project. However, there already is a Stalled filter, and it isn't clear to me it makes sense to reverse the previous choice at this point, especially when your workflow could be readily adapted to the current behavior, but accommodating users who want the current behavior with your preferred behavior would be rather difficult. If it has to be one or the other, I think the current choice is the right one. If you persuade them to add an option (which seems upon brief consideration likely to have minimal potential for collateral damage), I would be happy for you, but probably wouldn't use it :-)

[SpiralOcean]

Here's a concrete example of a project with a future action that is not stalled.

Yard is maintained
-mow grass start - July 5th, 2009 (repeats 1 time a week with a start date)

When I complete this action the project looks like this
Yard is maintained
-mow grass start - July 12th, 2009

This project is not stalled. I completed the action today. And the next action for this project starts next week.

[SpiralOcean]

Here's another odd observation about a stalled project.

A project created by itself, with no next action, shows up in the active projects and in the stalled projects.

How can a project be both active and stalled?

[SpiralOcean]

I project that has an action with a future start date should show up in the pending and not stalled project filter.

Yard is maintained
-mow grass start - July 12th, 2009

This project is pending but not stalled. And yet it shows up in the Active project filter, the stalled project filter, but not in the pending project filter.

[whpalmer4]

Originally Posted by SpiralOcean

I project that has an action with a future start date should show up in the pending and not stalled project filter.

Yard is maintained
-mow grass start - July 12th, 2009

This project is pending but not stalled. And yet it shows up in the Active project filter, the stalled project filter, but not in the pending project filter.

No, the project isn't pending, the project's next action is. The project is pending only if the project has a future start date.

The project is not on hold, it is not pending, and it is not dropped or completed, so it shows up on the active list. It has no available next action, so it also shows up on the stalled list. It is not pending, so it does not show up on the pending list.

[whpalmer4]

Originally Posted by SpiralOcean

How can a project be both active and stalled?

Active projects are what are left after you eliminate on hold, pending, dropped, and completed projects from the set of all projects. Stalled projects are a special class of active projects, just as a square is a special class of a rectangle.