[DamonC]

Originally Posted by MEP

That's what OF does by design. It keeps your list of actions, projects and contexts and cross-references them for you (by way of relational database). I wasn't trying to describe any unique process on my part, just stating in a roundabout way that I use OF for the task OF was designed for.

Thanks for clarifying that.

Originally Posted by MEP

I can understand your point about the multiple documents and syncing them up between machines. I can see how having a list-like feature in OF would be helpful in that situation, but I'm not sure how to incorporate that feature into OF in any way that wouldn't clutter up the interface, thereby reducing the utility of OF's primary features.

I'm not sure I can think of a way that this could work and I don't want to ask for something that could reduce OF's ease of use. This is one of the major benefits over other GTD apps as they seem overburdened with features or making you do things in a very linear fashion.

Originally Posted by MEP

If it were me, I'd keep copies of my lists (from whatever application I decided to use for my lists) on a USB key drive (automatically synced with Chronosync or some hacked up open-source-based solution of my own) and just take that with me to each machine. Such lists would probably be really small and would easily fit on a USB key (or the spare space on my iPod or my Palm (which might actually be able to read those lists if I saved them in the right format)). Obviously, that's not exactly ideal for every user.

I've been thinking of using Chronosync for a number of other items in my workflow. Do you use it? If so, what do you think of it?

Originally Posted by MEP

Maybe it would be worth thinking of ways to include some kind of basic list-making feature in OF, but it would have to really well-thought out, and probably not something tacked onto the 1.0 release. Such a feature would likely require a third view (in addition to Planning and Context view) and could easily clutter up the interface so I'm not really sure it would be all that great an idea. The more I think about it really, the less I like the idea, but who knows what the Omni folks will think.

At the very least, such feature would be related to the primary function of OF, as list making is an integral part of GTD.

It's an idea, as brianogilvie says OO is great for this though. I like his idea of integrating the lists outside of OF into the reviews. I hadn't thought much about that before.

[curt.clifton]

Originally Posted by DamonC

I've been thinking of using Chronosync for a number of other items in my workflow. Do you use it? If so, what do you think of it?

I use Chronosync to keep my Macbook Pro synchronized with my PowerMac at the office. (I mount the MBP in target disk mode on the PowerMac to do this.) I also use Chronosync to synchronize the iPhoto album on my MBP with the one on my wife's iMac at home. It's a powerful application, which means that it has a fairly significant learning curve. But Econ does a great job with their manual and with posting examples of how to use it.

Originally Posted by DamonC

It's an idea, as brianogilvie says OO is great for this though. I like his idea of integrating the lists outside of OF into the reviews. I hadn't thought much about that before.

I also use OO for checklists and more free-form planning. Example OO lists that I'm using regularly include Morning Review, Evening Review, Weekly Review, Monthly Review, Monthly Goals, Bi-annual Review, and One and Five Year Goals. If I have something that I want to bring in to OmniFocus from OO, I use my Send to OmniFocus script.

[DamonC]

Thanks Curt. I've tested your send to OF script and it works well. I tried to send an item with an attached URL but the URL didn't come over to OF. Does the AppleScript dictionary of OF not allow this yet?

[petro]

Originally Posted by DamonC

I've been using OmniOutliner for GTD in the past and I had a section for Someday / Maybe and kept lists in there. I had a list for Reading/Research which would contain books to read and web pages to read. OO can store clickable URLs that would open Safari. I don't seem to be able to do this in OF, although the text of the URL can be stored, but then I have to copy and paste this into Safari. Purchases consists of 2 lists - Definite Purchases and Possible Purchases. Items to buy online would contain the URL to the page, and other items would just be listed.

I'd like to keep these lists in OF but will lose the functionality I had with OO. How are you managing these types of lists or are you keeping them outside of OF? I don't want to have to use to separate lists for things like this. Am I missing something? If not, will URLs be actionable from within OF in 1.0?

So I think I'm learning quickly that many people in the forums were previous OO users, or kGTD users, and have learned to accept various shortcomings of those tools for productivity / tasks management. I don't want to have to use OmniOutliner or a journaling program to organize my to do list, my projects, my goals in life, and someday/maybe items like DamonC mentions. I am hoping that the goal of OF will be to get over those shortcomings, and build an app that can provide "Personal productivity and peace of mind". ;)

DamonC, what about creating a context called "Someday", and making the context inactive by right-clicking on it? That way you can filter out all items. I'd also put them in a separate project hierarchy as well, and make those task lists "On Hold". Although it would be great to have another state that "On Hold" so you could specifically filter on them, like "Someday". That's what I was doing with other programs.

Would it be possible to have user-defined states? What would be the harm in that? Would that be a solution to what you're trying to do?

[curt.clifton]

Originally Posted by DamonC

Thanks Curt. I've tested your send to OF script and it works well. I tried to send an item with an attached URL but the URL didn't come over to OF. Does the AppleScript dictionary of OF not allow this yet?

Script access to attachments in OmniOutliner is not straightforward. It doesn't appear that script access to attachments is possible yet in OmniFocus, though I haven't investigated thoroughly.

[DamonC]

petro:

I guess this makes some sense to me. I'll need to think about it for a while to properly digest what you are saying.

One question, the earlier discussions in this thread were to do with films to see, books to read lists. Are you saying that you would want to keep these types of lists in OF too? If so, I'm interested in your perspective of doing this rather than keeping them outside of OF.

[brianogilvie]

Originally Posted by petro

So I think I'm learning quickly that many people in the forums were previous OO users, or kGTD users, and have learned to accept various shortcomings of those tools for productivity / tasks management. I don't want to have to use OmniOutliner or a journaling program to organize my to do list, my projects, my goals in life, and someday/maybe items like DamonC mentions. I am hoping that the goal of OF will be to get over those shortcomings, and build an app that can provide "Personal productivity and peace of mind". ;)

I would phrase things another way: I prefer my tools to be lean. They should do one or a few things well, not several things badly. I don't see this as a shortcoming but as a strength. (Back in the day, mh was my preferred Unix email tool; it was not a single email program but rather a set of small programs for doing different things to email.) There's always Entourage for those who want the all-in-one email/calendar/task list/notebook application.

For managing projects and actions, OmniFocus is my tool of choice. For managing my calendar, iCal or Google Calendar. For keeping lists, OmniOutliner. For keeping research notes, DevonThink. For keeping other notes, Journler. For finding all this stuff, Spotlight or Spotlaser (except for DevonThink, to which Spotlight integration will be coming soon).

As it stands now, OmniFocus does a fine job, even in alpha, of managing context-based action lists, project lists, and someday/maybe lists. With folders, it can handle goals in life. I'd hate to see the release delayed by adding features for keeping project info and reference files that other applications handle much better. I'd also hate to see the GTD-specific features swamped in an attempt to make the application all things to all people, just as I hated seeing what happened to Microsoft Word after version 4. The current support for linking to external files, prettied up a bit, would suit me much better.

[petro]

Originally Posted by DamonC

petro:

I guess this makes some sense to me. I'll need to think about it for a while to properly digest what you are saying.

One question, the earlier discussions in this thread were to do with films to see, books to read lists. Are you saying that you would want to keep these types of lists in OF too? If so, I'm interested in your perspective of doing this rather than keeping them outside of OF.

I have a very simple approach here for these types of lists. Maybe too simple for your needs, but it works for me.

I've got a project called "Personal Wish List". Inside of it I have separate actions for books I want to read, music I want to listen to, etc. In the comments of each action is just a text list. Then I mark the entire project as "On Hold" so the actions are hidden from my listings. It works for me for now.

You could go one step further and create a custom context and easily view all the actions related to a context. This isn't very "GTD", but it works great. And it gets around the lack of custom "states" for now.

[petro]

Originally Posted by brianogilvie

I would phrase things another way: I prefer my tools to be lean. They should do one or a few things well, not several things badly. I don't see this as a shortcoming but as a strength. (Back in the day, mh was my preferred Unix email tool; it was not a single email program but rather a set of small programs for doing different things to email.) There's always Entourage for those who want the all-in-one email/calendar/task list/notebook application.

For managing projects and actions, OmniFocus is my tool of choice. For managing my calendar, iCal or Google Calendar. For keeping lists, OmniOutliner. For keeping research notes, DevonThink. For keeping other notes, Journler. For finding all this stuff, Spotlight or Spotlaser (except for DevonThink, to which Spotlight integration will be coming soon).

As it stands now, OmniFocus does a fine job, even in alpha, of managing context-based action lists, project lists, and someday/maybe lists. With folders, it can handle goals in life. I'd hate to see the release delayed by adding features for keeping project info and reference files that other applications handle much better. I'd also hate to see the GTD-specific features swamped in an attempt to make the application all things to all people, just as I hated seeing what happened to Microsoft Word after version 4. The current support for linking to external files, prettied up a bit, would suit me much better.

I agree about having the app be lean and mean. I personally don't care about attachments, and URL linking isn't a must-have feature for me. I want task / project management. OF in it's current form is *almost* everything I need. Seems the only 2 things I find lacking are setting priority on folders, projects and actions, as well as custom states could be useful. With those features I could have what I want, and for the GTD purists, they could just not use those features. Then I could have "one app to rule them all!" ;)

I think I've blathered on enough about what I want... I've made my point and I'll move on. Thanks for all the feedback. This has been most useful for me to learn the ins and outs of OF.

[MEP]

Originally Posted by DamonC

I've been thinking of using Chronosync for a number of other items in my workflow. Do you use it? If so, what do you think of it?

I've used Chronosync for a lot of things (including keeping my old KGTD action list synced up on my iPod in Notes HTML format) and I like the app a lot. I wouldn't use it for actual backup and recovery (no metadata support the last time I checked), but for synchronizing files across computers, network connections and external storage devices it's really great. I was initially surprised by how well it keeps files on my USB stick in sync without any user-intervention. There's a bit of a learning curve getting it to work perfectly, but it's worth it if you have a lot of things you need to carry around from machine to machine (unless you have the yearning to hack up a solution of your own and save $30). I suggest downloading the trial and giving it a whirl.