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Any chance of getting a side panel instead of an inspector window? Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
I think that's a mockup of what it might look like if the thread starter's suggestion were taken up.
 
Ah, no. This is on a 15 inch MacBook screen, so to make the most of the main window I'd have it full screen if I could. BUT, to accommodate the inspector without having it appear over the top of the main window (with the resultant need to move it about all the time), I have to give it space to the right of the main window.

So although it reduces in height depending on the info in it, all that does is reveal what's behind it. The wasted space is created by the width, not the height.

Here's a full screen shot, with only my desktop behind OF, to better illustrate the point:



If you close the inspector, how do you edit fields that only appear in it?

Mark

Last edited by MacBerry; 2008-08-14 at 05:58 AM..
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBerry View Post
If you close the inspector, how do you edit fields that only appear in it?
I click the inspector button in the tool bar, edit the fields, and close the inspector. But practically speaking, I almost never need to edit the fields in the inspector. The only things I regularly edit using the inspector are review intervals, which I update during my monthly system review, and repeat intervals, which I only edit when setting up a new repeating task/project. Everything else (apart from default context for projects) is available in the main interface with the appropriate columns turned on or by right-clicking.

I have a long standing request for an icon in the main view, akin to the parallel/sequential indicator and flags, that indicates repeating projects/actions. Clicking it would bring up a small pop-up for changing those settings.

I don't mind going to the inspector for setting review frequencies or for mass operations on multiple items. (It seems like mass operations would be harder to do with an in-line display of data.)
__________________
Cheers,

Curt
 
I don't do mass changes, and I could be wrong but I doubt many people do. Perhaps you could give an example of what you mean? If it's mass changes like changing context, that can be done with multi-select>drag.

Context view doesn't have columns of course, so without the inspector you can't change the start date for example. I don't often, but I think many people do.

Mark
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBerry View Post
Ah, no. This is on a 15 inch MacBook screen, so to make the most of the main window I'd have it full screen if I could. BUT, to accommodate the inspector without having it appear over the top of the main window (with the resultant need to move it about all the time), I have to give it space to the right of the main window.

So although it reduces in height depending on the info in it, all that does is reveal what's behind it. The wasted space is created by the width, not the height.
Hmm, I don't agree with that assertion. The space below the inspector and to the right of your main window is not wasted, even on a small screen (I'm on a 15-inch MBP too). The fact that I can see my desktop and the icons through that relatively small opening is very handy, particularly for dragging files into note fields. It also gives me easy access to other windows behind my OmniFocus window (yes, I know there are other ways to access those windows, but having more paths to my goal almost always makes things easier).

And you don't need to move the inspector window around all the time. Just toggle it with the handy key shortcut (Command-Shift-I). In that respect, it functions very similarly to the inline info approach you mentioned earlier, except that the inspector can operate on multiple records at once and allows you to see more info than could be shown inline without pushing the rest of your contents down and offscreen.

I don't mean to imply that inline info is bad. It'd be nice to have as much as possible inline. Cultured Code's Things does that pretty well. But that additional info should be completely collapsible because it can waste a lot of space by displaying too much detail. I'm not interested in seeing those bits of data most of the time, which is one of the reasons I think the Things interface feels clunky. I really don't like to have the rest of my content moved around or pushed offscreen by the huge amount of space the selected action consumes. Incidentally, a right-hand drawer/sidebar also suffers from the drawback of reducing space in the main content area (relative to the size of the main window) and even shifts content around if the drawer/sidebar is toggled when your main window is set to full screen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBerry View Post
I don't do mass changes, and I could be wrong but I doubt many people do.
It's the ability to perform an operation on multiple records simultaneously that makes the inspector particularly useful, I think. Perhaps you don't use this capability much, but I do, and I suspect there are others. It's very useful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by curt.clifton View Post
I click the inspector button in the tool bar, edit the fields, and close the inspector. But practically speaking, I almost never need to edit the fields in the inspector.
I work exactly the same way as Curt: open inspector, make my changes, close inspector. The fact that I don't need to access it very often is what keeps that routine from getting tedious.

I think all of the proposed solutions have their pros and cons. But, IMHO, the inspector windows is still the best (least troublesome?) approach, despite its drawbacks.

-Dennis

Last edited by Toadling; 2008-08-14 at 08:17 AM..
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBerry View Post
Context view doesn't have columns of course, so without the inspector you can't change the start date for example. I don't often, but I think many people do.
Why not just turn those columns on in Context mode?

-Dennis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toadling View Post
Hmm, I don't agree with that assertion. The space below the inspector and to the right of your main window is not wasted, even on a small screen (I'm on a 15-inch MBP too). The fact that I can see my desktop and the icons through that relatively small opening is very handy, particularly for dragging files into note fields. It also gives me easy access to other windows behind my OmniFocus window (yes, I know there are other ways to access those windows, but having more paths to my goal almost always makes things easier).
You're serious aren't you?! Wow, I know people work differently, but the idea of having a big hole in an apps interface just so you can see something behind it is completely alien to me! I can't see how it's useful except on the very rare occasions when what you want happens to be lined up with that hole.

I do what you describe useing Expose - mouse to top right to expose the WHOLE desktop, grab what you want, mouse to top right to re-hide the desktop, drop. If I want something from finder, it's the same except I mouse to bottom right, or hover over the finder icon if a window isn't already open. I can't believe what you want is below that 60 x 150mm (max) hole very often!

What I think you may be saying is that you don't like to work full screen anyway, so therefore you have room for the inspector. That's fine, especially if you're used to a 9" screen as you mentioned before, but I've come the other way (20" screen minimum before getting my MacBook Pro), and find full width the minimum.

Not to mention the fact that I find having other windows visible behind what I'm working on a destraction - this is OmniFocus we're talking about after all ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toadling View Post
And you don't need to move the inspector window around all the time. Just toggle it with the handy key shortcut (Command-Shift-I).
But it's NOT handy! the desired location for the inspector to edit one item is not the same as for editing another, hence the need to move it all the time, and the last thing I want to do is invoke inspector, possibly move it to see what I'm working on, edit, hide or move inspector to see what I want next, select next item, invoke inspector, move it again! The only safe place for the inspector, the only place it's guaranteed not to cover something I want to see, is outside the main window, but that means reducing the size of that window unacceptably to make room for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toadling View Post
In that respect, it functions very similarly to the inline info approach you mentioned earlier,...
Except for the key difference of an extra manual step that I don't want to be bothered with. Yes it's only one step, but it all adds up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toadling View Post
..... except that the inspector can operate on multiple records at once and allows you to see more info than could be shown inline without pushing the rest of your contents down and offscreen.
Properly implemented, inline detail would colapse the moment you selected more than one item. I'm not arguing for taking the inspector out, so you could still have it for editing multiple items, just for giving us a more useable alternative for single item editing and viewing. We already have inline, it's just that it only shows limited info and isn't automatic.

One of my biggest issues with the current design is that it's neither one thing nor the other. We have both inline and inspector, and can edit and view some but not all things in both. It's totally inconsistent. All that's needed is for them to put all info in both, and make inline auto-collapse/expand (auto could even be an option if preferred).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toadling View Post
I don't mean to imply that inline info is bad. It'd be nice to have as much as possible inline. Cultured Code's Things does that pretty well. But that additional info should be completely collapsible because it can waste a lot of space by displaying too much detail. I'm not interested in seeing those bits of data most of the time, which is one of the reasons I think the Things interface feels clunky. I really don't like to have the rest of my content moved around or pushed offscreen by the huge amount of space the selected action consumes.
So, you'd turn auto expand/collapse off, and I'd turn it on. You'd continue to edit in the inspector, and I never would, and really there'd be no need for this debate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toadling View Post
Incidentally, a right-hand drawer/sidebar also suffers from the drawback of reducing space in the main content area (relative to the size of the main window) and even shifts content around if the drawer/sidebar is toggled when your main window is set to full screen.
Exactly. That's what I meant when I said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by me
Drawers suffer the same problem, though they can show and hide automatically. However, that involves re-sizing the entire window dynamically unless you have spare room anyway.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toadling View Post
Why not just turn those columns on in Context mode
Actually you're right - I didn't realise I could do that in context view because they don't actually appear as columns with a header row. But of course the more I turn on, the more validity my argument for being able to work full width has ;)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBerry View Post
Actually you're right - I didn't realise I could do that in context view because they don't actually appear as columns with a header row. But of course the more I turn on, the more validity my argument for being able to work full width has ;)
Alternatively, the more columns you turn on, the less often you need the inspector, and thus the "put up the inspector only when you need it" argument gains strength...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by whpalmer4 View Post
Alternatively, the more columns you turn on, the less often you need the inspector, and thus the "put up the inspector only when you need it" argument gains strength...
That's only fully true if ALL info is available inline, and it isn't. Yes it's true that the more I see inline, the less I need the inspector for, but taking that argument all the way, why not have everything available inline, so I never have to use the inspector? People could choose what's there using the columns menu like now, so maybe all I'm saying is "why is the columns menu limited to certain info?". Likewise, why not have everything (dare I say notes?) available in the inspector for those that don't like inline.

As it is, Omni are trying to second guess which info I need to see inline, and which I need in the inspector, and obviously they're bound to guess wrong for a proportion of people.

Last edited by MacBerry; 2008-08-14 at 09:32 AM..
 
 


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