[Toadling]

Originally Posted by MacBerry

I can't see how it's useful except on the very rare occasions when what you want happens to be lined up with that hole.

Well, things are lined up with that hole because I intentionally put them there knowing that I'll be able to easily access them without having to invoke Exposé to see the entire desktop. After all, as you mentioned, every little step adds up. :)

Originally Posted by MacBerry

Wow, I know people work differently, but the idea of having a big hole in an apps interface just so you can see something behind it is completely alien to me!

and

Originally Posted by MacBerry

What I think you may be saying is that you don't like to work full screen anyway, so therefore you have room for the inspector. That's fine, especially if you're used to a 9" screen as you mentioned before, but I've come the other way (20" screen minimum before getting my MacBook Pro), and find full width the minimum.

Yes, that's really the gist of it: I don't like to work full screen, never have really. I know the full screen approach is popular in Windows, but coming from a background of some 22 years on the Mac, I'm a diehard multi-window user. To me, that's the whole point of having a windowed interface with many, special-purpose apps and windows all doing their own thing at the same time.

Admittedly, I do occaisionally go full screen. Apps like iCal, iPhoto, and Logic Pro all eat up screen space to no end and love to fill up my display. Sometimes I get soft and just let them have it their way, sort of like allowing my kids to eat that extra cookie. :)

Originally Posted by MacBerry

That's fine, especially if you're used to a 9" screen as you mentioned before, but I've come the other way (20" screen minimum before getting my MacBook Pro), and find full width the minimum.

I remember seeing someone mention a 9-inch screen too, but it wasn't me. I guess my original Mac Plus had a 9-inch screen back in 1986, but I've long since upgraded. Wow, 512 x 342 pixels used to seem like a lot and now we have icons larger than that! :D

More recently, I've worked on a 20-inch Cinema Display, a hi-res 17-inch MacBook Pro, and my current 15-inch MacBook Pro. The temptation to go full screen on the 15-inch MBP is greater than on those other screens, but I still prefer to have multiple windows visible at once.

Originally Posted by MacBerry

Not to mention the fact that I find having other windows visible behind what I'm working on a destraction

That's never really been an issue for me. I guess it's a matter of what you're used to.

Originally Posted by MacBerry

The only safe place for the inspector, the only place it's guaranteed not to cover something I want to see, is outside the main window, but that means reducing the size of that window unacceptably to make room for it.

Yeah, I don't mind having the inspector on top and toggling it on and off, but I can see your point. But I also don't have all the columns displayed in every perspective in OmniFocus, so I don't really need the window to be as wide as some like it. For example, I only show the the Due column in my "Due Soon" perspective but not in my other perspectives.

Originally Posted by MacBerry

I'm not arguing for taking the inspector out, so you could still have it for editing multiple items, just for giving us a more useable alternative for single item editing and viewing...All that's needed is for them to put all info in both, and make inline auto-collapse/expand (auto could even be an option if preferred).

OK, I could live with that. It seems like we could then have the best of both worlds. There's maybe a small increase in complexity, but it doesn't seem like that would be too much.

Ken mentioned a UI overhaul coming up in the not-too-distant future. I wonder if something like your proposal might come under consideration.

-Dennis

[curt.clifton]

Originally Posted by MacBerry

I don't do mass changes, and I could be wrong but I doubt many people do. Perhaps you could give an example of what you mean? If it's mass changes like changing context, that can be done with multi-select>drag.

I don't think you can mass change due dates without the inspector. One might want to do that to pull up due dates that fall during a vacation, for example.

[MacBerry]

Originally Posted by Toadling

Well, things are lined up with that hole because I intentionally put them there knowing that I'll be able to easily access them without having to invoke Exposé to see the entire desktop. After all, as you mentioned, every little step adds up. :)

OoohKaaay, sooo, we're saying that positioning all the files you may need below a tiny little window, is less work than invoking expose or switching to the desktop/another app some other way? Hmmm ;)

Joking really, as each to their own, but I'm guessing you may be a little unique in that one!

[curt.clifton]

Originally Posted by MacBerry

Actually you're right - I didn't realise I could do that in context view because they don't actually appear as columns with a header row.

You can also turn on the View Bar in context mode, which (somewhat bizarrely) includes the column headings.

[MacBerry]

Originally Posted by curt.clifton

You can also turn on the View Bar in context mode, which (somewhat bizarrely) includes the column headings.

Yes I saw that after you got me playing with it. But one reason for having perspectives (AKA saved views) is so I can turn the view bar off. You're right it's odd that that should also turn off the colomb headers.

[Toadling]

Originally Posted by MacBerry

OoohKaaay, sooo, we're saying that positioning all the files you may need below a tiny little window, is less work than invoking expose or switching to the desktop/another app some other way?

Well, when you put it that way, it does sound like a pain. But I'm not talking about bunches of files here. Maybe I'm working with a folder or OmniOutliner file; rather than positioning it at the upper right corner of my desktop, I might leave it halfway down or at the bottom right corner of the desktop. Not a big deal. And, I *do* use Exposé too, just not always. :)

Plus, remember I typically keep my inspector window closed, so I can see the whole right-hand side of my desktop, from top to bottom - plenty of room for at least one column of icons. So the situation you bring up only occurs if I have desktop icons I want to access and I need the inspector at the same time - an uncommon scenario.

Besides, access to desktop icons is just one reason. I also like to have easy access to whatever window(s) I might have behind OmniFocus. Sure, I can reach them with Exposé, and frequently do, but sometimes it's easier to just click directly on one of the several windows peaking out on the right side. I basically only resort to Exposé when I have to. I personally find things quicker and easier that way.

But, like you say, everyone has their own way of working. In fact, there seems to be a current trend (fad?) towards single-window layouts again, despite long-time resistance to the idea in the Mac UI. So clearly not everyone feels the way I do.

I miss the extra flexibility though. And I'll bemoan the seeming disinterest in all of the research and effort expended in the early days of the Mac OS that originally moved us away from the single-window/single-task paradigm and introduced us to the (then) new and exciting concept of multi-window GUIs and the mouse. :)

-Dennis

[BevvyB]

Well I want drawers

The main reason? If you're using Expose and Spaces a lot like I do having the main Omnifocus list detach from the inspectors is a complete pain in the arse

Everytime I want to move Omnifocus to another Space the inspectors don't come with it, and every time I use Expose the inspectors zoom off on their own and it would be much nicer if they stayed 'glued' to the main window

Also, you resize Omnifocus and the inspectors don't follow, get lost underneath, I'm fed up moving these things around

Please please please give us an option for drawers, don't care what anyone says but personally I want them - not having them is one of the few things that bugs me about the software!

[Toadling]

Originally Posted by BevvyB

If you're using Expose and Spaces a lot like I do having the main Omnifocus list detach from the inspectors is a complete pain in the arse

Everytime I want to move Omnifocus to another Space the inspectors don't come with it, and every time I use Expose the inspectors zoom off on their own and it would be much nicer if they stayed 'glued' to the main window.

On my system, the inspector window follows the main window when I move it from space to space. I've tried moving OmniFocus between spaces in every way I can think of (drag it to the edge of the screen, invoke Spaces and drag between desktops, click and hold the OmniFocus title bar while switching spaces, etc.) and all of them seem to bring the inspector along just fine. Am I misunderstanding? Because this doesn't really seem like a problem.

As for Exposé, I think the standard behavior is for palette windows to simply fade out and not be displayed when you "zoom out" with Exposé. That's exactly what I see with OmniFocus, and that's pretty much what I would expect based on what other apps do, including Apple's. In fact, I think it is Apple that determines the Exposé behavior of the "alway-on-top" palettes, not the Omni Group. So I'm not sure there's much that can be done here. But from my perspective, this is not really an issue. There's no point in displaying the inspector in Exposé because that window is of no value without the main window. You'd never want to switch to just the inspector window.

Originally Posted by BevvyB

Also, you resize Omnifocus and the inspectors don't follow, get lost underneath, I'm fed up moving these things around

I'm beginning to think were talking about two different things. The inspector window is *alway-on-top*, so it cannot get lost underneath any OmniFocus window. Granted, it might be nice if it could stick to the edge of other OmniFocus windows so that if the main window were resized, the inspector would follow, but personally I haven't had any problems loosing my inspector window.

Are you perhaps referring to the Perspectives window (which isn't an alway-on-top palette)? But that's really a separate issue and not what we've been discussing here.

-Dennis

[curt.clifton]

Originally Posted by MacBerry

Yes I saw that after you got me playing with it. But one reason for having perspectives (AKA saved views) is so I can turn the view bar off. You're right it's odd that that should also turn off the colomb headers.

The viewed columns are saved with the perspective. So once you have the columns you want, you can hide the view bar again, then take a snapshot of the perspective.

[jfisher]

What about a mini-inspector bar? like what recently showed up in OG5?